Celebrating What Is

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback ever.

I don't know why, but I think this one impresses me most of all: Brady has played in 14 postseasons. Only twice have the Pats been one-and-done. Winning four championships is a sign of greatness and stability, but winning games in 12 of 14 playoff appearances shows a remarkable level of consistency that the NFL has never seen. Peyton Manning played in 15 NFL playoffs. He was out in his opening round in nine of those. NINE TIMES.
 

Tony C

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Player gets signed by a New England team after his previous team was ready to give up on him. Puts up great stats and winds up as a star performer in getting the team a chance at a ring. Where have I heard this story before?
Coincidence that Hogan was disposed of/picked up cheaply from the Bills, as was Branch on the other side of the ball. I think not.
 

BigSoxFan

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The writer actually says hes the greatest playoff quarterback ever, but says he would rather have Peyton, among others.

"For my money, give me Peyton any day; maybe Unitas, Marino, Montana and Elway, too. Brady is up there, though, and those rings certainly count for something, just not everything."
The great QB debate is a fruitless endeavor but I really can't see an argument for any of those guys over Brady. His regular season stats are ridiculous, especially since 2007.
 

Omar's Wacky Neighbor

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Leaving in a bit to the studio :)
An entire generation is entering driver's ed to get a license and has never lived in a time where the Patriots have not been legitimate contenders (almost assuming that football season for the Patriots automatically extended into January and sometimes February). Someone previously brought up the fact that they have not played a meaningless game since December 2000....so these people may actually drive a car and have basically never even seen a Patriots game with nothing at stake.
That's my younger son exactly. Every time we watch the Pats, I try to get thru to him how this isnt supposed to happen, that the NFL is designed to simply not allow for this, and how he's unlikely to see something like this again in his lifetime. His perspective is completely, yet joyfully, warped.

He then turns down the dasm music and gets off my lawn.......
 

Devizier

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ANY/A+ passes the eye test, as far as I'm concerned:

Young 123
Montana 121
Manning 120
Rodgers 120
Staubach 120
Marino 119
Brady 118

Not a whole lot of difference in that group.

Throw in the postseason accomplishments and I think that puts Brady over the top.
 

Saints Rest

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The thing about Brady that really makes him the GOAT in my mind is that he excels in almost any metric. He's not #1 in every one, sure, but he's probably top 5-10 in every one.
  • Peak single season? Yep.
  • Longevity? Yep.
  • Championships? Yep.
  • Counting stats? Yep.
  • Percentage stats? Yep.
  • Traditional stats? Yep.
  • Advanced stats? Yep.
  • Winning pct regular season? Yep.
  • Winning pct playoffs? Yep.
Other than running, I can't think of a single metric or group of metrics where he is not top 5-10.
 

joe dokes

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About running, not sure if there is a sneak stat, but he's close to GOAT in that too.
A reasonable proxy for that could be %% of runs that get 1st downs.
I also think sneaking ability is often overlooked. Bledsoe, for example, was terrible at it. Too upright, took too long. Brady gets incredibly low for a guy his size and build and hits the chosen gap quickly.
 

johnmd20

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The writer actually says hes the greatest playoff quarterback ever, but says he would rather have Peyton, among others.

"For my money, give me Peyton any day; maybe Unitas, Marino, Montana and Elway, too. Brady is up there, though, and those rings certainly count for something, just not everything."
Needless to say, this is ridiculous. So Brady wins games that are the most important and for his money he'd rather have Peyton, a great winner of unimportant games?
 

Lowrielicious

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Needless to say, this is ridiculous. So Brady wins games that are the most important and for his money he'd rather have Peyton, a great winner of unimportant games?
The most important games against the best competition at the time. But "If you had to pick one player to play one game," then give me a bunch of other guys instead, for some inexplicable reason.
 

johnmd20

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The most important games against the best competition at the time. But "If you had to pick one player to play one game," then give me a bunch of other guys instead, for some inexplicable reason.
Now the rings mean nothing. The playoff wins mean nothing. The longevity means nothing. Playing a decade and a half at peak performance means nothing. He's rather have Peyton, a guy who not only went one and done in 9 playoffs, but I'm sure he was favored in 66% or 77% of those games.
 

E5 Yaz

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Now the rings mean nothing. The playoff wins mean nothing. The longevity means nothing. Playing a decade and a half at peak performance means nothing. He's rather have Peyton, a guy who not only went one and done in 9 playoffs, but I'm sure he was favored in 66% or 77% of those games.
Meet Chris Chase

http://www.cjr.org/full_court_press/the_most_hated_blogger_in_amer.php

There are multiple blogs and such about how bad people think the guy is. Bottom line: Provocateur knows demeaning Brady will lead to multiple clicks.
 

slamminsammya

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Does anyone know if the ANY stat adjusts for dome versus non dome? Brady Manning is an interesting case of that statistics phenomenon whose name eludes me. Brady has a better QB rating in domes and is also better outside, but his overall rating is lower since he plays more games outside and all qb ratings are lower outside.
 

Captaincoop

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The writer actually says hes the greatest playoff quarterback ever, but says he would rather have Peyton, among others.

"For my money, give me Peyton any day; maybe Unitas, Marino, Montana and Elway, too. Brady is up there, though, and those rings certainly count for something, just not everything."
What standard is he using here? Give you Peyton for what, if you need to put up big numbers in a meaningless September game against the Titans?

I can understand someone saying "Hey, one game against the Martians for control of Earth, I trust Montana more than Brady". That's really subjective, and I disagree, but I understand it.

In what scenario would you want Dan Marino or Elway over Brady? Maybe they'd be more fun to play with in a video game?
 

Ed Hillel

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I can understand someone saying "Hey, one game against the Martians for control of Earth, I trust Montana more than Brady". That's really subjective, and I disagree, but I understand it.
I can't even understand that. People seem to forget that every playoff game is equally as important in the moment as the Superbowl. You lose, you're done. Montana losing sooner in the playoffs doesn't make him more clutch in the playoffs.
 

Curt S Loew

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Close but not quite. I found that one too, but Brady's has a different neckline and it's short-sleeve which I think is the best part in my mind
Cmon. It's the same one. Brady just customized it like his coach does. Neckline is ripped and sleeves ripped and/or rolled.
 

cmurphycode

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Does anyone know if the ANY stat adjusts for dome versus non dome? Brady Manning is an interesting case of that statistics phenomenon whose name eludes me. Brady has a better QB rating in domes and is also better outside, but his overall rating is lower since he plays more games outside and all qb ratings are lower outside.
Simpson's paradox - worth a read, good stuff.
 

Stitch01

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ANY/A+ passes the eye test, as far as I'm concerned:

Young 123
Montana 121
Manning 120
Rodgers 120
Staubach 120
Marino 119
Brady 118

Not a whole lot of difference in that group.

Throw in the postseason accomplishments and I think that puts Brady over the top.
Yeah, I think if the question is "if I could pick any QB at their peak for one game who is it?" there are still a handful of pretty defensible answers
If the question is "who had the best career of any quarterback in NFL history?"...we're getting pretty close to Tom Brady being the definitive answer.
 

snowmanny

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What Super Bowl era NFL quarterback has accomplished the most? is pretty much inarguable.
What Super Bowl era NFL quarterback had the best run with a single team? is pretty much inarguable.
What Super Bowl era NFL coach accomplished the most in his career? is pretty much inarguable.

Also, the Patriots went a whole calendar year without losing a game.

Twice.
 

E5 Yaz

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I can't believe people are spending this much time debating the opinion of a blogger-turned-columnist who is notorious for trying to get fans riled up
 

DJnVa

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Does anyone know if the ANY stat adjusts for dome versus non dome? Brady Manning is an interesting case of that statistics phenomenon whose name eludes me. Brady has a better QB rating in domes and is also better outside, but his overall rating is lower since he plays more games outside and all qb ratings are lower outside.
It's very easy to take Brady's dome stats and pro-rate them out to the number of games Manning played in a dome...
 

Leather

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People are really into narrative with QBs, and in that sense, Brady's early mega-success (2001-2004) actually works against him for most of the talking heads, and of course there's no way that was sustainable.

But if you took Brady's career and reversed it... Assume he loses next weekend. In that case, you have a QB who loses a Super Bowl very early in his career, then loses the AFC game, then Wins the SB, then has a run as a statistically dominant QB who is excruciatingly close to winning multiple SBs but not quite fulfilling his early promise but is still a no doubt great, and then closes out his career winning 3/4 Super Bowls as his stats wane due to age.

There's nobody on the planet that doesn't call that guy the best ever, most clutch, best playoff QB, etc... that's basically Elway's career except twice as good, or Rodgers' career if he wins 3 more SBs over the next 5 years.

It's all the narrative. Its nonsensical.
 

koufax32

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It's very easy to take Brady's dome stats and pro-rate them out to the number of games Manning played in a dome...
Not to sound like an apologist but you still aren't comparing apples to apples. Theoretically, a vast majority of PM's dome starts are in relative friendly silence while all of TB12's are in some level of hostile noise. Hard to quantify, I know. It's a legit thing though as point spreads take those differences into account. How does 3 team points translate to QB rating? I have no idea.
 

BigSoxFan

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People are really into narrative with QBs, and in that sense, Brady's early mega-success (2001-2004) actually works against him for most of the talking heads, and of course there's no way that was sustainable.

But if you took Brady's career and reversed it... Assume he loses next weekend. In that case, you have a QB who loses a Super Bowl very early in his career, then loses the AFC game, then Wins the SB, then has a run as a statistically dominant QB who is excruciatingly close to winning multiple SBs but not quite fulfilling his early promise but is still a no doubt great, and then closes out his career winning 3/4 Super Bowls as his stats wane due to age.

There's nobody on the planet that doesn't call that guy the best ever, most clutch, best playoff QB, etc... that's basically Elway's career except twice as good, or Rodgers' career if he wins 3 more SBs over the next 5 years.

It's all the narrative. Its nonsensical.
Absolutely. Before 2014, the narrative was that it's been X years since Brady won a SB. From a narrative standpoint, he would have been better off spreading out his first 3 SB wins to, say, 2001, 2004, 2007 instead of 3 in 4 years.

Ultimately, this best QB discussion is so pointless. If someone wants to say Montana was better than Brady, I'll disagree but it's not like they're "wrong". The only time I'll stop them is if they go the Marshall Faulk route and penalize Brady for losing 2 SBs by 2 rather flukish endings.

And for me it's not even the SBs. The 11 AFCCG in 15 years as a starter in a league of such parity is so good it's hard to even fathom. And making 6 in-a-row after the 2010 season when fans were starting to pour dirt on the dynasty is such an amazing accomplishment.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Maybe
I don't think so, but if he did he had them hemmed.
The collar opening is distinctly different as well.
And I think the material may be different.
Zoom in on the picture. If you can't see that the sleeves are rolled/tucked under, I'd ask what you think that 3 inch bulge in material is doing there.
 

Pxer

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I'd be curious to see TB12's dome games vs. Peyton's AWAY dome games. Of course the sample is less meaningful, but it's a more apples-to-apples comparison.
 

Saints Rest

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Zoom in on the picture. If you can't see that the sleeves are rolled/tucked under, I'd ask what you think that 3 inch bulge in material is doing there.
I agree with you that the sleeves are tweaked. But that's not a long-sleeve amount of fabric tucked up. The right arm sleeve is flipped up/out; the left arm one may be tucked under. And he's wearing some sort of under-shirt -- looks like one of those UnderArmour style.

I've written to NFL Shops customer service about it. Of course, they need 2-3 days to find out if there is a short-sleeve version. <shaking head>
 

Curt S Loew

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I agree with you that the sleeves are tweaked. But that's not a long-sleeve amount of fabric tucked up. The right arm sleeve is flipped up/out; the left arm one may be tucked under. And he's wearing some sort of under-shirt -- looks like one of those UnderArmour style.

I've written to NFL Shops customer service about it. Of course, they need 2-3 days to find out if there is a short-sleeve version. <shaking head>
High level analysis going on with this. As I said upthread, he just "customized" the long sleeve one. Did you write the ProShop about getting this short sleeve model?

 

Saints Rest

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High level analysis going on with this. As I said upthread, he just "customized" the long sleeve one. Did you write the ProShop about getting this short sleeve model?

High-level analysis indeed! It's what we do around here on stupid pics.
But no, because I didn't think that hoodie looked like anything I would want to wear, partially because of the color, but also the fabric looks heavier, the hood bulkier, and the sleeves being obviously torn is not what I would want to wear.
Whatever. I'd like to get a new Pats hoodie, and thought the one he wore on Monday looked like something I would want to own but could not find it.
It's probably the one that was linked upthread, modified by TB or by one of Giselle's stylist friends, but it looks different to me. THat's all. No biggie.
 

The Needler

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E5 Yaz

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This part was funny ... unless you're an agent

When prospective players visit Foxborough, they express to their agents a sense of fear, but often leave feeling as if they have just met the lone coach who understands their true purpose on a football field.

“With players, there’s a tremendous amount of intimidation because of how the media portrays the team as the evil empire,” says one agent. “But once they meet them, they freaking love [Belichick]. They’re blown away by his personality and how much he knows about the player and his skillset.”
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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There are so many delicious sour grapes in that article about negotiating with Belichick. I love how Klemko just desperately wants it all to sound so nefarious, and then you get this paragraph:

“With players, there’s a tremendous amount of intimidation because of how the media portrays the team as the evil empire,” says one agent. “But once they meet them, they freaking love [Belichick]. They’re blown away by his personality and how much he knows about the player and his skillset.”

Everyone - the media, agents, players on the outside looking in - want to make Belichick into some kind of evil dude, because otherwise they'd just have to accept that he's a better coach, knows more about football, and actually values the things that create winning football teams in a way that none of those clowns do.

Yeah, he doesn't fly around and wine and dine, because if a player chooses a team because of being wine and dined, he doesn't want them.

And Klemko sort of glosses over it, and Watson pouts about it, but he ACTUALLY DOES HAND OUT MARKET VALUE CONTRACTS, YOU DICKS - just only for the players that actually deserve them. Yeah, you have to go somewhere else to find someone dumb enough to pay you Ben. Lol boo hoo.
 

edmunddantes

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From Pioli to Charlie Weis to Josh McDaniels to Romeo Crennel, the list of former Belichick disciples who have stumbled after leaving Foxborough only enhances Belichick’s leverage over the rest of the league.
Several names left off this list that are doing well, and one on the list that is doing well helping out one of the ones left off the list. Think the team is even in the Super Bowl this year.

Should have warned me that it was Klemko article though.