Celtics vs. Warriors, NBA Finals

[lexrageorge]

The Warriors have undressed the Celtics the past three games and have had the two best players on the floor between Curry and Wiggins. The talent gap seems pretty large once you get past Tatum and Jaylen on the Celtics.

As they say, you are what your record says you are. And the record indicates that the Warriors basically dominated the Celtics for most of this series, and talent matters above all else in the NBA. There is a substantial talent gap, and Tatum got badly schooled by Wiggins.

As I've said before, though, this Warriors team would have easily swept any other ECF team other than perhaps a healthy Bucks team.

I'm still optimistic about this team's future, but the roster does need upgrading. Grant Williams and Pritchard were both badly outplayed by their counterparts on the Warriors even when Steph was on the bench.

 

[JCizzle]

They need more scoring. Four games sub-100 in today's NBA is pretty bad.

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

I thought they played super hard and I'm sure they will say to a man that they left it all on the floor. Biggest difference between the two teams is that when GSW needed a bucket, they could have Curry go to a mismatch and get a good shot. Cs didn't have that in this series.

They had their chances to win the last 3 games but they turned the ball over too much. GSW was really packing their defense in and for whatever reason, Cs stopped making the early pass before they got swallowed up in the lane.

Their fantastic defense masked some issues on offense until this last series.

Future is still bright.

 

[chilidawg]

HRB has been harping on it all year, but these finals have finally convinced me that a playmaking guard is really needed. Schroder wasn't it, but none of Smart, White or Pritchard are either.

Still bullish on this team going forward, but that was a disappointing way to go down.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

Yeah, the last three games were for me more about Wiggins, Poole, etc being impactful and the Celtics getting nothing from their equivalents than it was about Tatum. Who of course struggled and seems to be hurt, but also faced doubles constantly because GS didn’t respect the rest of the rotation and were proven correct not to.

Celtics were really tired, and are a lot younger, but they weren’t close to matching up 1-8 with GS in this series

 

[lexrageorge]

They need more scoring. Four games sub-100 in today's NBA is pretty bad.

Playmaking guard and some playable shooters on the bench would be nice. There could be other recipes that work as well. Grant and Pritchard need to be jettisoned or demoted to the deeper bench.

 

[Lazy vs Crazy]

HRB has been harping on it all year, but these finals have finally convinced me that a playmaking guard is really needed. Schroder wasn't it, but none of Smart, White or Pritchard are either.

Still bullish on this team going forward, but that was a disappointing way to go down.

Ricky Rubio, come on down! Hopefully he signs for the minimum coming off of his injury.

 

[DeadlySplitter]

OK Brad, your turn - need a true good point guard distributor instead of Smart.

 

[blueline]

This season was a real success when you consider how things looked after getting embarrassed by Brooklyn last May, or even back in January. But I also think it's true that the performance by the Celtics over the last 3 games was really unacceptable. The turnovers were awful, the bench was awful, and Tatum had a miserable Finals. Hate to be this negative, but I think games 4 through 6 raised a lot of questions about the team.

 

[BaseballJones]

View: https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1537635764233699333?s=20&t=woA91xU31QbqhHIb4W5kZQ

Keith Smith: The Celtics passing up perfectly good threes to over-drive the ball into turnovers is completely opposite of how they have played all year and it's maddening.

What this 4th quarter has shown is that they are playing hard, but it is all pure freelancing. If Brown is driving into 3 guys, that means someone good is open, but there's no effort to make a play off of it. When Smart posts up and no one relocates to give him a passing option, you get a turnover. But it doesn;t have to be - if the Celtics has an offensive plan, they can be good. They were good for the better part of 5 months. Under pressure, it all falls apart.

GS is good defensively, but you can't attribute four Celtics standing still watching Marcus Smart post up to the defense, that is on the offense.

One of the comments people made about Boston earlier in the series was them settling for too many threes and not taking it into the paint. So they can't win. Unless whatever strategy they employ *works*, whichever it is.

 

[The_Powa_of_Seiji_Ozawa]

Hopefully some ring chasers will see Boston as a desirable destination for a change.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Yeah, with White here, I think the move now is to move Smart and find a point guard for this roster. The Jaylen/Tatum/Smart turnover machine needs to be shut down, they need someone reliable to create some offense and not turn the ball over.

Also saves energy for Tatum/Brown.

 

[NomarsFool]

It's amazing how much they struggled to score the second half of this series. Quite a bit of that is on Tatum, no question, but even if Tatum and Brown score 40+ a game, the rest of the team needs to get 50+ points a game, and that just hasn't been happening.

Game 6: Tatum + Brown (47), rest of team (43)
Game 5: Tatum + Brown (45), rest of team (49)
Game 4: Tatum + Brown (44), rest of team (53)

 

[HomeRunBaker]

They need more scoring. Four games sub-100 in today's NBA is pretty bad.

They need a point guard so Tatum and Brown aren’t running the offense acting in that role. We got away with it all year but against gameplanned playoff defenses it was out undoing.

 

[NomarsFool]

Hopefully some ring chasers will see Boston as a desirable destination for a change.

Do you see much value in ring chasers? Would a marginal upgrade over Pritchard have been helpful in his 10 minutes a game? Yes. Would it have made the difference? I don't think so. We need an upgrade over Smart or White or Horford or someone who was playing 20-30 minutes a night. I don't think we get that from a ring chaser.

 

[ElcaballitoMVP]

Would love to see the C's deepen the bench. After White and Grant, there's really nothing there.

 

[Ale Xander]

IMe has the same issues as Smart, Tatum and PP

wildly inconsistent

 

[lexrageorge]

Do you see much value in ring chasers? Would a marginal upgrade over Pritchard have been helpful in his 10 minutes a game? Yes. Would it have made the difference? I don't think so. We need an upgrade over Smart or White or Horford or someone who was playing 20-30 minutes a night. I don't think we get that from a ring chaser.

I'd say we need both. A marginal upgrade over Pritchard is a very low bar for a ring chaser, so chances are high it would be a much more substantial upgrade.

I said it in the game thread, and I'll repeat it here: we likely have seen peak Smart. And his trade value will likely never be higher than it is today. Trading him opens up a lot of possibilities. In any event, I do hope Stevens goes all in in building around Tatum/Brown; they need and deserve a much better supporting cast.

 

[nighthob]

Do you see much value in ring chasers? Would a marginal upgrade over Pritchard have been helpful in his 10 minutes a game? Yes. Would it have made the difference? I don't think so. We need an upgrade over Smart or White or Horford or someone who was playing 20-30 minutes a night. I don't think we get that from a ring chaser.

Pritchard's role is so small because he's not very good and 100% useless on the road. When you sign ring chasers you're by default hoping that the guys you're signing are actual rotational players rather than situational ones. So, yes, a 3&D wing that can eat the high leverage defensive minutes is the biggest upgrade that Boston can make.

 

[BigMike]

need to find a way to get Tyus Jones here.

 

[InstaFace]

Welp, at least we got to witness the Eastern Conference Revenge Tour. Ending the seasons of the Nets, Bucks, and those smarmy f'ing Heat players was more entertainment than I really deserved. Right now I'm just grateful for the run they gave us.

We can largely run it back next year roster-wise, with the time to let everyone get fully healthy. I'm sure there's some bench tinkering to do, I'll let the bigger basketball brains think about that, but our starting core is also (Horford excepted) still so young that we can also expect some improvement out of them, too. So I'm looking forward to watching an even higher fraction of Cs games next year.

 

[Auger34]

What Boston desperately needed was a wing to absorb high leverage defensive minutes (if only they’d drafted Bey) more than anything else. Tatum’s problem isn’t that he’s bad with the offense running through him, he’s been a monster. The problem is that he’s been asked to do that while handling the toughest defensive assignment night in and night out. Job #1 through #10 is to find a 3&D wing that can absorb those minutes, because Grant Williams ain’t it.

Hasn’t Smart consistently drawn the toughest defensive assignment this series? Or White?

I guess you could argue that because of all of the switching that anyone can have the toughest defensive assignment one night. Or the argument that Tatum has to expend a ton of energy on defense and the underperforming bench exacerbated that….but I really don’t see how you could argue that Tatum has more defensive responsibilities or a tougher assignment than the other Celtics players night in and night out.

 

[Just a bit outside]

need to find a way to get Tyus Jones here.

So you watched thus season and your takeaway is to go get a Smurf point guard? Hard no.

 

[Auger34]

need to find a way to get Tyus Jones here.

This is an absolutely great call. I think HRB was on this too but if we can somehow convince him to come here to play ~25 mins a game then that would be a coup

 

[radsoxfan]

Smart is a very good overall player on a fair contract.

I get all of his flaws, but not sure how likely it is Brad can move him while making the team better.

I actually don’t think he will make big changes in the offseason. This was the best team in the NBA from January until the finals but ran out of gas. Heal up Rob/Tatum and tinker on the edges.

 

[JM3]

Meh. They just need to play smarter & another year of working together should help them get there, in conjunction with a hopefully expanded bench.

I'll just assume Tatum's shoulder is the problem. If he was playing like an elite player, this is a whole different series.

I would rather lean into the switchable 5 & egalitarian offense, just with better decision-making as everyone matures rather than try to rely on an offensive conductor which would be who & acquired how?

I know I was floating Smart for Brunson at the deadline, but I think that's wrong.

 

[Auger34]

So you watched thus season and your takeaway is to go get a Smurf point guard? Hard no.

The team that just won the Finals had Jordan Poole playing pretty significant minutes

 

[BigSoxFan]

We made history!

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/statmuse/status/1537635529386127361?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

 

[SemperFidelisSox]

We made history!

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/statmuse/status/1537635529386127361?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

Whether it’s fair or not, narratives get attached to players that follow them until they prove otherwise. Tatum can be an All Star, All NBA first team, MVP candidate next season, but he has this Finals performance hanging over him now.

 

[luckiestman]

I just want to say this and then I will go watch some new Jets series on YouTube

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCK

GOD DAMN IT, THIS WAS OUR YEAR

We had the narrative

Son of a goddamned motherfucking *beep*

What a magical 2022. Hopefully a lot of steroids and stem cells and we get back here next year. Pre Twolves game injury Rob Williams Cs was a dominant team. As dominant a Celtics team since the 80s . That was a Sunday afternoon game right? I told you all years ago I hated those fucking stupid games. I told you this! You see what happens?

Fuck man, fuck. I really thought we could win this thing. This squad was one of my favorite teams in any sport ever.

 

[luckiestman]

We made history!

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/statmuse/status/1537635529386127361?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

let me meet this stat muse and he will by tweeting out this bullshit with the tip of his nose

 

[nighthob]

Hasn’t Smart consistently drawn the toughest defensive assignment this series? Or White?

Right, Curry. But Golden State's the exception here. Most teams best offensive player plays on the wing. Which left Tatum with the responsibility as Boston went with the two big lineup. And Boston's been playing playoff rotations since January. Added to that he had to carry the offensive load. After five months he just ran out of gas. Give this team Mikal Bridges or Cam Johnson to take that responsibility off of Jayson and things might have ended differently. (I always wished that Ainge had made a deal with Philly to take the Laker pick despite it falling to #10 because I really liked the '18 draft a lot more than '19.)

 

[Auger34]

Right, Curry. But Golden State's the exception here. Most teams best offensive player plays on the wing. Which left Tatum with the responsibility as Boston went with the two big lineup. And Boston's been playing playoff rotations since January. Added to that he had to carry the offensive load. After five months he just ran out of gas. Give this team Mikal Bridges or Cam Johnson to take that responsibility off of Jayson and things might have ended differently. (I always wished that Ainge had made a deal with Philly to take the Laker pick despite it falling to #10 because I really liked the '18 draft a lot more than '19.)

I agree that that’s a big need. And agreed on the playoff rotations since January and that Tatum drew tough assignments in the regular series…

but after Brooklyn where he was tasked with KD, he didn’t guard Giannis and I don’t believe he was the primary defender on Jimmy Butler ether?

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Whether it’s fair or not, narratives get attached to players that follow them until they prove otherwise. Tatum can be an All Star, All NBA first team, MVP candidate next season, but he has this Finals performance hanging over him now.

It’s how the content machine functions.It’s a puff of smoke, a house of cards, to enhance the dramatic trappings of the sport. Guys don’t just have bad series, they’re chokers.

So what?

 

[greek_gawd_of_walks]

Let's pump on Tatum being "top five" ok? Ok.

 

[lexrageorge]

Whether it’s fair or not, narratives get attached to players that follow them until they prove otherwise. Tatum can be an All Star, All NBA first team, MVP candidate next season, but he has this Finals performance hanging over him now.

Which could suck if he ends up leaving, because Tatum will definitely win a title on his next contract if it's not with Boston. And give this team a genuine 3rd star and that narrative will get launched down the toilet real fast.

The honest narrative is that Tatum was asked to do too much as the playoffs wore on.

 

[Ale Xander]

I just want to say this and then I will go watch some new Jets series on YouTube

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCK

GOD DAMN IT, THIS WAS OUR YEAR

We had the narrative

Son of a goddamned motherfucking *beep*

What a magical 2022. Hopefully a lot of steroids and stem cells and we get back here next year. Pre Twolves game injury Rob Williams Cs was a dominant team. As dominant a Celtics team since the 80s . That was a Sunday afternoon game right? I told you all years ago I hated those fucking stupid games. I told you this! You see what happens?

Fuck man, fuck. I really thought we could win this thing. This squad was one of my favorite teams in any sport ever.

6PM

 

[luckiestman]

Let's pump on Tatum being "top five" ok? Ok.

All the other top 5 players besides Curry were sitting their asses at home.

 

[bankshot1]

I generally am in a wicked foul mood when my team loses in the post-season, but I don't feel that bad tonight.

I think the Celts have years of high quality championship calibre ball in them. They're gonna be fun to watch. But will probably still piss us off.

Time lord is a fucking gem.

I pray for his health.

 

[Euclis20]

Derrick White had a really nice stretch after his kid was born but since his 20 point performance in game 1, he shot 12-44 from the floor, good for 27% (and 1-10 in games 5 and 6). Celtics don't need him to be a microwave like scorer off the bench, but for a 6th/7th man playing close to 30 mpg, that's fucking brutal.

I feel bad for Tatum. He was clearly hurt, but this will dog him until he wins a title. 44-120 (37%) from the field and the record for most turnovers in a single postseason? Rough.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Derrick White had a really nice stretch after his kid was born but since his 20 point performance in game 1, he shot 12-44 from the floor, good for 27% (and 1-10 in games 5 and 6). Celtics don't need him to be a microwave like scorer off the bench, but for a 6th/7th man playing close to 30 mpg, that's fucking brutal.

I feel bad for Tatum. He was clearly hurt, but this will dog him until he wins a title. 44-120 (37%) from the field and the record for most turnovers in a single postseason? Rough.

White was fucking awful last 2 games. 3 points in nearly 40 minutes. 1-10 shooting. We are such a different team when he’s producing. Ugh.

 

[lars10]

Let's pump on Tatum being "top five" ok? Ok.

We need more of these posts.. there just aren't enough.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Derrick White had a really nice stretch after his kid was born but since his 20 point performance in game 1, he shot 12-44 from the floor, good for 27% (and 1-10 in games 5 and 6). Celtics don't need him to be a microwave like scorer off the bench, but for a 6th/7th man playing close to 30 mpg, that's fucking brutal.

I feel bad for Tatum. He was clearly hurt, but this will dog him until he wins a title. 44-120 (37%) from the field and the record for most turnovers in a single postseason? Rough.

I get what you are saying about Tatum but he should feel bad about this series. Fairly or not, he didn't get it done.

The way this ideally works is that he will be labeled with whatever all the chattering masses choose and then he internalizes that and comes prepared to steal souls next year and beyond.

Or maybe he proves his critics right. I am betting on him.

 

[Humphrey]

if PP/White/Grant can't hit water falling out of a boat again then its ovah.

Good call.

 

[lars10]

Draymond Green

I get what you are saying about Tatum but he should feel bad about this series. Fairly or not, he didn't get it done.

The way this ideally works is that he will be labeled with whatever all the chattering masses choose and then he internalizes that and comes prepared to steal souls next year and beyond.

Or maybe he proves his critics right. I am betting on him.

I hope it feeds him and he doesn't dwell on it at all. There were a lot of reasons the Celtics didn't win and he was one of them... just come back better and stronger next year.

 

[nighthob]

I agree that that’s a big need. And agreed on the playoff rotations since January and that Tatum drew tough assignments in the regular series…

but after Brooklyn where he was tasked with KD, he didn’t guard Giannis and I don’t believe he was the primary defender on Jimmy Butler ether?

Everyone guarded Butler. But, Tatum wasn't just their primary wing defender off and on, he was that from the day the season started. He played heavy minutes all year long, and high leverage minutes on both offense and defense. There's only so long you can do that before it wears you out (unless you're prime LeBron). Golden State's counter to Boston's young legs was, literally, to go to a regular season rotation of 8/9 guys and just throw fresh bodies at them.

Boston's been playing a seven man rotation for months. Tatum finished fourth in total minutes for the '22 season, and of the three guys in front of him two were roleplayers and the third doesn't play a lot of defense (DeRozan). And DeRozan played all of twelve more minutes. They need to find a way to reduce Tatum's defensive load so that they can benefit from his offense.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

I hope it feeds him and he doesn't dwell on it at all. There were a lot of reasons the Celtics didn't win and he was one of them... just come back better and stronger next year.

Sorry I was unclear. I want him to dwell on it. All summer.long.

 

[Euclis20]

Draymond Green

I get what you are saying about Tatum but he should feel bad about this series. Fairly or not, he didn't get it done.

The way this ideally works is that he will be labeled with whatever all the chattering masses choose and then he internalizes that and comes prepared to steal souls next year and beyond.

Or maybe he proves his critics right. I am betting on him.

Yup definitely. He's going to hear a LOT of shit this summer. Going forward he can either prove them right, or he can prove them wrong. I'm certainly glass half full on his future prospects.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Jesus guys, this team just got to game 6 of the finals against an experienced team with 3 titles already and one of the best players (not just shooters) in the history of Earth. We're looking to dismantle the team? Seems like a few upgrades here and there a bit more internal growth might be what's needed.

Kudos to Golden State for keeping up the pressure the last 2 games. Maintaining this level wasn't something that I saw coming, especially defensively. Congrats to @Sam Ray Not for the win, being right about Wiggins (holy fuck is he a 2-way menace).

Once Thompson woke up, we were in deep shit.

Good season. Looking forward to the next.

 

[ehaz]

Well this team proved something. Wyc, you better open up the fucking checkbook. The window is here and it's time to go deep into the tax.