Celtics vs. Nets, Round 1 Discussion

Who is your preferred opponent?

  • Cavs - I want an easy sweep

    Votes: 125 74.9%
  • Nets - I want to end their season / I like competitive basketball / DRAMA!!

    Votes: 42 25.1%

  • Total voters
    167
  • Poll closed .

PedroKsBambino

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What I meant to say was that he was great value on his cheap contract then when he signed his monster deal he spent the latter half of that contract being overpaid for what he provided.
Totally agree.
The fact that anyone would still be saying the bolded at this point is sort of odd. Simmons has missed a ton of time at this point and there's no way anyone knows what he'll look like when he comes back... IF he ever comes back. To me, Simmons' issue isn't with his back... his issues seem to be more mental than physical.. and that's getting brushed under the rug like that will all just go away. There seems to be just as much evidence of Simmons never playing again as there is evidence that he'll come back as an all star at this point. Perhaps that's going too far in the other direction, but I think his mental health has been severely overlooked here.
Not at all—as a couple of us have said there’s no way to know what he will be going forward. But that uncertainty cuts both ways; he might be all nba again or he might be unable to play. What I believe HRB and I are saying is every team will take a shot on that upside…not that anyone is sure it will come to fruition. Pretty sure no one has doubted there is mental stuff to consider as well as physical here.
 

Saints Rest

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I feel like a couple years ago, maybe even as recently as this past offseason, there was discussion on this board about Simmons' possible fit on this team, perhaps via a trade with Smart as the centerpiece. At the time, IIRC, the feeling was that Simmons was the better defender and better passer, and his reluctance to shoot from the outside would be a benefit on a team with the two Jays.

A year later, Smart seems to have improved both his defense and his passing, while reducing the number of 3PAs. Meanwhile, the questions about Simmons' heart, where Marcus clearly had him beat, have only gotten greater, so much so as to pretty much nullify, in the views of many, any positives that Simmons could offer.
 

lovegtm

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If the league wanted a competitive series, they would have put in the fix in game 3. Foster can send Durant to the line 25 times; it won't change the fact he'll get the shit beat out of him and say "screw this" partway through the 3rd quarter.

Nets are going to need a lot of unsustainable shotmaking to win this one imo, particularly with Rob back.
 

HomeRunBaker

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The fact that anyone would still be saying the bolded at this point is sort of odd. Simmons has missed a ton of time at this point and there's no way anyone knows what he'll look like when he comes back... IF he ever comes back. To me, Simmons' issue isn't with his back... his issues seem to be more mental than physical.. and that's getting brushed under the rug like that will all just go away. There seems to be just as much evidence of Simmons never playing again as there is evidence that he'll come back as an all star at this point. Perhaps that's going too far in the other direction, but I think his mental health has been severely overlooked here.
I don’t think that’s going to far at all. The chance that Ben goes Larry Sanders on us is greater than zero.
 

Saints Rest

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If the league wanted a competitive series, they would have put in the fix in game 3. Foster can send Durant to the line 25 times; it won't change the fact he'll get the shit beat out of him and say "screw this" partway through the 3rd quarter.

Nets are going to need a lot of unsustainable shotmaking to win this one imo, particularly with Rob back.
Speaking of Rob, do we think Ime will keep him coming off the bench in Game 4? Or is it time to get back to the regular season starting 5? Put another way, is it smarter to match up Theis with the Nets' bench players, including Claxton or leave him matched up with Drummond?
 

lovegtm

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Speaking of Rob, do we think Ime will keep him coming off the bench in Game 4? Or is it time to get back to the regular season starting 5? Put another way, is it smarter to match up Theis with the Nets' bench players, including Claxton or leave him matched up with Drummond?
I bet we see him start. They seem really, really happy with his progress, and he wasn't on the injury report.
 

DJnVa

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Speaking of Rob, do we think Ime will keep him coming off the bench in Game 4? Or is it time to get back to the regular season starting 5? Put another way, is it smarter to match up Theis with the Nets' bench players, including Claxton or leave him matched up with Drummond?
I'd think they keep doing what's worked so far in this series. And if it ends tonight, they can make the changes when they start fresh in the next round.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Theis is a good fit in this Nets matchup. The Nets are leaving him open in the short midrange, probably because they have their hands full with the rest of the C's, and he is just burying those shots. He's 11 of 15 from 2 in the series, 6 of 8 inside 3 feet and 5 of 7 between 3 and 16 feet. Better defensive teams can maybe give him more attention.

I'd start Theis and bring Rob off the bench, increasing his minutes to 24-ish. Unless the Celtics think getting him back into the starting lineup is an important part of getting him ready for the next round. Then I'd start him.
 

Kliq

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Theis is a good fit in this Nets matchup. The Nets are leaving him open in the short midrange, probably because they have their hands full with the rest of the C's, and he is just burying those shots. He's 11 of 15 from 2 in the series, 6 of 8 inside 3 feet and 5 of 7 between 3 and 16 feet. Better defensive teams can maybe give him more attention.

I'd start Theis and bring Rob off the bench, increasing his minutes to 24-ish. Unless the Celtics think getting him back into the starting lineup is an important part of getting him ready for the next round. Then I'd start him.
My guess is the Nets, as a hail-mary attempt, are going to play incredibly small or use Blake. Either way I'd think that the optimal lineup would be Grant/Smart/Brown/Tatum/Horford since that gives you the most shooting/switchability on defense.
 

Senator Donut

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Imaging being Curry and Drummond as key contributors for a title contender, but having the Ben Simmons situation hanging over their heads waiting for him to be traded only to find out they’re in the trade because Thybulle won’t get vaccinated.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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The fact that anyone would still be saying the bolded at this point is sort of odd. Simmons has missed a ton of time at this point and there's no way anyone knows what he'll look like when he comes back... IF he ever comes back. To me, Simmons' issue isn't with his back... his issues seem to be more mental than physical.. and that's getting brushed under the rug like that will all just go away. There seems to be just as much evidence of Simmons never playing again as there is evidence that he'll come back as an all star at this point. Perhaps that's going too far in the other direction, but I think his mental health has been severely overlooked here.
Here's two other ways of looking at this.

(1) If Simmons were a FA without a contract and willing to play on a one-year minimum deal, I don't think it's controversial that every team in the league would sign him. Perhaps the more interesting question is what he contract would he get if he were a FA starting next year. I'm guessing that teams like IND or PDX might break the bank for him (as they have few other avenues to getting that type of talent) but we'll never know.

(2) Is Simmons a negative value on his current contract? If I were LAL, I'd trade RWB for him (plus money) and if I were WAS, I'd trade Porzingas for him. Would CHA trade GH for him? Wall for Simmons (plus money)?

Now if Simmons has an entire offseason to rehab and still isn't playing by next season, then BRK is really f'd.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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I'm thinking #1 tonight, even if those are green-colored glasses talking. Cs are flying high, Nets are not, and Nets don't strike me as a "why not us" kind of team. If the Cs put up a 40-point first quarter, Nets peace out, I think.
 

snowmanny

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I will have zero level of surprise if Durant goes off for a more efficient 40, and I have zero expectation of him quitting and giving up. He was frustrated and trying things that didn't work and I obviously hope that happens again. Kyrie might mail it in but I don't see KD that way.

Either way I think the Celtics win, and probably comfortably. Celtics are simply better and not really a take the foot off the gas type of team.

Edit-and whatever KD does, I predict Tatum will be better. Again.
 

Cellar-Door

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Yeah, KD is not a guy who quits, he plays hard all the time, he may get frustrated, game 3 he was trying to adjust by being the playmaker, he was playing hard on D despite being exhausted.

Kyrie is the guy who would rather lose quietly and let someone else miss shots and take the blame.
 

SoxFanInPdx

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I think the C's win this handily tonight. Nets have been playing like they don't want to be there and I think we're witnessing Tatum just being the type of player right now where there are no answers for him. Smart will have a huge game tonight as well I feel.

Plus, I think Simmons just quitting on them has more than likely made that Nets locker room unbearable. They're finished.
 

nighthob

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Unfortuntaly for Ben Simmons, The Batman has already declared himself.
View: https://twitter.com/Celt_Ike/status/1516952828304056320?s=20&t=NvFhDRCK2F1z9Cc14WTeKA
NBA Twitter has been lobbing some bombs in Simmons's direction. Some of the video clips that people found for him are truly hilarious. I have a sneaking suspicion that the BS Era in Brooklyn is going to end before it ever starts. I can see the Nets sending him to an NBA backwater to build like Boston (improve the roleplayers around their two stars).
 

lovegtm

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That's what makes the tweet so perfect
Didn't he once say that he saw the score of individual games as irrelevant, because they all flowed together as part of one long-running, eternal game of basketball?

Possibly my mind made that up in its Kyrie simulator, but I feel like it's real.
 

RorschachsMask

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Didn't he once say that he saw the score of individual games as irrelevant, because they all flowed together as part of one long-running, eternal game of basketball?

Possibly my mind made that up in its Kyrie simulator, but I feel like it's real.
Kyrie quotes: real or fake would be a tremendous drinking game. Also sounds like something straight out of How I Met Your Mother.
 

Red Averages

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We still haven't seen a game where the Celtics come out lights out and/or the Nets aren't shooting 40%+ from 3. My guess is the Celtics are very relaxed tonight and the shots are a bit easier to hit as the Nets don't give it their all on defense if they fall behind. Meanwhile the Nets can easily feel like they need to force things given how poor their offense has been, play a bit tight and shoot 25% from 3 heading into the half....
 

HomeRunBaker

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I think the C's win this handily tonight. Nets have been playing like they don't want to be there and I think we're witnessing Tatum just being the type of player right now where there are no answers for him. Smart will have a huge game tonight as well I feel.

Plus, I think Simmons just quitting on them has more than likely made that Nets locker room unbearable. They're finished.
That last paragraph assumes anyone in that locker room expected Simmons to play his exhibition season during the playoffs. I’ve always found that highly unlikely since the regular season ended.
 

Red Averages

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That last paragraph assumes anyone in that locker room expected Simmons to play his exhibition season during the playoffs. I’ve always found that highly unlikely since the regular season ended.
I do find it a bit awkward that not only does he dress to standout, but he sits in a prime bench seat every time. Why not sit in the 2nd row, or on the far side if you want to be supportive, rather than making it about you? I can't imagine going out all, being down 3-0 and this guy sitting there in a clown outfit and not losing it.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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I do find it a bit awkward that not only does he dress to standout, but he sits in a prime bench seat every time. Why not sit in the 2nd row, or on the far side if you want to be supportive, rather than making it about you? I can't imagine going out all, being down 3-0 and this guy sitting there in a clown outfit and not losing it.
Who says he wants to be supportive and not make it about him? The orange pants speak for themselves.
 

Marciano490

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I do find it a bit awkward that not only does he dress to standout, but he sits in a prime bench seat every time. Why not sit in the 2nd row, or on the far side if you want to be supportive, rather than making it about you? I can't imagine going out all, being down 3-0 and this guy sitting there in a clown outfit and not losing it.
Didn’t he date a Kardashian/Jenner? Feel like that’s all you need to know about that.
 

slamminsammya

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worm0082

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I have no idea how plausible this is, but I think if I’m the owner of the Nets I seriously look into terminating his contract for cause and have my army of high paid and powered lawyers suing him for whatever I’ve paid him + damages. I wouldn’t chance this bleeding over into next season. I don’t see anyway how this gets any better. I’d do it immediately the day after their season ends.
 

djbayko

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So there's acknowledgement that there are still mental hurdles. I don't know who was driving the messaging that Ben was going to play in the playoffs, but that was malpractice. If there's any hope of him playing again, he needed an offseason reset and fresh start with his new team. Now, who knows if even that is possible.
 

sezwho

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I have no idea how plausible this is, but I think if I’m the owner of the Nets I seriously look into terminating his contract for cause and have my army of high paid and powered lawyers suing him for whatever I’ve paid him + damages. I wouldn’t chance this bleeding over into next season. I don’t see anyway how this gets any better. I’d do it immediately the day after their season ends.
Many employers view mental health challenges this way, I'm not sure what the ultimate contract resolution would be in this case. On the other hand, we won't have to wait long to find out as its what happened with the 76ers. They stopped paying and demanded back wages, which the Nets are honoring. Ben doesn't get Nets paychecks, they go directly to the 76ers because of their grievance against him.

Its still possible that out of the limelight with a full offseason, mind and body heal enough to get him back on the court.

edit...what djbayko said.
 

greek_gawd_of_walks

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The Simmons thing is fascinating. I have my own mental hurdles I need to navigate, so I'm very sympathetic to a fault, but something isn't jiving here.

Simmons, while not mentally able to play the game he's paid to play, seems very comfortable being front and center, from the laughably memeable outfits, the "targeting game X" stories being leaked by whoever's camp, to eventually revealing that the last two months have been a dog and oversized point guard show. It seems completely counterintuitive to be unable to handle the pressure and the mental rigors of being an NBA player, all while basking in the fame, wealth and exposure that this type of status affords him. His conspicuous absence on the court is matched by his high visibility on the bench and the fact that everyone around the team is forced to talk daily about someone who won't be playing for them. Nash is clearly fed up with it. It's reminding me of this past season with Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay. From the front office acrimony to his immunized Joe Rogen experience and everything in between, the players, coaches and other team personnel were tired of talking about what Rodgers was doing when not between the hashmarks.

Extremely strange brew Brooklyn has created.
 

jmcc5400

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That last paragraph assumes anyone in that locker room expected Simmons to play his exhibition season during the playoffs. I’ve always found that highly unlikely since the regular season ended.
That seemed evident with every Nash press conference. The messaging on this was genuinely weird and counterproductive.
 

snowmanny

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Weird stuff over the years with Okafor (and Colangelo’s wife’s twitter) and then Fultz and then Simmons.

Probably just a coincidence and a lot of very high picks have weird careers but Phila has had some odd outcomes with some of those processed high picks.
 

Ed Hillel

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Glad someone finally said it. We still haven't seen anything actually pointing out the genesis of the back injury to begin with, have we?