Celebrating What Is

RG33

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Time to rename this thread “Celebrating What Was” ?

Too soon?
 

tims4wins

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Week 17 2016. At Miami. Pats score to go up 19 with 5:33 left in the game. They go for 2. They run the same play that Dola converts in the Super Bowl 5 weeks later. Almost like they were giving it a test run.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Week 17 2016. At Miami. Pats score to go up 19 with 5:33 left in the game. They go for 2. They run the same play that Dola converts in the Super Bowl 5 weeks later. Almost like they were giving it a test run.
When people talk about 'running up the score' they forget about this aspect of it: they are always practicing for when they'll need to do something, or have a different player slot into a role, or manage a situation. It isn't random, and it isn't (at least usually, post-2007) for the purpose of showing anyone up it's about getting better at things they need to do
 
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I’m sure this is an odd place to put this, but...in the spirit of celebrating a life well lived, I wanted to mention this Patriots fan I met and watched Brady & Co. on a handful of occasions when I was living in Los Angeles. Sam Lloyd, as you’ll read here...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/doyouremember.com/117101/sam-lloyd-dead/amp?fbclid=IwAR0dopv23sbtTLiLSYzPeiNyosSU4w1iKMCzQuKAly-1gPZHiBgFdaYIk64
...was a character actor best known for roles on Scrubs and, one of my favorites, The West Wing. His combination of bizarre and deeply human shone on screen and on the bar stool, too. He loved the Pats and I enjoyed talking to him the handful of times I did during the first Dynasty years. He leaves behind a terrific legacy, a young family, and so many happy memories, I assume, from this fantastic run of a football team in his native New England.

RIP, Sam. Way too young.

Edit typos
 

Ale Xander

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BB is 82-34 vs. teams that made the playoffs the prior year. (1st in NFL, obviously)
 

DJnVa

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Both ESPN and NFL Network have Pats games on right now.

ESPN: 2009 vs. Bills--2 TDs in last 2 minutes to win. In red uniforms.
NFLN: 1994 vs. Dolphins--Bledsoe and Marino both throw for 400+.
 

nattysez

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Just a reminder that SB 51 is available on YT. Watching from the last ATL TD to the end just brightened my spirits.
 

BaseballJones

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Watching Arthur Blank and his wife make their way down to the field to celebrate only to see things slip away until all was lost is just incredible. Never gets old.

And I’ve got nothing against the guy but man.
 

Soxy

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If you look closely you can actually pinpoint the exact moment his heart breaks in two


 

BigSoxFan

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Watching Arthur Blank and his wife make their way down to the field to celebrate only to see things slip away until all was lost is just incredible. Never gets old.

And I’ve got nothing against the guy but man.
Poor guy has definitely seen his share of high’s and Lowe’s
 

PedroKsBambino

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Just a reminder that SB 51 is available on YT. Watching from the last ATL TD to the end just brightened my spirits.
I still love the 4th down conversion to Amendola in third quarter. That is the truth beginning of the comeback...but isn’t shown very often in highlights
 

tims4wins

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I still love the 4th down conversion to Amendola in third quarter. That is the truth beginning of the comeback...but isn’t shown very often in highlights
I love that in the videos when they show guys mic'd up, they show Matt Ryan on the sideline saying something to the effect of "c'mon D, this is big" (prior to the 4th down play). With a 28-3 lead it didn't seem to be big. But it was.
 

Harry Hooper

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DeAngelo Hall regrets not signing with the Pats:

Hall wanted a similar contract to what the team offered Moss. However, that was not what the six-time Super Bowl champions were willing to give him.

"In my own contract discussions with the Pats, I recall Bill Belichick telling me they couldn't give me the contract Moss signed," Hall said. "Being a young and greedy knucklehead, I chose to stay in Washington on a long-term deal (six years, $54 million), which ultimately had me making the same per-year salary as Moss."
...
"Over a few million, I could've changed my legacy by being part of that dynasty," Hall reflected. "That was on the table for me, and I wish I would've made the decision to take less money and play for Belichick."

Story
 

SeoulSoxFan

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DeAngelo Hall regrets not signing with the Pats:
Me too. Here's the video of Hall talking about his decision. He also calls Brady the best he has ever faced:

https://www.nfl.com/news/analysts-biggest-career-regrets-passing-on-pats-super-bowl-drop
The 2009 NE team still had a good offense and having Hall would have made up for some of the defensive talent that was gone. That core-drain included Seymour & Vrabel (traded) plus Bruschi & Harrison (retired) in a certifiably awful off-season.

Now, imagine Hall instead of Wilhite or (the corpse of) Springs playing across another newcomer Leigh Bodden. It may have even made that soul-breaking Saints loss a bit more competitive.
 

Seels

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I think he means they were losing to the Ravens anyway but at least Brees doesn't throw for 50 yards to Meachem every time he tries.
 

DeadlySplitter

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Found this excerpt from the Athletic's retrospective on 28-3 (the 4th greatest comeback of all-time on their list of 40) pretty fun.

Shanahan needed some panic or at least some humility. In the days following the Super Bowl, somebody in the organization — somebody who loved Shanahan as an offensive coordinator and particularly the way he pushed to get the best out of Ryan — nonetheless said the coach’s ego got the best of him: “Kyle wanted to show everybody in the world what he could do against the great Bill Belichick.”
..

Quick story: Roddy White, a retired Falcons great and close friend of Jones, watched the Super Bowl from Las Vegas. (Long story.) He told me on a podcast the year after the game that if he was playing in that game, “I would’ve jumped offsides,” when Shanahan sent in the pass play on second-and-11, just to kill the call.

“I’m glad I wasn’t a part of that team because I probably literally would’ve fought him,” White said of Shanahan.

I did a long Q&A with White for The Athletic before he was inducted into the team’s Ring of Honor last season. He repeated some of the same comments he had made on the podcast but added this revelation: “Do you know how many calls I got after that game (from players)? They wanted to fight Kyle. I got at least eight calls — and those were just guys on the offensive side of the ball. They couldn’t believe it. Somebody should’ve jumped offsides.”
https://theathletic.com/1983368/2020/09/06/patriots-falcons-super-bowl-li-comeback/
 

InstaFace

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The 2004 red Sox were only #2? What could possibly top that in the annals of sports? Brooklyn 1955 maybe? Actually, I bet it's Cubs 2016, since that was in the WS not LCS.
 

Silverdude2167

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The 2004 red Sox were only #2? What could possibly top that in the annals of sports? Brooklyn 1955 maybe? Actually, I bet it's Cubs 2016, since that was in the WS not LCS.
If it is the Cubs I will be mad, not even close to as difficult and the games have nothing on the drama of 04.
 

Kliq

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Great video of highlights from the 2007 season. My god that offense was on another level. Moss was just an unstoppable machine in the red zone, Welker was always open, Stallworth and Gaffney feasted off of Moss' drawing attention. Defense was always very good and probably underrated historically.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j77t9xv72w
 

Euclis20

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Great video of highlights from the 2007 season. My god that offense was on another level. Moss was just an unstoppable machine in the red zone, Welker was always open, Stallworth and Gaffney feasted off of Moss' drawing attention. Defense was always very good and probably underrated historically.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3j77t9xv72w
The Defense was...fine. 4th in points allowed, 4th in yards allowed, 10th in DVOA. I'm not sure exactly how to rate a borderline top 5 defense for a super bowl losing team, especially when the bigger stories (Moss/Brady, the undefeated season) are much more interesting.

Thinking back over the course of the dynasty, one of the odd quirks that always makes me laugh is that in the first half of the dynasty the general logic is that the Pats won on the strength of their defense, while in the second half it was the offense that dominated. Yet, in the first 5 super bowls (with the possible exception of 04) the defense gave up the tying or go-ahead TD in the 4th quarter a whopping 6 times. The defense spent the first dozen years of the dynasty breaking at the end of nearly every super bowl, while the offense put together game-tying or go-ahead drives in the 4th quarter 5 separate times.

The second half of the dynasty always seemed focused on offense, and for sure they had two huge comebacks in 2014 and 2016, but the defense held the opponent scoreless in the 4th quarter of both of those years to allow the offense to complete their respective comebacks (not to mention the Butler pick), and then they won 2018 because the defense was incredible. Obviously 2017 is an exception, but as great as the defense always seemed to be in the earlier years, they always seemed smashed to bits by the end of the super bowl. 2007 just happened to be one of the few times the offense couldn't bail them out at the end (ah, dare to dream on Moss catching that 65 yard bomb in the final seconds).

*edit - they allowed 9 TDs in the 4th quarter of their first 5 super bowls (terrible), and only 1 TD in the 4th quarter of their next 4 super bowls (incredible).
 
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rodderick

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The Defense was...fine. 4th in points allowed, 4th in yards allowed, 10th in DVOA. I'm not sure exactly how to rate a borderline top 5 defense for a super bowl losing team, especially when the bigger stories (Moss/Brady, the undefeated season) are much more interesting.

Thinking back over the course of the dynasty, one of the odd quirks that always makes me laugh is that in the first half of the dynasty the general logic is that the Pats won on the strength of their defense, while in the second half it was the offense that dominated. Yet, in the first 5 super bowls (with the possible exception of 04) the defense gave up the tying or go-ahead TD in the 4th quarter a whopping 6 times. The defense spent the first dozen years of the dynasty breaking at the end of nearly every super bowl, while the offense put together game-tying or go-ahead drives in the 4th quarter 5 separate times.

The second half of the dynasty always seemed focused on offense, and for sure they had two huge comebacks in 2014 and 2016, but the defense held the opponent scoreless in the 4th quarter of both of those years to allow the offense to complete their respective comebacks (not to mention the Butler pick), and then they won 2018 because the defense was incredible. Obviously 2017 is an exception, but as great as the defense always seemed to be in the earlier years, they always seemed smashed to bits by the end of the super bowl. 2007 just happened to be one of the few times the offense couldn't bail them out at the end (ah, dare to dream on Moss catching that 65 yard bomb in the final seconds).

*edit - they allowed 9 TDs in the 4th quarter of their first 5 super bowls (terrible), and only 1 TD in the 4th quarter of their next 4 super bowls (incredible).
Wanna hear a funny stat I found the other day? From '01 to '06 the only year the Patriots defense ranked higher than the offense by DVOA was '03. In the whole Brady era it only happened one more time: last year.
 

johnmd20

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The Defense was...fine. 4th in points allowed, 4th in yards allowed, 10th in DVOA.
All of this to say, those statistics above prove the defense was more than. . . .fine. If they were 12th in yards and points is and 16th in DVOA it would be. . . .fine.
 

Kliq

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All of this to say, those statistics above prove the defense was more than. . . .fine. If they were 12th in yards and points is and 16th in DVOA it would be. . . .fine.
Yeah, those stats show they were pretty good; especially given the amount of big leads they were playing with which would have given them a big cushion to allow a bunch of garbage time points/yards. Watching the video, which goes over every game, I was surprised to see how many games the defense kind of won by forcing turnovers and holding down their opponents. I remember most games being like, 52-7 Patriots, but there were more games than I expected where the defense was the star of the game.
 

johnmd20

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Yeah, those stats show they were pretty good; especially given the amount of big leads they were playing with which would have given them a big cushion to allow a bunch of garbage time points/yards. Watching the video, which goes over every game, I was surprised to see how many games the defense kind of won by forcing turnovers and holding down their opponents. I remember most games being like, 52-7 Patriots, but there were more games than I expected where the defense was the star of the game.
In the first eight games, the smallest win the Pats had was by 17 points. Every other game was 21 points or more. They were crushing everyone. In the last 8, they had 4 one score wins. Some of those were very squeaked out.(Ravens and Giants in particular) It was completely different in the 2nd half.

But, overall, this was one of the best teams in NFL history. Except for, you know.
 

Euclis20

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All of this to say, those statistics above prove the defense was more than. . . .fine. If they were 12th in yards and points is and 16th in DVOA it would be. . . .fine.
We're talking about it 13 years later, from a historical perspective. Certainly those defensive numbers are very good, but there's no real reason to bring it up now. No one talks about that defense now, not because it was underrated historically but because there isn't anything noteworthy to discuss about that defense more than a decade later. The 07 team is known primarily for two things: The TD records with Brady/Moss, and almost having a perfect season. It's fine to ignore a defense that was somewhere in between "well above average" and "very good." It's not historically noteworthy, at all.

The 2006 defense was 2nd in yards allowed, 2nd in points allowed and 7th in DVOA. By any measure, that defense was stronger than the 07 version. Yet, nobody talks about that defense either. Nothing wrong with that.
 

johnmd20

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We're talking about it 13 years later, from a historical perspective. Certainly those defensive numbers are very good, but there's no real reason to bring it up now. No one talks about that defense now, not because it was underrated historically but because there isn't anything noteworthy to discuss about that defense more than a decade later. The 07 team is known primarily for two things: The TD records with Brady/Moss, and almost having a perfect season. It's fine to ignore a defense that was somewhere in between "well above average" and "very good." It's not historically noteworthy, at all.

The 2006 defense was 2nd in yards allowed, 2nd in points allowed and 7th in DVOA. By any measure, that defense was stronger than the 07 version. Yet, nobody talks about that defense either. Nothing wrong with that.
I got ya.