Who would you prefer the Sox had gotten for the money?There’s a reason Diekman and Strahm were available at bargain baseman prices. They suck, especially the former.
Who would you prefer the Sox had gotten for the money?There’s a reason Diekman and Strahm were available at bargain baseman prices. They suck, especially the former.
Someone better? Who would you have signed?Who would you prefer the Sox had gotten for the money?
I am prepared to wait and see. You posted that you were dissatisfied with what they did so my guess was you had a better plan?Someone better? Who would you have signed?
Agree with all the above. Just don't understand their Brasier love (I know what he did in 2018), or who they thought would step up to be the closer. Robles has looked good in streaks, but he just doesn't seem to be The Guy to meFair points, Lose. Strahm has been very solid and looks to be a good pickup. I think Diekman will be fine, or not, but his signing wasn’t outrageous or anything. It’s the building and overall composition of the pen I’m confused by. Adding Strahm and Diekman are fine, in a vacuum, but less clear what the plan for the pen is when you’ve already got Davis, Taylor, and Hernandez. I didn’t love Ottavino or anything but he got a lot of big outs for this team; they seem to be hoping Brasier can take on that role but that seems like a leap.
I think the lockout and short spring really screwed things up, but they need to clarify roles.
Taylor?They could send Sawamura to the minors, but who replaces him?
Minor leaguers on the 40-man are Bello, Groome, Hernandez, Mata, Schreiber, Seabold, and Windkowski
Good point, it’s a little confusing with the covid stuff, but once we have to get down to 13 pitchers by end of May, I’d assume we are looking at this (assuming perfect healthTaylor?
Or are we assuming someone like Danish or Crawford goes for him? Two guys still have to go by Sunday without being replaced (though technically they could be position players).
Cut and paste from: https://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/following-former-red-sox-2022-edition.35661/page-2#post-4974597There were any number of RH relievers who signed for similar or lower AAV than Diekman. How about Adam Ottavino? They haven’t been able to replace his role in the team as of yet and he would have been more useful than a 4th lefty (fifth if you count Darwinzon who is pretty similar to Diekman). Or maybe Ryan Tepera? Brad Boxberger?
i dunno, Lose, do you think that Bloom’s off-season was ideal? Can you enlighten us Eeyore’s on what we are missing?
I know, right? Here's their bullpen guys' eras:True, except for all the guys the Rays acquire. Ugh.
Seemingly within minutes. He got dinged up pretty good in the AS Game prior and hasn’t been the same.Well I think my sunny optimism regarding Barnes has collapsed.
WTF happened to him? My recollection was he signed that contract and immediately turned to garbage.
Mmm. He signed the extension July 11. He only really started to tail off about a month after that - August 7 during the Toronto double-header. In the 7 games between he gave up one run (zero earned runs) and picked up 6 saves and a win.Seemingly within minutes. He got dinged up pretty good in the AS Game prior and hasn’t been the same.
If that's the case, he should be DFA'd soon, right? If this is his hot start, I'd hate to see what he'll have left after the ASB.Mmm. He signed the extension July 11. He only really started to tail off about a month after that - August 7 during the Toronto double-header. In the 7 games between he gave up one run (zero earned runs) and picked up 6 saves and a win.
2021 game logs: https://www.mlb.com/player/matt-barnes-598264?stats=gamelogs-r-pitching-mlb&year=2021
Last year he had COVID Aug. 30 and then injured himself during his rehab. That may have complicated his return, but whatever caused him to go off-kilter in early August would be independent of that.
FWIW, in recent years Barnes usually started hot and cooled off. Check out his career splits: https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.fcgi?id=barnema01&year=Career&t=p
I'd be curious to know if there's a pattern to cumulative pitches, or number of outings, or what have you. Because career ERA definitely slumps later in the season.
Possibly the coaching/pitching staff thinks he's fixable.If that's the case, he should be DFA'd soon, right? If this is his hot start, I'd hate to see what he'll have left after the ASB.
Seriously, what's the case for keeping him? He's completely ineffective. In 5 of his 9 appearances this season, he's given up at least a run. We can't use him in any high or medium leverage situation. Yeah, I know we'll have to eat the money, but when we're fighting for respectability, almost anybody else could do what he's done.
I think you know the answer to this question.Can Barnes be sent to AAA (while still being paid)?
I genuinely do not.I think you know the answer to this question.
I'd hope they could IL him. There must be a physical problem if he's lost 5 MPH on his fastball from last fall. If it's not an injury and this is just who he is now, he should be released. He's effectively a one pitch pitcher.Can Barnes be sent to AAA (while still being paid)? I don't want him in any big roles right now and the money isn't *that* substantial (about 10.5 mil if we include his 2024 buyout), but it's not nothing either, I'd hate to give up entirely over 15 or so bad innings.
Option rules for veterans are clear. You can't demote a guy, paid or not, this far into a career.I genuinely do not.
Got it, thx. So as MP suggests, they'd have to come with a justification for the DL.Option rules for veterans are clear. You can't demote a guy, paid or not, this far into a career.
The case to keeping him is 100% the money. They've committed 2 years and $19M to him, they're going to exhaust all other possible options before they simply cut him loose. I know it's relative chump change but I think it's only the fans that think it is panic time at Fenway right now.If that's the case, he should be DFA'd soon, right? If this is his hot start, I'd hate to see what he'll have left after the ASB.
Seriously, what's the case for keeping him? He's completely ineffective. In 5 of his 9 appearances this season, he's given up at least a run. We can't use him in any high or medium leverage situation. Yeah, I know we'll have to eat the money, but when we're fighting for respectability, almost anybody else could do what he's done.
Nitpick / pet peeve but all bullpens are by committee (e.g., long man, LOOGY, 7th inning guy, 8th inning guy, closer). I think you mean closer by committee.Seems like we're pretty much bullpen by committee this year but has this approach ever really worked for us? Didn’t we give up on the Scott Williamson etc experiment in 2003 to get a real closer in Foulke – followed by the amazing Paps, Koji and Kimbrel stretch, with all of these guys keying championships?
Thanks, beat me to it as this is also a pet peeve of mine.Nitpick / pet peeve but all bullpens are by committee (e.g., long man, LOOGY, 7th inning guy, 8th inning guy, closer). I think you mean closer by committee.
yes, absolutelyNitpick / pet peeve but all bullpens are by committee (e.g., long man, LOOGY, 7th inning guy, 8th inning guy, closer). I think you mean closer by committee.
FWIW, it is easy to check whether a player has options left in the 'Roster Resource' page on Fangraphs (Roster Resource used to be its own site but FG bought them):Got it, thx. So as MP suggests, they'd have to come with a justification for the DL.
Helpful, thx.FWIW, it is easy to check whether a player has options left in the 'Roster Resource' page on Fangraphs (Roster Resource used to be its own site but FG bought them):
https://www.fangraphs.com/roster-resource/depth-charts/red-sox
Three weeks later...Bullpen by xERA
Strahm - 1.27
Valdez - 1.30
Diekman - 1.55
Whitlock - 1.73
Robles - 1.93
Barnes - 2.93
Sawamura - 3.33
Davis - 7.36
Brasier - 8.31
Crawford - 8.41
Two above-average relievers (if you count Schreiber), then Barnes, then...yecch.That’s seven above-average relievers, with five of them putting up elite numbers so far.
Yeah, him or German.Andrew Politi is getting the bump to Worcester along with Bello after 13.1 IP with 20 strikeouts and three walks in relief. I would guess that he's the top internal bullpen option right now. Brasier, Danish and Houck all have options, so any of them could be sent down if and when Politi is ready, though they'd have to clear 40-man space too; neither Brasier nor Danish seems like a big loss if they go with a DFA instead, or they could cut Sawamura.
Houck made a personal choice to be unavailable as a starter against a significant division rival.I doubt Houck will be sent down, though I do wonder what would happen if Cora stopped jerking him around and actually used him as a starter. In other words build up his pitch count and see if he can get through the order a third time. At this point I would rather dump Braiser then Danish, though I think if they were at that point they would try Seabold or Winckowski (however you spell his name) in the bullpen.
I doubt Houck will be sent down, though I do wonder what would happen if Cora stopped jerking him around and actually used him as a starter. In other words build up his pitch count and see if he can get through the order a third time. At this point I would rather dump Braiser then Danish, though I think if they were at that point they would try Seabold or Winckowski (however you spell his name) in the bullpen.
Yeah but that doesn't mean his career as a starter should be over. We play 6 games in Toronto out of the next ~130 games. That's 1, maybe 2 starts, which they can easily schedule around in advance. Fact is, the guy has been much better as a starter - 3.22 ERA starting vs. 4.87 in relief. Using him in the bullpen would be a waste of his talent.Houck made a personal choice to be unavailable as a starter against a significant division rival.
Who is saying his career as a starter is over?Yeah but that doesn't mean his career as a starter should be over. We play 6 games in Toronto out of the next ~130 games. That's 1, maybe 2 starts, which they can easily schedule around in advance. Fact is, the guy has been much better as a starter - 3.22 ERA starting vs. 4.87 in relief. Using him in the bullpen would be a waste of his talent.
I am not arguing that Houck is the odd man out once Wacha gets back, but Houck should have been starting last Sunday and he should have been allowed to go five innings assuming he wasn't shitting the bed. The Sox have a crap bullpen and Cora's brillant idea was to have a bullpen game? It just seemed kind of obtuse to me.Who is saying his career as a starter is over?
He got bumped from the rotation because he made himself unavailable for the Toronto series, which allowed for Whitlock to step in and rightfully stick. The only argument right now for Houck to be back in the rotation is the fact that Wacha is on the IL, but the extra off-days last week allowed the team to more or less work around his absence. And now Wacha is expected back on Friday so the rotation is going to be full again.
Houck will get another shot at starting. It's just going to take another injury or serious under-performance for him to get a chance. In the meantime, he can and should be an effective weapon in the bullpen.