Carry on my Hayward Son: Gordon to Charlotte for 4 years, $120M

TripleOT

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Rozier was entering his free agent year and should 100% have been all about Rozier. Imagine knowing that you are a 30+ mpg starter and buried on the bench while playing your sparse minutes out of position in a contract year? He had every right to be bitter.
Kyrie really did a number on the Celtics franchise. First, he promises to re-sign, which may have influenced Ainge to not try to move him in season. He blocks minutes for the young, contract year PG who put in work in the playoffs when he was out.

He then signs elsewhere, with nothing coming back in return. Alienated Rozier goes to Charlotte and becomes productive, and a crunch time killer.

Then Kyrie tries to downgrade the Celtics as a destination for FAs with “we all know how racist that city is,” even though he couldn’t provide one personal instance of racism here.

Smart move if you’re putting together a superteam in the conference and a potential rival have two young ascending all star wings.
 

benhogan

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Rozier was entering his free agent year and should 100% have been all about Rozier. Imagine knowing that you are a 30+ mpg starter and buried on the bench while playing your sparse minutes out of position in a contract year? He had every right to be bitter.
in fairness, Terry was excellent as a starter in the 2018 regular season and playoffs. He did have every right to be PO'd

That last season of Kyrie set back this organization more than any of us ever realized.

Hop in a time/hindsight machine and Danny deals Kyrie a month after he deserts the team for Game 7 against the Cavs. Wonder what the Celtics land for 26yr old Kyrie Irving?
 
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BigSoxFan

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in fairness, Terry was excellent as a starter in the 2018 regular season and playoffs. He did have every right to be PO'd

That last season of Kyrie set back this organization more than any of us ever realized.

Hop in a time/hindsight machine and Danny deals Kyrie a month after he deserts the team for Game 7 against the Cavs. Wonder what the Celtics land for 26yr old Kyrie Irving?
I will forever wonder what deals Ainge turned down for Kyrie a few years ago. Doubt anything earth shattering but probably some intriguing options.
 

chilidawg

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in fairness, Terry was excellent as a starter in the 2018 regular season and playoffs. He did have every right to be PO'd

That last season of Kyrie set back this organization more than any of us ever realized.

Hop in a time/hindsight machine and Danny deals Kyrie a month after he deserts the team for Game 7 against the Cavs. Wonder what the Celtics land for 26yr old Kyrie Irving?
I'd like to see the time machine that takes you to the alternate universe where we never made the trade. Is Crowder the mentor the Js need? Does Brad turn Zizic into a viable NBA player?
 

nighthob

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I'd like to see the time machine that takes you to the alternate universe where we never made the trade. Is Crowder the mentor the Js need? Does Brad turn Zizic into a viable NBA player?
No, but I bet he turns Shai Gilgeous-Alexander into the running mate that the JayCrew needs.
 

nighthob

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$61 million for a mid first in a crap draft? Is there anyone outside Presti that would pay that sort of cash?
 

radsoxfan

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Rough situation for the Hornets. 2/61+ left for Gordon and he can't stay on the floor.

Lots of foot and ankle issues since the terrible fracture/dislocation with the Celtics. Some might have been fluky but overall I'd assume he's probably got some arthritis and is just not going to be durable or consistent at this point in his career.

He's not currently a bad player and could help someone off the bench in spurts, but this is a pretty depressing end to his once super promising career. Not surprised Charlotte might want to trade for RWB if they can get rid of GH and then be free of the final year.
 

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Cellar-Door

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$61 million for a mid first in a crap draft? Is there anyone outside Presti that would pay that sort of cash?
someone who wants to get off more money this year. like the Lakers. HOU might do it too.

Edit- problem is the match, not sure who else CHA needs to add. In a 3 way deal it's easier.
 

nighthob

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Charlotte would have to include another player to trade for Westbrook or Wall. I mean the Rockets might be desperate enough to pay $27 million (assuming Oubre is the other player) for a mid first, but at this point that much stockpiling of inmates in an asylum would be bordering on managerial malpractice.
 

Cellar-Door

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Charlotte would have to include another player to trade for Westbrook or Wall. I mean the Rockets might be desperate enough to pay $27 million (assuming Oubre is the other player) for a mid first, but at this point that much stockpiling of inmates in an asylum would be bordering on managerial malpractice.
HOU might do it on the OKC theory, basically that Wall is a sunk cost, they don't need cap space next year that badly and if Hayward stays moderately healthy they can flip him for something as a 1 year deal, he's never healthy for long, but when he is healthy he's a really good player that fits almost any team, that would have value on 1/31. I would guess the other pieces would be maybe Plumlee and #13 ($4M if traded after he's picked) that's 42-43M, then buy out Westbrook or Wall, or re-route them.
 

radsoxfan

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HOU might do it on the OKC theory, basically that Wall is a sunk cost, they don't need cap space next year that badly and if Hayward stays moderately healthy they can flip him for something as a 1 year deal, he's never healthy for long, but when he is healthy he's a really good player that fits almost any team, that would have value on 1/31. I would guess the other pieces would be maybe Plumlee and #13 ($4M if traded after he's picked) that's 42-43M, then buy out Westbrook or Wall, or re-route them.
I've always been a Hayward guy in general, but I'm not sure he's a "really good player" anymore, even when he's healthy enough to be on the court.

I think he could still help a team, especially off the bench. But hard to rely on him and not sure I can see him having much value at 31M a year.
 

mwonow

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$31M is way, way, way too much. But I have to admit, I look at the current Cs, squint hard at Hayward, and I can almost see Walton 2.0. Too bad the money would never work.
 

Eddie Jurak

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$31M is way, way, way too much. But I have to admit, I look at the current Cs, squint hard at Hayward, and I can almost see Walton 2.0. Too bad the money would never work.
We could have used a "healthy enough to play" Hayward last week. I'd be open to taking him back, but the money just makes it not even possible. And we have little use for a draft pick. I suppose we could absorb a player into our TPE and then shuffle off with Smart or White, but that kills the TPE and worsens team depth. If Al Horford was a valueless lodestone I'd ship him out for Hayward in his current state but that is obviously not the case.
 

Van Everyman

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this is a pretty depressing end to his once super promising career.
In some ways but at the same time it was kind of a smart move in retrospect for Hayward to opt out of his Celtics contract and maximize his payday while he still had value. And as you mention, it doesn’t preclude another chapter of him as a bench guy on a title contender.
 

NomarsFool

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In some ways but at the same time it was kind of a smart move in retrospect for Hayward to opt out of his Celtics contract and maximize his payday while he still had value. And as you mention, it doesn’t preclude another chapter of him as a bench guy on a title contender.
Possibly, but it's also very possible he spends the next two years toiling away on an even crappier team than Charlotte. After that, he might have an opportunity or two as a ring chaser on a vet minimum - but I'd guess he doesn't do that, and is instead looking at MLE type deals.

By opting out he certainly maximized his earning opportunity, and based on his public statements - he was also looking for an opportunity where he would be the alpha dog (he didn't say it that way - but he did talk about having a higher usage rate). IMO, he chose poorly as I don't think the extra money is going to make a meaningful difference in his life and he missed out on the opportunity to have had quite a bit of team success. Even being the 3rd banana on a team that goes to the NBA finals I assume would be more personally satisfying than being the top dog on a play-in caliber team year in and year out. But, he's the one who decides what is most important to him. Maybe he also likes not having the pressure of being on a team with real expectations - no idea.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Possibly, but it's also very possible he spends the next two years toiling away on an even crappier team than Charlotte. After that, he might have an opportunity or two as a ring chaser on a vet minimum - but I'd guess he doesn't do that, and is instead looking at MLE type deals.

By opting out he certainly maximized his earning opportunity, and based on his public statements - he was also looking for an opportunity where he would be the alpha dog (he didn't say it that way - but he did talk about having a higher usage rate). IMO, he chose poorly as I don't think the extra money is going to make a meaningful difference in his life and he missed out on the opportunity to have had quite a bit of team success. Even being the 3rd banana on a team that goes to the NBA finals I assume would be more personally satisfying than being the top dog on a play-in caliber team year in and year out. But, he's the one who decides what is most important to him. Maybe he also likes not having the pressure of being on a team with real expectations - no idea.
He might get the Kemba treatment - released and able to hook on elsewhere.
 

NomarsFool

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He might get the Kemba treatment - released and able to hook on elsewhere.
Kemba only had a year left, though, right? I don't see any NBA teams shelling out $61 million for a FRP. My guess is he goes to some awful team to see if he can rehab his reputation into some kind of asset for the receiving team. So, Hayward toils away in OKC or Houston for 1 - 1.5 years, and is then either traded somewhere for an asset or bought out.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Kemba only had a year left, though, right? I don't see any NBA teams shelling out $61 million for a FRP. My guess is he goes to some awful team to see if he can rehab his reputation into some kind of asset for the receiving team. So, Hayward toils away in OKC or Houston for 1 - 1.5 years, and is then either traded somewhere for an asset or bought out.
Kemba had 2021-22 and 2022-23 left.
 

Justthetippett

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We can fairly question GHs motivations but what the hell was/is Charlotte doing? Amazes me that MJ runs such a shitty franchise that they have to give away picks and it’s not even an illogical move given their current options.

On GHs return, I guess stranger things have happened but I think there are lots of better fits out there for both parties given the financials and his current stage.
 

radsoxfan

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In some ways but at the same time it was kind of a smart move in retrospect for Hayward to opt out of his Celtics contract and maximize his payday while he still had value. And as you mention, it doesn’t preclude another chapter of him as a bench guy on a title contender.

100% the right move for Hayward to opt out and get everything he could.

But this end to his career, considering his trajectory after Utah, is just depressing. It happens to plenty of guys due to injury but still a bummer.
 

Van Everyman

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100% the right move for Hayward to opt out and get everything he could.

But this end to his career, considering his trajectory after Utah, is just depressing. It happens to plenty of guys due to injury but still a bummer.
Agreed. On an Ainge thread, I wrote this about Hayward somewhat recently and def. stick by it, Butterfly Effect and all:
I think the Hayward signing should have gone down as Danny's coup de gras. The dude was perfect for not only the version of this team with Kyrie and Al, but also the one with an emerging Tatum and Brown. He could play the point a little, he could defend. He could rebound and score. And he didn’t need to be "the guy." He was an athletic 6'7" version of Brad. We saw flashes of it two seasons after his injury in the bubble year, but most of that got swallowed up in fallout from the Kyrie drama and more ongoing injuries. But even if things had more or less played out the way they did with Kyrie, I actually don’t think Danny would have signed Kemba to replace him had Hayward stayed healthy. I get that this is a results-based job and don't blame people if they see this chapter as something of a bust, but you don’t have to squint too hard to see how franchise-altering this move could--and maybe should--have been given the talent the guy would have had around him in Tatum, Brown, Smart, etc.