Bud Norris to Latinos: respect the game
- Thread starter soxhop411
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rembrat said:
What does put a bit of a pin in the it's-a-racial-thing balloon is Ramirez got an earful later in the game from Eddie Rosario when Rosario was circling the bases after hitting one out in the 9th. Latin on Latin "crime", as it were.
All it is bruised egos and the failure to recognize the difference between celebrating and taunting. Ramirez was celebrating, but he wasn't taunting. He didn't look at Nolasco or the Twins dugout or gesture or even say a word. He watched his HR, flipped his bat and ran the bases. If you don't want him to do that, you a) don't walk the hitter in front of him with two outs in the 8th when you're down by 6 runs (Kipnis is a better hitter, but how infinitesimal is the increase in odds of gettng the third out by doing that?), and b) don't give him a pitch to hit that well.
Fuck the Twins.
God, I hate the hypocrisy in baseball. One team's celebration is another team's "disrespect the game." When team A celebrates it's just celebrating but when team B does the same thing to team A it's "showing them up." Bunch of fucking babies, the lot of them. I want more fist pumps, more bat flips, more holding an imaginary parrot on your arm in your home run trot. Maybe the game would be more exciting to a younger generation if players were allowed to show a little enthusiasm without pissing off the old guard and getting drilled in the head.
I've always wondered why people get all bent out of shape over a hitter taking an extra millisecond to admire his work as being "disrespectful" or "showing them up" but never once has anyone ever taken exception to a decidedly over-the-top walk-off celebration. Seems like it's become commonplace for a walk-off of any variety to be grounds for a celebration that is only a lack of champagne spraying away from being indistinguishable from a post-season clinch celebration.
I've got no problem with any kind of celebration as long as it doesn't get overtly personal or taunting. Joy is joy, after all. But I've always found it funny that while the Bud Norris/Paul Molitor types get upset with some types of celebration being too much, other forms of celebration become more and more elaborate.
I've got no problem with any kind of celebration as long as it doesn't get overtly personal or taunting. Joy is joy, after all. But I've always found it funny that while the Bud Norris/Paul Molitor types get upset with some types of celebration being too much, other forms of celebration become more and more elaborate.
Taunting celebrations would make baseball more fun.Red(s)HawksFan said:
With every passing year I'm getting more and more tired of watching baseball played "the right way".
It's true that there's a grey area between celebration and taunting, and Ramirez' response to his HR sits right in the middle of it. The bat flip doesn't look like simple joy; there's definitely a bit of "how do you like me now?" going on there. If it's not taunting, it's at least vaunting.
But....so what? It's understandable to find that stuff annoying, but grownups should be able to handle a little annoyance. When instead they let it bubble over into outrage and retaliation they become ridiculous, much more so than a mere bat flip could ever make them. It's amazing to me they can't see that.
But....so what? It's understandable to find that stuff annoying, but grownups should be able to handle a little annoyance. When instead they let it bubble over into outrage and retaliation they become ridiculous, much more so than a mere bat flip could ever make them. It's amazing to me they can't see that.
I actually dug around and that was the worst example of Norris celebrating I could find. If that's his most egregious offense, he's at least walking the walk with regard to playing the game "the right way" as he describes it. Doesn't make him any less of an ass, of course.
So flipping your bat is bad but grabbing your nuts while looking in the other dugout is ok. Well as long as you're white anyway.
He didn't turn his head nearly far enough to look at the dugout. He might have gotten as far as third base, but it looks like he's looking out into left field. And I'm not convinced he was grabbing his nuts in the way you seem to be suggesting. Could have been shifting his cup. Seriously. Do a search for examples of him celebrating. There are none. When he gets out of big jams or has a big strike out, he almost never reacts. This and one time where he ran to the dugout were the worst I could find. And again, this is not an attempt to excuse his comments or to suggest he's actually playing the game the right way. It's fine to acknowledge that he's not also a huge hypocrite. Doesn't mean he's not still an asshole or a racist.
Savin Hillbilly said:
I'm actually ok with people disliking it all they want. If you want to retaliate for someone flipping his bat, go right ahead. But don't turn around and also fire away with righteous indignation that brown people are ruining the game because they aren't playing it the "Right Way". That's what I find juvenile about the whole thing. "But Mom, he's not playing the game by the arbitrary rules that I created!"
Here's what I say to Bud Norris and his ilk: It's a fucking game. Play it, take your millions of "American Dollars", and shut the fuck up.
nvalvo said:
OK. I'll try....
Those samples seem too small to draw any conclusions about anything. 67 in 5 seasons? . 38 were white vs Latino. 29 were not. When two or three incidents can significantly alter the percentagesback toward what one could "expect", the sample size is not useful.
58 of 67 "bench-clearing incidents"? Is it Arod-Varitek; or is it Arod-Arroyo? Is it Pedro-Ice Williams; or someguy vs. Brian Daubach's elbow? Pedro vs. Karim Garcia; or vs. Posada; or vs. Zimmer?
And how do the precentages shake out by position? Or started by HBP or pimping or baserunning?
So you have some constants in KC and Ventura...that would seem to overshadow any larger point.
I think the writer saw or heard something (or was told something) that made him think this was an issue. It might actually be an issue. But these "statistics" (haughtily called a "A USA TODAY Sports study") dont support the premise.
I suppose we can have different determinations about what is going on in that clip, but gun to my head, he's not adjusting his cup there.Snodgrass'Muff said:
Snodgrass'Muff said:
He was most definitely indicating to his shortstop about the extreme size and heft of his....resolve.
Not sure how MASN does it, but were the bases loaded in that clip? He easily could have been looking at whoever was on 3rd base.
NickEsasky said:
Yes, the bases were loaded. But I think he turns his head the way he does to direct his face away from the Angels (or at least Trout, the umpire and the dugout) as best he can. There seems to be as much "wow I got away with one" in his expression as excitement that he got the K and got out of the inning.
In fairness to Bud, he doesn't get out of too many jams or have many really good games so he may not know how to behave on those rare occasions.
http://deadspin.com/jose-fernandez-teases-evan-longoria-after-giving-up-a-h-1734286852
Maybe we should have a thread for these kinds of interactions? Anyways there is Jose Fernandez reacting with grace and humility after giving up a bomb.
Maybe we should have a thread for these kinds of interactions? Anyways there is Jose Fernandez reacting with grace and humility after giving up a bomb.
