Chris Sale to Boston for Moncada, Kopech, & 2 Prospects

soxhop411

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2009
35,564
Why now and not in July? They could have made a serious run with Ortiz still on board and possibly have won home field and maybe things turn out differently, who knows. Did that small sample of ABs change their perception of Moncada? I don't understand why they didn't make this trade in July but decide to do so now.

This is why

“@Buster_ESPN: White Sox get a big haul from BOS -- and it's a step down for what they asked for in July, which included Betts and Benintendi.”

 

BoSox Rule

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
2,169
Luis Alejandro Basabe was already traded to Arizona last year, this is Luis Alexander.
 

Al Zarilla

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
51,570
San Andreas Fault
Fair enough. Well, we just got a number one starter then and he's followed by David Price and a Cy Young winner. Nice!
Thinking some more, Bum is built like your bigger than average tight end and Sale like Bambi. And, Sale is untested in the postseason. Who knows what he might have left after a 200+ innings season. We'll find out next October, hopefully.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
40,816
Moncada sucked in his cup of coffee?
I don't like the plan of making a team which is a likely contender for years a short dated contender
Do you realize when we control Price, Porcello, Sale, Benintendi, Betts, etc. until?

This isn't short-dated.
 

InstaFace

MDLzera
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
12,974
Pittsburgh, PA
Pete Abraham ‏@PeteAbe 24s25 seconds ago
Told the other pieces in the Sale trade are not 40-man roster players (beyond Moncada)
Well, I don't need to hear any more than that to love the trade. There's nobody not on the 40-man who would make me feel anything less than love. Chris Sale is 27 years old, has finished top-6 in the AL Cy Young the last FIVE YEARS RUNNING, and has incredible control. Not to mention durability (30+ starts 4 of the last 5 years, and 26 in the other one). At that price, $12-13M, it's a fucking steal.

This is highway robbery. Well done DDski.
 

oumbi

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 15, 2006
2,860
As of now, the top prospects (per Soxprospects) left in the Sox system are:
Devers
Groome
Travis
Johnson
Dalbec
Chatham
Ockimey

A lot thinner than it was, but there are still a few good prospects. And for me, the point of the minor league has always been to provide talent for the major league club - either through promoting good talent or allowed trades for it.

I did not include Benentendi or Hernandez since they are already in Boston.
 

rymflaherty

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2010
2,723
Norfolk
I had Rusillo & Kanell on in the background. I heard "Breaking news Chris Sale has been traded" and no lie, I immediately thought "Good, now I can be done with the notion of the Red Sox trading for him"...assuming it was the rumored deal to Washington....Then I heard, "To the Red Sox" and I'm in shock.
Immediate reaction is I don't like it so I'll be lurking on here from here on out to see if the smarter posters will make me feel better. *edit - reading posts and it already looks like my initial reaction was an over-reaction and I'm likely overvaluing Moncada.

One thing I do have to ask - is there precedent for this many LH'ers in a rotation. Any numbers or analysis for that? Because, again, just immediate reaction, it doesn't seem to be optimal.
 

BroodsSexton

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 4, 2006
9,506
guam
This is one of those deals where I just assume the other team knows something we don't. I'm assuming a season-ending elbow strain by June, and back in 2019.
 

Snodgrass'Muff

oppresses WARmongers
SoSH Member
Mar 11, 2008
27,644
Roanoke, VA
Holy crap we got Sale without losing any of the Killer Bs?

This is a massive coup
I don't think I can get behind "massive coup" but it seems like a pretty fair price and one that does sting a bit. I'm going to miss Moncada, but at the end of the day the Red Sox are better in the short term for sure and perhaps in the long term as well.

I'll take it.
 

Average Reds

Dope
Staff member
Dope
V&N Mod
SoSH Member
Sep 24, 2007
28,298
Southwestern CT
ERA+ of 114 and 120 the past two seasons, and a K rate that dipped 2.5 per nine last year. Generally misses a start or three a la Pedro, with just one Pedro-esque season to date...and then the drop-off. White Sox brass concerned about him breaking down. Better unload half the young talent for him.
Why does this feel like someone is pissing in my Cheerios?
 

crow216

Dragon Wangler
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
16,532
Astoria
Wild guess but I think seeing David Price continue to struggle, seeing Panda get into better shape, and seeing that Moncada was a bit further away than they might have hoped with his approach/pitch recognition are near the top of the list.
The argument against is that the Sox were already likely AL East favorites. How much does Sale put you over the top? If the answer is clear, then he's worth it. The Cubs and Indians unloaded top prospects for closers last year and both made it to the world series. I don't think they regret it.
 

pokey_reese

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 25, 2008
13,891
Eugene, OR
I do like the idea of adding a top-tier pitcher at the same salary as we were going to pay Buchholz (assuming he no longer sticks around), and with the bullpen addition this team is pretty close to done, no? Just need to figure out the last piece of the 3B/1B/DH situation now and we are ready for spring. I'm a little sad that I won't get to see Moncada on the Sox, but I'm glad that I won't have to fret every time I watch him flail at a pitch down and away for the next year or two.
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
37,737
Holy crap we got Sale without losing any of the Killer Bs?

This is a massive coup
Swihart too, assuming the team is still willing to give him more than a handful of games at catcher before deciding he stinks.

Devers is nothing to scoff at as your top prospect, either. Before Moncada he was thought of as having "best bat in the minors" type of potential.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
12,327
da fuq?

Great Panda and Holt as our 3B now?

hate this trade. Could have done same thing in July.
They were our 3b to start the year anyway. Them and Travis Shaw. And while it may sound outlandish, Devers is going to start this season in AA and could possibly beat Moncada to the big show. Devers made a huge leap in the 2nd half of the season, and iirc, some of the struggles in the first half were due to him intentionally taking more pitches.

I really like Moncada but he does come with flaws and I would take Benintendi 10 times out of 10 over him. This is what selling high is. Kopech hurts as well, but next year will be his first go around in AA and it's possible he doesn't stick as a starter or even pan out at all. I was extremely scared about a Chris Sale trade, but I can live with this deal. I'm guessing whether people like or hate this deal depends on their opinion of just how great Moncada is going to be.
 

MikeM

Member
SoSH Member
May 27, 2010
2,923
Florida
I almost can't believe Moncada/Kopech got it done here without a third piece that wasn't more interesting.

Obvious bias aside, is this really better then what Wash was rumored to be offering?
 

Buffalo Head

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 13, 2001
6,864
San Diego, CA
You mean I won't get to watch Moncada close his eyes and swing and miss at pitches a foot out of the strikezone anymore? Damn.
 

Snodgrass'Muff

oppresses WARmongers
SoSH Member
Mar 11, 2008
27,644
Roanoke, VA
And for me, the point of the minor league has always been to provide talent for the major league club - either through promoting good talent or allowed trades for it.
In this way, Dombrowski is the better man for the job (making the decisions on Yawkey Way) than Cherington right now. Ben built the foundation of young talent with a massive wave of prospects behind it that weren't all going to fit on the major league roster. Dombrowksi is converting that excess to major league pieces that will help the team win a lot of games right now and in the next few years.

Ben Cherington doesn't make this deal. Or the Kimbrel deal, I don't think. Never mind the Pomeranz deal. Dombrowski is doing exactly what people feared in cashing in all of the prospect chips, but he's bringing back big time players for the most part, with lots of control left.

I can't say I would rate any of these deals as a bad one. And I can't conceive of any circumstances in which Ben Cherington would have made any of them.
 

The Best Catch in 100 Years

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
791
Kyrgyzstan
We gave up exactly what FG projected as a fair return in July for what it's worth:

"[Moncada's] value gets you most of the way to Sale, so the second piece could be a higher risk guy like hard-throwing righty Michael Kopech (#93 BA/#83 MLB), since back-end Top 100 pitching prospects are worth about $15 million. Toss in some sweeteners on top of that, and the White Sox would at least have to think about it, as Moncada and Kopech could give them a pretty great return."
 

Detts

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
4,717
Greenville, SC
Sold high on Moncada and Kopech, gave up 2 lottery tickets (A pitchers with only a fastball and no control do not impress me) for 3 cheap years of an Ace?

I'm all in on this one.

The projection I saw last night was Moncada, Kopech, Swihart and Edro. I literally yelled NO at the top of my lungs scaring everyone else at the bar.

Muuuuuuuuch better.
 

The Gray Eagle

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2001
13,623
True, but he used to be the bad Basabe until he suddenly got better than his brother a year or so ago
No, you're thinking of Luis A. Basabe. The guy we traded is his brother. :)

Now we should follow this trade up with moving Pomeranz for a power bat. He has a lot more trade value than Buchholz and we have 4 lefties in the rotation if he stays.
 

InstaFace

MDLzera
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
12,974
Pittsburgh, PA
Wow. Just. Um. Wow.

Ohmygod

Uh. Yeah. Wow.

This is going to be a fun next 3 years. A very fun next 3 years.
Quoted for posterity. The last time P91 was this excited was when Tim Geithner gave him a handie.

Which, coincidentally, resulted in much the same exact words.
 

pdub

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 2, 2007
453
Dombrowski is really living up to his reputation. And here I thought WSH was about to pull the trigger on a deal for Sale. What a difference a few hours make.
 

chawson

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
1,914
Andy Marte, age 20 (Rk, AA) — .276/.370/.540, 14.9 BB%, 22.9 K%
Yoan Moncada, age 21 (A+, AA) — .294/.407/.511, 17.7 BB%, 30.6 K%
 

SouthernBoSox

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 23, 2005
11,071
I think it's an amazing trade and immediately makes the Red Sox the best team in the AL. I assume Pomeranz is pushed to the pen or traded. Either way he is a valuable piece that you can now move.
 

67WasBest

Concierge
SoSH Member
Mar 17, 2004
2,442
Music City USA
Anyone look at his August and September stats from last year?

4W 8L 10HR 87IP
Two years running his stats are bad in late season. Could be fatigue, could be disinterest after getting knocked out of playoffs. ChiSox reportedly tailored a low impact spring last year in hopes he wouldn't repeat what he did. Didn't work!
 

The Best Catch in 100 Years

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2006
791
Kyrgyzstan
Say this for Dombrowski, he's not afraid to overpay for a player he wants.
I'm finding it a bit difficult to see this as an "overpay"--some of you guys really think it was possible to get Sale or the equivalent (top 5 pitcher in the league, 27 years old, under contract for peanuts over the next three years) for any less than what the package ended up being?
 

PrometheusWakefield

Nasty, brutish, and short
SoSH Member
May 25, 2009
9,270
Boston, MA
As of now, the top prospects (per Soxprospects) left in the Sox system are:
Devers
Groome
Travis
Johnson
Dalbec
Chatham
Ockimey

A lot thinner than it was, but there are still a few good prospects. And for me, the point of the minor league has always been to provide talent for the major league club - either through promoting good talent or allowed trades for it.

I did not include Benentendi or Hernandez since they are already in Boston.
And:

Betts controlled through 2020
Boegards controlled through 2019
Bradley controlled through 2020
Swihart controlled through 2021
Benintendi controlled through 2022
Edro controlled through 2020
Price controlled through 2022
Porcello controlled through 2019
Sale controlled through 2019
Pedroia controlled through 2020

So that's your top-4 starters, your entire outfield, your middle infield and your catching situation, all controlled for the next three years. And that's before any of these guys sign any extensions.

The 2020 offseason might be brutal, but at this point there aren't that many openings for young players even if the system had more talent to promote.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
40,816
Anyone look at his August and September stats from last year?

4W 8L 10HR 87IP
Weird, because he only lost 7 games after the ASB last year.

He was 3-5 in Aug/Sep last year. In August he was 1-3 with an ERA below 3.00, In September he was 2-2, with an ERA of 3.75.

His first half was 14-3, his second half 3-7 with essentially the same peripherals.