Celtics FA/Trade Rumors and News

Mooch

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This team is not winning a title without a top 10 player. It just doesn't happen in the NBA. Tatum is a top 25 guy and would make an excellent #2. Danny should be doing everything in his power to land an elite talent. Anything short of that, we're looking at another 'nice season' where it's clear they are not a real contender for a title.
I think that Tatum has "elite talent" potential and he's already knocking on the door of the NBA Top 10. He's the kind of player you build a franchise around.
 

Pollard's Spartan Beard

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This team is not winning a title without a top 10 player. It just doesn't happen in the NBA. Tatum is a top 25 guy and would make an excellent #2. Danny should be doing everything in his power to land an elite talent. Anything short of that, we're looking at another 'nice season' where it's clear they are not a real contender for a title.
Alternate take: Jayson Tatum already is a top 10 player. There is no other top 10 player available that would bump him to a #2. For me, last year was not just a 'nice season,' it was a fantastic season that was a joy to watch, especially compared to the Kyrie era and last season's Sox and Pats teams. Moreover, they were very much a real contender for a title last year, and make the Finals if Hayward doesn't get hurt.

If being one of the last four teams standing while having two of your core players suffer serious injuries doesn't make you a contender, I don't know what does. I don't think "contender" means Finals or bust.
 

nighthob

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This team is not winning a title without a top 10 player. It just doesn't happen in the NBA. Tatum is a top 25 guy and would make an excellent #2.
It's technically true that he's top 25, because he's a top 10 player. And he's more than a sidekick
 

luckiestman

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This team is not winning a title without a top 10 player. It just doesn't happen in the NBA. Tatum is a top 25 guy and would make an excellent #2. Danny should be doing everything in his power to land an elite talent. Anything short of that, we're looking at another 'nice season' where it's clear they are not a real contender for a title.

Tatum is a future MVP
 

BigSoxFan

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In his age 22 season, Tatum just alpha dog’d his team to ECF and averaged 26/10/5 while doing so. It’s remarkable to me that someone could call him only a Top 25 guy and #2.
 

BaseballJones

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In his age 22 season, Tatum just alpha dog’d his team to ECF and averaged 26/10/5 while doing so. It’s remarkable to me that someone could call him only a Top 25 guy and #2.
And if we go back to the discussion during the playoffs, it's amazing how good his "bad" games were. Did he make mistakes? Absolutely. Did he fall short at times? Yes. But even his bad games were fantastic when all is said and done.
 

Cellar-Door

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I wouldn't say Tatum is top 10 in the league right now, but he's on the track to be there in the next year or two.

(LeBron, AD, Kawhi, Giannis, Luka, Harden, Lillard, Jokic, Butler, Embiid would be my top 10 right now likely and that's only if we leave out the injured players in Steph and KD).
 

bakahump

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Hell Jalen has to be in the discussion for a top 40 guy doesnt he? (Like 35-40 range)
 

benhogan

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In his age 22 season, Tatum just alpha dog’d his team to ECF and averaged 26/10/5 while doing so. It’s remarkable to me that someone could call him only a Top 25 guy and #2.
Tatum also plays elite help defense...he's physically still growing, adding muscle every year. Works his tail off every offseason. The assist numbers jumped in the playoffs.

I'm old enough to remember his struggles at the rim last fall, which were corrected as the season moved along.

Betting on him being a top 10 player for the next decade is money good
 

Cesar Crespo

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I doubt there's much difference between the 2nd tier and after the top 10 or so, everyone's list would vary greatly.

I would say JB is an average number 2 in today's NBA, but he's a great 3. An average number 2 would put him anywhere from 30-60 with the chance to improve.
 

PC Drunken Friar

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Not to pick on you, BH, I've been reading way too much draft material the last week or so. I cannot wait for the "elite" trend to go away. It's a parody of itself at this point. It will be Wingspan-esque tonight.

In the Athletic preview, word elite was written like 27 times.
 

Jimbodandy

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Not to pick on you, BH, I've been reading way too much draft material the last week or so. I cannot wait for the "elite" trend to go away. It's a parody of itself at this point. It will be Wingspan-esque tonight.

In the Athletic preview, word elite was written like 27 times.
We should switch to "plus" like BA.
 

benhogan

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Not to pick on you, BH, I've been reading way too much draft material the last week or so. I cannot wait for the "elite" trend to go away. It's a parody of itself at this point. It will be Wingspan-esque tonight.

In the Athletic preview, word elite was written like 27 times.
haha...fair point...I'll confine it to my Tatum overexuberance
 

PC Drunken Friar

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haha...fair point...I'll confine it to my Tatum overexuberance
Haha, I think I went to write this like 5 times and every time I went to write it, another post came up with "elite" in it. You got the unlucky draw. From reading this forum, I have been educated greatly by posters that know so much more than I ...but I am just sick of that word!
 

Euclis20

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Tatum was 11th in All-NBA votes last year. Of the guys ahead of him, I don't think anyone in the league actually thinks Siakam is currently a better player, and given his age there isn't a team in the league that would take Chris Paul over Tatum, either. Curry and Durant will be back this year, and there are a few guys who got fewer votes than Tatum who are arguably better (George, Embiid, Butler, Towns) so it's not a lead-pipe cinch that he's a top 10 guy this year, but he's certainly top 15 and a decent bet to be top 10. Calling him top 25 is an insult at this point, as there isn't a reputable analyst in the league that would have him out of the top 20.
 

bosockboy

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I wouldn't say Tatum is top 10 in the league right now, but he's on the track to be there in the next year or two.

(LeBron, AD, Kawhi, Giannis, Luka, Harden, Lillard, Jokic, Butler, Embiid would be my top 10 right now likely and that's only if we leave out the injured players in Steph and KD).
I’d definitely take him over Embiid and probably Butler. The rest I agree. Tatum is around 12.
 

DGreenwood

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Tatum was 11th in All-NBA votes last year. Of the guys ahead of him, I don't think anyone in the league actually thinks Siakam is currently a better player, and given his age there isn't a team in the league that would take Chris Paul over Tatum, either. Curry and Durant will be back this year, and there are a few guys who got fewer votes than Tatum who are arguably better (George, Embiid, Butler, Towns) so it's not a lead-pipe cinch that he's a top 10 guy this year, but he's certainly top 15 and a decent bet to be top 10. Calling him top 25 is an insult at this point, as there isn't a reputable analyst in the league that would have him out of the top 20.
Or even the top 15, really.
 
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ManicCompression

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I wouldn't say Tatum is top 10 in the league right now, but he's on the track to be there in the next year or two.

(LeBron, AD, Kawhi, Giannis, Luka, Harden, Lillard, Jokic, Butler, Embiid would be my top 10 right now likely and that's only if we leave out the injured players in Steph and KD).
This is a good list and hard to quibble with, but while Tatum may be a slightly worse player than Jokic, Embiid, Butler, and Lillard, his combination of defense and shooting makes him much, much easier to build around. The fact that he's a versatile wing rather than a big or a guard (or a non-shooter) opens up wider possibilities of team building than players who are better than him in a vacuum. He can fit with pretty much any player in the NBA, which is something you can only say about a few guys on that list.
 

Jimbodandy

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Tatum was 11th in All-NBA votes last year. Of the guys ahead of him, I don't think anyone in the league actually thinks Siakam is currently a better player, and given his age there isn't a team in the league that would take Chris Paul over Tatum, either. Curry and Durant will be back this year, and there are a few guys who got fewer votes than Tatum who are arguably better (George, Embiid, Butler, Towns) so it's not a lead-pipe cinch that he's a top 10 guy this year, but he's certainly top 15 and a decent bet to be top 10. Calling him top 25 is an insult at this point, as there isn't a reputable analyst in the league that would have him out of the top 20.
Perfect post.

This is a good list and hard to quibble with, but while Tatum may be a slightly worse player than Jokic, Embiid, Butler, and Lillard, his combination of defense and shooting makes him much, much easier to build around. The fact that he's a versatile wing rather than a big or a guard (or a non-shooter) opens up wider possibilities of team building than players who are better than him in a vacuum. He can fit with pretty much any player in the NBA, which is something you can only say about a few guys on that list.
This one is damn good too.
 

benhogan

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This is a good list and hard to quibble with, but while Tatum may be a slightly worse player than Jokic, Embiid, Butler, and Lillard, his combination of defense and shooting makes him much, much easier to build around. The fact that he's a versatile wing rather than a big or a guard (or a non-shooter) opens up wider possibilities of team building than players who are better than him in a vacuum. He can fit with pretty much any player in the NBA, which is something you can only say about a few guys on that list.
+1

this is very underrated and also applies to Brown
 
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BaseballJones

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Tatum was 11th in All-NBA votes last year. Of the guys ahead of him, I don't think anyone in the league actually thinks Siakam is currently a better player, and given his age there isn't a team in the league that would take Chris Paul over Tatum, either. Curry and Durant will be back this year, and there are a few guys who got fewer votes than Tatum who are arguably better (George, Embiid, Butler, Towns) so it's not a lead-pipe cinch that he's a top 10 guy this year, but he's certainly top 15 and a decent bet to be top 10. Calling him top 25 is an insult at this point, as there isn't a reputable analyst in the league that would have him out of the top 20.
Being a top 10 player now, and being someone that every team would take moving forward, are two different things. I think Tatum is better than Paul, but it's possible Paul is still better. But due to age and projectability, it's still totally true that every team in the league would take Tatum over Paul at this point. But that doesn't necessarily mean that Tatum is better than Paul right this moment.

But whether Tatum is #9 or #11 or #15 doesn't really matter. Those are just made-up rankings. The guy is phenomenal with a lot of room for his game to grow still.
 

The Social Chair

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Clear top 9

Lebron
Giannis
Kawhi
Harden
Curry
Davis
Jokic
Lillard
Doncic

The next tier is made up of these guys.

Tatum
CP3
Durant (he moves way up if healthy)
Embiid
Butler
Simmons
 

lexrageorge

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Clear top 9

Lebron
Giannis
Kawhi
Harden
Curry
Davis
Jokic
Lillard
Doncic

The next tier is made up of these guys.

Tatum
CP3
Durant (he moves way up if healthy)
Embiid
Butler
Simmons
Tatum is clearly better than CP3 (not sure why that's debatable, to be honest), Embiid, and Simmons. Butler schooled him a bit in the playoffs, but Butler schooled everyone in Orlando, and I think got underrated by a lot of folks due to the Philly fiasco.

Paul George and Rudy Gobert could be added to that 2nd tier, among others noted by @the moops .
 

nighthob

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No serious fan would. Lillard's argument is that he's a gravity warping scorer. But so's Tatum, and he's a defensive wrecking ball to boot.
 

Pollard's Spartan Beard

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Paul George and Rudy Gobert could be added to that 2nd tier, among others noted by @the moops .
George is a great player, but if we're going to put PG in the second tier, we need to put some more respect on Jaylen Brown's name. Jaylen had a comparable regular season to PG last year, had an objectively better playoff performance both as an individual and from a team perspective. Brown is going to cost around $7 million less per season than PG13 going forward, and has the benefit of not having forced his way off of one team in a way that hamstrung their ability to make a deal, then fleeing a second one season after committing to them long term. Couple that with a couple ugly playoff ousters at the hands of lower seeded teams, and I'll take the guy who is six years younger and whose team has overachieved during his tenure.

Between his age, the weirdness of last season's Clippers team, and the lingering shoulder issues, I think PG gets more of a pass for his recent history than he ought to.

I don't think that means he doesn't belong in the second tier - I just happen to think that second tier of NBA players is much larger and more subjective than we sometimes make it out to be once you get past the top 10 guys in the league.

There's no chance in hell I'd take Paul George over Jayson Tatum, and I don't consider it particularly close.
 

Jimbodandy

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Agreed with whoever posted above that the distinction between JT at #9 or #14 isn't that material. He's around 10ish and nowhere near 25. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a PPG uber alles guy.
 

lexrageorge

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George is a great player, but if we're going to put PG in the second tier, we need to put some more respect on Jaylen Brown's name. Jaylen had a comparable regular season to PG last year, had an objectively better playoff performance both as an individual and from a team perspective. Brown is going to cost around $7 million less per season than PG13 going forward, and has the benefit of not having forced his way off of one team in a way that hamstrung their ability to make a deal, then fleeing a second one season after committing to them long term. Couple that with a couple ugly playoff ousters at the hands of lower seeded teams, and I'll take the guy who is six years younger and whose team has overachieved during his tenure.

Between his age, the weirdness of last season's Clippers team, and the lingering shoulder issues, I think PG gets more of a pass for his recent history than he ought to.

I don't think that means he doesn't belong in the second tier - I just happen to think that second tier of NBA players is much larger and more subjective than we sometimes make it out to be once you get past the top 10 guys in the league.

There's no chance in hell I'd take Paul George over Jayson Tatum, and I don't consider it particularly close.
I agree that the 2nd tier can be a fairly large list. Try to define it as players 10-25 or 10-30, as is commonly done, and there will be a sizable gap between Tatum (who by any measure should be near the top of that tier) and whomever occupies the space in slots #20-30.
 

Cellar-Door

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I love Lillard, I would not take him over Tatum.
To build a team maybe not, if we're just saying best performers in the league he should be ranked ahead of Tatum right now. He has a very good case as the single best offensive player in the league. His offense is much better than Tatum's, the defense is the reverse, but I tend to think that in a star Offense is far more important.
 

benhogan

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It's kind of irrelevant where Tatum is ranked right now, it's where will he be in 7mths when the playoffs begin. Go back and look at what JT was doing at the start of last season and what he transformed into by the playoffs.

He's a 22yr old kid that improves month by month. Every time he adds 5lbs of muscle, that's another dozen opposing wings that bounce off him as he goes to the rim.
 

OurF'ingCity

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It's kind of irrelevant where Tatum is ranked right now, it's where will he be in 7mths when the playoffs begin. Go back and look at what JT was doing at the start of last season and what he transformed into by the playoffs.

He's a 22yr old kid that improves month by month. Every time he adds 5lbs of muscle, that's another dozen opposing wings that bounce off him as he goes to the rim.
Yeah, pretty much all the historical comps suggest that not only will he get better in the coming years, he’ll get a LOT better, which is scary when you consider what he’s accomplished and what kind of player he is already.
 

DJnVa

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Jimmy Stewart of F&M said that he’s hearing(whatever that means) that an Atlanta trade for Hayward and 14 would net Cam Reddish and 6.
That essentially means ATL would trade Reddish and 6 for 14? I mean, why? That makes no sense.
 

nighthob

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Jimmy Stewart of F&M said that he’s hearing(whatever that means) that an Atlanta trade for Hayward and 14 would net Cam Reddish and 6.
Now that would be an interesting deal, Reddish kinda/sorta replaces Gordo as the big wing with playmaking ability. And in that circumstance I would guess that Okongwu was the target rather than Okoro. Atlanta gets a solid vet wing to help the kids win while still getting a swing at #14 to add someone like Nesmith.
 

nighthob

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That essentially means ATL would trade Reddish and 6 for 14? I mean, why? That makes no sense.
I'm assuming it's Reddish and Dedmon for a re-signed Hayward and some cap space to use on other useful vets.
 

Cellar-Door

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Jimmy Stewart of F&M said that he’s hearing(whatever that means) that an Atlanta trade for Hayward and 14 would net Cam Reddish and 6.
Yeah, I assume that is missing a whole lot if that were the deal.
I mean... okay, let's say nighthob is right and they want to get off Dedmon for some reason. Hayward and 14 for Dedmon and Reddish..... sure. Where is the value for the 6 coming from?
We know Danny was offerring 14 and at least 1 if not both of 26/30 to every team he could to move up. So now we think dumping Dedmon is worth more than Reddish, 26 and 30? No way, it's not that big a contract.
 

nighthob

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I'm assuming Hayward's agreement to sign a long term deal at below max rates and not having to pay a higher salary for a player that probably won't be any better than the guy drafted 14th. Maybe Boston tosses in Timelord to be their backup C.
 

Swedgin

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Yeah, I assume that is missing a whole lot if that were the deal.
I mean... okay, let's say nighthob is right and they want to get off Dedmon for some reason. Hayward and 14 for Dedmon and Reddish..... sure. Where is the value for the 6 coming from?
We know Danny was offerring 14 and at least 1 if not both of 26/30 to every team he could to move up. So now we think dumping Dedmon is worth more than Reddish, 26 and 30? No way, it's not that big a contract.
I am with you, that makes no sense. A straight salary dump of Demond, who is an expiring at 13, should cost at most a late first. Look at what Philly paid to move off of Horford, who is due nearly 70M. Granted not all of that is deadweight, but still.
 

BigSoxFan

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