Celtics vs. Warriors, NBA Finals

Who you got?

  • Celtics in 4

    Votes: 6 1.5%
  • Celtics in 5

    Votes: 18 4.6%
  • Celtics in 6

    Votes: 146 37.2%
  • Celtics in 7

    Votes: 127 32.4%
  • Warriors in 4

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • Warriors in 5

    Votes: 23 5.9%
  • Warriors in 6

    Votes: 56 14.3%
  • Warriors in 7

    Votes: 15 3.8%

  • Total voters
    392
  • Poll closed .

lexrageorge

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The refs job isn’t to look for marginal reasons to throw players out. It’s actually the exact opposite. Green would have had to kick or step on Jaylen in an aggressive manner to get tossed in that skirmish. No ref is throwing out a player for putting his legs on a guy as they are laying on the ground following a personal foul in an NBA Finals game. I know Celtics fans want to see that happen but could you imagine the uproar is that was Smart and Wiggins on the floor, Smart does what Draymond did, and got tossed? This damn server would explode lol.
Agree. The foul was correctly called, giving Jaylen 3 FT's (of which he made 2). Yeah, there was a scuffle, but it was quickly put out with no real implications. I wouldn't be surprised that the refs did tell either Kerr or Draymond that the T would be coming down the next infraction no matter what, but the Celtics 3Q made it all moot.
 

tbb345

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The refs job isn’t to look for marginal reasons to throw players out. It’s actually the exact opposite. Green would have had to kick or step on Jaylen in an aggressive manner to get tossed in that skirmish. No ref is throwing out a player for putting his legs on a guy as they are laying on the ground following a personal foul in an NBA Finals game. I know Celtics fans want to see that happen but could you imagine the uproar is that was Smart and Wiggins on the floor, Smart does what Draymond did, and got tossed? This damn server would explode lol.
You seem to be willfully ignoring the stuff that Draymond was doing before that to enhance your point. Sure, if it was just that one play and nothing else then he definitely didn’t deserve to be thrown out. (Of course he would have got a technical for the Brown play then but I digress)

But when you combine that play with the fact that he was out of control the entire game leading up to that foul, then I think it’s entirely appropriate to throw him out.
And if the roles switched and Smart got thrown out for doing the things Draymond did, I know I wouldn’t have complained. There’s only so much you can get away with
 

teddykgb

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Whining about Draymond not being tossed is completely pointless. It was never going to happen. I way more annoyed with the Grant Williams foul call on his tech than that play.

People asked what the Warriors could do and the answer was always have the Celtics implode and bury with shooting. We can’t afford to give away quarters against this team and we can’t afford to have everyone shooting poorly. This teams inability to tune out the refs is really hurting them. It’s hard but they can’t get stuck in that trap every series in these playoffs. They’re in the finals, they’re very good, but so is the other team and you can’t keep tossing games away in a 7 game series because the calls don’t go your way
 

Ed Hillel

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Here’s the play in question..Draymond clearly contorts his body to put his legs on top of Jaylen’s body (kind of using him like a stool, which is something I think anyone would consider disrespectful). Jaylen pushes one of them off then Draymond continues to antagonize….
I don’t know how that’s anything other than a tech on Draymond
Forget the tech, that’s a dirty ass play. Went low around thigh level with his ass as Jaylen was landing. He’s a true scumbag.
 

HomeRunBaker

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You seem to be willfully ignoring the stuff that Draymond was doing before that to enhance your point. Sure, if it was just that one play and nothing else then he definitely didn’t deserve to be thrown out. (Of course he would have got a technical for the Brown play then but I digress)

But when you combine that play with the fact that he was out of control the entire game leading up to that foul, then I think it’s entirely appropriate to throw him out.
And if the roles switched and Smart got thrown out for doing the things Draymond did, I know I wouldn’t have complained. There’s only so much you can get away with
I willingly ignore other plays that Draymond was involved in bc none of them were related to the nothingburger skirmish on the floor with Jaylen where on the Warrior boards they are complaining that Jaylen didn’t get a T for shoving Draymond in retaliation.
 

lovegtm

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....This teams inability to tune out the refs is really hurting them. It’s hard but they can’t get stuck in that trap every series in these playoffs. They’re in the finals, they’re very good, but so is the other team and you can’t keep tossing games away in a 7 game series because the calls don’t go your way
The tough part in this one is that a lot of the poor 2-point shooting and turnovers were due to the Warriors mugging the Cs inside the 3-point line. It was less arguing about calls, and more that it's hard to play offense when you're getting fouled, and then that snowballed.

Ime also needs to go smaller and switchier. He can stick to his 2-big+Grant guns, or he can win an NBA championship. Time to decide.
 

lars10

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Whining about Draymond not being tossed is completely pointless. It was never going to happen. I way more annoyed with the Grant Williams foul call on his tech than that play.

People asked what the Warriors could do and the answer was always have the Celtics implode and bury with shooting. We can’t afford to give away quarters against this team and we can’t afford to have everyone shooting poorly. This teams inability to tune out the refs is really hurting them. It’s hard but they can’t get stuck in that trap every series in these playoffs. They’re in the finals, they’re very good, but so is the other team and you can’t keep tossing games away in a 7 game series because the calls don’t go your way
How many calls have to not go their way before they can let it effect them? 10? 20? Because it was beyond egregious in the first half.
At what point can we start saying that NBA officiating needs to change and not blame the Celtics for not adjusting to it being shitty every game?

I'm amazed that young twenty something year olds are able to control themselves with how horrible NBA officiating is on a night by night basis.

And why is talking about Draymond not getting tossed pointless? It just goes to further the point that officiating should change and that letting a guy like him run around absolutely mugging people shouldn't be a thing. The adverse is to just accept that it is what it is and move on? Why should it just be accepted that he'll never get tossed in that situation?
 

benhogan

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Classic NBA officiated first half (Zarba has been particularly gruesome these playoffs) but man the turnovers were self-induced. Didn't even think GS played all that physical other than the Draymond nonsense. Smart was a special kind of awful, I imagine he will answer with his own brand of body shoving on Steph and better ball security. It's not like the Warriors' on-ball D was anywhere close to what Miami or Bucks played.

IME probably had his worst game of the playoffs with rotations. It's like he didn't watch Game 1 and see what worked. Not nearly the player or ball movement.

Don't really give a damn about 2 T's on Dray. Think he poses little threat on either side of the floor with his tough-guy act. He's kind of fraying at the edges of being washed. Actually need him on the floor since its once less guy Boston has to cover on the perimeter. Grant actually may have a small role to play here opposite Dray, Rob Williams was completely out to lunch last night.
 

Eddie Jurak

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The Celtics have the league's top defense and an offense that has been prone to turnoverfests throught the playoffs. Sometimes they take care of the ball, sometimes not.

In terms of going forward, I'm not (yet) worried about the Golden State offense or even the turnovers - the Celtics have at least some control over how they play defense and protect the ball.

What scares me is the way the Golden State defense locked down the Celtics offense. With 58 seconds left in the first quarter, Jayson Tatum hit a three to put the Celtics up 30-26. From then until Ime waved the white flag with 10:45 to go in the 4th, the Celtics were held to 34 points in 26:13 of game time. That's a 4-quarter 62-point pace. Turnovers were part of the problem, but their worst turnover quarter, the first (7 of their 18), was actually their best scoring quarter (30 points).

In the whole Celtic playoff run, there was only one other game where the Celtics were held below 40 for 2 straight quarters: Miami game 5, which the Celtics won 93-80. In that game they scored 37 in the first half, still better than yesterday's debacle. More importantly, they came out immediately with an 8-0 run to open the third in that game.

Golden State made some defensive changes, like Klay on Horford, that were extremely effective.

Maybe Ime can figure out a counter to what GS did in time for game 3 - as great a coaxh as he has been, in game offensive adjustments are not necessarily his thing.

He'd better. The alternative is that GS defense has the ability to shut the Celtics offense off at will, and this series is already over for all practical intents.

Game 3 on Wednesday will answer that question.
 
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lovegtm

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The Celtics have the league's top defense and an offense that has been prone to turnoverfests throught the playoffs. Sometimes they take care of the ball, sometimes not.

In terms of going forward, I'm not (yet) worried about the Golden State offense or even the turnovers - the Celtics have at least some control over how they play defense and protect the ball.

What scares me is the way the Golden State defense locked down the Celtics offense. With 58 seconds left in the first quarter, Jayson Tatum hit a three to put the Celtics up 30-26. From then until Ime waved the white flag with 10:45 to go in the 4th, the Celtics were held to 34 points in 26:13 of game time. That's a 4-quarter 62-point pace. Turnovers were part of the problem, but their worst turnover quarter, the first (7 of their 18), was actually their best scoring quarter (30 points).

In the whole Celtic playoff run, there was only one other game where the Celtics were held below 40 for 2 straight quarters: Miami game 5, which the Celtics won 93-80. In that game they scored 37 in the first half, still better than yesterday's debacle. More importantly, they came out immediately with an 8-0 run to open the third in that game.

Golden State made some defensive changes, like Klay on Horford, that were extremely effective.

Maybe Ime can figure out a counter to what GS did in time for game 3 - as great a coaxh as he has been, in game offensive adjustments are not necessarily his thing.

He'd better. The alternative is that GS defense has the ability to shut the Celtics offense off at will, and this series is already over for all practical intents.

Game 3 on Wednesday will answer that question.
White and Pritchard need to play. A lot. As benhogan said, it looked like Ime tried to actively ignore what had worked in game 1 in terms of smaller lineups, switching, and spacing.

It really sucks to be the team with the inflexible coach, but Ime has earned some benefit of the doubt, so we'll see what he does now that he can't close his eyes and pretend the Cs can just give a good effort and sweep. Have to actually coach.
 

Eddie Jurak

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White and Pritchard need to play. A lot. As benhogan said, it looked like Ime tried to actively ignore what had worked in game 1 in terms of smaller lineups, switching, and spacing.

It really sucks to be the team with the inflexible coach, but Ime has earned some benefit of the doubt, so we'll see what he does now that he can't close his eyes and pretend the Cs can just give a good effort and sweep. Have to actually coach.
If they play as ineffectively as they did in game 2, it won't matter.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Golden State made some defensive changes, like Klay on Horford, that were extremely effective.
After MIA got away with playing Strus on Horford, I wondered when Kerr was going to switch Klay or Poole or Curry on him.

Last night reminded me of the MIA series: JT driving into traffic and turning the ball over; Smart trying and not succeeding to get the ball to cutters. Also, a ton of ISO play and not very much ball movement.

But in the end:

BOS had 15 points off TO and 13 fast break points.

GSW had 33 points of TO and 12 fast break points.

Both defenses are good enough that whoever wins the points off TOs is probably going to win the game.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Biggest thing I saw (other than officiating making it virtually impossible to know what would happen on a reasonable playing field) is that Celtics should plan to go small often. Grant hasn't found a role in this series, and Celtics struggle at both ends----offensive with spacing and defensively keeping up wiht quickness and cutting---when they have more than 1 big out there.

I wonder if they try going with a big second unit and small as the starting/primary unit---trying to focus bigs on times when Curry is not out there. That reduces the risk a bit defensively and if you pair with a Jay being on bench to rest you might get some offensive rebounds to help at that end.

No question the turnovers are a factor; I thought trying to make cute passes in the paint was a big part of that, by my count it may have been six of those which resulted in turnovers. Generally this offense is best with the extra pass, but once they are in the paint unless someone is WIDE open or it's a lob to TL they should be shooting floaters/5 footers or driving to the rim, not trying for the cute pass down there. Warriors are small but have good hands and I suspect the book is you can get those passes against Celts, Miami also got a lot of those.
 

joe dokes

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View: https://mobile.twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1533654382117539841

Keith Smith
@KeithSmithNBA

Jaylen Brown on the mix up with Draymond Green: "I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do there. He's got his feet on my head and then he tried to pull my pants down. But that's what he does. He tries to muck the game up. He raised his physicality. We've got to raise ours."
10:37 PM · Jun 5, 2022
I'd have preferred, "when I'm older and my skills have deteriorated, I suppose I'll have to play dirty to earn playing time. Hopefully that's many years down the road."
 
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After MIA got away with playing Strus on Horford, I wondered when Kerr was going to switch Klay or Poole or Curry on him.

Last night reminded me of the MIA series: JT driving into traffic and turning the ball over; Smart trying and not succeeding to get the ball to cutters. Also, a ton of ISO play and not very much ball movement.

But in the end:

BOS had 15 points off TO and 13 fast break points.

GSW had 33 points of TO and 12 fast break points.

Both defenses are good enough that whoever wins the points off TOs is probably going to win the game.
Al made most of his career off of a good low post game, with his baby hooks and good footwork. If he has Klay on him he’s got to capitalize on a few of those opportunities. At least draw a double and get another guy an open shot. Or, at the very least, make Klay feel him so he’s impacted on offense. It’s a good move by Kerr, but it seems surmountable.
 

Curtis Pride

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After watching Green's foul on Jaylen, I see it more like Draymond trying to get under Jaylen's skin than anything else. I think this exposes one of the Celtics' weaknesses: some of them are easy to get upset. Sometimes the best revenge is stoically making their shots and not giving in to these antics. Teams are doing it because they work and help them win games. Take that part away, and teams have one fewer way of beating the Celtics. And if they want to play that, it also means they're not playing basketball. Let them win the non-basketball stuff and win on the basketball stuff.
 

lars10

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After watching Green's foul on Jaylen, I see it more like Draymond trying to get under Jaylen's skin than anything else. I think this exposes one of the Celtics' weaknesses: some of them are easy to get upset. Sometimes the best revenge is stoically making their shots and not giving in to these antics. Teams are doing it because they work and help them win games. Take that part away, and teams have one fewer way of beating the Celtics. And if they want to play that, it also means they're not playing basketball. Let them win the non-basketball stuff and win on the basketball stuff.
So the answer is to let green run over you? To disrespect you? A lot of what Green was doing went beyond simple disrespect too.. he was out there trying to injure people. The most egregious was his two hand shove to Smart’s back where he then also fell on him. There were zero whistles on that play.
 

Eddie Jurak

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After watching Green's foul on Jaylen, I see it more like Draymond trying to get under Jaylen's skin than anything else. I think this exposes one of the Celtics' weaknesses: some of them are easy to get upset. Sometimes the best revenge is stoically making their shots and not giving in to these antics. Teams are doing it because they work and help them win games. Take that part away, and teams have one fewer way of beating the Celtics. And if they want to play that, it also means they're not playing basketball. Let them win the non-basketball stuff and win on the basketball stuff.
The whole team needs to watch a video presentation of Giannis vs Al and Draymond vs Al in game 1, to understand how to do this.
 

HomeRunBaker

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After watching Green's foul on Jaylen, I see it more like Draymond trying to get under Jaylen's skin than anything else. I think this exposes one of the Celtics' weaknesses: some of them are easy to get upset. Sometimes the best revenge is stoically making their shots and not giving in to these antics. Teams are doing it because they work and help them win games. Take that part away, and teams have one fewer way of beating the Celtics. And if they want to play that, it also means they're not playing basketball. Let them win the non-basketball stuff and win on the basketball stuff.
That’s what Draymond does and it’s effective. It sucks as fan to see and it really sucks to be the opponent bc it is so effective. Basketball is a contact sport and you have to match the toughness both physically and mentally or you’re going to lose that battle. Green is really good at winning the mental battle and how we respond in G3, without the officials ensuring that it returns to Boston tied 1-1, is going to tell us a lot about our teams physical and mental toughness.
 

m0ckduck

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What scares me is the way the Golden State defense locked down the Celtics offense. With 58 seconds left in the first quarter, Jayson Tatum hit a three to put the Celtics up 30-26. From then until Ime waved the white flag with 10:45 to go in the 4th, the Celtics were held to 34 points in 26:13 of game time. That's a 4-quarter 62-point pace. Turnovers were part of the problem, but their worst turnover quarter, the first (7 of their 18), was actually their best scoring quarter (30 points).
The alternative is that GS defense has the ability to shut the Celtics offense off at will, and this series is already over for all practical intents.
I say this having not yet watched the game, but: doesn't the Celtics shooting 34% from 2 seem just as unsustainable as them shooting 50%+ from 3 in game 1? I get that GS had success walling off the paint, playing more physical, and got good minutes from GP2— and that all of these things are concerning for C's. But bad shooting from 2 mixed with decent shooting from 3 feels like a blip, less indicative than poor shooting from everywhere.

They had a similar game 1 vs. Bucks, hitting only 29% from 2pt range, and then bounced back to shoot 49% from 2 the next game. So, let's see...
 
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HomeRunBaker

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I say this having not yet watched the game, but: doesn't the Celtics shooting 34% from 2 seem just as unsustainable as them shooting 50%+ from 3 in game 1? I get that had GS had success in walling off the paint, playing more physical, and Gary Payton looked good— all of this is worrying moving forward. But bad shooting from 2 mixed with decent shooting from 3 feels like a blip, less indicative than poor shooting from everywhere.

They had a similar game 1 vs. Bucks, hitting only 29% from 2pt range, and then bounced back to shoot 49% from 2 the next game. So, let's see...
The most important part isn’t necessarily the shooting as we typically retreat 3 back to prevent breaks but in limiting the turnovers that do lead to the Warriors getting in transition. I also wouldn’t charscterize the Celtics shooting in each game as simple variance. I’m G1 the Warriors did not play physical or hard contest many of our shots……last night they were both physical AND contested hard much more frequently. The biggest difference was our turnovers leading to transition.
 

McBride11

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Honestly - what are we talking about? Green is playing dirty. I mean people admit the thing with Brown was a T but then argue he shouldn’t get a T because ‘nba finals.’
Uhh what?? Righttttt but then the Brown no touch foul is called.

So people are honestly with a straight face, arguing ‘nba finals let them play’ while watching phantom calls occur? Incredible
 

InstaFace

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I think you can when that player starts it. It might be different if Jaylen started it but Green was the instigator.
If you think that the way they landed was a reasonable consequence of a basketball play (albeit one with a foul called), then the next action was Jaylen petulantly throwing Green's leg off his shoulder, which resulted in a Green return shove from the floor. It's pretty easy to argue it either way, which is why it'd be a double tech in a regular-season game.
 

PedroKsBambino

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The most important part isn’t necessarily the shooting as we typically retreat 3 back to prevent breaks but in limiting the turnovers that do lead to the Warriors getting in transition. I also wouldn’t charscterize the Celtics shooting in each game as simple variance. I’m G1 the Warriors did not play physical or hard contest many of our shots……last night they were both physical AND contested hard much more frequently. The biggest difference was our turnovers leading to transition.
Yes, the turnovers---in particular in the second half where there wasn't a major refereeing aspect---simply kill this team. And it's not a new lesson. They need to be more decisive and also make better decisions---the two frustrating things for me are how often they dribble into doubles and lose the ball, and also (somewhat paradoxically) how often they get cute trying to pass in narrow windows. Both of those need to stop---if they focus on 4-5 out, and dribble penetration from whichever of Smart, White, Jays gets a one on one perimeter matchup they will generate consistently great looks...whether free throws, shots in the paint, or passing out to an open three. But they struggle to do that enough.
 

joe dokes

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I say this having not yet watched the game, but: doesn't the Celtics shooting 34% from 2 seem just as unsustainable as them shooting 50%+ from 3 in game 1? I get that GS had success walling off the paint, playing more physical, and got good minutes from GP2— and that all of these things are concerning for C's. But bad shooting from 2 mixed with decent shooting from 3 feels like a blip, less indicative than poor shooting from everywhere.

They had a similar game 1 vs. Bucks, hitting only 29% from 2pt range, and then bounced back to shoot 49% from 2 the next game. So, let's see...
That's an interesting point. While (relying on memory here) many of the missed 2s were (perhaps too) difficult shots, Horford missed a few from in close that I think he usually makes. In hindsight, 4 or 6 points seems inconsequential, but in real time, his low post success might have resulted in opening up some other avenues for wider offensive success.
 

BaseballJones

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Al made most of his career off of a good low post game, with his baby hooks and good footwork. If he has Klay on him he’s got to capitalize on a few of those opportunities. At least draw a double and get another guy an open shot. Or, at the very least, make Klay feel him so he’s impacted on offense. It’s a good move by Kerr, but it seems surmountable.
Al really isn’t a great post player but he honestly should have little problem scoring over Klay on the block.
 

RedOctober3829

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That’s what Draymond does and it’s effective. It sucks as fan to see and it really sucks to be the opponent bc it is so effective. Basketball is a contact sport and you have to match the toughness both physically and mentally or you’re going to lose that battle. Green is really good at winning the mental battle and how we respond in G3, without the officials ensuring that it returns to Boston tied 1-1, is going to tell us a lot about our teams physical and mental toughness.
It's a contact sport, but it's not a sport where you can start running people over like what he did with Grant Williams. I don't think Green had that big of an effect on how the Celtics played. He (and in turn the rest of the team) turned up the defensive intensity in terms of getting in Celtics players' airspaces and made everything uncomfortable for them. That's what I'd be worried about instead of Draymond's stupid antics. The fact that he said in the press conference that he deserved to get officiated differently is a joke. You don't deserve shit.

As an aside, the offense grinded to a halt way too much last night. It always does when they only focus on getting someone a favorable matchup by giving them iso opportunities. The mismatches will come organically if they play with pace and get their chances in the flow of the offense. Getting Tatum on Curry or whoever else they're trying to hunt only gives the Warriors time to come double him while others just stand around. Get the ball moving, cut hard without the ball, and good things happen. Getting into the iso game just doesn't work for this team.
 

Strike4

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He (and in turn the rest of the team) turned up the defensive intensity in terms of getting in Celtics players' airspaces and made everything uncomfortable for them.
The biggest issue I see is how the Celtics respond to this. By doing this Miami was able to turn it into a seven game series. Yes the officiating was bad but really all the Warriors did last night was play up and then make life difficult for players going to the basket. This resulted in all the turnovers and steals from ill-advised passes and drives, but also the poor entry passes into Horford when he had favorable matchups (for example). Seems like the word is out, the high-flying Warriors saw what Miami did and how badly it rattled the Celtics and did it themselves.
 

HomeRunBaker

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It's a contact sport, but it's not a sport where you can start running people over like what he did with Grant Williams. I don't think Green had that big of an effect on how the Celtics played. He (and in turn the rest of the team) turned up the defensive intensity in terms of getting in Celtics players' airspaces and made everything uncomfortable for them. That's what I'd be worried about instead of Draymond's stupid antics.
Actually he can, and he did…..and forced the official to make a call. Again, it was effective. I think you’re discounting his defensive effect last night. He had Jaylen under wraps and flustered when he couldn’t get by him. It was also pretty clear Jaylen wasn’t comfortable with the skirmish on the ground which again is something he has to learn to play through and be tougher.
 

RedOctober3829

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Actually he can, and he did…..and forced the official to make a call. Again, it was effective. I think you’re discounting his defensive effect last night. He had Jaylen under wraps and flustered when he couldn’t get by him. It was also pretty clear Jaylen wasn’t comfortable with the skirmish on the ground which again is something he has to learn to play through and be tougher.
I'm not discounting Draymond's actual defensive effort. He was really good in the actual basketball aspect of the game. When he was on Horford, he got up in him and didn't let him get the offense going at the top of the key. On Brown, he made it really hard to get to the lane. That stuff you have to give him credit for.

The crap I have issues with is him acting like a safety over the middle and running over people and the play on Brown. That's not basketball. Why do you expect Brown to just sit there on the ground and let Green use him as a footrest? That would be worse. It would signal to Green that he can do anything he wants with no pushback. Brown should be sticking up for himself in that situation. Green should have gotten a tech for that kind of shit but the refs were too scared to kick him out and "change the game".
 

Bleedred

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I'm of two minds with how to deal with Draymond's antics going forward. One the one hand, I see the merit in ignoring his shit talking and bullshit grabbing, instigating, etc. and going about your business in the normal flow of your offense and let all of it fall on deaf ears. On the other hand, I simply don't know that that is realistic, given that most NBA players are prideful alphas (at least relative to 99% of us) and ignoring that type of instigation and shit talking has to be unbelievably difficult. Does assigning Grant Williams* to Green, and returning the favor, beating him up physically, make sense? Is Grant up to it mentally (he certainly is physically)? Would it be a positive or too distracting for the Celtics to focus on something like that? I don't know the answers, but I'm curious to see how this unfolds.

*I think it would have to be Grant. He's physically stronger than Draymond and also the guy you could afford to lose if he and Draymond take it too far.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Actually he can, and he did…..and forced the official to make a call. Again, it was effective. I think you’re discounting his defensive effect last night. He had Jaylen under wraps and flustered when he couldn’t get by him. It was also pretty clear Jaylen wasn’t comfortable with the skirmish on the ground which again is something he has to learn to play through and be tougher.
This is how the sport is played at this level, at this time of year. Its why we have the Rambis story and countless other tales of players "doing whatever it takes to win" which includes just about anything they can get away with.

One thing for sure - if the C's lockerroom is as angry at Draymond Green as the fans, this series is likely over in favor of Golden State. He is good at this stuff and it works. An opponent is best served just ignoring it - and yes, that's part of being a competitor too.
 

TrapperAB

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Nov 25, 2002
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*I think it would have to be Grant. He's physically stronger than Draymond and also the guy you could afford to lose if he and Draymond take it too far.
Added benefit of mobilizing Grant for Operation Draymond Drop:

Grant possesses close to the same level of “I believe my own bullshit” crazy that Draymond has. Anyone else hounding Green and it would be seen as performative and whistled accordingly. Grant fouling and shoving and yelling into Green’s face would be a mild escalation of the shit he already does, though, so he’s more likely to get away with it for longer.
 

Strike4

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Jul 19, 2005
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One thing for sure - if the C's lockerroom is as angry at Draymond Green as the fans, this series is likely over in favor of Golden State. He is good at this stuff and it works. An opponent is best served just ignoring it - and yes, that's part of being a competitor too.
The best way to respond is to let Ime and Brad deal with the league people and make sure the team itself can render Green as ineffective as he was in Game 1. Green is already helping with his big mouth, Ime needs to make sure the players get it.
 

BigSoxFan

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May 31, 2007
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No retaliation. Nothing stupid. You get back at Draymond by sending him clips of Duck boats parading in Boston in a couple weeks. They have to file last night away and move on. Celtics need to funnel this anger into some dominant home performances. If Draymond being a dipshit causes your brain to shut off and make stupid passes, then you weren't winning a ring anyways.

This is exactly the point where guys like Horford and Smart need to lead. And those guys need to actually show up in the next few games because they sucked out loud last night.
 

RedOctober3829

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This is how the sport is played at this level, at this time of year. Its why we have the Rambis story and countless other tales of players "doing whatever it takes to win" which includes just about anything they can get away with.

One thing for sure - if the C's lockerroom is as angry at Draymond Green as the fans, this series is likely over in favor of Golden State. He is good at this stuff and it works. An opponent is best served just ignoring it - and yes, that's part of being a competitor too.
What did the Celtics do in Game 1 that compares to what Green did? It was how the sport was played at this level 30 years ago not now. I don't mind talking shit to an opponent or doing certain things to try to get under people's skin but Green took it to an unnecessary level last night. I'm glad Brown got up and got back in Green's face. Now it's time for the Celtics to respond in Game 3 by executing better and winning. I'd be more concerned with the 30 points the Warriors got off turnovers than Green's crap. Clean that up and it's a different ballgame.
 

tims4wins

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Jul 15, 2005
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No retaliation. Nothing stupid. You get back at Draymond by sending him clips of Duck boats parading in Boston in a couple weeks. They have to file last night away and move on. Celtics need to funnel this anger into some dominant home performances. If Draymond being a dipshit causes your brain to shut off and make stupid passes, then you weren't winning a ring anyways.

This is exactly the point where guys like Horford and Smart need to lead. And those guys need to actually show up in the next few games because they sucked out loud last night.
Totally agree. Due to the double standard Dray receives, if the Celts come out extra physical
and emotional they will get tagged with a bunch of early fouls and it will be counter productive. Moreover it would be the wrong mental mindset. Focus on executing, not turning it over, and getting stops. Not on aggravating Green.
 

PedroKsBambino

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No retaliation. Nothing stupid. You get back at Draymond by sending him clips of Duck boats parading in Boston in a couple weeks. They have to file last night away and move on. Celtics need to funnel this anger into some dominant home performances. If Draymond being a dipshit causes your brain to shut off and make stupid passes, then you weren't winning a ring anyways.

This is exactly the point where guys like Horford and Smart need to lead. And those guys need to actually show up in the next few games because they sucked out loud last night.
That's simplistic, though----he impacted the game with what he was doing.

What should have happened last night after it started getting out of hand is Grant Williams or Theis Rambis-ing Draymond. If that's how "the game is played" at this time of year, it goes both ways.

I agree you can't carry it into the next game, and you need to focus on execution. But both the players (ideally in-game) and the coaching staff (ideally in the media and with the league) have a role to play too in highlighting that kind of dirty and dangerous play. Look at how Warriors reacted publicly to the Dillon Brooks play on Payton---that's what Celtics ought to be doing right now.
 

RedOctober3829

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Totally agree. Due to the double standard Dray receives, if the Celts come out extra physical
and emotional they will get tagged with a bunch of early fouls and it will be counter productive. Moreover it would be the wrong mental mindset. Focus on executing, not turning it over, and getting stops. Not on aggravating Green.
Won't it be the opposite though? The league will see what happened in Game 2 and adjust. Celtics should expect to get some calls at home. I wouldn't be focused on aggravating Green, but I'd get more physical.
 

Fishy1

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Nov 10, 2006
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I think it's hard to accept that the NBA is refereed this way, but it's something you either have to do as a fan or stop watching, because it will drive you insane. Draymond should absolutely not be allowed to act that way, but he knew he would because of the situation: now 1-0 at home, with the first quarter going in the Celtics favor.

What can the Celtics do? The simplest answer is that Dray won't be allowed to get away with this stuff every game. I think of these technical fouls reviews as a little bit like mock executions: the NBA of course wants seven games and wants Draymond out there, but if he keeps behaving like this, he'll have to sit. He's been ejected in the finals before, after all. There's a certain point where the conversation becomes all about refereeing and the NBA knows that's not good for the product. You can get away with a refereeing hack-job like this in two games a series, but not three or four, or people stop watching.

The thing is, Draymond knows this too. In addition to being a psycho, he's very smart. He knew he would be able to get away with murder tonight, and he knows he won't be able to get away with the same nonsense in Boston, so he'll dial it back. And if he's not allowed to hook people on screens or bulldoze Grant Williams, the Warriors will have an enormous problem playing defense and getting Steph open because the Celtics are younger, more athletic, and on the whole the more talented and deep team.
 

lovegtm

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This is how the sport is played at this level, at this time of year. Its why we have the Rambis story and countless other tales of players "doing whatever it takes to win" which includes just about anything they can get away with.

One thing for sure - if the C's lockerroom is as angry at Draymond Green as the fans, this series is likely over in favor of Golden State. He is good at this stuff and it works. An opponent is best served just ignoring it - and yes, that's part of being a competitor too.
It sucks as a fan of the team whose advantage is in being somewhat better at basketball, as opposed to the team that has mastered the metagame of NBA gamesmanship.

I get what Green is doing and why it works; it's just garbage product.
 

lars10

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Jul 31, 2007
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Totally agree. Due to the double standard Dray receives, if the Celts come out extra physical
and emotional they will get tagged with a bunch of early fouls and it will be counter productive. Moreover it would be the wrong mental mindset. Focus on executing, not turning it over, and getting stops. Not on aggravating Green.
I'd go for one extremely hard screen just to see how he reacts. Nothing outside of actual basketball. Just run him into picks all first quarter.
 

benhogan

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Nov 2, 2007
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Go to the 16-minute mark of Dray's video where he talks about his thoughts on getting thrown out and Steve Javie's opinion
 

Van Everyman

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It sucks as a fan of the team whose advantage is in being somewhat better at basketball, as opposed to the team that has mastered the metagame of NBA gamesmanship.

I get what Green is doing and why it works; it's just garbage product.
Yes but I kind of respect it all the same. Maybe I'm just feeling like the C's are going to win anyway, but I admire that Dray pretty much said "If I don't push the limits and try to get into their heads, we're fucked" and went out and did it. I mean, it sucks for us, but I don't think they can out play this Celtics team in a fair fight and Dray realized that. So he took matters into his own hands. Will I be pissed if we lose the series because we couldn't figure out how to get back on our game and the refs let all this stuff go? For sure. But I do appreciate the compete in Green -- and am looking forward to see us adjust.

As for actual basketball stuff, I also think Kerr watched some Miami film and saw them clogging the lanes. A bunch of Tatum's TO's in the first half were guys jumping the lanes and expecting him to dish instead of finish. C's will have to adjust to that for sure.
 

tbb345

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Apr 23, 2010
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I'd go for one extremely hard screen just to see how he reacts. Nothing outside of actual basketball. Just run him into picks all first quarter.
The best thing to do is treat Draymond how Draymond treats others. Bully the bully. Try to get in his head and jostle him around.

As with most other agitators and people of that ilk, Draymond can dish it out but he can’t handle it. He will absolutely lose his cool or do something stupid. Just have to wait and allow him to self combust
 

lars10

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It sucks as a fan of the team whose advantage is in being somewhat better at basketball, as opposed to the team that has mastered the metagame of NBA gamesmanship.

I get what Green is doing and why it works; it's just garbage product.
Especially when you're going the other way trying to match their physical play and you get called every time a GS player goes to the hoop. It was beyond obvious that GS was allowed to hang around in the first quarter. Yes the C's had turnovers, but there was at least a ten point swing in fouls called and not called during that first quarter. C's had a lot of wasted possessions.. but GS should have too if the game were called equally.

Thing that bothers me the most is that GS doesn't really need help... they're really good. Let's just play the game even and see who wins?