Chris Sale aiming to return

chrisfont9

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“Your dogma is less useful than shit.” We see that dog shit can fertilize the fields and man’s can feed the dog. And dogmas? They can’t fertilize the fields, nor can they feed a dog. Of what use are they?

Mao Tse-tung, Feb., 1, 1942 in Stuart Schram, The Political Thought of Mao Tse-tung.
"Wait! I think I found a use for dogma!"

Mao Tse-tung, about 25 years later.
 

Doc Zero

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Every time I see this thread title my brain immediately adds “dental plan!” to the end of it.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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I guess I'm in the minority. I know the dude is public enemy number one due to the Covid shit, but I'm glad a serious health scare came back negative for him. Fingers crossed he comes back soon and stays healthy for the remainder of his contract (bahahahahahaha...I know...)
 

Rovin Romine

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I guess I'm in the minority. I know the dude is public enemy number one due to the Covid shit, but I'm glad a serious health scare came back negative for him. Fingers crossed he comes back soon and stays healthy for the remainder of his contract (bahahahahahaha...I know...)
Sale's a bonehead, but he's our bonehead. Excepting perhaps yourself, we'd all like him to make a rational 21st century peace with medical science that's been around since the late 18th century. But no one is actually hoping the guy is hurt, sick, or ineffective.
 

Daniel_Son

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I guess I'm in the minority. I know the dude is public enemy number one due to the Covid shit, but I'm glad a serious health scare came back negative for him. Fingers crossed he comes back soon and stays healthy for the remainder of his contract (bahahahahahaha...I know...)
Make no mistake, on a professional level I'm glad he's progressing. Hell, I hope he's the most valuable pitcher in the game for the remainder of his contract and plays a key role on several WS Championship teams.

I also think he's a headstrong idiot who's personal decisions will likely hurt the team and who's "accountability" is a whole lot of smoke and mirrors.
 

YTF

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Make no mistake, on a professional level I'm glad he's progressing. Hell, I hope he's the most valuable pitcher in the game for the remainder of his contract and plays a key role on several WS Championship teams.

I also think he's a headstrong idiot who's personal decisions will likely hurt the team and who's "accountability" is a whole lot of smoke and mirrors.
I'm not sure what this means.
 

Max Power

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Sale's a bonehead, but he's our bonehead. Excepting perhaps yourself, we'd all like him to make a rational 21st century peace with medical science that's been around since the late 18th century. But no one is actually hoping the guy is hurt, sick, or ineffective.
No, not hoping, just expecting.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Sale's a bonehead, but he's our bonehead. Excepting perhaps yourself, we'd all like him to make a rational 21st century peace with medical science that's been around since the late 18th century. But no one is actually hoping the guy is hurt, sick, or ineffective.
I'm vaccinated and need to continue to be up to date with my vaccines in order to travel into Canada for work on a regular basis, so...I'd like him to get vaccinated as well?

But, due to his vaccine status and contract, people are treating the guy like he's Curt Schilling Jr. Or maybe I'm misreading the room a little.
 

tims4wins

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Are we talking solely about his vaccination status (which is a big deal) or is there anything else?
I mean he always says the right words after getting lit up by the Yankees for instance but we don’t see any improvements the next time facing them. Things like that.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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I mean he always says the right words after getting lit up by the Yankees for instance but we don’t see any improvements the next time facing them. Things like that.
Yankees : Sale :: Dolphins : Brady

I don't think that having a foil makes a player unaccountable.

Conversely, Sale could take a look at Brady - who seemed to have very little interest in getting vaccinated - and learn a thing or two about putting his team first with regards to vaccines. Brady wasn't going to let a little shot derail his chance for another ring. He left that up to Aaron Donald.
 

YTF

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I mean he always says the right words after getting lit up by the Yankees for instance but we don’t see any improvements the next time facing them. Things like that.
Most notably in 2019 when the Yankees weren't his only issue and was eventually shut down in mid August. I can't hold a guy saying the right things and possibly not being able to deliver due to injury against him.
 
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BornToRun

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I'm vaccinated and need to continue to be up to date with my vaccines in order to travel into Canada for work on a regular basis, so...I'd like him to get vaccinated as well?

But, due to his vaccine status and contract, people are treating the guy like he's Curt Schilling Jr. Or maybe I'm misreading the room a little.
I wouldn’t call him Curt Schilling Jr. but he’s definitely on my shit list.
 

Marciano490

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Yankees : Sale :: Dolphins : Brady

I don't think that having a foil makes a player unaccountable.

Conversely, Sale could take a look at Brady - who seemed to have very little interest in getting vaccinated - and learn a thing or two about putting his team first with regards to vaccines. Brady wasn't going to let a little shot derail his chance for another ring. He left that up to Aaron Donald.
Long set up, but worth it.

The vaccine stuff aside - and I don’t mean to handwaive it - I always feel for the injured athlete in these cases. Your body - your livelihood - is betraying you. You have a career with a very limited life span. You’re in pain doing the thing you’ve been doing your whole life. Your teammates are having ups and downs without you. It sucks.
 

joe dokes

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Sale to begin his rehab in Ft Myers on Monday. If they max out his rehab period (30 days) and he has no set-backs, he'll be back around the All Star break.

View: https://twitter.com/PeteAbe/status/1537959867771539457
It's probably worth remembering that, while he is starting from scratch, he's also not "returning from TJ surgery" this time. He sort of cleared that hurdle last year, in that he was healthy, but with diminished stuff. 2 years from surgery, I am cautiously optimistic for the first time in a while (mid 2018?) that his arm isn't ready to fall off and he might actually be good again.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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It's probably worth remembering that, while he is starting from scratch, he's also not "returning from TJ surgery" this time. He sort of cleared that hurdle last year, in that he was healthy, but with diminished stuff. 2 years from surgery, I am cautiously optimistic for the first time in a while (mid 2018?) that his arm isn't ready to fall off and he might actually be good again.
I'm in the same boat. The way they were talking about him during the game last night, it sounded like they weren't planning to rush him through. They want him to build up to a 70+ pitch count before he is activated. That could take 4 rehab starts, it could take 6. Either way, I expect when he returns, he'll be a net positive for the rotation and an upgrade over Rich Hill.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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If they are confident in Sale’s ability to return and be effective, do they attempt to trade a starter, probably Hill, in the coming weeks / month and a half? Can’t imagine the return would be particularly high but I see no way they can keep Hill in the pen, especially if Taylor comes back. They are going to need to clear some spots on the 40/26 at some point.
 

koufax32

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If they are confident in Sale’s ability to return and be effective, do they attempt to trade a starter, probably Hill, in the coming weeks / month and a half? Can’t imagine the return would be particularly high but I see no way they can keep Hill in the pen, especially if Taylor comes back. They are going to need to clear some spots on the 40/26 at some point.
1.TINSTATMP
2. I’d much prefer Hill as a BP option that some of the combustible guys there already.
 

ookami7m

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If they are confident in Sale’s ability to return and be effective, do they attempt to trade a starter, probably Hill, in the coming weeks / month and a half? Can’t imagine the return would be particularly high but I see no way they can keep Hill in the pen, especially if Taylor comes back. They are going to need to clear some spots on the 40/26 at some point.
Can never have too much pitching. End.

As for clearing space on the 40/26 I'm sure some of the bullpen arms are fungible. And Winckowski/crawford will certainly go back to the minors to open rotation slots.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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Well, to activate Sale, Taylor, and / or Paxton, you have to lose three players of the 40-man. Maybe it never comes to that, things happen, but you can’t keep all these guys so the “you can never have too much pitching” doesn’t really ring true.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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2. I’d much prefer Hill as a BP option that some of the combustible guys there already.
Run with this some. Me too- but who? Brasier, Sawamura and Diekman are pretty bad. Robles hasn’t really been what he showed in September 21. Valdez I thought looked ready to turn into a big asset and that hasn’t panned out.
Yeah, I’d take Hill for 3 innings following Sale anytime over those.
If you could rebuild the pen right now with Sale back- going 70 pitches- who would you go with?
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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I don’t think Diekman is going anywhere. Strahm either. Davis seems at risk once Taylor is ready. I don’t see how you can add a fourth lefty, with a limit of 13 pitchers.

Houck, Robles, Schreiber, Danish from the RH side, leaves one spot amongst Brasier, Sawa, Barnes, etc.

Eovaldi, Sale, Wacha, Pivetta, Whitlock
Diekman, Strahm, Taylor / Davis
Houck, Robles, Schreiber, Danish, Brasier/Sawa/Barnes

If Paxton comes back and no one else is injured, Whitlock to the pen and imagine Danish or Schreiber goes down?

Potentially good problems to have.
 

amfox1

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Sale threw a bullpen this AM and remains on track to start Thursday in Portland. Taylor is pitching an inning tomorrow in Portland. Kiké Hernández has resumed throwing but still not swinging. Whitlock will face hitters on Friday in Chicago and go through fielding drills.

***

FYI. If Sale threw the bullpen in TOR, then he's vaccinated. If he threw it in Ft Myers, then unclear.
 

Ale Xander

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Well he lives in Naples (and went to school on the Estero/FTM border) so if I had to bet, I’d say he threw it in Fort Myers
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Sale threw a bullpen this AM and remains on track to start Thursday in Portland. Taylor is pitching an inning tomorrow in Portland. Kiké Hernández has resumed throwing but still not swinging. Whitlock will face hitters on Friday in Chicago and go through fielding drills.

***

FYI. If Sale threw the bullpen in TOR, then he's vaccinated. If he threw it in Ft Myers, then unclear.
I suspect he did not travel with the team irrespective of his vax status. I think even vaxxed people have to test to cross the border, so why risk an asymptomatic test that could force isolation and delay his rehab? I bet no teams are taking non-essential personnel to Toronto this year for just that reason.
 

amfox1

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Christopher Smith
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Red Sox starter Chris Sale's first AB in Portland rehab start: 95 mph, 94 mph, 95 mph, 96 mph, 80 slider for K.

Christopher Smith
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Chris Sale threw 10 pitches in the first inning. 7 were fastballs: 95, 94, 95, 96, 95, 95, 93 (two-seam)


Christopher Smith
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56s

Chris Sale's second inning: First batter: 76 slider, 78 slider, 94, 79 (swinging K) Second batter: 93, 77 slider, 94, 81 mph slider (single to left) Third batter: 93, 94, 93, 93 (swinging strikeout) Fourth batter: 86 mph changeup, 94, 95, 95 (K looking)
 
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waffles.

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Christopher Smith
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Red Sox starter Chris Sale's first AB in Portland rehab start: 95 mph, 94 mph, 95 mph, 96 mph, 80 slider for K.

Christopher Smith
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16m

Chris Sale threw 10 pitches in the first inning. 7 were fastballs: 95, 94, 95, 96, 95, 95, 93 (two-seam)


Christopher Smith
@SmittyOnMLB

56s

Chris Sale's second inning: First batter: 76 slider, 78 slider, 94, 79 (swinging K) Second batter: 93, 77 slider, 94, 81 mph slider (single to left) Third batter: 93, 94, 93, 93 (swinging strikeout) Fourth batter: 86 mph changeup, 94, 95, 95 (K looking)

Damn. It's hard not to get excited looking at a line like that. When are they aiming to call him up?
 

amfox1

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Christopher Smith
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Chris Sale's third inning: First batter: 91 mph, 92 mph, 91 mph (infield single) Second batter: 93 mph, 94 mph (RBI double off LF wall) Third batter: 87 mph changeup (groundout to third) Fourth batter: 80 mph slider, 80 mph slider, 96 mph (flyout to right field, 9-2 DP)

Christopher Smith
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Chris Sale coming back out for the fourth inning. He's at 35 pitches.
 

amfox1

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3rd inning dip in velocity to 91-92. That's the sort of thing that requires additional innings to build up strength. I'd want him to be at 75-80 pitches before coming up (52 today, 65 on July 5, 80 on July 10 and maybe he starts @ MFY before ASB or vs. CLE post-ASB). Mid-July is fine with me, so long as he is healthy.

EDIT (better velocity in 4th inning, except first pitch, 52 pitches total - 10/16/9/17):

Christopher Smith
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Chris Sale's fourth: First batter: 91, 77 slider, 93, 94, 96 (K swinging) Second batter: 86 changeup. 84 changeup (single to right field 69 mph exit velo) Third batter: 78 slider, 94, 94, 86 changeup (K swinging) Fourth batter: 94, 94, 94, 96, 78 slider, 94 mph K swinging
 
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Red(s)HawksFan

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At the game. Sale looked really good. The run he gave up was on a misplayed wall ball in left.

Can't really add more than the quoted tweets. The most surprising thing for me was they shut off the pitch clocks when he was on the mound. Apparently the experimental rules don't apply to rehabbing big leaguers.
 

effectivelywild

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At the game. Sale looked really good. The run he gave up was on a misplayed wall ball in left.

Can't really add more than the quoted tweets. The most surprising thing for me was they shut off the pitch clocks when he was on the mound. Apparently the experimental rules don't apply to rehabbing big leaguers.
Maybe they were concerned he'd attack the pitch clocks with a knife as he did with throwback jerseys.