Celtics sign Jabari Parker

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Romeo long term and Romeo this season are 2 different things. I’m not particularly high on him long term either, but I’m primarily talking about this season. Romeo can defend some, but overall this season has been very bad. Not particularly debatable.
I think you're putting waaay too much weight in BRef stats. VORP and BPM are box score stats and players like GW and RL are going to suffer (just like JB did in his first couple of seasons) because they simply don't touch the ball very much.

As I've (and others) have said multiple times, Romeo is the Cs best on-ball defender and really provides something the Cs were missing. It's no coincidence that the Cs are 7-1 since Romeo's return and it's no coincidence that the Cs have a great DRtg when Romeo is on the court. It's not particularly debatable to me that Romeo will be a key to the Cs success this year.

Just like I think they would beat the Heat if he wasn't injured last year. (Will enjoy seeing RL guard Herro when the Cs play the Heat in May).
 

Auger34

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The thing about Parker’s defense was always versus starting 4’s where he was a 20, 21 and 22 year old still figuring out what he’s supposed to be doing. Much of this was a lack of physical skills agaiant the elite scorers in the league and some from his attitude of being a scorer and his mindset that scorers get paid.

His role now will be far different here in that he can still score (the ball lol) while no longer being exposed by having to defend Durant, Porzingis, LeBron, Randle, Sabonis, Dirk, etc etc back then who overmatched him physically, If Parkers knee is ok and he’s in decent shape (admittedly a big IF) he’s going to surprise the naysayers here. Not sure why he’s being evaluated like he is by some or expected to not have an opportunity outside of garbage time minutes.

His will be a similar role on the floor as Carmelo in Portland when he replaced the minutes of Skal Labissiere and Nasir Little after Collins went down with an injury two years ago (except he’ll be doing it off the bench). Replace players who can’t score with one who can while maybe not losing as much on the other end (since the player he’s replacing stinks).
Sadly, this is only partially true. Parker’s issues on D were both what you describe in your first paragraph...and that he just didn’t give a fuck and his effort reflected that.

After he signed with the Bulls he said “they don’t pay players to play defense” and “they pay people to score the ball”.

This is why I am actually optimistic about this signing. Hopefully a lightbulb went off in his head after what he’s been through and he now realizes that you have to at least try on defense to get any sort of PT in the NBA
 

HomeRunBaker

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Sadly, this is only partially true. Parker’s issues on D were both what you describe in your first paragraph...and that he just didn’t give a fuck and his effort reflected that.

After he signed with the Bulls he said “they don’t pay players to play defense” and “they pay people to score the ball”.

This is why I am actually optimistic about this signing. Hopefully a lightbulb went off in his head after what he’s been through and he now realizes that you have to at least try on defense to get any sort of PT in the NBA
Yes agreed. I mentioned about the min contract wake up call up thread somewhere. NBA players don’t begin figuring things out until they are mid-20’s anyway so I’m banking on his health to be a productive player. Being in Atlanta’s system last year followed by Sacto can simply be thrown out as far as fit goes.
 

Cesar Crespo

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The ACL pushed him out of the league but it was clear he wasn’t going to be a star in the league before then.
That's some serious revision history right there considering the ACL issues started in his rookie season where he only played 25 games.

Please tell me how it was clear after 29 games as a 19 year old that he wouldn't be a star.
 

DJnVa

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I wish we were getting this:

Parker's overall skill level is absurd for his size: He's huge (6'8, 240 lbs, 7' wingspan), but he handles the ball like a guard. He can beat slow-footed power forwards from the perimeter with a mix of advanced dribble moves, but he's strong enough to bully thinner forwards on the block. Parker can drive with his left or right hand and finish through traffic with either. He also has deep range, shooting 36 percent from behind the arc in his freshman season.

In transition, Parker is a one-man wrecking ball. He can grab a defensive rebound and fly up the court by himself or finesse his way past a flurry of defenders. He doesn't run as fast or jump as high as Wiggins, but he's still a very good athlete.
https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2014/5/22/5626576/jabari-parker-scouting-report-nba-draft-2014
 

HomeRunBaker

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Pretty much every pre draft scouting report mentioning that was a shitty, low-effort defender?
He lacked the length, quickness and elite athleticism of those in that superstar tier before the injuries. Thick bodies are ok if you have the size of a Jokic but not so much as a 4 in today’s game.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Yet he went 2nd in the draft despite that scouting report. What did the scouting reports say about Jayson Tatum?
That wasn’t thought to be a star laden draft. Andrew Wiggins was the consensus #1 once Embiid’s injuries raised red flags. This was a draft that saw Exum, Vonleh, Stauskas Elfrid Payton and McDermott go in the Top-11
 

luckiestman

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That wasn’t thought to be a star laden draft. Andrew Wiggins was the consensus #1 once Embiid’s injuries raised red flags. This was a draft that saw Exum, Vonleh, Stauskas Elfrid Payton and McDermott go in the Top-11
I recall the top 3/4 being thought of quite highly so when we got 6 people were bummed.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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It's the age old question for guys of Parker's size. Are they too big and skilled for smaller guys and too quick for bigger guys or are they too slow for fast guys and too small for bigger guys?

Parker is certainly an upgrade from Wagner so I'm fine with it. As HRB says, maybe he'll be better off on the second unit avoiding skilled wings.
 

lovegtm

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That wasn’t thought to be a star laden draft. Andrew Wiggins was the consensus #1 once Embiid’s injuries raised red flags. This was a draft that saw Exum, Vonleh, Stauskas Elfrid Payton and McDermott go in the Top-11
Man, this feels wrong in terms of my recollection. I remember it being viewed as a pretty good draft--people wanted all the guys you're mentioning. Exum was highly thought of, Orlando traded up for Payton, Chicago traded a lot for McDermott, etc. Parker was viewed as a really strong prospect.

It's only with hindsight that it looks crappy.
 

luckiestman

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Man, this feels wrong in terms of my recollection. I remember it being viewed as a pretty good draft--people wanted all the guys you're mentioning. Exum was highly thought of, Orlando traded up for Payton, Chicago traded a lot for McDermott, etc. Parker was viewed as a really strong prospect.

It's only with hindsight that it looks crappy.
I agree.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Man, this feels wrong in terms of my recollection. I remember it being viewed as a pretty good draft--people wanted all the guys you're mentioning. Exum was highly thought of, Orlando traded up for Payton, Chicago traded a lot for McDermott, etc. Parker was viewed as a really strong prospect.

It's only with hindsight that it looks crappy.
It was thought to be fairly strong but not with a franchise changer with the exception of Embiid who was injured. People had many questions about Wiggins (I was wrong I really liked him) and some like myself didn’t view Jabari that way either. Of course we were disappointed to pick 6th and choose between Smart, Vonleh and Stauskas......that doesn’t mean we were missing out on a franchise changer or that Jabari should have dropped below them.
 

Cesar Crespo

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It was thought to be fairly strong but not with a franchise changer with the exception of Embiid who was injured. People had many questions about Wiggins (I was wrong I really liked him) and some like myself didn’t view Jabari that way either. Of course we were disappointed to pick 6th and choose between Smart, Vonleh and Stauskas......that doesn’t mean we were missing out on a franchise changer.
I don't know. Wiggins and Parker were hyped to death and went through the normal question period all top players have close to the draft.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I don't know. Wiggins and Parker were hyped to death and went through the normal question period all top players have close to the draft.
Maybe it was that I was down on Jabari as that guy and others questioned so much about Wiggins. I do agree that the drop off after Embiid was thought to be deep but due to them being such average prospects.
 

lovegtm

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Maybe it was that I was down on Jabari as that guy and others questioned so much about Wiggins. I do agree that the drop off after Embiid was thought to be deep but due to them being such average prospects.
Good for you if you were down on Jabari (no sarcasm), but iirc the pre-draft evaluations of him and Tatum were really similar, which goes to show how much of a crapshoot this all is.

I wonder whether Jabari's initial career made people more skeptical of Tatum than they would have been.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Good for you if you were down on Jabari (no sarcasm), but iirc the pre-draft evaluations of him and Tatum were really similar, which goes to show how much of a crapshoot this all is.

I wonder whether Jabari's initial career made people more skeptical of Tatum than they would have been.
I place a lot of weight on a players body when viewing their upside and ceiling. I recall posting somewhere how Wiggins body was made for the NBA while Jabari’s was made for the NFL. Tatum’s lean fast twitch type is more similar to Wiggins than Jabari so me personally I wouldn’t comp them at all.

I thought Jabari would be good as he had such a nice skill level and was a natural scorer. Of course the ACLs didn’t help but they also aren’t nearly as debilitating to where it’s going to ruin them like yesteryear. There have been athletes with multiple tears to have great success. Lindsey Vonn, Frank Gore, etc.
 

TripleOT

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IDK about his lateral movement, but Parker looks springy in this highlight package from the great Polish Celtics video creator TIMI. It looks to me that these highlights were post-last knee injury, and much of it is in garbage time

View: https://youtu.be/R4zTxOgz9N8
 

radsoxfan

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It's no coincidence that the Cs are 7-1 since Romeo's return

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on Romeo up to this point. I think he has been solid on D and horrendous on offense, definitely not the reason for the Celtics being 7-1 recently.

He has some NBA skills and I think it's worthwhile to give him a chance this year, but I feel the bar to jump over him in the rotation is still quite low. Potentially low enough that even Jabari can jump over it.
 

mcpickl

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I think people talking about a lightbulb for Jabari are missing the point... his effort may not be great, but the bigger problem is his skill/athleticism profile isn't that good.
The second ACL tear really was the beginning of the end for him, he's not explosive anymore.
He hasn't been able to shoot the 3, so he has to be incredibly efficient in the midrange to make up for it, and he hurts your spacing, and he's not a particularly good passer either. Improved effort might make him more playable on D, but right now, he's basically Grant Williams, but worse on D, worse from 3, and better at mid-post creating his own shot.
I guess they see him as the power-forward Kanter (with closer to average D, but without the rebounds) in that he might be a break glass in case nobody can create a shot emergency points.
This is what I think they're taking a swing at.

They know he can't defend well enough to play any meaningful minutes, but maybe on nights they're struggling to score he can give them 8 points in 4 minutes just to stem the tide.
 

mcpickl

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How much salary counts for luxury tax purposes this year? is it just one month of the minimum (which is what he'll actually earn) or is it the full annualized minimum (like it would if they had traded for him)?

I've spent way too much time worrying about the luxury tax this year because I want them to push that repeater tax as far down the road as possible. I should just trust that Zarren is really good at this and stop worrying about it.
Just the pro-rated portion of the minimum is what he'll get paid, and what counts against the tax.

They're still under the tax. They created just enough room with the Theis trade. There was no way they were going over for Parker.

There is also still a chance NY actually claims Mo Wagner, since they have an open roster spot, lost Mitchell Robinson and are below the salary floor.
 
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lovegtm

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Just the pro-rated portion of the minimum is what he'll get paid, and what counts against the tax.

They're still under the tax. They created just enough room with the Theis trade. There was no way they were going over for Parker.
Also worth noting that (I think) they go over the tax if they make the Finals, due to Jaylen and Fournier's bonuses. I'm guessing that fell under the category of "totally worth it if it happens."
 

benhogan

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This is what I think they're taking a swing at.

They know he can't defend well enough to play any meaningful minutes, but maybe on nights they're struggling to score he can give them 8 points in 4 minutes just to stem the tide.
At worst, the $3MM (?) option could help for matching purposes this summer.
 

chilidawg

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IDK about his lateral movement, but Parker looks springy in this highlight package from the great Polish Celtics video creator TIMI. It looks to me that these highlights were post-last knee injury, and much of it is in garbage time

View: https://youtu.be/R4zTxOgz9N8
No one on our bench currently is that explosive of a finisher. I hope he can play at that level.

Not sure why you think it's garbage time, most of the footage wasn't.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I guess we will have to agree to disagree on Romeo up to this point. I think he has been solid on D and horrendous on offense, definitely not the reason for the Celtics being 7-1 recently.

He has some NBA skills and I think it's worthwhile to give him a chance this year, but I feel the bar to jump over him in the rotation is still quite low. Potentially low enough that even Jabari can jump over it.
Romeo doesn't touch the ball on offense so there's no way we can know how good he is or is not.

But remember, Romeo was the first guy off the bench in Game 2 of the Heat series last year. Jabari is not playing before Romeo this year in any kind of meaningful game.
 

radsoxfan

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Romeo doesn't touch the ball on offense so there's no way we can know how good he is or is not.

But remember, Romeo was the first guy off the bench in Game 2 of the Heat series last year. Jabari is not playing before Romeo this year in any kind of meaningful game.
Sadly Romeo has touched the ball and it isn’t pretty.

Nothing would make Danny, Brad, and myself happier than to see Romeo look competent on offense. We’ll see what happens.

I have a feeling Jabari was picked up because they aren’t so sure it’s going to happen this year.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Sadly Romeo has touched the ball and it isn’t pretty.

Nothing would make Danny, Brad, and myself happier than to see Romeo look competent on offense. We’ll see what happens.

I have a feeling Jabari was picked up because they aren’t so sure it’s going to happen this year.
Romeo has a USG% of 11.3%. (same as GW.0 He touches the ball less than Tacko. He's a guy who has played 35 games and has three superstars and Marcus Smart on the team. He's basically not looking at the basket and that's ok.
 

Cellar-Door

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Offense was good. Defense was bad, but good effort and he just got here so maybe he can learn the system and be better.

I think when we're healthy his role is going to be limited and not every game, but if he can grow into the defense more he could have a role next year off the bench.
 

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Offense was good. Defense was bad, but good effort and he just got here so maybe he can learn the system and be better.

I think when we're healthy his role is going to be limited and not every game, but if he can grow into the defense more he could have a role next year off the bench.
It just feels like his instant offense off the bench is a real asset, if used correctly.
 

Cellar-Door

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It just feels like his instant offense off the bench is a real asset, if used correctly.
It's going to depend on the game. When we're healthy we probably have 2 of Tatum/Brown/Kemba/NG on the court at all times, so post offense isn't a priority then, and his D is very bad, so some games he's just not going to be a good risk/reward ratio. Others, or with injuries he might be.
 

radsoxfan

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It's going to depend on the game. When we're healthy we probably have 2 of Tatum/Brown/Kemba/NG on the court at all times, so post offense isn't a priority then, and his D is very bad, so some games he's just not going to be a good risk/reward ratio. Others, or with injuries he might be.
It's not going to depend on the game.

The 2021 version of Romeo, Semi, Nesmith, and Grant are all very bad.

Jabari is going to get a chance to be a rotation player, we have no one else.
 

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It's going to depend on the game. When we're healthy we probably have 2 of Tatum/Brown/Kemba/NG on the court at all times, so post offense isn't a priority then, and his D is very bad, so some games he's just not going to be a good risk/reward ratio. Others, or with injuries he might be.
What am I missing--NG?