Celebrating what is

rodderick

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Apr 24, 2009
11,679
Belo Horizonte - Brazil
Yeah, like I said it is a close call. That's why I can't say I'd trade 53 or 39 (or whatever) for it, because like you I don't want to lose those memories. But if you started the simulation of the BB/TB era over again and, without knowing which years they were going to win or how or which teams they would face along the way, you got the choice of 5 Super Bowls with one being an undefeated season or six, I'd probably take the 5. Like I said massive first world sports problems.

But like @tims4wins said it only took 15 years but I can at least talk about that game without being massively triggered. It doesn't help that I was there and it was the most painful in-person sports experience of my life, but I at least can look at those still shots of the Pierre Woods play and not vomit.
Ooff, had I been present at the game I'm sure I'd have a different perspective. Basically the chance to turn one of the worst nights of your life into one of the best. Hard to pass up.
 

grsharky7

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Jul 15, 2005
1,170
Berlin, PA
Ehhh, let’s take it from another angle. I used to feel pretty traumatized by the Scottish Game, even as recently as the last year or two. But now with Brady almost certainly retired for good it’s a little like the 2003 ALCS MFYs/Boone walk-off to me. Yes, I still wish we’d won it but now that loss is part of a larger narrative in which my team overcomes the odds to do something unprecedented in sports.

Are used to ask myself what I would’ve given up for the Patriots to have won that game. But as I look back now, there’s no way in the world I would give up Super Bowl 49 or 51 for that. Those moments and the utter dominance they symbolized are way too life-affirming for me and every bit as much a part of sports immortality.
Same here, in fact I feel like its fun to say, "oh yeah between each of the three Super Bowl runs, they had an undefeated season mixed in and just came up short." I still really haven't watched any of that game outside of the Tyree catch and the Moss near miss. So there is so much from that game that is just a blank for me, including the fumble above, I barely remember it.

That year was so wild as a sports fan for me.

2007 Red Sox-World Champs
2007 WVU football-lose a chance at a national title appearance by losing to our arch rival at home, and as 28 point favorites.
2007 Pats-undefeated regular season-lose in the Super Bowl
2008 WVU basketball-Sweet 16 appearance and knocked off Duke along the way
2008 Celtics-World Champs

That year had ultimate highs and gut punching lows for with WVU mixed in there.
 

Van Everyman

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Apr 30, 2009
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Yeah, like I said it is a close call. That's why I can't say I'd trade 53 or 39 (or whatever) for it, because like you I don't want to lose those memories. But if you started the simulation of the BB/TB era over again and, without knowing which years they were going to win or how or which teams they would face along the way, you got the choice of 5 Super Bowls with one being an undefeated season or six, I'd probably take the 5. Like I said massive first world sports problems.

But like @tims4wins said it only took 15 years but I can at least talk about that game without being massively triggered. It doesn't help that I was there and it was the most painful in-person sports experience of my life, but I at least can look at those still shots of the Pierre Woods play and not vomit.
Yeah, being there probably puts you in a slightly different category, I get that. But I'm not really look at this from a "What other Super Bowl would you give up to have won SB 42" perspective -- I mean, what fan wouldn't say "Any of them"? Five versus six with a perfect season in there isn't really a tough call. My bigger point is that the pain is pretty much gone. I'm sure if we looked back at the game threads and posts around 49 there were already at least a few people saying that the Butler interception made up for 42. And, again after 51.

What I'm saying is that given that we three disparate stretches of dominance, with the latter arguably their most dominant and exciting, it's hard to actually feel much pain anymore from the near-miss in 42 in the same way I don't feel the pain of watching Wakefield trudge off the field while Boone rounds the bases in 2003. Time heals all wounds -- especially three more times.
 

BigSoxFan

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May 31, 2007
45,675
Same here, in fact I feel like its fun to say, "oh yeah between each of the three Super Bowl runs, they had an undefeated season mixed in and just came up short." I still really haven't watched any of that game outside of the Tyree catch and the Moss near miss. So there is so much from that game that is just a blank for me, including the fumble above, I barely remember it.

That year was so wild as a sports fan for me.

2007 Red Sox-World Champs
2007 WVU football-lose a chance at a national title appearance by losing to our arch rival at home, and as 28 point favorites.
2007 Pats-undefeated regular season-lose in the Super Bowl
2008 WVU basketball-Sweet 16 appearance and knocked off Duke along the way
2008 Celtics-World Champs

That year had ultimate highs and gut punching lows for with WVU mixed in there.
I'm similar to you. As a BC fan, we got to #2 in the nation in November with Matty Ice and that NEVER happens (thanks for 1993, WV!). So many highs and lows in 2007-2008. The Celtics title over the Lakers definitely helped in a big way. That was awesome and much-needed.
 
Apr 24, 2019
1,258
The Patriots lost the perfect season on my birthday, the day after which I flew back to L.A. from JFK where everyone was celebrating the improbable Giants win. OTOH, my birthday was also the day of the first Super Bowl win and the most recent Super Bowl win, so I can’t complain, but watch me.

Edit typod
 

SemperFidelisSox

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May 25, 2008
29,801
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All nine Super Bowls were decided by 10 points or less. Four of them by 3 points. The Patriots could easily have 7-8 Super Bowls. They could just as easily have only 2-3. I feel more than grateful for the six wins given how close every one of those games was.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Apr 12, 2005
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I have an autographed picture of the Butler INT in my son's room. I'll admit that I didn't see the play, I turned off the tv when Lynch caught that first long pass. I just couldn't take it, I had actually left a party at halftime to go watch it by myself at home. I followed the game thread on here and the reactions to the Kearse catch were off the wall insane and depressing. Then nothing but f-bombs and exclamation points when Butler made the int, and I turned on the tv to see the Seahawks jump offsides and then the hell breaking loose with the scrum afterwards.

I was in a bar in Morgantown about 4 years after that Super Bowl and Bruce Irvin walked in. My one buddy dared my to go ask what it felt like to be ejected from the Super Bowl, but I didn't have the balls to do it. Plus there is a 99% chance Bruce would put my through the front window.
Got a bit of a different story on that Butler pick.

The following season, a buddy of mine went to the Patriots Foundation charity event and won a "movie night at Gillette for 30 of your friends." It was a child friendly event, with Jumanji or something as the movie, but we had run of the mill of the entire stadium, including locker rooms, weight rooms, etc.

We were supposed to be hosted by Malcolm Butler and Matthew Slater. Butler had become my 8 year old son's favorite player at the time due to his pick the previous season. Butler couldn't make it, so Geneo Grissom filled in for him. We had a great time, but at one point, my son had said to Slater "Why isn't Malcom here?" Slater then had a conversation with my son along the lines of "you like Malcolm, I'm sorry he couldn't make it, etc." My son was disappointed, but nothing over the top.

A week later, we get an autographed framed photo of the pick delivered via Fedex. On it, it said "To my #1 fan, Matthew," autographed by Malcolm. Unknown to us at the time, Slater had gone and found my buddy who won the charity auction item, got our address and information, and then contacted Malcolm to send the picture from Alabama where he was at home. My son was on cloud nine for weeks.

Matthew Slater will always have a special place in my heart. The man is just GOOD. No other way to describe him.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Oct 1, 2015
22,205
Got a bit of a different story on that Butler pick.

The following season, a buddy of mine went to the Patriots Foundation charity event and won a "movie night at Gillette for 30 of your friends." It was a child friendly event, with Jumanji or something as the movie, but we had run of the mill of the entire stadium, including locker rooms, weight rooms, etc.

We were supposed to be hosted by Malcolm Butler and Matthew Slater. Butler had become my 8 year old son's favorite player at the time due to his pick the previous season. Butler couldn't make it, so Geneo Grissom filled in for him. We had a great time, but at one point, my son had said to Slater "Why isn't Malcom here?" Slater then had a conversation with my son along the lines of "you like Malcolm, I'm sorry he couldn't make it, etc." My son was disappointed, but nothing over the top.

A week later, we get an autographed framed photo of the pick delivered via Fedex. On it, it said "To my #1 fan, Matthew," autographed by Malcolm. Unknown to us at the time, Slater had gone and found my buddy who won the charity auction item, got our address and information, and then contacted Malcolm to send the picture from Alabama where he was at home. My son was on cloud nine for weeks.

Matthew Slater will always have a special place in my heart. The man is just GOOD. No other way to describe him.
That's a great story about Slater. I'm so glad you shared it. I've gotten to know him this past year and he really is an absolutely terrific person.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Oct 1, 2015
22,205
I have an autographed picture of the Butler INT in my son's room. I'll admit that I didn't see the play, I turned off the tv when Lynch caught that first long pass. I just couldn't take it, I had actually left a party at halftime to go watch it by myself at home. I followed the game thread on here and the reactions to the Kearse catch were off the wall insane and depressing. Then nothing but f-bombs and exclamation points when Butler made the int, and I turned on the tv to see the Seahawks jump offsides and then the hell breaking loose with the scrum afterwards.

I was in a bar in Morgantown about 4 years after that Super Bowl and Bruce Irvin walked in. My one buddy dared my to go ask what it felt like to be ejected from the Super Bowl, but I didn't have the balls to do it. Plus there is a 99% chance Bruce would put my through the front window.
If anyone is interested in revisiting the game thread, here it is:

https://sonsofsamhorn.net/index.php?threads/super-bowl-xlix-patriots-vs-seahawks.7650/

Just amazing, amazing reading.

One great quote (among soooooo many), as Seattle was marching down the field to potentially win the game at the end (and obviously before the Butler pick):

Please, just give me one stop, right now, and my hand to God I'll never ask for anything as a professional sports fan for the rest of my life.
@JimBoSox9 - how's that going? You got the stop you begged for. Have you lived up to your end of the bargain? ;)
 

Deathofthebambino

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Apr 12, 2005
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That's a great story about Slater. I'm so glad you shared it. I've gotten to know him this past year and he really is an absolutely terrific person.
I can't say for sure Slater is the one that approached my friend, or he went to the Patriots PR person that was there, and had them get the information, but it definitely started with Slater.

I think the thing I gleaned from Slater that night was that he was prouder of the fact that he had something to do with the Patriots having the most well attended weekly Bible study sessions of any team in the NFL, than he was by any of his on field heroics. IIRC, at that point, it was something like 80% of the team was voluntarily attending.

Like I said, dude is just good.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Oct 1, 2015
22,205
I can't say for sure Slater is the one that approached my friend, or he went to the Patriots PR person that was there, and had them get the information, but it definitely started with Slater.

I think the thing I gleaned from Slater that night was that he was prouder of the fact that he had something to do with the Patriots having the most well attended weekly Bible study sessions of any team in the NFL, than he was by any of his on field heroics. IIRC, at that point, it was something like 80% of the team was voluntarily attending.

Like I said, dude is just good.
Yeah, that's super cool. He is a well-rounded person, cares about others, and tries to do life right. He's not flawless, of course, but he's a terrific leader of men and he's a great role model. So humble and down to earth, and understands the bigger picture.
 

JOBU

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Sep 22, 2021
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What’s really impressive is that NY has 9 teams and LA has 6 (now 8) teams within the market as opposed to 4 for Boston. Think about that
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Oct 1, 2015
22,205
Someone posted this in the comments but by sport here’s where the Boston team ranks:

NFL #1
NBA #4
NHL #4
MLB #5

Top five in every sport. Nuts.
 

JOBU

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Sep 22, 2021
7,572
Someone posted this in the comments but by sport here’s where the Boston team ranks:

NFL #1
NBA #4
NHL #4
MLB #5

Top five in every sport. Nuts.
Hard to believe the Red Sox are 5th in MLB and last in the Boston group with four championships. Must be the feast or famine nature of their run since 2004 and less rounds (to make it to the finals) than the b’s and c’s?
 

jmcc5400

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Sep 29, 2000
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Hard to believe the Red Sox are 5th in MLB and last in the Boston group with four championships. Must be the feast or famine nature of their run since 2004 and less rounds (to make it to the finals) than the b’s and c’s?
I'd guess the Sox are second in MLB, behind only the MFY, during that time. And of course, they aren't last in the Boston group for championships - they're second.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Oct 1, 2015
22,205
Hard to believe the Red Sox are 5th in MLB and last in the Boston group with four championships. Must be the feast or famine nature of their run since 2004 and less rounds (to make it to the finals) than the b’s and c’s?
That’s exactly it. Obviously some deep runs (a couple of ALCS appearances along with the four WS runs but a lot of years where they missed the playoffs entirely.
 

BuellMiller

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Mar 25, 2015
431
And they didn’t count byes as a playoff round…that should be another 13 for Boston and NY and LA would have just 1 more each, I think (2008 Giants and 2018 Rams)
 

InstaFace

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Sep 27, 2016
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When talking about the 2018 AFCCG, everyone who's not a Patriots fan brings up the Dee Ford play, where Brady would've thrown a game-sealing interception were it not for the offsides.

But only a few minutes prior, the same happens in reverse, when Hightower would've gotten a fumble recovery were it not for a pretty ticky-tack call on JC Jackson (at 9:06" in the video):

View: https://youtu.be/k5Lf4p7mTgk?t=546


4 years later, and the no-call that pick play to set up Mahomes' second go-ahead touchdown is still ridiculous. Mahomes got every call he needed or wanted in that 4th quarter. And it still wasn't enough, because Brady got the benefit of the call that made all the difference: "Heads!"
 

Caspir

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Jul 16, 2005
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Sticking this here since I think he’s the second best coach (behind BB, obv) in Patriots history. Scar getting some flowers from the HOF.

View: https://twitter.com/MikeReiss/status/1638600450705440769



Congratulations to longtime Patriots OL coach Dante Scarnecchia. Scarnecchia has been selected to receive an Award of Excellence from the Pro Football Hall of Fame -- given to those who propelled the success of individual teams and the sport of professional football.


1:56 PM · Mar 22, 2023
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BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Oct 1, 2015
22,205
Don’t know where to put this but it involves the great Pats teams so…. Here you go.

https://nesn.com/2023/03/devin-mccourty-shares-eye-opening-steve-belichick-story/

Steve Belichick’s promotion to safeties coach in 2016 was…. Crazy, apparently. This is a fascinating story. Long and short of it is that he admitted to the players that he had no clue what he was doing. And so he took the approach of a collaborative effort with the safeties.

That year, by the way, they had the #1 defense (points), and the #8 pass defense (by opp QB rating). So they did a great job with the secondary, as it turned out.

Crazy.
 
Last edited:

rodderick

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Apr 24, 2009
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Don’t know where to put this but it involves the great Pats teams so…. Here you go.

https://nesn.com/2023/03/devin-mccourty-shares-eye-opening-steve-belichick-story/

Steve Belichick’s promotion to safeties coach in 2016 was…. Crazy, apparently. This is a fascinating story. Long and short of it is that he admitted to the players that he had no clue what he was doing. And so he took the approach of a collaborative effort with the safeties.

That year, by the way, they had the #1 defense (points), and the #8 pass defense (by opp QB rating). So they did a great job with the secondary, as it turned out.

Crazy.
This story makes me appreciate Steve Belichick and those defensive backs more and Bill less, honestly. Maybe there's some merit to this "sink or swim" approach and I have no clue if that's how he generally promotes assistants who aren't his sons but it's a bad look to me.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Oct 1, 2015
22,205
This story makes me appreciate Steve Belichick and those defensive backs more and Bill less, honestly. Maybe there's some merit to this "sink or swim" approach and I have no clue if that's how he generally promotes assistants who aren't his sons but it's a bad look to me.
Agreed.

Unless…. Bill knows his son so well that he knew he’d take the right approach, and knew that his group of veteran safeties would be able to work it all out.
 

Ralphwiggum

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What an absurd story. I've written extensively here about the issues related to nepotism so I won't go down that road again. Let's just say the fact that it seems to have worked out this time doesn't fill me with warm and fuzzies about BB.

Edit: I do agree that it makes me think more highly of Steve, though.
 

InstaFace

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Sep 27, 2016
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Every positional coach had their "first actual coach role" at some point, after being an assistant in some capacity. Coaches don't come pre-minted with experience, they gain it, and at some point they didn't have any, but were given the job anyway because the boss thought they'd be up to it. All you can ask of them as they figure out the job is humility and hard work.
 

rodderick

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Every positional coach had their "first actual coach role" at some point, after being an assistant in some capacity. Coaches don't come pre-minted with experience, they gain it, and at some point they didn't have any, but were given the job anyway because the boss thought they'd be up to it. All you can ask of them as they figure out the job is humility and hard work.
Sure, but do you think this particular story would have been notable to McCourty were it not out of the norm?
 

JohnnyTheBone

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May 28, 2007
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This story makes me appreciate Steve Belichick and those defensive backs more and Bill less, honestly. Maybe there's some merit to this "sink or swim" approach and I have no clue if that's how he generally promotes assistants who aren't his sons but it's a bad look to me.
"I choose sink!" - Matt Patricia
 

lexrageorge

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Jul 31, 2007
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Sure, but do you think this particular story would have been notable to McCourty were it not out of the norm?
Maybe what was notable is that Steve actually admitted he was an inexperienced coach taking over the secondary. Whereas most new secondary coaches are not in a position to admit that to their players, even if it is accurate. Steve obviously knew enough about coaching to figure things out quickly.
 
Aug 9, 2015
1,362
Mayo as HC, with Steve as (official) DC for the first few years after BB retires. We could do worse. And by then Josh will probably be available again!
 

Archer1979

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It's out of the norm for a coach to hire his son. That alone would have been remarkable even if he were god's gift to safeties-coaching from day 1.
When it comes to Bill Belichick and hiring his son, it reminds me of something that a very high ranking manager said to me many, many years ago... "What's the point in having power if you can't abuse it?"

Bill gets a pass on this one for me.
 

Shelterdog

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I do think people are missing the point of the story--McCourty isn't saying BB put a bad coach in place, he's saying BB put a great coach in place. His point is Steve was smart to be honest about his experience and struck up a collaborative venture with smart veteran players and that was absolutely the way for a young coach to handle it, and that Steve's honesty openness and emotional intelligence were a reason he came to excel even if he wasn't the world's leading expert on secondary coaching.

Frankly it seems like a huge contrast to what we know about Patricia and especially Judge on the offensive side where based on the stories we have the coaches were absolutely imposing a top down, it's our way or the highway on reasonably smart players who weren't having it.
 

Ralphwiggum

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I do think people are missing the point of the story--McCourty isn't saying BB put a bad coach in place, he's saying BB put a great coach in place. His point is Steve was smart to be honest about his experience and struck up a collaborative venture with smart veteran players and that was absolutely the way for a young coach to handle it, and that Steve's honesty openness and emotional intelligence were a reason he came to excel even if he wasn't the world's leading expert on secondary coaching.

Frankly it seems like a huge contrast to what we know about Patricia and especially Judge on the offensive side where based on the stories we have the coaches were absolutely imposing a top down, it's our way or the highway on reasonably smart players who weren't having it.
I agree this was the point of McCourtey's story. But, this can be true and you can also be put off by BB elevating his son to a position he was admittedly not ready for. Nepotism sucks, whether it ultimately works out or not.
 

Shelterdog

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I agree this was the point of McCourtey's story. But, this can be true and you can also be put off by BB elevating his son to a position he was admittedly not ready for. Nepotism sucks, whether it ultimately works out or not.
Honestly in the NFL context it is so prevalent that it only sucks when it doesn't work out. And even then not a real hinderance to winning--andy reid hires his convicted felon kid, his kid drives drunk and puts a small child into a coma, no one gives a shit and not only to the chiefs keep winning but they don't even take a reputational hit, with andy reid continuing to be in commercials and promo videos the nfl's wonderful walrusy funny fat guy.

I'm not going to get upset about nepotism in a league where a lot of the best coaches--Shannahan, McVey--are big time nepo babies.
 

rodderick

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Honestly in the NFL context it is so prevalent that it only sucks when it doesn't work out. And even then not a real hinderance to winning--andy reid hires his convicted felon kid, his kid drives drunk and puts a small child into a coma, no one gives a shit and not only to the chiefs keep winning but they don't even take a reputational hit, with andy reid continuing to be in commercials and promo videos the nfl's wonderful walrusy funny fat guy.

I'm not going to get upset about nepotism in a league where a lot of the best coaches--Shannahan, McVey--are big time nepo babies.
But Tim McVay didn't coach in the NFL, Sean didn't coach under his grandfather and Kyle Shanahan didn't coach under his dad and tried to establish himself elsewhere precisely for this reason. Nepotism is rampant in the NFL, but even in the field it's rare to see a son be co-DC under his father.

Now, I'm a huge Steve Belichick fan and think the defense became much better when he gained more responsibilities and love everything I've heard from and about the guy, so it's not like it hurt the Patriots. It's just unusual even in the NFL context.
 

Van Everyman

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But Tim McVay didn't coach in the NFL, Sean didn't coach under his grandfather and Kyle Shanahan didn't coach under his dad and tried to establish himself elsewhere precisely for this reason. Nepotism is rampant in the NFL, but even in the field it's rare to see a son be co-DC under his father.

Now, I'm a huge Steve Belichick fan and think the defense became much better when he gained more responsibilities and love everything I've heard from and about the guy, so it's not like it hurt the Patriots. It's just unusual even in the NFL context.
 

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