Celtics trade rumors - Deadline 2/18, 3 PM

[Eddie Jurak]

Here is an interesting trade idea from Kevin O'Connor:

http://bostonceltics.about.com/od/Player-Analysis/fl/Heres-a-blockbuster-trade-idea-for-the-Celtics-and-Hawks.htm?utm_campaign=atlsocialposting_undefined&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=1454247166601

Boston trades: 2016 Boston first + 2016 Dallas first + 2018 Memphis first + 2016 and 2017 Minny 2nds + Lee contract + Sully

Atlanta trades: Horford + Korver

Big risk in that Horford is a FA, but...

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Here is an interesting trade idea from Kevin O'Connor:

http://bostonceltics.about.com/od/Player-Analysis/fl/Heres-a-blockbuster-trade-idea-for-the-Celtics-and-Hawks.htm?utm_campaign=atlsocialposting_undefined&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_content=1454247166601

Boston trades: 2016 Boston first + 2016 Dallas first + 2018 Memphis first + 2016 and 2017 Minny 2nds + Lee contract + Sully

Atlanta trades: Horford + Korver

Big risk in that Horford is a FA, but...

I highly doubt Ainge makes it halfway through that phone call if the Hawks are asking for all that for a year and a half of Korver and a half season rental of Horford.

 

[sox311]

If the "feelers" are sent out to Horford's agent and he will sign the max in Boston I think Danny says yes in a heart beat, but I don't know if the Hawks would. The link is nothing more than someone posting an idea on a message board anyway.

It will be very difficult for Danny to make any deal without including a single one of the Nets picks. Any of the Nets picks have more value than both Boston and Dallas' first rounders this year plus the Memphis pick. Depressing...

Horford would be the best case scenario for who the Cs could get this season, right? Who else is a possibility on a sellers team? Atlanta, Phoenix, Orlando, Milwauke, Utah, Charlotte, New Orleans, Washington, New York. Atlanta has the best players on any team who has been mentioned as possible sellers. (Utah isn't trading Gordo...)

 

[moondog80]

If the "feelers" are sent out to Horford's agent and he will sign the max in Boston I think Danny says yes in a heart beat, but I don't know if the Hawks would. The link is nothing more than someone posting an idea on a message board anyway.

It will be very difficult for Danny to make any deal without including a single one of the Nets picks. Any of the Nets picks have more value than both Boston and Dallas' first rounders this year plus the Memphis pick. Depressing...

Horford would be the best case scenario for who the Cs could get this season, right? Who else is a possibility on a sellers team? Atlanta, Phoenix, Orlando, Milwauke, Utah, Charlotte, New Orleans, Washington, New York. Atlanta has the best players on any team who has been mentioned as possible sellers. (Utah isn't trading Gordo...)

I dunno. Show me the high first round picks that Allen Iverson or Dwight Howard generated. You take the best offer you can get, and the Hawks won't take an inferior offer to this one just because Boston has better picks yet to give.

 

[chilidawg]

Horford and Korver would be a great fit. Key is getting Horford to resign. You probably don't want Korver more than a year and a half anyway. I have no idea what Atlanta would want, but I'd consider including the 2018 Nets pick.

It'd be exciting to feel like a contender again.

 

[ALiveH]

Horford is one of the only realistic & one of the most attractive targets to poach out there. If Horford were willing to re-sign here, I'd do this trade even if have to include a Brooklyn pick. Would make us a contender, or at least getting close to one. And, would make us a more attractive destination for winning-oriented FAs just as the cap is set to rise dramatically.

Korver is an OK piece. not really a needle-mover for me. Don't really need him in the deal.

 

[Koufax]

Scrolling across the TV screen towards the end of the Celtic game tonight: Ainge pursuing Gallinari.

 

[sox311]

Scrolling across the TV screen towards the end of the Celtic game tonight: Ainge pursuing Gallinari.

No surprise as Danny has been tied to him for a six months now. Good player, great contract. How much would it take?

If the nuggs want to clear cap room and get a first rounder that would be the only reason I can see them trading him to Boston. But I don't know why they would trade him still. Mudiay will develop better with a player like him spacing the floor. They have a lot of good young players to try to build with and The Rooster you would think is a good piece to help build with. There is little reason for them to trade him.

 

[BigSoxFan]

You never know with bad teams what direction they want to go in. Denver could have as many as 3 first round picks this year so I'd say the likelihood of them being willing to dump Gallinari for one of our picks in the 18-24 range is probably unlikely. However, should a trade like that materialize, I hope we're all over it.

 

[jimv]

Is this turning into the trade rumor thread, Isola in the NY Daily News.....

Meanwhile, the Celtics have engaged the Houston Rockets in talks about a possible deal for Dwight Howard, the Daily News has learned. Howard can opt out of his contract this summer, and considering his back and knee issues, it doesn’t make much sense for Boston GM Danny Ainge to use the assets on a player with declining skills and a battered body.

Boston, which either owns or controls the Brooklyn Nets’ next three first-round picks, are positioned to make a major move either before the trade deadline or this summer around the draft. Another division rival, Toronto, owns the Knicks’ pick.

edit - source

 

[smastroyin]

I split this trade rumor thread. This is to talk about specific things that have come up. Of course the conversations in the building a winner thread are still relevant.

 

[smastroyin]

As for Gallinari, it's really too bad the Wolves are so fucking terrible and the Mavs have been good. If they were both hovering around the 9-12 spots that would probably be a good start for Denver. They have three first round picks right now, but probably one (if not both) of Houston or Portland will end up in the lottery.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

I can't imagine Ainge would play the long game only to blow it on Howard.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I can't imagine Ainge would play the long game only to blow it on Howard.

Howard would be a buy cheap guy at best who the Rockets are going to lose for nothing this summer if he isn't moved by the deadline. He won't come cheap to re-sign this summer but shouldn't have to give up much to get a taste for him over the final 30 games or so.

I'm not a proponent of Dwight nor a detractor only pointing out that he shouldn't cost much in assets to acquire him.....the cost would be in his next contract if we decide to keep him. I know this pains many "cap space is valuable" people here but this may be as good an option as we have to utilize this space.

 

[smastroyin]

Problem with Howard is money. To match up you have to get the Rockets to take Lee, and you have to add another $2.5 million+ (Zeller or Sully?)

So, Lee, Sully, Mavs Pick? Is that cheap enough? If you think Howard's injury will let him be effective all year, it could make the Celtics the #2 team in the East behind Cleveland. But does Houston have any reason to do this?

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Howard would be a buy cheap guy at best who the Rockets are going to lose for nothing this summer if he isn't moved by the deadline. He won't come cheap to re-sign this summer but shouldn't have to give up much to get a taste for him over the final 30 games or so.

I'm not a proponent of Dwight nor a detractor only pointing out that he shouldn't cost much in assets to acquire him.....the cost would be in his next contract if we decide to keep him. I know this pains many "cap space is valuable" people here but this may be as good an option as we have to utilize this space.

If the price is right, I don't disagree. But I could see Houston chasing a Brooklyn pick, and that would be insanely high for him. If it's the Dallas pick or lower, fine.

I just worry about his rep around the league as someone that's hard to play with. If we're overpaying to bring someone here, a key factor has to be their ability to bring in other stars. I worry that Dwight does the opposite.

 

[Devizier]

At the rate Howard is decaying, I would stay a million miles away.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

If you're buying low, I can actually see it. The Celtics are already an elite defensive team, and their best shot at making noise in the playoffs this year is to be Memphis-East. With guys like Bradley, Smart, Crowder, Johnson and Howard you can put together defensive lineups that make opponents work really hard for points, whether they go big or small. Scoring will be another matter altogether, but Gallinari would be a huge help in that area.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

Problem with Howard is money. To match up you have to get the Rockets to take Lee, and you have to add another $2.5 million+ (Zeller or Sully?)

So, Lee, Sully, Mavs Pick? Is that cheap enough? If you think Howard's injury will let him be effective all year, it could make the Celtics the #2 team in the East behind Cleveland. But does Houston have any reason to do this?

Obviously Lee is the salary and finding $2.5m filler somewhere isn't the issue it is as you say the price you pay for a rental. Maybe they'd like to see if Sully is a good physical fit to pair with Capela in the rotation and that they are simply ready to move on with Dwight knowing they get nothing in return otherwise. The art of negotiating.....who wants it more and is willing to bend the most.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

If we're overpaying to bring someone here, a key factor has to be their ability to bring in other stars. I worry that Dwight does the opposite.

I wouldn't factor that in at all much less put a premium on it. The next big contract we trade for or extend is going to blow this board up as it will appear to be an "overpay" since most fans don't yet recognize what the cap rising the next couple of years will do to these contracts. A league average starter like a Crowder or DeMarre Carroll-type will be signing 5/$100m+ contracts in their FA summer. Value will no longer be a $6m annual......it will be a $10-12m if you can find these guys and keep them cheap before they break out.

We had Pierce who alone couldn't away KG to come here. These players who can attract others are extremely rare....a small handful exist. We aren't going to be trading for any of those guys by the 18th or next summer.

 

[Jeff Van GULLY]

I wonder if James Young has any value across the league. I could see him being dealt as part of a package for Gallinari. Denver could use another SG/SF with Foye and Miller's deals expiring at the end of this season and if they are going with the youth movement, Young could get some burn playing behind Gary Harris & Will Barton.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

No, but there is a large difference between attracting and repelling free agents. There may only be a handful of players that attract free agents, but Dwight seems to be one of the handful of players that may repel them.

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

If the price is right, I don't disagree. But I could see Houston chasing a Brooklyn pick, and that would be insanely high for him. If it's the Dallas pick or lower, fine.

I just worry about his rep around the league as someone that's hard to play with. If we're overpaying to bring someone here, a key factor has to be their ability to bring in other stars. I worry that Dwight does the opposite.

I'd hope Ainge is just hanging up the phone anytime a GM asks about the Brooklyn pick without offering an immediate and significant upgrade with years left on his contract. Fortunately, even if you ignore the top 5 pick this year, the C's can still offer trade packages to compete with any other team--especially those that are looking to add veteran talent.

Whatever weirdness surrounds Dwight, the potential for complete physical breakdown is more concerning if we're talking long-term deal. As a speculative play, though, I'm intrigued.

 

[wutang112878]

I'm not a fan of the Howard or Horford deals. I'm convinced Howard just isnt a winner, never will be and its pretty clear we are starting to see the decline. Horford will be 30 next year and while it wouldnt take the Nets 1sts, thats still 3 1sts to get the opportunity to give the guy a max deal. I think come 2017-18 we'd look at those deals and realize they didnt accomplish much.

Gallinari is interesting but really depending on what we'd have to give up. However, I'm pretty sure that Stevens would turn him into a matchup nightmare and we'd see a noticeable increase in his efficiency.

I'm not really sure what else is out there, but I think I'd rather see Danny trade for a bit of a lesser guy who is closer to 25 and could grow with this roster. And then maybe a year from now once this roster looks like it can really compliment a #1 guy, then go empty the cabinets to go get that guy. And maybe you even luck out and get Simmons this year and you've found that guy. I dont think we are ready to swing for the fences just yet.

 

[Grin&MartyBarret]

I'm not a fan of the Howard or Horford deals. I'm convinced Howard just isnt a winner, never will be and its pretty clear we are starting to see the decline. Horford will be 30 next year and while it wouldnt take the Nets 1sts, thats still 3 1sts to get the opportunity to give the guy a max deal. I think come 2017-18 we'd look at those deals and realize they didnt accomplish much.

Gallinari is interesting but really depending on what we'd have to give up. However, I'm pretty sure that Stevens would turn him into a matchup nightmare and we'd see a noticeable increase in his efficiency.

I'm not really sure what else is out there, but I think I'd rather see Danny trade for a bit of a lesser guy who is closer to 25 and could grow with this roster. And then maybe a year from now once this roster looks like it can really compliment a #1 guy, then go empty the cabinets to go get that guy. And maybe you even luck out and get Simmons this year and you've found that guy. I dont think we are ready to swing for the fences just yet.

Gallinari would already be the second most efficient scorer on the Celtics, and is pretty damn efficient as is given his ability to get to the line and make free throws at an elite clip. If Stevens can increase Gallinari's efficiency, that would basically make him an elite scorer and that's a deal the Celtics should definitely pursue.

 

[wutang112878]

Ugh, I hope this isnt true, from NY Daily News:

Meanwhile, the Celtics have engaged the Houston Rockets in talks about a possible deal for Dwight Howard, the Daily News has learned. Howard can opt out of his contract this summer, and considering his back and knee issues, it doesn’t make much sense for Boston GM Danny Ainge to use the assets on a player with declining skills and a battered body.

 

[Rusty13]

Mike Gorman was ALL on board a move for Howard on Toucher and Rich today and even specifically mentioned a package surrounding one of the Brooklyn 1st rounders and Lee's expiring contract.

Where there's smoke, there's fire?

 

[ALiveH]

Dwight Howard isn't DWIGHT HOWARD anymore but he'd still be the best big man on the celtics and is one of the best defensive bigs in the league.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

I agree with HRB---Howard is likely a low-cost pickup from a team who is trying to shake things up. I don't buy that a Brooklyn pick would be involved.

I don't like Howard at this point in his career, either on the court or off it....and I'd still do some of the trade permutations I've seen for him. This team has a ton of assets, and they should be willing to flip lesser ones for a better playoff run this year, and a chance to see what Howard is like in a good lockerroom with good teammates (so, unlike anything he's experienced in about six years). As much as he has declined, he's quite possibly as good a bet as anyone else they could sign with that space in the offseason, should they get comfortable with the personality and the fit.

I'd imagine part of picking him up is understanding the role he'd have here---likely, rebounder/rim presence and a post scorer to provide another option and some balance offensively. They don't need 20 points, they just need someone who requires the other team to play a guy over 6-8 on defense.

 

[ElcaballitoMVP]

Man, I really don't like Dwight Howard. The injuries really scare me.

With that said, if you're talking something like Sully, Lee and a BKL 1st that isn't this year, it sure is something to think about. I don't know if Houston is willing to sell that low, though.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

Man, I really don't like Dwight Howard. The injuries really scare me.

With that said, if you're talking something like Sully, Lee and a BKL 1st that isn't this year, it sure is something to think about. I don't know if Houston is willing to sell that low, though.

I wouldn't do a Brooklyn first for Howard; I like the chances of any of those pick becoming a star more than Howard being one going forward. But I would do a couple of any other assets (other firsts, seconds, lower-tier players---of which Celts have about 8). And I suspect a half-season of Howard is worth close to a low-1st, sully/lee than a Brooklyn pick.

 

[RoDaddy]

Dwight Howard isn't DWIGHT HOWARD anymore but he'd still be the best big man on the celtics and is one of the best defensive bigs in the league.

Exactly. We are playing about as well as we can right now but this is close to our ceiling. The problem is and continues to be lack of a quality big. Even though he's not what he used to be, Howard would instantly elevate us to contender, although not as good as a handful of other teams. But still, injuries, etc - you never know what can happen and at least we'd be in the mix. And if it turns out to be a half year rental for say Lee, the Mavs pick and Sully, fine - we don't really need any of those anyway

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

Mike Gorman was ALL on board a move for Howard on Toucher and Rich today and even specifically mentioned a package surrounding one of the Brooklyn 1st rounders and Lee's expiring contract.

Where there's smoke, there's fire?

Mike Gorman is 68, his opinion of future draft picks is roughly akin to that of Evan Turner.

 

[amfox1]

Man, I really don't like Dwight Howard. The injuries really scare me.

With that said, if you're talking something like Sully, Lee and a BKL 1st that isn't this year, it sure is something to think about. I don't know if Houston is willing to sell that low, though.

In my mind, Sully/Lee/DAL 1st/MIN 2nd for Howard is the framework of a deal. It works on the trade machine and gives Ainge/Stevens four months to decide if he can be a longer-term piece of the team.

 

[ElcaballitoMVP]

I wouldn't do a Brooklyn first for Howard; I like the chances of any of those pick becoming a star more than Howard being one going forward. But I would do a couple of any other assets (other firsts, seconds, lower-tier players---of which Celts have about 8). And I suspect a half-season of Howard is worth close to a low-1st, sully/lee than a Brooklyn pick.

In my mind, Sully/Lee/DAL 1st/MIN 2nd for Howard is the framework of a deal. It works on the trade machine and gives Ainge/Stevens four months to decide if he can be a longer-term piece of the team.

I hadn't realized Howard could opt out at the end of the year when I first looked at the trade checker. It shows him as having another season under contract, which is why I thought one of the future BKL picks might be needed. But since he's got a player option for next year, I don't see Danny giving up a BKL pick for a potential rental.

Sully/Lee/DAL sounds good, maybe one more lower 1st (maybe ours this year or next). I don't know who else is in the Dwight market, so tough to tell if that would be enough to be the high bidder.

 

[Koufax]

Not sure I want to be the high bidder on this. The Celtics are still building for the future and have a lot of forward looking assets. Howard is on the back nine. Howard for Sully and Lee and no draft picks makes me queasy. I'd throw in some second round picks I suppose, but that's all I'd do.

 

[smastroyin]

Honestly, if Ainge could figure a way to rent Howard (I'm not sure about long term but whatever) and grab Gallinari without giving up one of the C's key players for THIS season then I like their chances against anyone but SAS and GS, and I think I could at least imagine them competing with CLE in the East. So, it's fun to dream.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

In my mind, Sully/Lee/DAL 1st/MIN 2nd for Howard is the framework of a deal. It works on the trade machine and gives Ainge/Stevens four months to decide if he can be a longer-term piece of the team.

This is pretty much where I'm at as well. We are losing Sully for nothing this summer anyway so you are essentially paying a mid-to-low first to give us a fighting chance against Cleveland's big while having a 30+ game sample to decide whether to pay Howard the big deal this summer.

Houston gets to see Sully close up (if he's on their radar) while adding a low 1st for a guy they would be losing for nothing this summer. Maybe we have to throw in some filler which isn't a deal breaker to me. Filler is just that, filler.

 

[the moops]

There is zero chance that Dwight Howard fetches anything close to a top draft pick, whether it is in 2016, or a potential one in 2018. He is still a decent player, and I would gladly take a flyer on him, but he is hardly a max guy anymore, and he is a short term rental.

Did Orlando even got anything back as valuable as a top 3 pick when they traded the really, really good Dwight Howard?

 

[Kliq]

A lot of people felt that Orlando got hosed in the Howard deal when it happened because they didn't get Bynum in it. Improbably Orlando would go on to handily win that trade in the long run.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Chris Mannix ‏@ChrisMannixYS 28s28 seconds ago
Rockets have engaged teams about Dwight Howard, per league sources, but the asking price has been steep. HOU not just looking to dump him.

 

[TheRooster]

3+ years older, but maybe Dwight is the new Robert Parish. Wishful thinking, I realize but not completely out of the question.

 

[RedOctober3829]

3+ years older, but maybe Dwight is the new Robert Parish. Wishful thinking, I realize but not completely out of the question.

Need a Bird and a McHale too.

 

[jimv]

Sean Grande throwing cold water all over the Howard rumor on the pregame show tonight. He was certain the Cs had no interest. On the other hand, he did claim they were interested in Horford, though the odds we slim that anything would happen

 

[southshoresoxfan]

Sean Grande throwing cold water all over the Howard rumor on the pregame show tonight. He was certain the Cs had no interest. On the other hand, he did claim they were interested in Horford, though the odds we slim that anything would happen

This sums up the NBA trade deadline quite well. Most fun league to speculate about, but the big players rarely ever get moved.

 

[BigSoxFan]

This sums up the NBA trade deadline quite well. Most fun league to speculate about, but the big players rarely ever get moved.

I mean - why would Atlanta trade Horford when they're currently the 3 seed and don't have a very talented roster outside of a few guys? Yes, they may lose him in FA but that's a risk you take when you're a team like this that is built to win now. And they certainly wouldn't trade him to the 4 seed in the same conference unless we dangled the Brooklyn pick or something stupid like that.

 

[NoXInNixon]

I mean - why would Atlanta trade Horford when they're currently the 3 seed and don't have a very talented roster outside of a few guys? Yes, they may lose him in FA but that's a risk you take when you're a team like this that is built to win now. And they certainly wouldn't trade him to the 4 seed in the same conference unless we dangled the Brooklyn pick or something stupid like that.

Maybe they don't particularly value being the third best team in a one-team conference. With Horford, their ceiling this year is getting blown out by the Cavs in the ECF. It wouldn't take a particularly big future return to give that up.

Of course, the exact same logic is why it makes no sense for the Celtics to give up anything of significant future value to get him right now. They need to let this year play out, see what happens in the lottery, and then see about making a big move.

 

[HomeRunBaker]

I mean - why would Atlanta trade Horford when they're currently the 3 seed and don't have a very talented roster outside of a few guys? Yes, they may lose him in FA but that's a risk you take when you're a team like this that is built to win now. And they certainly wouldn't trade him to the 4 seed in the same conference unless we dangled the Brooklyn pick or something stupid like that.

The thing is that there is no "may lose him"......that decision has already been made by Atlanta. If that decision is that they aren't paying him the super-max (likely) then trading him now while receiving a return not only should be a no-brainer.......but it should have happened two summers ago when the return would have been massive. As a rental, Horford's trade value takes a major hit.

 

[RedOctober3829]

“There is validity to the fact that there have been conversations between Houston and Boston. They originated with the Rockets, as sort of a temperature-taking of Danny [Ainge] and what he would give up for Dwight, but the price right now is way too high,” Mannix told T&R on Thursday. “From everything I was told, it was a short conversation.”

Mannix said former Rockets head coach Kevin McHale (fired by Houston at the beginning of the season) enjoyed coaching Howard, and as a former teammate of Ainge his opinion carries a lot of weight with Boston’s president of basketball operations. But the asking price for Howard is way too high for Boston’s taste at the moment, so the chat was a non-starter.

“One thing Danny has to look at is he is in a position where he has to recruit free agents to Boston. He had guys that players want to play with — you want to play with Isaiah Thomas, Marcus Smart, and Jae Crowder is as valuable to Boston as anyone on the team,” added Mannix. “Howard, I don’t know if he helps recruiting free agents.”

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/02/04/mannix-short-conversation-between-celtics-rockets-about-dwight-howard/?cid=facebook_98.5_The_Sports_Hub

 

[sox311]

Bucks reportedly listening to interest on Greg Monroe. And possibly, if crazy return, Middleton or Parker. Not sure what crazy is, but either of Middleton or Parker would look nice in green.

http://journaltimes.com/sports/basketball/bucks-beat-is-a-major-shakeup-coming/article_5c355e2d-58f8-554e-b6d6-1f5716f7fa3e.html

It's starting to heat up... But like someone said in one of the other threads, Danny should think hard before making a move just to make a move, we have a nice base and FAs may want to start coming to Boston...