Celtics vs. Heat, Round 3 Discussion

Who you got?


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Saints Rest

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I'm old enough to have seen the big three.. McHale, Parish and Bird play in the old Boston Garden in an obstructed seat as I recall. It was the only Celtics game I saw live as a kid I believe.. my Dad took me and he wasn't/isn't really a basketball fan. The Celts played the Sixers and Charles Barkley had a quiet 34 points or something like that. Not exactly sure what year that was.. but I also have vague memories of listening to the finals on the radio in the car with my family as well. I used to listen to the Celtics on the radio all the time with Johnny Most.. back in the day when the Celtics rarely, if ever, lost two in a row. All that to say I'm sort of old I guess.
Here's my "sort of old" story, Celtics-style. One of the first Celtics games I remember going to was in 1979, Bird's first year. I think it was this game against the Warriors. The thing I recall distinctly about that game was the Warriors backup center, Clifford Ray, seemed like an unknown star, with 10/7/4 in just 21 minutes. He seemed ot play with such energy and joy, especially compared to their starting C who seemed like such a flaccid lump.
Robert Parish
 

NomarsFool

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One of the things that still makes me nervous is that their offense still ends up with a lot of 3PAs. Those look awesome when they are falling, but quickly become a problem when they don't. I think Tatum's shoulder is bothering him with his stepback/side steps 3s as his 3P shot seems awful right now.
 

Auger34

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I think the defense is getting too much credit. They play hard and that counts for an awful lot but Miami has been outrageously cold. Guys like Strus throwing up bricks for 2 games is not just defensive pressure. That game 5 first half is an entirely different story and looks a lot like some of the blowouts against us if they shoot the ball at all. I know I am being a pessimist but I can’t shake the idea that we aren’t over some insurmountable hump that Miami can’t overcome if they just see the ball go through the net a few times
But, how much of the cold spell is due to lack of execution and how much is due to tired legs and injuries?

Again, from what I’ve watched, I think it’s pretty hard to take the “lack of execution” side. The only two players that have been on the Heat injury report consistently that havent looked like complete corpses out there are Gabe Vincent and PJ Tucker. And Tucker’s offensive load is catch and shoot 3’s and driving the occasional close out. The others (Lowry, Butler, Strus, Herro) look like their legs are totally shot.
 

Cesar Crespo

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The defense might be getting too much credit but Miami is also a team full of one way role players. If they aren't shooting well, they aren't going to win. Unless of course, the Celtics turn the ball over 20 times.

Even if the Heat shoot well, there's a chance they won't win. The C's are the ones living at the line this series. Outside of Butler, Miami can't generate FTs and Butler has been dog shit for 2.5 games.

I think the C's are either 1. A much better team than Miami or 2. A matchup nightmare for Miami. Or both.
 

lars10

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Here's my "sort of old" story, Celtics-style. One of the first Celtics games I remember going to was in 1979, Bird's first year. I think it was this game against the Warriors. The thing I recall distinctly about that game was the Warriors backup center, Clifford Ray, seemed like an unknown star, with 10/7/4 in just 21 minutes. He seemed ot play with such energy and joy, especially compared to their starting C who seemed like such a flaccid lump.
Robert Parish
Huh.. I thought it was going to be chamberlain given all the talk with him on the warriors..

Fun fact.. I went to a basketball camp in the 90s and Clifford Ray was one of the instructors. He was a really nice guy as I recall. Another one was Roy Tarpley.. before he got kicked out of the league.
 

benhogan

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Nov 2, 2007
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One of the things that still makes me nervous is that their offense still ends up with a lot of 3PAs. Those look awesome when they are falling, but quickly become a problem when they don't. I think Tatum's shoulder is bothering him with his stepback/side steps 3s as his 3P shot seems awful right now.
Tatum, Brown, Horford, PP, Grant have the greenest of green lights on catch/shoot 3s.
We should be comfortable living with the %s

ALSO any offensive possession that doesn't end up as a turnover is a small win ;)
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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There's also nothing really wrong with "relying on the three-pointer" if they're being attempted by high-percentage shooters who are wide open, relatively late in the clock (or even not), driven by a drive-and-kick offense. Guys like Grant, PP, Al, etc., have big sample sizes of being near-40% three-point shooters and if you hit about 40% of your threes in the NBA at high volume, you win a lot of the time.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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3. Some reversion on the 3pt shooting has to happen eventually. They aren't THIS bad.
MIA is shooting 31.2% from 3P for the entire playoffs and I wouldn't consider ATL and PHI to be defensive juggernauts (although PHI allowed only 29.9% from 3P land in the playoffs this year, which is the best 3P% against mark in the of the 16 playoff teams).
 

Nator

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This is going to be a slaughter. I appreciate the eyes on the prize, don't get cocky, concern around here, but allow me to slightly alter Silky Johnson's famous quote.

"What can I say about the 2022 Miami Heat that hasn't already been said about Afghanistan? It's bombed out and depleted."
 

CaptainLaddie

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Two thoughts:

1) The Celtics swept the Nets, a team featuring one of the eight best players of all time and arguably the best ballhandler of all time. They then went 7 with the Bucks, but realistically, the Celtics could have won 6 of those games -- the Bucks really only could have won 3 (maybe 4 if you include game 4, but the Celtics obliterated them in the 4th). Only game 1 was a bad loss. They're now up 3-2 on the Heat, and very well could have won 4 of these games, and the Heat probably could only have won 2 of them. What I"m saying is this team probably could have been 12-2 right now in these playoffs -- it's not really that crazy to say. This is against some of the best teams in the East, probably the three best teams that aren't the Celtics, which says a lot about the gauntlet they've had to face versus the Heat in the first two rounds.

2) The Heat fans in my life don't even want to watch this game. They're assuming the worst and are worried this is the start of a new East dynasty, a coronation.
 

reggiecleveland

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Two thoughts:

1) The Celtics swept the Nets, a team featuring one of the eight best players of all time and arguably the best ballhandler of all time.
Sorry, man, but this is hardly a given, especially how mildly physical defense threw him off the last series. No way I rank KD above any of the following.
Bird
Magic
MJ
Wilt
Russ
LBJ
Kareem
Kobe
Duncan
Hakeem

He has shared the era with guys arguably better, Curry, Gianis,
 

azsoxpatsfan

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Sorry, man, but this is hardly a given, especially how mildly physical defense threw him off the last series. No way I rank KD above any of the following.
Bird
Magic
MJ
Wilt
Russ
LBJ
Kareem
Kobe
Duncan
Hakeem

He has shared the era with guys arguably better, Curry, Gianis,
It’s absolutely not a given that he’s top 8, but KD is better than Kobe
 

nighthob

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3. Some reversion on the 3pt shooting has to happen eventually. They aren't THIS bad.
Miami's biggest problem is that their path to victory runs through ball pressure, turnovers, transition scoring. And that's an exhausting way to play basketball. Especially for an older/limited athleticism team. And it's harder to shoot treys when you're flat out exhausted.
 

Saints Rest

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Sorry, man, but this is hardly a given, especially how mildly physical defense threw him off the last series. No way I rank KD above any of the following.
Bird
Magic
MJ
Wilt
Russ
LBJ
Kareem
Kobe
Duncan
Hakeem

He has shared the era with guys arguably better, Curry, Gianis,
Oh please don’t let this thread turn into another argument about top-10/15/20/25 of all time.
 

DJnVa

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Is this about how many foul calls Butler is going to get in an elimination game?
Meh--I'd think, if you buy the whole "NBA manipulates these things", that the best outcome for the NBA is a Celtics team winning tonight, getting a few extra days rest, and then facing the Warriors.
 

reggiecleveland

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Meh--I'd think, if you buy the whole "NBA manipulates these things", that the best outcome for the NBA is a Celtics team winning tonight, getting a few extra days rest, and then facing the Warriors.
Yup

Two Pistons titles while MJ was clearly the chosen one still has me doubting the NBA manipulated/manipulates things.

Edit
Plus the Knicks being bad for 20 years
 
Last edited:

joe dokes

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Miami's biggest problem is that their path to victory runs through ball pressure, turnovers, transition scoring. And that's an exhausting way to play basketball. Especially for an older/limited athleticism team. And it's harder to shoot treys when you're flat out exhausted.
That is exactly right.
 

Jimbodandy

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Yup

Two Pistons titles while MJ was clearly the chosen one still has me doubting the NBA manipulated/manipulates things.

Edit
Plus the Knicks being bad for 20 years
I don't think that the love child of Red Auerbach and Jerry West could make the Knicks into a regular contender with that shitbird owning the team.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Jan 15, 2004
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The Heat having actual fans is far more objectionable than ranking KD top 8, IMO.
Don’t let the half empty lower bowl of the arena fool you. They are “officially” sellouts but many/most of those seats are owned by ticket brokers who are asking astronomical prices for them and not budging so they eat them rather than cheapen their product (the highly sought after ticket). I was looking for Game 2 last week and what is a nice Loge seat in Boston was going for $2k…..for one ticket. Obstructed standing room was $450 a ticket.

It’s not Boston but the Heat have a surprisingly strong base down here.
 

TripleOT

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Here's my "sort of old" story, Celtics-style. One of the first Celtics games I remember going to was in 1979, Bird's first year. I think it was this game against the Warriors. The thing I recall distinctly about that game was the Warriors backup center, Clifford Ray, seemed like an unknown star, with 10/7/4 in just 21 minutes. He seemed ot play with such energy and joy, especially compared to their starting C who seemed like such a flaccid lump.
Robert Parish
Robert Parish.

Clifford Ray had impossibly long arms. He was once called to Sea World to extract a metal screw from a Dolphin‘s stomach. He did a good job as big man coach for the Celtics from 2005 to 2010, especially with Leon Powe.
 

Red Averages

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Heat came to play.
Celtics had chances and couldn’t convert. Tied with 3 min left at home is a fine spot.

I will preemptively say I am likely a 50/50 chance to get banned from this site after the horseshit EJ is about to spew without repercussion yet again.
 

CaptainLaddie

dj paul pfieffer
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where the darn libs live
Yeah, if Butler’s shooting 4/8 from three you can chalk it up for a loss. Defensively you want Butler shooting treys, but tonight they were going in.
As I said, he had a game for the ages. 47 points. He came to play tonight, good on him. I love the guy because he's a fucking bully and a tough motherfucker, and he showed out.
 

chilidawg

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As I said, he had a game for the ages. 47 points. He came to play tonight, good on him. I love the guy because he's a fucking bully and a tough motherfucker, and he showed out.
Agreed, all the talk about him being an asshole, he's an asshole I'd roll with any day. Tip of the hat to Lowry and Strus as well, those guys made tough shots all night. Wasted a show from D. White unfortunately. I like our game 7 chances though.
 

NomarsFool

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I get that you like the odds of Butler shooting 3s, but you don't have to make them absolutely easy shots. It's a shame they wasted a brillian performance from Derrick White. While he had some nice plays, this was not a great Smart game. Hard to understand how they couldn't get Tatum the ball more.
 

Ed Hillel

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Heat came to play, Boston choked it away at the end going hero ball and getting away from what got them back in the game. That Marcus 24 second dribble shoot possession was the turning point. Then Jaylen did his free throw thing and made a poor decision on the charge (gotta take the open 3 in that situation).

As well as Miami played, you need to win that game, period. Even if they win Sunday, I doubt they have enough rest going in against Golden State. Between this and Game 3, in particular, they fucking blew a golden opportunity to come in refreshed against the hottest team in the league.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Jimmy Butler is a very good player, but he is not in the same universe as Giannis or Durant as a scorer. You absolutely cover him singly, and he's not getting 40 against the Celtics' defenders barring unsustainably hot shooting.
2 times in 6 games.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Butler just had himself a game for the ages.
Lowry and Strus with a bunch of timely threes throughout the game too. I don’t think we played bad at all but the Heat kept answering.

Enough about the offiicials too. Both teams defended aggressivsly and the fouls were 28-27. The one egregious one was the Tatum push off and they knew it and gave us the make up invisible illegal screen on Strus the very next possession.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Miami came to play, the Celtics not so much.

This was a shitty game. The officiating was awful. Plenty of terrible calls against the Celtics, but this game felt like one of those where Miami had plenty to complain about as well.

Once again, the Celtics were a turnoverfest in the first quarter, and, at the same time, they let Miami crash the offensive glass. Endind the quarter down 7, a hole they were just never really able to climb out of.

The rest of the game basically followed the same pattern: Celtics would put together a run of good play to close the deficit, them Miami would bounce back. Celtics would fight back to a near tie/tie/small lead, then make a couple of fucking dumb turnovers or do some other stupid thing, or just let up and allow the Heat to go on a run.

Down the very stretch run of the game, the Heat were 100% able to execute their offense, such as it is, and the Celtics were not. Butler dropped 47.

Tatum and Brown, who had great second quarters, and had 18 points each at the half, were largely missing in action for the whole second half. Tatum scored 30 total, but his 12 second half points were as quiet as they get - and his 7 turnovers could have been the difference in the game.

Brown scored 2 points in the second half - two - and got to the line with the scored tied at 99 and missed both.

The best Celtice in the 4th and in the whole game was Derrick White. He scored 22 on 7-14 shooting. Also 5 assists, 3 steals, 1 block, and unlike most of his teammates, zero turnovers. He scored 8 of the Celtics first 10 points in the 4th, had some key assists, and after Marcus stupidly wasted an offsenive posession, came back with a steal.

Al Horford played his far and away worst game of the playoffs. Got in early foul trouble in the first and second quarters so didn't play a lot. Missed his first 5 shots and shot 1-6 overall. He did have 9 rebounds and 5 assists, but also 3 turnovers. He only really looked good for a 2-3 minute stretch midways throught he fourth where he hit his 3 and had a couple of great assists.

It looked like Ime was about to sub Rob in for Al in the 4th when Al started to get going, and Ime decied to call Rob back - Rob did not play in the 4th. That will be second guessable, as Al didn;t do anything useful over the rest of the game and Rob had scored 10 in the third as the Celtics rediscovered him as a lob threat.

All in all, it was another winnable game the Celtics choked away with their own poor play.

I expect the Heat to win fairly easily on Sunday night, now that Butler has it going again, they will be at home, and if healthy, Miami can be trusted to want it more.
 

Mystic Merlin

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Miami came to play, the Celtics not so much.

This was a shitty game. The officiating was awful. Plenty of terrible calls against the Celtics, but this game felt like one of those where Miami had plenty to complain about as well.

Once again, the Celtics were a turnoverfest in the first quarter, and, at the same time, they let Miami crash the offensive glass. Endind the quarter down 7, a hole they were just never really able to climb out of.

The rest of the game basically followed the same pattern: Celtics would put together a run of good play to close the deficit, them Miami would bounce back. Celtics would fight back to a near tie/tie/small lead, then make a couple of fucking dumb turnovers or do some other stupid thing, or just let up and allow the Heat to go on a run.

Down the very stretch run of the game, the Heat were 100% able to execute their offense, such as it is, and the Celtics were not. Butler dropped 47.

Tatum and Brown, who had great second quarters, and had 18 points each at the half, were largely missing in action for the whole second half. Tatum scored 30 total, but his 12 second half points were as quiet as they get - and his 7 turnovers could have been the difference in the game.

Brown scored 2 points in the second half - two - and got to the line with the scored tied at 99 and missed both.

The best Celtice in the 4th and in the whole game was Derrick White. He scored 22 on 7-14 shooting. Also 5 assists, 3 steals, 1 block, and unlike most of his teammates, zero turnovers. He scored 8 of the Celtics first 10 points in the 4th, had some key assists, and after Marcus stupidly wasted an offsenive posession, came back with a steal.

Al Horford played his far and away worst game of the playoffs. Got in early foul trouble in the first and second quarters so didn't play a lot. Missed his first 5 shots and shot 1-6 overall. He did have 9 rebounds and 5 assists, but also 3 turnovers. He only really looked good for a 2-3 minute stretch midways throught he fourth where he hit his 3 and had a couple of great assists.

It looked like Ime was about to sub Rob in for Al in the 4th when Al started to get going, and Ime decied to call Rob back - Rob did not play in the 4th. That will be second guessable, as Al didn;t do anything useful over the rest of the game and Rob had scored 10 in the third as the Celtics rediscovered him as a lob threat.

All in all, it was another winnable game the Celtics choked away with their own poor play.

I expect the Heat to win fairly easily on Sunday night, now that Butler has it going again, they will be at home, and if healthy, Miami can be trusted to want it more.
No glass jaw reference, what the hell?

Anyways, judging by the reactions from neutral fans I know the officiating was a huge turnoff. 55 fucking fouls? Are they trying to drive neutral viewers away?
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Heat apparently decided they weren't going to let JT and JB beat them as they sent the double-team every time they started their moves. JT with 7 TOs; JB with 4. Also, both Smart (15 shots; 1-9 on 3Ps) and White (14) had more shots tham JB (13) and JT (12 but 30 points).

Heat hit some ridiculous shots too.

I guess the Cs can't do anything the easy way. At least we have another game to watch.
 

Red Averages

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I expect the Heat to win fairly easily on Sunday night, now that Butler has it going again, they will be at home, and if healthy, Miami can be trusted to want it more.
The Heat are +120. I look forward to hearing about how much you’ve won when the Heat take Game 7. Given the mismatch in market odds vs your own I expect you’ll be making a large wager.
 

CaptainLaddie

dj paul pfieffer
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where the darn libs live
My major bitch about the refs isn't even on the court. It's off it. The Heat bench -- Markieff Morris, specifically -- is on the court EVERY PLAY. Usually it's 2-3 guys, but Morris is ALWAYS on the court. It's ridiculous, limits how the Celtics can play, and it's such an easy tech to call.