Chris Sale aiming to return

nvalvo

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Jul 16, 2005
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I'm with you here. The contract was not a good idea at the time and it hasn't aged well but yeah, IF Sale can come back and pitch the Sox as an ace deep into the playoffs and pitch well into the playoffs then this is all fine. David Price is a fucking hero to me. The dude should have got the WS MVP for the Sox in '18. I can't think of one SoSH poster here who though David Price was a good signing at the dawn of those World Series. And even if you go back and look at his overall track record and compare it to his cost per WAR or whatever it doesn't matter. He was there and killed it when it mattered. People on this board want to say that the Dodgers deal for Mookie was good for the Dodgers just because they won the WS in an Covid shortened season. Granted, I don't think Sale has had that moment yet- his role in the '18 season and WS was relatively limited.
Right now and at the time of the contract offered I also, amongst most here, thought it was a bad idea. But he hasn't been useless and it's not even close to being finished. I'm honestly not optimistic but I can't really judge it until it's done. We know his potential and it's far, far higher than Crawford or Sandovals.
I'm more wondering how or what his role will be when he returns. Could he end up more in a bullpen ace role if the rotation somehow is working successfully?
Well, I don't think many people are upset about Sale in '17 and '18, a two-season stretch where he was worth 7.6 and 6.2 fWAR. He may not have been great in either postseason, but he played a huge role in getting them there. But those seasons were played under the extension he signed with Chicago. We paid him ~$13m/year for like $60m/year worth of WAR — massive surplus value — which made sending Kopech and Moncada and the good Basabe worthwhile. The deal in question is the extension. And even here, a lot depends on how you want to look at it.

If you choose to look at the totality of the Chris Sale Experience in Boston, well, he basically started $115m in the black after three seasons. 7.6 + 6.2 + 3.6 = 17.4 fWAR * $9m = $156.6m of on-field value, for which we paid him something like $40m. So seen in that light, he doesn't need to do much going forward to be worth his total compensation from the Red Sox, even if his $145m extension ends up underwater, as it most likely will.

So, I'd say, if we're evaluating Chris Sale, we should conclude that he will likely earn his check in Boston. He just needs to be a mid-rotation starter for a couple years to do that after his hot start in '17 and '18. If we're evaluating Dave Dombrowski, we should conclude that the trade to acquire Sale was a massive coup that made gigantic contributions to a couple of division-winning clubs including a WS champion, and the decision to extend him was an extremely risky move that has so far worked out terribly.
 

Apisith

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Oct 19, 2007
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If everything’s okay, he would miss only 3/4 starts and could be ready before the end of April? That’s not too bad.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Jan 23, 2009
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Don't get your hopes up. I see mid-May in the tea leaves.
Yeah. When I read "ground zero" as his starting point, I'm picturing he's roughly in January in terms of a normal spring training type schedule. Once he's cleared to throw, it's probably a couple weeks of flat ground throwing before he considers getting on a mound. Follow that with a couple weeks worth of bullpens and maybe some simulated innings. That puts him in May before he's throwing in a live game, and probably 4-5 rehab starts before he's at starter-level pitch counts. Memorial Day seems like an optimistic target.
 

GlucoDoc

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Dec 19, 2005
74
This is Chris Sale. It will take longer than anticipated. But since he cannot last a full season anyway as has been noted herein ad nauseum, the foreshortened season is to be expected, is inevitable, and may not be horrible.
 

TFisNEXT

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Jul 21, 2005
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I'd be happy with Memorial Day. If the MRI is good, let him ramp up slowly.
I would have been happy for him to be back before the ASB. Memorial Day would be great. Hopefully Rich Hill has 75-100 good innings in his arm to bridge the gap.
 

Rovin Romine

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Jul 14, 2005
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This is Chris Sale. It will take longer than anticipated. But since he cannot last a full season anyway as has been noted herein ad nauseum, the foreshortened season is to be expected, is inevitable, and may not be horrible.
Remind me how many months he was outside of the normal TJ recovery window?
 

BaseballJones

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Oct 1, 2015
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If - IF - Sale could be ready for Aug/Sep/Oct, and be at full health and be CHRIS SALE, then that's fine (not worth the contract but that ship has sailed). But at this point I'll be surprised if he is ever back to being CHRIS SALE.
 

lexrageorge

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Jul 31, 2007
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End May or early June does not seem all that surprising, given that he has not yet been cleared to begin his throwing program. Seems like the timeline is to get him a handful of rehab starts in Portland and Worcester in mid-May, which will basically be his spring training after spending April getting himself back into pitching shape. Maybe it's a couple of weeks later than hoped, but they may as well free up the spot on the 40-man at this point. Sale coming back May 15th vs June 1st is not going to make that much difference over the course of the season.
 

jose melendez

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I loved watching peak Chris Sale pitch, maybe more than any Sox starter since Pedro.

This guy? Him I do not like. Self-righteousness balanced with poor perfomance is abad look.
 

radsoxfan

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Aug 9, 2009
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"Chris Sale had another MRI on his fractured rib and that will determine if he can start a throwing program. Once he is cleared, whenever that is, he’ll start from from ground zero in terms of building up. "

View: https://twitter.com/PeteAbe/status/1509879746863243278
Don't really understand the point of another MRI 2-3 weeks after the initial diagnosis.

Unless it was a mild stress response rather than actually a stress fracture, there is no chance it would be healed in that timeframe . I wouldn't really advise ramping up a throwing program based on the MRI results anyway, the bone marrow inflammation can lag quite a bit from clinical picture.

Especially as a non weight bearing bone, I would think they would go basically based on time frame and symptoms more than any imaging. I suppose maybe hoping for a hail mary result and its magically healed to avoid the 60 day DL.
 

luckysox

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Apr 21, 2009
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I'm just rolling through this season as if he's not even on the team at all. If he comes back at any point, it'll be a surprise. Zero, absolutely ZERO expectations at this point, for him to be a + contributor to this team.
 

curly2

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Jul 8, 2003
4,887
Forget about seeing Sale anytime soon -- not that I was expecting to.


Sean McAdam: Chris Sale has been sidelined by a “personal, non-baseball” medical issue and hasn’t thrown for a bit. Red Sox think it will push his return to their rotation from early June to late June.
 

Van Everyman

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Apr 30, 2009
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Is being a selfish asshole now a medical issue?

The vaccine thing kind of changed how I felt about Sale. I get that guys who compete at a certain level are wired differently than, say, you or me. And I recognize fully that my politics plays a role in how I see this issue. But there is something about where he has gone since 2018 that I find toxic as a fan -- and I suspect has created issues in the clubhouse as well, even if they would never say it. Right now, it is hard to root for this guy.
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
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Sep 20, 2005
8,105
Is being a selfish asshole now a medical issue?

The vaccine thing kind of changed how I felt about Sale. I get that guys who compete at a certain level are wired differently than, say, you or me. And I recognize fully that my politics plays a role in how I see this issue. But there is something about where he has gone since 2018 that I find toxic as a fan -- and I suspect has created issues in the clubhouse as well, even if they would never say it. Right now, it is hard to root for this guy.
It's like you'll be disappointed to see this, but...

View: https://twitter.com/Sean_McAdam/status/1522999833551900673?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1522999833551900673%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=
 

Cesar Crespo

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Dec 22, 2002
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Is being a selfish asshole now a medical issue?

The vaccine thing kind of changed how I felt about Sale. I get that guys who compete at a certain level are wired differently than, say, you or me. And I recognize fully that my politics plays a role in how I see this issue. But there is something about where he has gone since 2018 that I find toxic as a fan -- and I suspect has created issues in the clubhouse as well, even if they would never say it. Right now, it is hard to root for this guy.
Throwing a fit over throwback uniforms and cutting them all up isn't a good look either.
 

moondog80

heart is two sizes two small
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Sep 20, 2005
8,105
Throwing a fit over throwback uniforms and cutting them all up isn't a good look either.
The guys has a medical issue. By all means, let's use this as an opportunity to bring up whatever grudges we are carrying.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Dec 22, 2002
21,588
The guys has a medical issue. By all means, let's use this as an opportunity to bring up whatever grudges we are carrying.
I don't have any grudges. Just pointing out he has a past of being unlikeable and it has nothing to do with covid or politics.
 

richgedman'sghost

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May 13, 2006
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Is being a selfish asshole now a medical issue?

The vaccine thing kind of changed how I felt about Sale. I get that guys who compete at a certain level are wired differently than, say, you or me. And I recognize fully that my politics plays a role in how I see this issue. But there is something about where he has gone since 2018 that I find toxic as a fan -- and I suspect has created issues in the clubhouse as well, even if they would never say it. Right now, it is hard to root for this guy.
Does it change your mind that the current medical issue is not covid related according to Chaim. How can Sale affect the clubhouse chemistry if he's never there? Serious question, I thought he was doing his rehab at the Fort and wasn't around the team except for check ups. I'm with you, I don't want him polluting the clubhouse with his toxic views but I didn't think he was around the team day to day. Sale is almost but not quite in Schilling territory to me.