Cavs fire David Blatt

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,096
The crazy thing about NBA coaching is players will ignore one coach and listen to another about the same thing. Shaq has admitted Phil said the same things as Dallas Harris, but he listened to Phil.

I have heard Pat Riley speak a few times. He said said 90% of his job most of us could do, the other 10% was only part basketball and part political. He said he figured his ego made him ignore politics at the end in LA and underestimated how much Jerry West helped him in that respect. The last time I saw him was leading into the off season when LBJ would ultimately end up in Miami. His only comment was LeBron had smart people around him who understood the need for players, coach, front office to be on the same page, then added "but I was a lot older than LeBron when I forgot."
Is this really pertinent only to the NBA though? It is in all walks of life where you buy into what the people say who you believe in and trust while not having the confidence and trust in the words of those that you don't. This is the difference between a coach having a locker room and one who doesn't have it or lost it along the way.
 

Nick Kaufman

protector of human kind from spoilers
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 2, 2003
13,410
A Lost Time
Sure...appalling...whatever. That doesn't take away from the fact that at his job LeBron is either the best or one of the top 2 players in the world at what he does. Does that make him a great guy or a coach killer or whatever...who cares: he's great at his job. David Blatt was lucky to have his job and, simply put, blew it. He didn't gain respect from his players. He didn't coach well in games. And didn't figure out ways to schematically make best use of the odd (but incredibly talented) assortment of players he inherited. Tough fucking shit if LeBron was an asshole: it's a coaches job to deal with assholes. If he can't, then that's his problem, as simple as that. We could all do these jobs given the right circumstances. I could be as great an NBA player as LeBron if the NBA was filled with 5th grade midgets. David Blatt can be a great coach in Israel. LeBron is a great player in the NBA as it exists. David Blatt fucking sucked as a coach in the NBA as it exists. So spare the fucking whining.
So, if I am an asshole to you, it's your fault because you can't deal with my assholery? More to the point, sometimes assholery might be justified and earned by the person who's the butt of it. However, based on the reporting we have here, Blatt didn't have respect as soon as he stepped his foot on the Cavs' locker room. There's a certain degree of provincialism and snobbery going on here. Players like Lebron didn't trust him because he was successful in a league they didn't really know and they don't really respect. David Blatt wasn't just good in Israel. He won the Euroleague. The Euroleague AFAIK is the second best league in the world-after the NBA. Ok, you might say, it's second best and not really close, so why should he be getting respect? Fair enough. But the Euroleague is better than college basketball and again AFAIK, college basketball coaches who make the transition to the NBA don't face the same kind of distrust and snobbery because they come from an inferior league -a league btw in which success depends less on tactical acuity and more on one's ability to recruit well.

I don't know whether Blatt is a good coach or not. It's really hard to tell, because he was inserted in a situation in which it was very hard to succeed in. Conversely, Lebron is the best in the world at his job. That doesn't mean however that he's the best in the world at being an agent, a coach or a GM. It certainly doesn't mean that he should be any of those things. Nor does it mean that because he's the best player, he's entitled to being a prick to his coach without justification. Why can't he be judged on that?
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,096
So, if I am an asshole to you, it's your fault because you can't deal with my assholery? More to the point, sometimes assholery might be justified and earned by the person who's the butt of it. However, based on the reporting we have here, Blatt didn't have respect as soon as he stepped his foot on the Cavs' locker room.
This is the basis of your argument and it is where you are wrong. The reports were that Blatt lost respect when he arrogantly went off on his team about his accomplishments in an inferior league following his first win when Kyrie and some others wanted to give their new coach the game ball and enjoy the moment. He had an opportunity to earn the trust and respect of the players and he failed miserably which ultimately cost him his job.


There's a certain degree of provincialism and snobbery going on here. Players like Lebron didn't trust him because he was successful in a league they didn't really know and they don't really respect. David Blatt wasn't just good in Israel. He won the Euroleague. The Euroleague AFAIK is the second best league in the world-after the NBA. Ok, you might say, it's second best and not really close, so why should he be getting respect? Fair enough. But the Euroleague is better than college basketball and again AFAIK, college basketball coaches who make the transition to the NBA don't face the same kind of distrust and snobbery because they come from an inferior league -a league btw in which success depends less on tactical acuity and more on one's ability to recruit well.
Compared to the NBA, Euroleague is complete garbage. It consists of players either incapable of being wanted by an NBA team or players who failed in the NBA. Currently, 4 of the leagues Top 5 scorers are guys who tried and couldn't cut it in the NBA......and those are the ones who were good enough to get a shot. Blatt comes onto a team led by the greatest player in the world along with two other NBA All-Stars and your response to them accepting you is to go off on your minor league accomplishments? LOL, yeah it's baffling how he never earned their respect.
 

Tony C

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Apr 13, 2000
13,694
Who cares whose fault it is? No doubt most the people involved are assholes....that's a given. The question for management is who can best coach those assholes. You really think they should tell LeBron or whomever they're being big meanies to Blatt? It's Blatt's job to get their respect. It's not that it's fair. Life isn't fair. Per Shaq's quote....he screwed over D. Harris...such is life. The Lakers weren't wrong to change coaches because Shaq (or Magic before that..or...whomever) were being unfair.

No, I'm saying that is an approach that would make sense if he was taking over Minnesota, a team built around two young studs with nothing to play for this season. Cleveland is in a position where 1) their regular season results are close to irrelevant for the rest of the season, they'll almost certainly end up as the #1 seed in the East and the road team if they get to the Finals, 2) they're built around one crucial but aging player who will be better in the postseason the less that he has to play hard until then, and 3) one of their other two cornerstones is coming off knee surgery and certainly shouldn't be pushing it at full steam for another few months.

But really what I'm saying is that none of this matters until they trade Kevin Love. I don't think the coach matters until that happens, and this specific approach is more likely to end in failure (not making the Finals) than success (winning a title), IMO.
You're wrong, I think. Lue has been very clear that he wants to expand the rotation for the very reasons you say: so the team is fresher for the playoffs. It's Blatt who had shortened the rotation, so if you have a bone to pick it's with him. Emphasizing conditioning in no way means you're running players into the ground ....I mean, the very idea of conditioning is the opposite of that.
 

Devizier

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 3, 2000
19,470
Somewhere
Agreed. Two years ago I was watching the Warriors and hopping on the bandwagon because they were fun. I thought they could be better (maybe a lot better) under a Not Mark Jackson coach. I don't think anybody anywhere thought they'd turn into the fucking nuclear death machines of the NBA. I literally can't think of a situation that parallels this in major American sports, where a team has gone from "yeah, pretty good" to "in the conversation for the best ever" in an eyeblink. And through player development, rather than a big free-agent splash; that's insane.
The Bulls, after switching coaches from Collins to Phil Jackson.
 

jon abbey

Shanghai Warrior
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
70,731
Lue has been very clear that he wants to expand the rotation for the very reasons you say: so the team is fresher for the playoffs. It's Blatt who had shortened the rotation, so if you have a bone to pick it's with him. Emphasizing conditioning in no way means you're running players into the ground ....I mean, the very idea of conditioning is the opposite of that.
OK, that makes more sense than the quotes in the article I linked, I hadn't seen other post-hire Lue quotes besides that.
 

GBA

New Member
Jul 18, 2005
32
The Bulls, after switching coaches from Collins to Phil Jackson.
Only jumped up by 8 games (55 for Phil's first compared to Collins 47 in his last year). Same loss to the Pistons in the east final. That's not nothing but still isn't in the same as the Warriors 51 wins to 67 and first round exit v championship.
 

Devizier

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 3, 2000
19,470
Somewhere
Only jumped up by 8 games (55 for Phil's first compared to Collins 47 in his last year). Same loss to the Pistons in the east final. That's not nothing but still isn't in the same as the Warriors 51 wins to 67 and first round exit v championship.
It's true -- Jackson took two years to get the Bulls into full swing. But the Bulls then went on to win six championships in the next eight years.
 

GBA

New Member
Jul 18, 2005
32
It's true -- Jackson took two years to get the Bulls into full swing. But the Bulls then went on to win six championships in the next eight years.
I guess I've always felt that was more due to simple additional development from Jordan/pippen and maybe improved roster depth than just better coaching. Then again one could use that argument for the Warriors as well - curry and green especially are not the same guys as two seasons ago and the overall roster was definitely improved for Kerr. Either way we can at least agree Phil is the better Jackson, right?
 

Blacken

Robespierre in a Cape
SoSH Member
Jul 24, 2007
12,152
The Bulls, after switching coaches from Collins to Phil Jackson.
Being not an Old, I cannot attest to this personally, but my understanding is that the arc already looked really promising for the Bulls, with Jordan rapidly on his way to being Jordan even if there were coaching issues putting a ceiling on them. The Warriors looked like they were a good, modern team, but Curry didn't look like he was going to turn into...this, and Green was completely off the radar.

That said, even if you're right, that's not exactly bad company.
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
9,275
I think this (https://newrepublic.com/article/120572/adrian-wojnarowski-how-basketballs-reporting-machine-gets-his-scoops) is a really good read about Woj, his reporting style, and the way he wages battles against sources that aren't helpful.

He's undoubtedly a great source of breaking news. If he breaks a trade, you can be certain it's accurate. But I am always very hesitant to put much stock in his reporting beyond that.
Great post and thank you for the link. Woj has written numerous hit pieces on Bron and his group of friends (they basically make up Klutch Sports, the agency Woj keeps referencing). Woj is great at breaking trades, signings, and trade discussions but when it comes to actual articles he is really not worth reading. They are all either completely driven by his agenda (see all the LeBron articles) or a sources agenda to appease them.
For example, he wrote an article absolutely killing Coach K about coaching the olympic team, how much it helps in recrutiing, how unfair it is all the while praising John Calipari and talking about how misunderstood he was bla bla bla. The article completely failed to mention that Cal coached the Dominican Olympic team which helped him make great inroads with and ultimately land Karl Anthony Towns. The article read as clueless, vindictive and jealous....and the byline may as well have read by Adrian Wojnarowski with special reporting by John Calipari
 

snowmanny

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
15,670
There are lots of modern examples of coaches/managers of very successful/not-quite-championship teams getting fired (How can you fire Buck Showalter? How can you fire Tony Dungy? How can you fire Grady Little? How can you fire Paul Westhead? How can you fire Bill Fitch?) where the next guy immediately took the team to a championship. Getting a particular group of talent to gel is a skill.
 

soxhop411

news aggravator
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2009
46,277
Called it

“@IAmDPick: Miami Heat part-owner Raanan Katz said LeBron had Blatt fired. In same breath: ”He tried the same with Spo, but failed.“”
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,678
Just a note, I know him personally, the truth is not in Katz. If he swears to it the odds are overwhelmingly that it never happened.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,096
Called it

“@IAmDPick: Miami Heat part-owner Raanan Katz said LeBron had Blatt fired. In same breath: ”He tried the same with Spo, but failed.“”
Katz' reliability is on par with Andre Drummond at the FT line. This guy has a long history of acting on vendettas. The only surprise here is that he waited so long to publicly attack LeBron.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,678
You don't know the half of it. If he weren't so litigious I could tell you some real horror stories. Katz isn't the bottom of the barrel, though, he's the toxins that leeched out the bottom that the EPA needs to clean up.
 

Grin&MartyBarret

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 2, 2007
4,932
East Village, NYC
Katz is also the former owner of Maccabi Tel Aviv, Blatt's former team, and of course the part owner of a team that LeBron James just left in free agency.

But sure. He's trustworthy.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,096
You don't know the half of it. If he weren't so litigious I could tell you some real horror stories. Katz isn't the bottom of the barrel, though, he's the toxins that leeched out the bottom that the EPA needs to clean up.
That lawsuit would be awesome though. "Docket #C37HRB493-F case between one Raanan Katz and longtime internet poster nighthob."
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,678
The problem is, as I said, that I know him personally, and if I aired the stories he'd know who I was. ;)
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,096
The problem is, as I said, that I know him personally, and if I aired the stories he'd know who I was. ;)
Send them to me. I'll air them while prefacing the stories with "My friends cousins sister-in-law works with a guy who may or may not know someone who......." We can beat the system.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,678
I'll ponder it. However, one thing I can tell you about him, Rennie is the sort of guy that's never picked up a check in his life. Unless it involved the vast legal bills involved keeping his kids out of prison.
 

Devizier

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 3, 2000
19,470
Somewhere
Cavaliers are looking good lately. Five and one with a convincing (home) win against the Spurs.

Windhorst/Lowe weigh in:


Following a meeting called by general manager David Griffin to inform the team that coach David Blatt had been fired, Cavs players held an extended and spirited players-only meeting, sources told ESPN.com. It turned into an airing of grievances, including stars LeBron James, Kevin Love and Kyrie Irving, but eventually led to an agreement that has been a basis for the Cavs' recent strong play.

"It was like ripping off a scab," one team source said. "And it was exactly what needed to happen. I think it was what [Griffin] was hoping for."

Said another source: "It was very healthy for the team. It probably needed to happen weeks ago."