God I hope not. He can’t handle regular season minutes. Theis would be the option if you’re crossing your fingers and trying to buy some rest. More likely is the Jays go all 48.
Celtics vs. Warriors, NBA Finals
- Thread starter Devizier
- Start date
Agreed. Have to go with who got you there and let the chips fall where they may.
That's what I mean. I don't see him in a 10-minute role off the bench. But maybe he plays the last minute of the first and third quarters? Look at what he did when Ime threw him in against Miami... multiple blocks in transition.
I think if the Jays go all forty-eight the Celtics will lose by double figures.
There's some reporting that Ime is making some rotation changes to counter Warriors small lineups. Aside from the Nesmith possibility - which I agree is slim - I have a couple of additional thoughts.
I think Ime needs to bet on Rob. In games 2 through 5, the Celtics have been much better with Rob on than with Rob off. So I think Ime needs to approach this assuming that he will get 30 minutes from Rob, that the Celtics will "win" Rob's minutes, and that Ime needs to figure out how to win the minutes when Rob is on the bench.
I also think that part of the reason why the Celtics have been so much better in the Rob minutes is that Al Horford is just done. He's 35, this series isn;t a great matchup for him, and he's worn out from a long season and playoffs. I think his role needs to be reduced.
So, the Celtics need to plan with 4 types of lineups:
1. Rob and Al together as double bigs. If this works, play them together as much as possible.
2. Rob as the lone big.
3. Al as the lone big. But this lineup cannot see the floor against the Warrios small lineups.
4. Grant as the lone big. While Rob is out, if the Warriors go small, the Celtics need to match that with Grant at the 5, because the small Warriors eviscerate Al.
I think Ime needs to bet on Rob. In games 2 through 5, the Celtics have been much better with Rob on than with Rob off. So I think Ime needs to approach this assuming that he will get 30 minutes from Rob, that the Celtics will "win" Rob's minutes, and that Ime needs to figure out how to win the minutes when Rob is on the bench.
I also think that part of the reason why the Celtics have been so much better in the Rob minutes is that Al Horford is just done. He's 35, this series isn;t a great matchup for him, and he's worn out from a long season and playoffs. I think his role needs to be reduced.
So, the Celtics need to plan with 4 types of lineups:
1. Rob and Al together as double bigs. If this works, play them together as much as possible.
2. Rob as the lone big.
3. Al as the lone big. But this lineup cannot see the floor against the Warrios small lineups.
4. Grant as the lone big. While Rob is out, if the Warriors go small, the Celtics need to match that with Grant at the 5, because the small Warriors eviscerate Al.
Speaking of TL, Chris Haynes with an article on what he's doing to try to play, including draining the knee repeatedly during the Heat series: https://sports.yahoo.com/sources-the-lengths-robert-williams-iii-has-gone-to-play-in-2022-nba-playoffs-including-having-knee-drained-215219133.html
I sure hope this is correct:
I sure hope this is correct:
"The medical staff has ensured him that he is not at further risk of worsening the repaired knee. It’s all a matter of pain tolerance."
I just read the article and, man, none of that sounds good.
I’m really hoping that this isn’t something that costs him a decent amount of time next year. If it is, then the Celtics will really need another capable big man…and I am including Theis as a “capable big man” in this calculus. Horford’s minutes will need to be carefully monitored all year, TL’s injuries…
Right on cue with line-up discussions: Ime to the press after practice on Wednesday: “We’ve talked about it and looked at some of the counters they’re trying to make with the guys we bring in. I think small ball has worked for us. We’d obviously like to get a little more out of Payton (Pritchard) and Derrick (White) than we did in the last game. Grant (Williams) has been a big part of what we’ve done this year. ” So maybe Ime mean's less of AL and more small ball with White, PP, and Grant.
I read this to be less or zero 2BIGZ and maybe a starting lineup change to allow for more fluid rotations between TL/Horford.
https://theathletic.com/news/-udoka-celtics-adjustments-game-6-finals/vsMx9ax1GC5k/
Some stuff from Udoka about lineups:
"Boston Celtics coach Ime Udoka said he was weighing changes to his substitution patterns, but likely not his starting lineup, with his team facing elimination in the NBA Finals."
"“I think small ball has worked for us,” Udoka said, referring to playing with either Horford or Williams on the court but not both. “We’d obviously like to get a little more out of Payton and Derrick than we did in the last game. Grant has been a big part of what we’ve done this year. We know what they’re trying to do as far as when they substitute. We can combat that with some lineup changes we’re looking at.”"
So hopefully less Williams and Al together, but still seems determined to start both.
Some stuff from Udoka about lineups:
"Boston Celtics coach Ime Udoka said he was weighing changes to his substitution patterns, but likely not his starting lineup, with his team facing elimination in the NBA Finals."
"“I think small ball has worked for us,” Udoka said, referring to playing with either Horford or Williams on the court but not both. “We’d obviously like to get a little more out of Payton and Derrick than we did in the last game. Grant has been a big part of what we’ve done this year. We know what they’re trying to do as far as when they substitute. We can combat that with some lineup changes we’re looking at.”"
So hopefully less Williams and Al together, but still seems determined to start both.
Ime has bingo. The Cs have won when Curry scored 34 and 31 and lost when he scored 16, 29 and 43. Its more than the Js vs Steph/Klay "starball" at this point, and crazy as it sounds, if PP/White/Grant can't hit water falling out of a boat again then its ovah.
Yeah I have been pushing the White-for-Horford switch and go with the 4 out 1 in lineup surrounding Rob.
Meh. If we're talking 8th men, I'd rather take a chance that Pritchard went microwave hot from 3 for a few minutes. But at this point, I'm fine with them playing just 7.
Yeah, Horford was getting cooked out there. Two bigs just allows way too much side-to-side screening action to get Curry open, and Horford AND a hobbled TL couldn't keep up. I'd like to see more Pritchard and White getting into Klay and Steph's shirts and way less of Horford stumbling into Curry.
It'll be interesting to see if we see the Draymond who couldn't keep up with Jaylen Brown from early in the series or the energized Draymond.
It'll be interesting to see if we see the Draymond who couldn't keep up with Jaylen Brown from early in the series or the energized Draymond.
Nesmith is beyond worthless at the moment. Multiple blocks in transition is nice, 3 fouls in 11 minutes is not (including a shooting foul at the buzzer). The defensive energy is a mixed bag, and his offense is completely useless (1-11 from 3 in the playoffs). If he's playing when it matters, the game is already over.
Fixed it for ya.
I expect to see early Pritchard again to see if he can get into a quick rhythm. If not, quick hook and shortened 2H rotation. This is an elimination game so plan to see heavy minutes from those who Ime wants on the floor barring foul trouble. I still feel these minutes can be fluid depending on which Horford & which White shows up and how TL’s knee is effecting him. Many of these will be in-game decisions rather than predetermined which is a little unusual at this stage.
Unfortunately, Ime's stubbornness with the 2BIGZ starting lineup is setting them back almost every game, isn't it?
Well, Isaiah has his opinion on that
View: https://twitter.com/isaiahthomas/status/1537425973787824128?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1537425973787824128%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.silverscreenandroll.com%2F2022%2F6%2F16%2F23169954%2Fboston-celtics-nba-championship-la-lakers-jayson-tatum-lebron-james-instagram-jeanie-buss
This made me LOL too.
For what it's worth, IT's hip was almost certainly well on its way to being toast before any "injury" with the Celtics. I feel bad for the guy but he was playing on impingement, a labral tear, and progressively worsening cartilage loss for many many years.
As far as Rob goes, I hope he's not making anything worse by playing. Obviously the team docs would know better than I would, though persistent pain and effusions more than 2 months post op isn't a good sign. I'd certainly be concerned there is still some meniscus or cartilage issue going on, and it's not always a good idea to play on those without letting them settle down/investigating further.
As someone who struggled with knee pain for a few years, what's going on with Rob makes me really, really uneasy. I kind of wish they had just put him on ice for the playoffs and tried to get him strong and pain free for next season. Sure, they probably wouldn't have gotten this far, but it feels like they're running a real risk of killing his career, no matter what they say. I love watching him play, so I'm hoping I'm wrong here.
I have no idea how your/their world operates, but i have to imagine his agent pushed him into a second opinion conducted by their own guy?
Ok we’ve seen enough of Peyton Pritchard in this series. He’s not catching the Warriors by surprise anymore and easily defendable.
TL would have the final call if that’s what he wants. He seems like he’s invested in this team and I could see him telling his agent that he’s playing, period.
Can they play well? Yes. See the first 3 minutes of this game.
Do they play well? Mostly no. See the rest of it.
35-8, 21-0 runs against.
Do they play well? Mostly no. See the rest of it.
35-8, 21-0 runs against.
Golden State's bench is far superior to Boston's and it's not particularly close either.
Ime managing this game like it’s a February west coast swing that goes through Sacramento tomorrow night……..
WTF is Tatum on the bench when we are on the verge of being blown out of the building????
He did the same thing earlier in series with Jaylen and Smart on the bench in the 2H as we were outscored by 20 in those 4 minutes. Freakin insanity!!!
WTF is Tatum on the bench when we are on the verge of being blown out of the building????
He did the same thing earlier in series with Jaylen and Smart on the bench in the 2H as we were outscored by 20 in those 4 minutes. Freakin insanity!!!
The starters turned it over 10 times inn the half. It's easy to blame them bench because they have been legitimately awful, but the problem is a team problem.
Brad really needs to consider upgrading roster spots 3 onward. There are far better PG's in the league than Smart; Horford cannot keep up with a team with the speed of the Warriors; and RWilliams is an injury risk. Not saying all 3 will be replaced, but given the shit ton of expected player movement this offseason, there will be ample opportunity to find upgrades.
Unfortunately Boston was one legit rotation player short this year and five months of playing playoff rotations is finally catching up to them. Luckily they’ll have ring chasers signing on here in the summer so it won’t be a problem going forward.
I don’t know what the Celtics cap situation is but would someone like Collin Sexton playing the point be an improvement?
What Boston desperately needed was a wing to absorb high leverage defensive minutes (if only they’d drafted Bey) more than anything else. Tatum’s problem isn’t that he’s bad with the offense running through him, he’s been a monster. The problem is that he’s been asked to do that while handling the toughest defensive assignment night in and night out. Job #1 through #10 is to find a 3&D wing that can absorb those minutes, because Grant Williams ain’t it.
Golden State broke the Celtics in game 4. They need to be a "Do Your Job" team to win, but they don't play that way under pressure.
The Warriors AREN'T a more talented team, they are a team whose players trust themselves to execute when games are on the line. The Celtics aren't. They did it for almost 6 motnhs, did some of it in this series, but there was still too much of the team that went 36-36 under Brad and then 18-21 under Ime left in them.
The Warriors AREN'T a more talented team, they are a team whose players trust themselves to execute when games are on the line. The Celtics aren't. They did it for almost 6 motnhs, did some of it in this series, but there was still too much of the team that went 36-36 under Brad and then 18-21 under Ime left in them.
They already had that guy, and paid a first round pick to swap him for Horford (Sexton is seriously hideous on D). Sexton can probably fill a Jordan Poole type role. But you don’t want him in the starting lineup. White and Smart are fine given that the offense is running through Tatum anyway. If the Pistons end up drafting Keegan Murray Boston might want to call and see what it would take to pry Bey away from them (maybe offering to eat Olynyk’s money makes it palatable?).
The gap between the Warriors 3-8 players and the Celtics is much larger than you think.
It really isn’t. Wiggins and TimeLord, Dray and Smart, Looney and Al, Poole and White, Porter and Grant, Payton and PP. that is not a large difference although our bench has been bad the last 3 games.
Pritchard has been beyond horrible on both ends of the floor. He might be as good as someone from the end of the Golden State bench, the problem is that the Warriors have the depth to not play guys like that. And Boston needs something from someone other than White.
The Warriors have undressed the Celtics the past three games and have had the two best players on the floor between Curry and Wiggins. The talent gap seems pretty large once you get past Tatum and Jaylen on the Celtics.
View: https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1537635764233699333?s=20&t=woA91xU31QbqhHIb4W5kZQ
Keith Smith: The Celtics passing up perfectly good threes to over-drive the ball into turnovers is completely opposite of how they have played all year and it's maddening.
What this 4th quarter has shown is that they are playing hard, but it is all pure freelancing. If Brown is driving into 3 guys, that means someone good is open, but there's no effort to make a play off of it. When Smart posts up and no one relocates to give him a passing option, you get a turnover. But it doesn;t have to be - if the Celtics has an offensive plan, they can be good. They were good for the better part of 5 months. Under pressure, it all falls apart.
GS is good defensively, but you can't attribute four Celtics standing still watching Marcus Smart post up to the defense, that is on the offense.
Keith Smith: The Celtics passing up perfectly good threes to over-drive the ball into turnovers is completely opposite of how they have played all year and it's maddening.
What this 4th quarter has shown is that they are playing hard, but it is all pure freelancing. If Brown is driving into 3 guys, that means someone good is open, but there's no effort to make a play off of it. When Smart posts up and no one relocates to give him a passing option, you get a turnover. But it doesn;t have to be - if the Celtics has an offensive plan, they can be good. They were good for the better part of 5 months. Under pressure, it all falls apart.
GS is good defensively, but you can't attribute four Celtics standing still watching Marcus Smart post up to the defense, that is on the offense.
22 turnovers in a game they lost by 13.
Defense held up for the whole series.
Lack of offense killed them.
Defense held up for the whole series.
Lack of offense killed them.
The Celtics were doing all those things you are asking for in the 1H. The Warriors were quicker and better at anticipating everything a step ahead of when we were doing it…….and creating turnovers bc we are forced to use Tatum and Jaylen as our PG running the offense. Ball movement wasn’t only not working with this personnel but it led to a 21-0 1H run when we turned the ball over.
