That was then: Celebrating what was

djbayko

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127 Most wins in a decade 2010-present.

Previously set by the 2000-2009 Patriots
Since decades beginning with zero based on the birth year of some chill dude are arbitrary, I set out to find the most productive 10 year span of this Patriots run:

2003-2012 (140 wins, avg. 14 wins / season).

The Patriots can match this total with a SB win and a match of this season's 11-5 record next year (with no playoffs). Two SB wins and a perfect season gets them to 148.
 

Carlos Cowart

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"But this is an imitation league. The second someone succeeds with something new or different, somebody else figures out how to do it or defeat it."

Emphasis mine. I think this is in large part why the Pats have been successful - they capitalize on it being an imitation league. If the Pats win doing something either innovative or throwback then other teams will copy it and/or be looking for it. And then the Pats change things up the next week while other teams try to implement/defend what they did last week and the Pats move on to something else. I think Belichick has figured out that no matter how good you are at playing one game plan the league will catch up and beat you, so he finds smart, versatile players who can adapt to new plans quickly and catch opponents on their heels so they can be up by a couple scores at half before the other team knows what hit them.

The Pats game plan against the Chargers was time of possession - take the kick after the flip in an unBelichickien fashion - and then run it down the throat of LAC, keep their D on the field for 7 minutes and then bully a tired defense for the rest of the game. And it worked.

KC has a similarly explosive offense you would want to keep on the sideline. Does anyone have any confidence on whether Belichick would take or defer the kick in that game? (Bill Burr voice) No. He's scheming for the next game and will defer. Or not. Either way we should be thankful he's making the decisions.
 

kelpapa

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Tom Brady has played in the NFL for 19 years. He's been a starter for 18 years, including his injured 2008 season. He's played in the playoffs in 16 of those seasons. He's going to be playing in his 7th road playoff game on Sunday. He's played in 8 super bowls.

Tom Brady has played in more super bowls than road playoff games, despite playing in the playoffs in 16 seasons.
 

simplyeric

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Here's hoping!!!

Though I always thought decades should start with the xxx1 year and end on the xxX0 year...

Prosit!
Nonsense, when you start counting, do you start with the number 1 or the number 0?

...uh, hang on a minute...
When you count time, it would indeed be 0-9, because you don’t actually start at 1 you start after 1. If you’re timing an event it’s not like the gun goes off and it’s already 1. The gun goes off and you wait a full second and then the clock registers ‘1’.

Like, your first bday is after you’ve been alive for a year. If you were born on jan 1 2000, on dec 31 2009 you would have lived for a decade.

(Not that it matters.)
 

snowmanny

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When the NFL puts together the all-decade teams they run 0-9 (e.g. 2000-2009) so this would be consistent with that list.
 

SumnerH

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This is not the way a century is counted. 1900 is the last year of the 19th century, not the first year of the 20th.
Even technically, this depends on which century you're talking about. As wiki notes, “The 20th (twentieth) century was a century that began on January 1, 1901 and ended on December 31, 2000. It was the tenth and final century of the 2nd millennium. It is distinct from the century known as the 1900s which began on January 1, 1900 and ended on December 31, 1999.”

And in real life practice it doesn't matter. People celebrate round numbers, technicality be damned.
 

Ralphwiggum

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Edelman with a real chance to move up significantly in all time post-season receiving yards. Also notable, Gonk's catch on Sunday against the Chargers was the 69th of his post-season career.

 

BaseballJones

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What's totally nuts is that Edelman's had a long and very successful postseason career. Basically the #2 playoff receiver of ALL TIME.

And look how big the gap is still between him and #1 (Rice).

(Though I will say...about half the seasons as Rice)
 

pappymojo

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1920 was the first year of the American Professional Football Association. Maybe that's why they count it like they do.
 

bakahump

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but Belichick's ability to spot things that a player can do well, which make him undervalued
I often wonder if this a big part of it.

While some coaches/front offices sit around and say "Jones cant Run a fast enough 40 or is not good at the Skinny Posts", I wonder if BB and the Culture of the Pats is more akin to "Jones gets great separation on comebacks and short curls. He would do well as a Y in our system".

Of course you then need to have the diligence to keep players in those specific roles (unless or until they can prove to do more).

That may explain why others on his tree dont approach the same level of success. You have established players you (need to) kowtow to even if they are not nearly as successful as they seem, and you cant afford to "waste" a draft pick (or time) on players who cant be expected to do everything you need them too do. So you expect them to do it all, and are often disappointed. Those things add up and suddenly your out.

IOW what we have heard quite a bit "Only Ask you players to do what they can do well, and dont expect them to do what they might be able to".

Its a weird almost "hippy/cuum-by-ya outlook" on players and their implementation into a game plan. Realistic, but sprinkled with educated optimism in the aspect of "Wynn is so good at such and such that he could transition to tackle".

Maybe thats why Carroll is similar.
 

DJnVa

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1920 was the first year of the American Professional Football Association. Maybe that's why they count it like they do.
It's as simple as counting it when the third digit clicks over. I think we're all making this too difficult. It's pablum for mass consumption.

1989 to 1990
 

Saints Rest

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Even technically, this depends on which century you're talking about. As wiki notes, “The 20th (twentieth) century was a century that began on January 1, 1901 and ended on December 31, 2000. It was the tenth and final century of the 2nd millennium. It is distinct from the century known as the 1900s which began on January 1, 1900 and ended on December 31, 1999.”

And in real life practice it doesn't matter. People celebrate round numbers, technicality be damned.
I think it's even simpler: people talk about "the 80's" or "the 50's;" when they do, it makes sense to assume that the year that first uses that name (i.e. 1980 or 1950) is the beginning of that timeframe. It would be counterintuitive to think that 1990 (Nineteen-Ninety) is part of "the eighties."
 

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Back to the secret of their success, and someone touched on an underrated aspect: the front office/ownership. Not only does Kraft stay out of the way of player decisions for the most part, he also spends the money on support stuff such as facilities, team jet, etc, that make it a first-class organization.

So you look at the Pats over the last 18 (!) years, and you are combining the following key elements, all of which are inarguably top 3 if not top, in class: QB, Head Coach, Owner. Most teams can only lay claim to a top 3 slot in one of those categories most of the time, two in a good year. And none can lay claim to 18 years of continuity of top 3 level, in almost any category, and certainly not in 2 or more categories.
 

BigSoxFan

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Edelman with a real chance to move up significantly in all time post-season receiving yards. Also notable, Gonk's catch on Sunday against the Chargers was the 69th of his post-season career.

So he’s a torn ACL away from already being #2 on the list. Feel like this is going to be a good trivia question once he gets there.
 

Valek123

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One amazing thing about the success in 2018 to me is how the draft class had exactly 2 players make any contributions, while the vast majority of the others have been injured. An infusion of talent will come next year through health and the next draft and the biggest obstacle may be to find space for them.
 

djbayko

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When you count time, it would indeed be 0-9, because you don’t actually start at 1 you start after 1. If you’re timing an event it’s not like the gun goes off and it’s already 1. The gun goes off and you wait a full second and then the clock registers ‘1’.

Like, your first bday is after you’ve been alive for a year. If you were born on jan 1 2000, on dec 31 2009 you would have lived for a decade.

(Not that it matters.)
But we’re not timing anything in this case. We’re just talking about an arbitrarily defined 10-year block of time. And the NFL doesn’t go back to Jesus’ birth, so we don’t have to worry anout absolute zero as in your argument. IMO what matters most is what society thinks of when they say “the 1990s”, and that would certainly not include the 1989 calendar year for most people,

But the NFL has defined it, and they get to do it any way they want because it’s their show.
 

Saints Rest

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Edelman with a real chance to move up significantly in all time post-season receiving yards. Also notable, Gonk's catch on Sunday against the Chargers was the 69th of his post-season career.

A 100-yd game for Jules will also move him up to 8th overall for total yards from scrimmage.
With a solid, but not great game, Gronk could move up to 11th place in yards. A great game could move him up to 9th. And one TD will move him into 2nd place all-time for playoff receiving TDs, and a tie for 5th (with Marcus Allen) for playoff TD's overall.
Two TD's for James White would move him into a tie for 12th (with 8 different guys) for playoff TD's overall.
One 2-point conversion for JW would move him into a tie for 1st (with Kevin Faulk and TO).
 

InstaFace

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Also: LOL Jerry Rice. His relative dominance as a WR is unbelievable. Downright Ruthian.
Given the gap between him and 2nd place in most of the relevant categories, I'd offer the comparison is more like Cy Young. Ruth had a few people who've been comparable in the last century, but Cy Young's counting stats appear to be from a different universe entirely, and same with Jerry Rice, even though his came in a far more competitive environment with mostly a modern context.

Sure, he's a putz. Ted Williams was a putz. Bonds was/is a putz. You don't get that far off the bell curve without probably being a little weird.
 

Ralphwiggum

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Given the gap between him and 2nd place in most of the relevant categories, I'd offer the comparison is more like Cy Young. Ruth had a few people who've been comparable in the last century, but Cy Young's counting stats appear to be from a different universe entirely, and same with Jerry Rice, even though his came in a far more competitive environment with mostly a modern context.

Sure, he's a putz. Ted Williams was a putz. Bonds was/is a putz. You don't get that far off the bell curve without probably being a little weird.
There are similar gaps between Brady and 2nd place in post-season passing yards and passing TDs.
 

InstaFace

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sure, but I consider that categorically different than gaps in career stats, where everyone has the same opportunities for the same denominator (or longevity in the case of counting stats).
 

InstaFace

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I guess I took the comparison about Ruth to be about him towering above contemporaries in the matter of career stats (Both counting and rate), for decades. If it was about Ruth's postseason stats, my apologies.
 

Super Nomario

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One amazing thing about the success in 2018 to me is how the draft class had exactly 2 players make any contributions, while the vast majority of the others have been injured. An infusion of talent will come next year through health and the next draft and the biggest obstacle may be to find space for them.
This is what we said before this season, too - and then it turned out Rivers, Garcia, Davis, Langi, (plus other young hurt guys like Mitchell, Valentine, Cyrus Jones, etc.) didn't do anything. So we'll see.
 

Valek123

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This is what we said before this season, too - and then it turned out Rivers, Garcia, Davis, Langi, (plus other young hurt guys like Mitchell, Valentine, Cyrus Jones, etc.) didn't do anything. So we'll see.
Agreed, jury is out. I'm most excited for Wynn(but Achilles injuries are problematic) and Bentley. But I agree completely, was excited about the last class that almost all flamed out.
 

Ale Xander

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FL encounter:

AX sees 2 Red Bull promo college girls handing out free Red Bull
AX asks them if he can have them, forgetting that he has Pats cap on

Girl 1: Go Patriots!
AX: Go Patriots, are you from New England?
Girl 1: No, I've just been a fan all my life.
AX is tongue-tied
Girls walk away.
AX realizes, too late, that for the entirety, or close thereto, of Girl 1's life, Tom Brady has been the QB and BB has been the HC.

D'uh
 

Ralphwiggum

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That was awesome, thanks for posting that.

Seems Ty's only regret is not agreeing to that one last contract with the Pats. I guess he didn't mind so much that the practices aren't much fun.
 

BaseballJones

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That is a great read. I had no idea just how badly he wanted to be back in New England. I mean they all hate their coach and all, right? It was also insightful into the egos of these guys. He wanted to be back so badly but his ego couldn't handle getting paid somewhat (relatively) less to play for the Pats. So he gave up something he desperately wanted over some money that he didn't really need.

Fascinating stuff.
 

Deathofthebambino

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This was a letter Nate Solder wrote to the Pats after he signed with the Giants this past offseason. I hadn't seen it before, but just caught it after reading Ty Law's piece, so I figured I'd post it here too. He took the money and moved on too, but it doesn't appear that the "business-like" approach of the organization bothered him too much either.

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/nate-solder-patriots-giants-thank-you
 

tims4wins

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This was a letter Nate Solder wrote to the Pats after he signed with the Giants this past offseason. I hadn't seen it before, but just caught it after reading Ty Law's piece, so I figured I'd post it here too. He took the money and moved on too, but it doesn't appear that the "business-like" approach of the organization bothered him too much either.

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/nate-solder-patriots-giants-thank-you
I read this when it was published and again just now. I truly hope he is happy with his decision but I wonder if, if he were to be 100% truthful, he regrets it. As a Pats fan I am happy how it worked out anyway. But I still don’t understand what he was seeking in NY especially after what he wrote about Josh and Kraft. How could it get better than that? So ultimately it hard not to read this and be a bit cynical and think it was all about the benjamins, and he is trying to save face a bit without admitting he just took the biggest payday.
 

StupendousMan

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I read this when it was published and again just now. I truly hope he is happy with his decision but I wonder if, if he were to be 100% truthful, he regrets it. As a Pats fan I am happy how it worked out anyway. But I still don’t understand what he was seeking in NY especially after what he wrote about Josh and Kraft. How could it get better than that? So ultimately it hard not to read this and be a bit cynical and think it was all about the benjamins, and he is trying to save face a bit without admitting he just took the biggest payday.
I seem to recall that his son had a severe medical condition, and that moving to the Giants might put the family closer to some relevant medical specialists. Perhaps that had some part to play in his decision.
 

tims4wins

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I seem to recall that his son had a severe medical condition, and that moving to the Giants might put the family closer to some relevant medical specialists. Perhaps that had some part to play in his decision.
His son did have cancer and then it came back (unsure where that stands now) but it’s not like NY has better hospitals than Boston. He specifically wrote in the article that going to a team near good medical facilities was important and it ruled out several teams, but he didn’t make it sound like he specifically went to the Giants in order to get better / closer medical care for his son.
 

NortheasternPJ

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Zolak was telling a story about a game they had against the Bills when Parcells was coach and they were in the meeting room going over game plans. Parcells was quizzing players on assignments etc. he gets to Ty Law and asks him and he just said

“Shut Eric Moulds fucking down” and just walked out of the meeting. Freaking hilarious.
 

joe dokes

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I read this when it was published and again just now. I truly hope he is happy with his decision but I wonder if, if he were to be 100% truthful, he regrets it. As a Pats fan I am happy how it worked out anyway. But I still don’t understand what he was seeking in NY especially after what he wrote about Josh and Kraft. How could it get better than that? So ultimately it hard not to read this and be a bit cynical and think it was all about the benjamins, and he is trying to save face a bit without admitting he just took the biggest payday.
Perhaps. And that's my usual default position. But I think these decisions are much more difficult than we can imagine. We break it into relatively defined spaces, like "winning" and "money." But I think we might shortchange some things that football players actually have in common with "normal" people, like "doing something different," or "taking on a new challenge" or "metro NY is better than metro Boston/Providence."
 

tims4wins

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Perhaps. And that's my usual default position. But I think these decisions are much more difficult than we can imagine. We break it into relatively defined spaces, like "winning" and "money." But I think we might shortchange some things that football players actually have in common with "normal" people, like "doing something different," or "taking on a new challenge" or "metro NY is better than metro Boston/Providence."
Yep, could be. And if he thought moving was better for his family then absolutely good for him. Just wondering how he feels a year later.
 

InstaFace

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Probably pretty good, because his performance appears to have dropped and I doubt Belichick would be super happy with him at his present contract or even a slight discount off of it. I wish him the best and he was great for us but I think it was the time to move on.

The Ty Law piece is great, but the cynical side of me thinks it's mostly just a ploy to win sympathy from HOF voters, given the timing. I love the guy, though, and will read pretty much any war stories from the Kraft era happily.
 

pappymojo

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A less cynical take is that as he is being considered for the Hall of Fame he is introspectively looking back on his career.
 

Soxy

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25 years ago Monday Kraft bought the team from Orthwein. The Athletic has the oral history. I really didn't know that we have the Jacksons to thank for helping Kraft get the team.

https://theathletic.com/772125/2019/01/18/the-inside-story-of-how-25-years-ago-robert-kraft-improbably-bought-the-patriots/
Every Pats fan should read this. It is amazing.
I just came into this thread to post this. What a fantastic read. I knew a good bit of the story (mainly how Kraft first bought up the land and then the stadium as a long-term plan to eventually buy the team) but there are some great quotes in here from a lot of the key players. Also serves as a reminder of just how dysfunctional the Patriots were before Bob Kraft arrived.

Carmen Policy: The Patriots, unfortunately, were really the weak link in the NFL chain of franchises. They were always problematic in terms of getting things done and smoothing out their operation and becoming financially viable.
Paul Tagliabue: I had come to Boston right after I became commissioner. Victor Kiam asked me to come up and talk to the business community about a new stadium. I had to introduce him to the mayor, Ray Flynn. That’s unusual. Normally, you’re introducing the new commissioner to the mayor. I had to introduce Victor to the mayor. The idea of absentee ownership was pretty stark with Victor. He had virtually no roots in the Boston area.
Tagliabue: It was pretty clear the team was struggling, to put it mildly, under the prior ownership. It was pretty clear once Orthwein came in that the stability of the franchise in New England was an issue.
From Kraft on, they basically turned from a laughing stock into what is arguably the model franchise for all of American professional sports. What this franchise has accomplished in the past 25 years is remarkable enough but it's even more incredible when you consider where they started from.

Drew Bledsoe: One of the most important things that he ever said to me, and this was after I left football and was in business, I asked him at one point, “What’s the one thing that’s allowed you to be so much better than everybody else?” And his answer has really been formative in the way I try to run our business. He said, “Everything. Everything we do, we’re trying to be better than everybody else in everything. From the way we analyze players, to the way we practice and coach, to the way that we eat, to the way that we travel, to the way that we take care of our players, to the way we take care of our retired players.” Every single thing they do, he’s trying to be the best in the world at it. And if he’s not the best in the world, he’s going to figure out how to be the best in the world at it.

Tagliabue: I think he’s been one of the most positive of a very small handful of owners over my 40 years of involvement in the league.