Celtics vs. Warriors, NBA Finals

Who you got?

  • Celtics in 4

    Votes: 6 1.5%
  • Celtics in 5

    Votes: 18 4.6%
  • Celtics in 6

    Votes: 146 37.2%
  • Celtics in 7

    Votes: 127 32.4%
  • Warriors in 4

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • Warriors in 5

    Votes: 23 5.9%
  • Warriors in 6

    Votes: 56 14.3%
  • Warriors in 7

    Votes: 15 3.8%

  • Total voters
    392
  • Poll closed .

8slim

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 6, 2001
18,846
Unreal America
If Smart drills one of those three wide open looks that he missed, and the Heat never cut it to a one possession game, I wonder how the narrative changes.
Precisely. It's not like the Cs were the first team in basketball history to cling to a diminishing lead as the clock ran down, and hang on for a win. Hell, I'm a Syracuse alum and I've seen my alma mater win games exactly in that manner about 100 times.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
42,486
Precisely. It's not like the Cs were the first team in basketball history to cling to a diminishing lead as the clock ran down, and hang on for a win. Hell, I'm a Syracuse alum and I've seen my alma mater win games exactly in that manner about 100 times.
We’ve done it a lot though so maybe the astute hoops fans are picking up on it. Closing out games has been a recurring problem for this team in the playoffs for a couple years.
 

CreightonGubanich

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 13, 2006
1,269
north shore, MA
Certainly they've had problems closing games, but not usually in that particular way. Usually, they're turning the ball over and/or settling for bad, contested shots outside the flow of the offense. This time, they actually ran the offense, and got several wide open looks they just didn't make. They're actually now doing the thing we wanted them to learn how to do all year. I think the final score is a bit of a smokescreen.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
19,258
There was nothing lumbering about Sampson. He was probably the most agile of really, really tall guys ever. (Edit: it’s between him and Kareem, but Ralph was a better ball handler and two inches taller.)

What hindered Sampson—other than injuries— was the fact that he never developed any bread-and-butter offensive moves. He was so physically prodigious throughout college that he’d never needed to. That, plus he had this insistence on showing that he could play a guard’s game rather than just playing to his height.
David Robinson would be my pick for "this 7 foot+ guy is really agile". Although KG depending on how tall he really was would be in the conversation.

Sampson reminds me a bit of Yao in that he was a very skilled big but let some people down because they just assumed someone with that kind of height advantage should dominate like Shaq. His career was undone by his injury (which would have been handled differently today) but he still made 4 ASG and an ALL-NBA.

He made maybe the most under-discussed great shot in NBA history; a crazy no-look turn around with one second left to punch out the '86 Lakers and send the Rockets to the finals.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXOts9kaiLQ
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
15,337
Santa Monica
It changes a lot. I don’t think there’s any question that the discourse has massively changed because of that
Yea it did. The one trepidation the pundits have had with Boston this season is clutch/tight games (SSS and all)
Playoff improvement in spite of the game 7 blunders

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/clutch-advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular Season

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/clutch-advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Regular Season&SeasonSegment=Post All-Star

https://www.nba.com/stats/teams/clutch-advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2021-22&SeasonType=Playoffs
 

reggiecleveland

sublime
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Mar 5, 2004
26,794
Saskatoon Canada
Ralph Sampson would be a beast in today’s NBA. Taller version of TimeLord with a nice mid range jumper (which I have no doubt he could’ve extended to 3p line). Sorta like Embid I guess. The knock on him was his lack of great post game despite being 7’4. However that would fit right in to a team like Warriors, Celts etc.
I am not sure if you a younger guy or what but this is exceptionally insulting to Sampson. Time Lord cannot make a single move around the hoop. He is an athlete, and a defender and a dunker. Ralph Sampson was a player, a very skilled. Even at the end of the line 10 knee surgery Ralph would score when thrown the ball 6 feet from the hoop. TL has trouble not getting stripped even if he has to step through and make a slight move. 7'4 Horford is closer comp for Sampson, except Ralph was a much more skilled low post scorer than most forwards today. Ralph was just abused (hurt, hit physically, not outplayed) by stronger guys in a way that would make KD retreat to his safe room and call the cops. The game was too physical at that time and failed to allow one of the great talents ever to shine as bright as possible.

I sense a dismissive attitude about the past in you comment about Bowie. There is no way Red or Jerry West draft Bowie. The arms race I mentioned was for elite big men on teams trying to get out of the east in the 80s. (The LAkers had a bye to the final other than Moses and Ralph two times) Not a "man they were so dumb drafting bigs" idea. Dawkins and Cadwell Jones worked over Cowens and Red got Parish, a HOF C. After losing to the Cs Doc knew Dawkins was not good enough to compete with Parish, McHale, so the SIxers either had to lose or get (not any big,) but Moses Malone. Along the same lines Red (dumb old dinosaur!) traded a solid big for DJ because the sixers were winning the guard arms race with Toney.
 

Sam Ray Not

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
8,337
NYC
I feel like any two bigs from NBA history picked at random would have about as much in common as Timelord and Sampson.
 

Reverend

for king and country
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2007
51,140
That makes sense. The models love the Celtics and a lot of the people picking against them are showing some major recency bias with that disastrous last 3 minutes against the Heat (even Zach Lowe admitted this himself before picking Warriors in 7)
The hyper-focus of the punditry on the C’s
offensive ineptitude during the final minutes of ECF G7 just seems overblown. It would be like picking the Manning-led Colts over the Pats circa 2003 because the NE had just advanced from an ugly rock-fight win over the Titans where they had bled the clock and barely held on to win. It might have been ugly vs Miami but those are the rules of engagement that the Heat impose
(to their credit). You can’t say that the same ugliness is going to carry over into the Finals while the Warriors are simultaneously playing a clean, wide-open style of basketball.
A good friend of mine has been driven to distraction for like 20 years know about how more casual fans complain that the problem with basketball is that “only the last few minutes matter.”

More knowledgable people claim to know that that is not an accurate representation of the game, but a lot of them often sure act like they do.
 

Imbricus

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 26, 2017
3,872
538 had a good article on We Might Be Overrating The Celtics, But You're Probably Underrating Them.

This was an interesting bit on homecourt advantage:

I performed a logit regression on NBA Finals results since 2000 while controlling for the pre-series Elo ratings of each team, and I found that a team with home-court advantage over an evenly matched opponent would be expected to win the series 57 percent of the time — meaning most of the perceived advantage of home court in the historical Finals records was just an artifact of the better team also having the home court more often than not.
Of course, 57% is hardly insignificant, but it's not an overwhelming advantage by any means.
 

Reverend

for king and country
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2007
51,140

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
24,794
Not only is Silver really good at this, but the NBA press, or at least these questioners, ask really good questions.
(Watching his press conf on nbatv)
 

Reverend

for king and country
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2007
51,140
Not only is Silver really good at this, but the NBA press, or at least these questioners, ask really good questions.
(Watching his press conf on nbatv)
Took me a sec to figure out Nate v. Adam here.

And yeah, he’s great.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
25,087
Not gonna lie….a little scared to enter game thread so I’ll post 1H thoughts here.

* Aside from 3-point explosions the Celtics are showing to be the superior team. So much more high quality depth and difference on the defense end where Boston has no weaknesses while Warriors always have 1-2 on the floor.

* This is going to be a much easier series to officiate as these will be quick, fast and finesse games rather than grind it out rock fights of the past. More fun for the viewer for sure.

* This has the potential to be a shorter series than many people were expecting. We usually make defensive adjustments after the first game of a series but tonight we have already done so. Let’s see how this continues following halftime. This 3Q is going to tell us a lot about how this series is going to go. The Warriors own this 3Q but if Boston can take it away and win tonight…..:eek:h boy. I don’t even want to say it.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
19,258
Not gonna lie….a little scared to enter game thread so I’ll post 1H thoughts here.

* Aside from 3-point explosions the Celtics are showing to be the superior team. So much more high quality depth and difference on the defense end where Boston has no weaknesses while Warriors always have 1-2 on the floor.

* This is going to be a much easier series to officiate as these will be quick, fast and finesse games rather than grind it out rock fights of the past. More fun for the viewer for sure.

* This has the potential to be a shorter series than many people were expecting. We usually make defensive adjustments after the first game of a series but tonight we have already done so. Let’s see how this continues following halftime. This 3Q is going to tell us a lot about how this series is going to go. The Warriors own this 3Q but if Boston can take it away and win tonight…..:eek:h boy. I don’t even want to say it.
I feel like there has been a tendency for us fans to see the Celtics make some adjuments, play better, and then jump to the conclusion that the Celtics have "solved" their opponents and that it will be smooth sailing from here on out.

The Warriors are very well coached and a championship team; they'll have plenty of adjustments too.
 

Eddie Jurak

Go Leafs Go
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
37,844
Melrose, MA
I am not sure if you a younger guy or what but this is exceptionally insulting to Sampson. Time Lord cannot make a single move around the hoop. He is an athlete, and a defender and a dunker. Ralph Sampson was a player, a very skilled. Even at the end of the line 10 knee surgery Ralph would score when thrown the ball 6 feet from the hoop. TL has trouble not getting stripped even if he has to step through and make a slight move. 7'4 Horford is closer comp for Sampson, except Ralph was a much more skilled low post scorer than most forwards today. Ralph was just abused (hurt, hit physically, not outplayed) by stronger guys in a way that would make KD retreat to his safe room and call the cops. The game was too physical at that time and failed to allow one of the great talents ever to shine as bright as possible.
The bolded is just so true and so frustrating when he does have the ball needing a move. Although, think about how much better he can make himself just by coming up with one move he can use in games.
I sense a dismissive attitude about the past in you comment about Bowie. There is no way Red or Jerry West draft Bowie. The arms race I mentioned was for elite big men on teams trying to get out of the east in the 80s. (The LAkers had a bye to the final other than Moses and Ralph two times) Not a "man they were so dumb drafting bigs" idea. Dawkins and Cadwell Jones worked over Cowens and Red got Parish, a HOF C. After losing to the Cs Doc knew Dawkins was not good enough to compete with Parish, McHale, so the SIxers either had to lose or get (not any big,) but Moses Malone. Along the same lines Red (dumb old dinosaur!) traded a solid big for DJ because the sixers were winning the guard arms race with Toney.
I cannot think about Bowie without thinking about the tragicomic story of the Portland Trailbalzers and big men.

In 1972, the Blazers draft 6'11" center LaRue Martin with the #1 overall pick. Martin is is nice guy but simply not good at basketball and is out of the league after 4 disappointing years.

In 1974, the Blazers draft allegedly 6'11" center Bill Walton with the #1 overall pick, one of the great talents in NBA history. He would lead the Blazers to a championship, but his feet were a mess from the jump and he went through a 5 year period where he played a total of 47 games. A legit basketall tragedy.

In 1976, the Blazers draft 6'10" center Moses Malone in the ABA dispersal draft... and quickly dish him to the Buffalo Braves for a 1978 first round pdraft pick who would become <checks notes> Larry Bird's future drinking buddy Rick Robey. Fortunately, the Blazers didn't actually draft Robey, they dealt the pick that would become him along with a player for a what would become the first overall pick in the 1978 draft.

In 1978, the Blazers draft 6'10" center Mychal Thompson with the #1 overall pick. It made sense to go for a center, as Walton's foot blew up in 1978 after his championship 1977 season. Thompson was not a bad player - he had a 12 year NBA career and was a key role player on the Laker team that best the Celtics in 1987. But he never made an All Star team. Also, he missed what would have been his second season because he, beloeve it or not, broke his leg.

At this point, the Blazers had the #1 overall pick 3 times in 7 years, and they took an absolute bust, a servicable NBA player, and a great great talent who led them to a championship but who lost most of his career to devastaing foot injuries, so he never became the perrenial All-Star and franchise player. Oh, but they did acquire a center who quickly became that perennial All-Star, but they quickly traded him away for the pick used to draft Rick Robey.

One would think all of that would be enough karmic punishment for the franchise, and they did have a short reprieve. Until 1984. Portland had the second pick in the draft. The great Hakeem Olajuwon, an All Time NBA great went first. Portland would surely have taken him if they had the first pick. Or if the Houston Rockets had had an inkling of what Michael Jordan was to become. But at any rate, left with the choice between a center who was not Olajuwon (Sam Bowie) or Michael Jordan, the opted for Bowie. They would not have done that if they knew what Jordan would become, or, for that matter, if they knew what Bowie would become. But they didn't, and those are the breaks.

The basketball Gods would lay off of the hapless Blazers for over two decades, before returning for one more laugh. Portland once again found itself holding the number one overall pick in 2007, and once again did what Portland does and took the big man instead of the star wing. And that is how they got Greg Oden, who played 105 NBA game in a career ruined by knee injiures, instead of one of the all time greats in Kevin Durant. They actually did it twice!
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
25,087
As a Celtics fan, I fully endorse Steve Kerr’s decision to treat Steph Curry’s minutes as if it’s a mid-January game in Sacramento.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,505
The bolded is just so true and so frustrating when he does have the ball needing a move. Although, think about how much better he can make himself just by coming up with one move he can use in games.
I cannot think about Bowie without thinking about the tragicomic story of the Portland Trailbalzers and big men.

In 1972, the Blazers draft 6'11" center LaRue Martin with the #1 overall pick. Martin is is nice guy but simply not good at basketball and is out of the league after 4 disappointing years.

In 1974, the Blazers draft allegedly 6'11" center Bill Walton with the #1 overall pick, one of the great talents in NBA history. He would lead the Blazers to a championship, but his feet were a mess from the jump and he went through a 5 year period where he played a total of 47 games. A legit basketall tragedy.

In 1976, the Blazers draft 6'10" center Moses Malone in the ABA dispersal draft... and quickly dish him to the Buffalo Braves for a 1978 first round pdraft pick who would become <checks notes> Larry Bird's future drinking buddy Rick Robey. Fortunately, the Blazers didn't actually draft Robey, they dealt the pick that would become him along with a player for a what would become the first overall pick in the 1978 draft.

In 1978, the Blazers draft 6'10" center Mychal Thompson with the #1 overall pick. It made sense to go for a center, as Walton's foot blew up in 1978 after his championship 1977 season. Thompson was not a bad player - he had a 12 year NBA career and was a key role player on the Laker team that best the Celtics in 1987. But he never made an All Star team. Also, he missed what would have been his second season because he, beloeve it or not, broke his leg.

At this point, the Blazers had the #1 overall pick 3 times in 7 years, and they took an absolute bust, a servicable NBA player, and a great great talent who led them to a championship but who lost most of his career to devastaing foot injuries, so he never became the perrenial All-Star and franchise player. Oh, but they did acquire a center who quickly became that perennial All-Star, but they quickly traded him away for the pick used to draft Rick Robey.

One would think all of that would be enough karmic punishment for the franchise, and they did have a short reprieve. Until 1984. Portland had the second pick in the draft. The great Hakeem Olajuwon, an All Time NBA great went first. Portland would surely have taken him if they had the first pick. Or if the Houston Rockets had had an inkling of what Michael Jordan was to become. But at any rate, left with the choice between a center who was not Olajuwon (Sam Bowie) or Michael Jordan, the opted for Bowie. They would not have done that if they knew what Jordan would become, or, for that matter, if they knew what Bowie would become. But they didn't, and those are the breaks.

The basketball Gods would lay off of the hapless Blazers for over two decades, before returning for one more laugh. Portland once again found itself holding the number one overall pick in 2007, and once again did what Portland does and took the big man instead of the star wing. And that is how they got Greg Oden, who played 105 NBA game in a career ruined by knee injiures, instead of one of the all time greats in Kevin Durant. They actually did it twice!
You forgot the funniest part of the Blazer Curse. They drafted Sabonis way back in the 80s. He did the smart thing and ran away from Portland as fast as he could. Only to have his knee blow up anyway.
 

Red Averages

owes you $50
SoSH Member
Apr 20, 2003
7,556
My god. That was an onslaught. Credit for Ime for staying with Pritchard, adjusting the D, stapling Theis to the bench again. 2 PG for the win. Credit to PP. totally unfazed by the finals. His D is so much better then advertised - credit to him for prioritizing it.

Also credit to Draymond for being the worst offensive player in the NBA with an ego of a defensive MVP 5 years ago. Thank you Steve Kerr for resting Steph for 4-5 minute stretches.

A must win game for the Warriors and we’re only in game 2*?!

*I immediately bought tickets to game 3 with 1 min left.

Can’t wait to read about the takeaways and adjustments from those smarter than me. Amazing to go into a Game 2 with no pressure. What a game.
 

PedrosRedGlove

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 5, 2005
601
My god. That was an onslaught. Credit for Ime for staying with Pritchard, adjusting the D, stapling Theis to the bench again. 2 PG for the win. Credit to PP. totally unfazed by the finals. His D is so much better then advertised - credit to him for prioritizing it.

Also credit to Draymond for being the worst offensive player in the NBA with an ego of a defensive MVP 5 years ago. Thank you Steve Kerr for resting Steph for 4-5 minute stretches.

A must win game for the Warriors and we’re only in game 2*?!

*I immediately bought tickets to game 3 with 1 min left.

Can’t wait to read about the takeaways and adjustments from those smarter than me. Amazing to go into a Game 2 with no pressure. What a game.
Also grabbing 6 rebounds in 15 minutes, really finding ways to contribute.

Amazing clutch performances from Horford and White. Smothering defense in the 4th, what an opening round. Coming back from a rough 3rd quarter to just turn the tables and obliterate them from the jump in the 4th. Crazy game.
 

coremiller

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
5,540
The big takeaway is that the Warriors clearly focused on stopping Tatum and Brown and daring the other guys to beat them and ... it did not work. Horford/White/Smart/Pritchard shot a combined 17/26 from 3. When the Celtics' supporting cast shoots like that, they won't lose.

I wonder if the Warriors will adjust to not giving the supporting players as many open looks and see what Tatum/Brown can do, or if they'll just bet that those guys won't shoot that well every game.
 

Eddie Jurak

Go Leafs Go
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
37,844
Melrose, MA
What an amazing win, that looked for 3 quarters like it was headed towards becoming another of the Celtics patented "playoff game 1 loss."

The first quarter was the "Oops we forgot that Steph Curry is the game's greatest shooter" quarter. Celtics trailed by only 4 (32-28) despite Steph hitting 6 threes and scoring 21 points total. The Celtics defense was messed up, resulting in Steph being absolutely wide open for a lot of them. There was one Curry transition 3 where Smart, Tatum, and another Celtics all backed off him and he drilled the wide open three as the 3 Celtic s started pointing at each other. Comically bad. And yet, after one they were down by just 4.

The Celtics also showed a lot of playoff nerves and confusion at both ends of the floor. This was maybe to be expected. Tatum is particular was terrible in a variety of different ways. Brown was better - except from three early - but it looked like Golden State eventuall stuck Wiggins on him and he vanished.* (*Vanished for a while but, but returned in the 4th).

The Celtics did tighten up their defense in the second quarter, and when the buzzer sounded, they were up 2, 56-54. Derek White did a nice job in the half, both hitting from distance and playing good defense. Maybe the shift in style was too his liking. Tatum was bad - like almost game 3 kind of bad - and looked like he had lost all confidence in his offense. But unlike his bad game 3s, he did find a way to contribute something, with 7 assists in the first half.

Then came the third quarter, aka, the quarter in which just about every Celtic besides Smart mostly played poorly. There were a few highlights - Rob blocked a Curry three - but mostly it was a trash quarter for there Celtics. Where the Celtics really got crushed in the third was on the glass - Golden State ran the lead up to 14 late in the quarter, largely on the strength of second and third chances. A lot of Celtics looked out of sync. Tatum most especially, but also Horford, and others. Andre Igoudala hit a contested three with 6.3 seconds left to make the lead 14, then White cut it to 12 by driving and drawing a foul by Igoudala and hitting his free throws. It ended up a 38-24 quarter, leaving the Celtics down 12, and setting the stage for an incredible comeback.

The Celtics just freaking owned the 4th quarter. They opened on a Jaylen Brown fueled 9-0 run, with Brown hitting 2 baskets (5 points) and assisting on 2. Then the Warriors got a dunk and Brown answered with a 3. Then Klay hit a three and Brown answered with a layup. Celtics were down 3, and they moved on to hitting a barrage of threes. After a Dray layup to put the lead up to five, Celtics got threes by Pritchard, White, White again, Al, Al again, while Golden state could only manage a Curry basket, and suddenly Celtics were up 109-103. Then AL hit a 2 and Marcus hit a pair of threes and there was no looing back.

Player of the game for me was Al, who scored 26 points to lead the team, on 9-12 shooting, 6-8 from three. This was the first time in his whole career that Al hit 6 threes in a game.

Brown also had a great game with 24 points. He kept them in it early and them fueled the early paert of the 4th quarter surge. 10-23 shooting, only 2-8 from three, but he had 7 rebounds and 5 assists. Fourt turnovers, but at least 2 of them were dead ball. Also 2 steals and a block.

White had 21, on 6 of 11 from the field, 5 of 8 from three. Hit some key threes in the 4th.

Tatum looked lost in most ways but found a way to contribute anyway. He scored 12 points on 3 of 17 shooting, 1 of 5 from 3, and even missed his first 2 free throws. And he looked as bad as that sounds. At various times, Golden State was guarding him with Steph Freaking Curry and Tatum could get nothing. However, Tatum had 13 assists - a career high for him, regular season or playoffs. This wasn't a maestro-like Ranjon Rondo kind of 13 assists game, but he was making the right plays and creating good shots for teammates.

Rob played 24 minutes and had 8 points, 6 rebounds, a steal and 4 blocks. Not bad - one block was a Curry three attempt. Most encouragingly, Rob took the opening jump ball. Against the Heat, at least at the end, even when Rob started Horford took the opening tap. Dove for a losse ball at one point and pushed it ahead to start transition.

The Celtics managed to adjust after Golden State's punch within the game, a huge step forward for this team. Steph of the 21 point first quarter finishe the game with only 34.

If you are Golden State, I think you point to the Celtics shooting 21-41 from three as the reason you still have a chance in this series. They aren't going to do that every time. You can also point to the third quarter.

If you are the Celtics, you aren't worried about not being able to shoot 50% from three for a whole series because you expect Jayson Tatum to do better than 3-17.

I would expect Golden State to have more in the tank than they showed today, but I also think this was probably a game they needed more than we did.
 

NomarsFool

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 21, 2001
6,503
I'm not going to say that Tatum had a terrible game - because he didn't, but it was definitely a well below average shooting game for him, and the Celtics won anyway. Of course, they got amazing games from White and Horford and Smart (huge in the first half for sure). But Steph was Steph, and the Warriors lost. What's the hope for the Warrios in Game 2, hope Curry gets hot from 3? Ummm....we saw that already, wasn't enough.

In terms of coaching - the Pritchard move in the 2nd half I was surprised by, but it at least coincided with the Celtics getting back into it. Of course, inserting the "I've barely played in more than a month Theis" didn't seem to work out so well.
 
Last edited:

Eddie Jurak

Go Leafs Go
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
37,844
Melrose, MA
I'm not going to say that Tatum had a terrible game - because he didn't, but it was definitely a well below average shooting game for him, and the Celtics won anyway. Of course, they got amazing games from White and Horford and Smart (huge in the first half for sure). But Steph was Steph, and the Warriors lost. What's the hope for the Warrios in Game 2, hope Curry gets hot from 3? Ummm....we saw that already, wasn't enough.
What set this apart from his game 3s was his 13 assists. He had a lot of problems tonight, but in the end found a way to do something to help the cause.
 

teddykgb

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
10,169
Chelmsford, MA
I'm not going to say that Tatum had a terrible game - because he didn't, but it was definitely a well below average shooting game for him, and the Celtics won anyway. Of course, they got amazing games from White and Horford and Smart (huge in the first half for sure). But Steph was Steph, and the Warriors lost. What's the hope for the Warrios in Game 2, hope Curry gets hot from 3? Ummm....we saw that already, wasn't enough.

In terms of coaching - the Pritchard move in the 2nd half I was surprised by, but it at least coincided with the Celtics getting back into it. Of course, inserting the "I've barely played in more than a month Theis" didn't seem to work out so well.
Let’s take it easy. The Warriors hope is that Steph shoots well again as he usually does and their role players make more shots than ours. Our 3 point shooting tonight covered a lot of sins we hopefully won’t commit again but we saw games against Miami and Bucks what it looks like when Tatum is off and the role players aren’t making shots
 

slamminsammya

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
6,917
San Francisco
I'm not going to say that Tatum had a terrible game - because he didn't, but it was definitely a well below average shooting game for him, and the Celtics won anyway. Of course, they got amazing games from White and Horford and Smart (huge in the first half for sure). But Steph was Steph, and the Warriors lost. What's the hope for the Warrios in Game 2, hope Curry gets hot from 3? Ummm....we saw that already, wasn't enough.

In terms of coaching - the Pritchard move in the 2nd half I was surprised by, but it at least coincided with the Celtics getting back into it. Of course, inserting the "I've barely played in more than a month Theis" didn't seem to work out so well.
If you are a Warriors fan you are probably thinking White probably reverts to being a bad 3 pt shooter and Horford doesn't go 6 for 8 from downtown. Of course you can play this kind of cherry picking game in all sorts of directions.

I don't think either team shoots as well as they did tonight for the rest of the series. But maybe.
 

Mystic Merlin

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 21, 2007
41,233
Hartford, CT
I would be bummed as a Dubs fan to see Steph go for a 30 plus night on 50 percent shooting and lose by double digits. Steph is great, and they need to win games where he plays great and Tatum offers little as a scorer.
 

Light-Tower-Power

ask me about My Pillow
SoSH Member
Jun 14, 2013
14,094
Nashua, NH
Let’s take it easy. The Warriors hope is that Steph shoots well again as he usually does and their role players make more shots than ours. Our 3 point shooting tonight covered a lot of sins we hopefully won’t commit again but we saw games against Miami and Bucks what it looks like when Tatum is off and the role players aren’t making shots
I agree. The three point shooting covered some sins early, but the fourth quarter defense was no fluke. Ime is going to figure out the rotations and their defense on a full-game basis is going to improve. We can’t get ahead of ourselves, but they were pretty crap defensively through three quarters and Tatum couldn’t throw it into the ocean and we ended up winning going away. That’s scary if I’m a GSW fan.
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
46,351
The entire 4th quarter was good looks for Boston and no looks for GS. The “who” of it all doesn’t really matter. And we do have a number of pretty good shooters. Yes, maybe they won’t shoot as well again but A) it’s a short series and single game performances go a long way and B) Boston’s defense has been a constant so if GS can’t crack it late then they are going to have a rough time.
 

Reverend

for king and country
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2007
51,140
One thing about Tatum’s bad shooting game was how he didn’t start looking to immediately pass but still worked to pick up the double team before moving the ball, even when it looked he had no intention of shooting it at times in the 4th; good strategic patience there.
 

jablo1312

lurker
Sep 20, 2005
652
Gotta think getting a few days off did a lot for Al's legs.

Please stop playing drop vs Steph.

Hope they are able to get to the rim a bit more next game, and hope they get out in transition more. Would love to see more point guard Al.

GP2 coming back is something I'm concerned about, but he's also coming off a broken elbow on his shooting arm.

Will be interested to see how GSW counters the 2 pg lineups.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
21,105
Los Angeles, CA
Gotta think getting a few days off did a lot for Al's legs.

Please stop playing drop vs Steph.

Hope they are able to get to the rim a bit more next game, and hope they get out in transition more. Would love to see more point guard Al.

GP2 coming back is something I'm concerned about, but he's also coming off a broken elbow on his shooting arm.

Will be interested to see how GSW counters the 2 pg lineups.
I'm not too worried about that. They mostly patched that up after the first quarter and were giving him fits well above the 3 point arc. If they drop and leave him wide open for 3s going forward, it will (hopefully) be due to brief mental lapses.
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
33,425
Here
This might have been the best officiated game since the 80s. I don’t understand why it can’t be like this, let them play and call the obvious stuff. The flow was amazing, excluding halftime the game was 2 hours. I know there were tons of 3s, which makes it easier for officials, but we’ve seen plenty of these still turn into slogs. Great pace, action, and drama…from the players. I imagine neutral observers loved it.
 

bigq

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
8,790
GP2 coming back is something I'm concerned about, but he's also coming off a broken elbow on his shooting arm.
I would be surprised if he can contribute much in this series however three days between games works in his favor in the later games.
 

jablo1312

lurker
Sep 20, 2005
652
I would be surprised if he can contribute much in this series however three days between games works in his favor in the later games.
him vs Jaylen's handles is giving me pre-nightmares.

On another note, I think they will need to find a role for GW in this series. I get if youre blitzing the PnR he's not your guy vs horford or RW, but he can help with the spacing on offense and can avoid being targeted on defense if hes not iso'd vs Steph.
 

ehaz

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 30, 2007
3,988
Horford/Smart/White probably won’t shoot this well again.

but Tatum/Brown/Grant definitely won’t go a combined 3 of 14 from three again.
 

jablo1312

lurker
Sep 20, 2005
652
God watching 3q they really just stopped boxing out on D for a solid stretch on...really need to clean that up.

And also just a rough stretch right before the comeback started...Rob was off-kilter on offense, defense was helping off of shooters and not Draymond (specifically a problem when the dubs were in semi-transition) o-rebs weren't great, offense was very one-dimensional. Curry hit Jaylen w/ a stepback that if it dropped was 100% gonna lead to an Ime timeout, got the miss, led to another Tatum brick but he made a great play to Poole in transition.
 

coremiller

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
5,540
A sneaky key in this game was that Jordan Poole was horrendous. 2-7, 1-5 on 3s, only 9 points, 4 turnovers, -19. He's always bad on defense but you hope he can make up for it on offense. He didn't tonight. Tough night for @Sam Ray Not.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
38,680
Some of Poole's as well as the other Warriors struggles are a direct function of the C's defensive pressure. The Grizzlies and Mavs played good defense vs Golden State but they don't have the same quality of personnel as Boston. This is not an easy match up for GS and especially Poole who can eat when he gets the right target. Not sure whom he can depend on beating looking across the C's rotation.
 

lars10

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
9,032
The big takeaway is that the Warriors clearly focused on stopping Tatum and Brown and daring the other guys to beat them and ... it did not work. Horford/White/Smart/Pritchard shot a combined 17/26 from 3. When the Celtics' supporting cast shoots like that, they won't lose.

I wonder if the Warriors will adjust to not giving the supporting players as many open looks and see what Tatum/Brown can do, or if they'll just bet that those guys won't shoot that well every game.
Tatum had a ton of open looks.. he just missed them. Brown too really. Didn’t feel like GS was doing anything all that impressive to stop either of them.
 

riboflav

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2006
8,592
NOVA
This might have been the best officiated game since the 80s. I don’t understand why it can’t be like this, let them play and call the obvious stuff. The flow was amazing, excluding halftime the game was 2 hours. I know there were tons of 3s, which makes it easier for officials, but we’ve seen plenty of these still turn into slogs. Great pace, action, and drama…from the players. I imagine neutral observers loved it.
These two teams though play a totally different style of offense than what you saw from the Celtics' previous three opponents. They're both finesse teams offensively and work to avoid contact. I'm not saying the refs will have a banner night every night of this year's Finals but there is a reason why you see more flow and fewer fouls called beyond just referee incompetence.
 

riboflav

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2006
8,592
NOVA
Four of Steph's made threes in the first quarter were WIDE open looks, three off dropped coverage and one in transition where the Celtics communicated poorly. The Celtics adjusted after the first. Even my 10-year old son yelled why do they keep leaving the GOAT shooter open?
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
21,105
Los Angeles, CA
These two teams though play a totally different style of offense than what you saw from the Celtics' previous three opponents. They're both finesse teams offensively and work to avoid contact. I'm not saying the refs will have a banner night every night of this year's Finals but there is a reason why you see more flow and fewer fouls called beyond just referee incompetence.
Yes. Also, there's less flopping between these teams and more of your run-of-the-mill accentuating real contact, which helps immensely. Even still, let's hope we don't have a crew try to take over the game. Fingers crossed.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
21,105
Los Angeles, CA
Horford/Smart/White probably won’t shoot this well again.

but Tatum/Brown/Grant definitely won’t go a combined 3 of 14 from three again.
Yup. And I'm sure we could add a few other stats which fall on either side of the ledger. That's why this substitution math doesn't work. People tend to pick out the improbable things which worked against them and ignore the improbable things which worked in their favor.
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
33,425
Here
Another takeaway: It does not appear to me that Williams re-injured anything in the playoffs where the meniscus is concerned. This looks more like rehab at this point, where the extra rest in this series might allow him to move around well most of the time. Very positive development, if so.