Clippers unveiling new direct-to-consumer viewing option (Clippervision)

soxhop411

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The Los Angeles Clippers are trying to give their fans a new way to view games. A lot of new views, actually.


And one of them will even feature in-game commentary at times from Clippers chairman Steve Ballmer.

The Clippers announced Monday that they are launching a direct-to-consumer product featuring six different stream options, with more in the planning stages, and without any pay-television subscription required. The NBA’s new digital platform, which powers the league’s updated app, is the vehicle the Clippers have leveraged to make their idea happen.

The product — ClipperVision, it’s called — is a first for the NBA, and the team says it is planning on streaming more than 70 games live in-market this coming season.

“It’s inevitable. This is where things are going. It’s obvious,” Clippers President Gillian Zucker said. “The speed at which the pickup takes place, that’s the only question mark.”
In addition to live streams of traditional Clippers broadcasts, the product also has options where fans can choose an alternate stream; another that offers augmented graphics showing real-time shot probability and other stats during live play; options in both Spanish and Korean; and one called BallerVision — which will have a rotating lineup of analysts including Jamal Crawford, Baron Davis, Paul Pierce, Quentin Richardson, and Matt Barnes.
https://apnews.com/article/los-angeles-clippers-nba-sports-steve-ballmer-gillian-zucker-e26effde3fe9180e9e1d9f67e540604b
some samples of the alternative calls
View: https://twitter.com/TomerAzarly/status/1581982107936575488

Wonder if this becomes a trend in the NBA and other sports if it this becomes successful
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Without any details, even if Ballervision or BalmerVision ends up being a mixed bag - announcing live sports effectively takes some skill - this seems like a great idea. On screen nextgen data is really the new frontier imo and this seems to be headed in that direction.
 

Fishy1

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Why would I want half the screen being taken up by people's heads?
That's my immediate reaction as well. I suppose it doesn't matter if you have a gigantic television screen... but for the rest of us, it would be a major pain in the ass.
 

Van Everyman

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That's my immediate reaction as well. I suppose it doesn't matter if you have a gigantic television screen... but for the rest of us, it would be a major pain in the ass.
Maybe you could do it like Zoom does where the speaker is the one you see? At any rate he’s incredible how much COVID—and Manningcast—changed the game here.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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As with any new offering, this is likely to be long on hype and short on actual features.

That said, I certainly wouldn't expect this product to appeal to casual fans. However I will be surprised if hardcore fans don't jump at the opportunity to choose their view of a game. And again, having real time data accessible on screen is also attractive.

It feels like the Clippers are doing this with some intent so I would assume they have done some research. All I know is that whenever we see a new professional sports product or service like this where the initial response is "will anyone want to pay for that?" the answer almost always seems to be yes. Maybe this is the exception but I know if Boston were to offer something similar, I'd definitely consider it.
 

thehitcat

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I loved knowing what kind of percentage shot he was taking. I haven''t watched the second vid but if it's based on that player's history from that spot it's pretty cool.
 

Senator Donut

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Wonder if this becomes a trend in the NBA and other sports if it this becomes successful
Direct-to-consumer is already a trend. The Red Sox and Bruins are the most prominent examples to people on this board. I guess the Clippers are different because their streaming product includes alternate feeds and integrates with the existing NBA app, but I don't see how this would drive many additional subscribers.
 

Ale Xander

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Direct-to-consumer is already a trend. The Red Sox and Bruins are the most prominent examples to people on this board. I guess the Clippers are different because their streaming product includes alternate feeds and integrates with the existing NBA app, but I don't see how this would drive many additional subscribers.
The Clippers are different because the question is open on whether they have fans.

If the Lakers did this, this would be really hot.
 

savage362

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I loved knowing what kind of percentage shot he was taking. I haven''t watched the second vid but if it's based on that player's history from that spot it's pretty cool.
I'm not a fan of the placement for the probability being in a big box that pops up in the middle of the screen. If they were to drop that info into the scorebug or corner of the screen somewhere I'd be okay with it.
 
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serotonin

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If the Celtics could do a version of this that would allow me to watch every Cs game with the radio broadcast team I would pay basically any dollar amount.
 

88 MVP

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This is $199.99 for the season.
That’s double the price of League Pass (and more than double the single-team League Pass subscription). The added team content would need to be really unique for me to subscribe to a service like this.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Isn’t there a no cost way to do that right now?
Not out of market. I am also a huge Grande & Max fan and if I could get their feed over the stream, I'd be willing to pay up as well. These streaming services are great at exposing you to other talented PBP and color folks but they also reinforce that the Celtics have one of the best radio broadcasts in the game. Of course I am biased.
 

TripleOT

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Not out of market. I am also a huge Grande & Max fan and if I could get their feed over the stream, I'd be willing to pay up as well. These streaming services are great at exposing you to other talented PBP and color folks but they also reinforce that the Celtics have one of the best radio broadcasts in the game. Of course I am biased.
Can you listen to it online through the 98.5 app?
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Can you listen to it online through the 98.5 app?
I haven't tried recently. In the past, those apps had location features which prevented out of market listeners from accessing the stream unless they subscribe via another service (e.g. League Pass).
 

ElUno20

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That’s double the price of League Pass (and more than double the single-team League Pass subscription). The added team content would need to be really unique for me to subscribe to a service like this.
Theyre running a 100 off promo now. I suspect, at this first year, promos will be running all the time.
 

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Since the WWW really started taking off, I've wondered if any of the sports leagues—the NFL would lend itself particularly well to this—would offer a choice among a range of audio feeds tailed to, among other things, level of knowledge. Like, maybe a standard color commentary, but also a couple of X-and-O broadcasts, maybe one more rudimentary and one more advanced. Seemed like a great way to engage product differentiation in ways that could make it both more accessible broadly and also higher quality for a targeted audience, etc. for not a lot of money given how many people could do a good job for cheap—the celebrity announcer model is kinda silly.

I can't tell if it's the Coach's view or the Player's view that has the play diagramming, but this seems like an interesting step in that direction. Of course, the product here is only as good as the algorithms, and the play I saw consistently diagrammed was, like, a single screen and then a wiggly line showing where the guy who just drove to the hoop ran from. But if they can get that thing working at a high level, that could be very, very cool. And, as per above, there could be, like, a 101 version and an advanced version. It could also lend itself to much improved post-game breakdowns to educate the fan who checks those but maybe doesn't pour over YouTube videos after the fact.

We'll see. Ballmer says he's been thinking about this for over 10 years... not sure what took so long; this is, like, what the internet is for. Well, besides porn.
 

8slim

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However I will be surprised if hardcore fans don't jump at the opportunity to choose their view of a game. And again, having real time data accessible on screen is also attractive.
I would be surprised if they do jump. Generally speaking, the attractiveness of alternate views is really overstated. Most people, even the most avid fans, don't want it. The novelty of being your own TV director wears off quickly. I've seen this in streaming data repeatedly.

And real time data is polarizing. A niche audience loves it (gamblers and fantasy players for the most part). "Regular" fans often think it detracts from the viewing experience if it's not presented in a measured way.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I would be surprised if they do jump. Generally speaking, the attractiveness of alternate views is really overstated. Most people, even the most avid fans, don't want it. The novelty of being your own TV director wears off quickly. I've seen this in streaming data repeatedly.

And real time data is polarizing. A niche audience loves it (gamblers and fantasy players for the most part). "Regular" fans often think it detracts from the viewing experience if it's not presented in a measured way.
I defer to your experience in this field. My view is informed by the fact that over time, offerings that cater to the more fanatical tend to do fairly well. There are people on this site who subscribe to subscription stats services (e.g. Basketball Index) not for gambling or fantasy but simply because they want more information.

Is there a huge cost to a service like this? I am completely out of my depth on this topic but I would guess overlaying the stat package or allowing users to customize their announcing feeds isn't that hard or costly to do. Even if the Clippers sell a few hundred subscriptions, it seems like they would be able to capture marginal revenue vs the old LP model.

Again, if I could get a synched stream with the radio broadcast, that's worth something to me. Add in the ability to see or customize what graphics you have onscreen and I am all-in.

I am clearly on an island here but if the Clippers are doing this, presumably they've done some research that suggests its a viable idea. As we all know, new products and services fail all the time, even if there is demand. Maybe this follows suit.
 

Reverend

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It occurs to me that, for some fans, being able to watch a game live with the “normal” broadcast but then rewatch it with special player commentary, on-screen stats, play diagramming, etc. could be pretty awesome.
 

TripleOT

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One of the channels should be where the announcer is like the one at the Rucker league, where he comments on every play and gives everybody nicknames.

I would definitely watch a feed where say Kevin Garnett and Paul Pierce talked during the game as it was going on in real time. That would be fun especially if they’re being totally unfiltered.
 

8slim

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I defer to your experience in this field. My view is informed by the fact that over time, offerings that cater to the more fanatical tend to do fairly well. There are people on this site who subscribe to subscription stats services (e.g. Basketball Index) not for gambling or fantasy but simply because they want more information.

Is there a huge cost to a service like this? I am completely out of my depth on this topic but I would guess overlaying the stat package or allowing users to customize their announcing feeds isn't that hard or costly to do. Even if the Clippers sell a few hundred subscriptions, it seems like they would be able to capture marginal revenue vs the old LP model.

Again, if I could get a synched stream with the radio broadcast, that's worth something to me. Add in the ability to see or customize what graphics you have onscreen and I am all-in.

I am clearly on an island here but if the Clippers are doing this, presumably they've done some research that suggests its a viable idea. As we all know, new products and services fail all the time, even if there is demand. Maybe this follows suit.
If the Clippers expectation is that they can attract a few thousand subscribers for this kind of service I think that's reasonable. I imagine any research they did (and I wouldn't presume they did a lot, other than farm it out to a consultant who would tell them what they want to hear) would support that kind of subscriber base.

That aside, most of these direct-to-consumer streaming products are being launched in anticipation of replacing a meaningful chunk of regional sports network revenue. That's going to be difficult, if not impossible, to do on an individual team basis. The scale just ain't there at a price point that yields enough revenue.

So I'd say my overall point here is not that there's NO market for a service like this. Just that it's niche.
 

8slim

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It occurs to me that, for some fans, being able to watch a game live with the “normal” broadcast but then rewatch it with special player commentary, on-screen stats, play diagramming, etc. could be pretty awesome.
You're describing the ESPN+ show Detail.
 

8slim

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Available in real time and immediately after every game?
No, usually a few days for some episodes (others were historical). But if you want something like you suggest it'd be exceedingly difficult to produce it that quickly, particularly if you want current players narrating and diagramming plays. And like I mentioned to DeJesus, it's a niche program.
 

mikeot

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I'm not a fan of the placement for the probably being in a big box that pops up in the middle of the screen. If they were to drop that info into the scorebug or corner of the screen somewhere I'd be okay with it.
Ideally I'd watch this on a laptop or tablet while the TV has the regular broadcast. I already do that for a lot of stuff, sports and otherwise.
 

Reverend

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No, usually a few days for some episodes (others were historical). But if you want something like you suggest it'd be exceedingly difficult to produce it that quickly, particularly if you want current players narrating and diagramming plays. And like I mentioned to DeJesus, it's a niche program.
Did you watch the videos posted?

Because I mean exactly that, which is the product—productS, really—that they are claiming to provide. As such, this is not a hypothetical. So your posts are utterly confusing to me.
 

8slim

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Did you watch the videos posted?

Because I mean exactly that, which is the product—productS, really—that they are claiming to provide. As such, this is not a hypothetical. So your posts are utterly confusing to me.
The clips are things that every national network does today, in limited doses, for every sport. Real time advanced stats, heat maps, play diagrams, secondary audio, etc. And I'm explaining, as someone who sees the audience data from those treatments, both for traditional TV and streaming services, that the majority of sports fans prefer the usual broadcast and will not pay for the other stuff. I'm not trying to be argumentative or confusing, I'm explaining facts that I've seen for more than a decade.

I thought the alternate broadcast you were suggesting was a post-game, "director's commentary" with current players narrating, diagramming plays, etc. Perhaps I was mistaken.
 

scott bankheadcase

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If the Clippers expectation is that they can attract a few thousand subscribers for this kind of service I think that's reasonable. I imagine any research they did (and I wouldn't presume they did a lot, other than farm it out to a consultant who would tell them what they want to hear) would support that kind of subscriber base.
So.... I worked on this product. I won't go into much detail publicly, but the amount of research done was immense and started half a decade ago.

All that said, this was Balmer's baby since the day he bought the team basically, so there's definitely an element of make Steve happy going on.
 

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The clips are things that every national network does today, in limited doses, for every sport. Real time advanced stats, heat maps, play diagrams, secondary audio, etc. And I'm explaining, as someone who sees the audience data from those treatments, both for traditional TV and streaming services, that the majority of sports fans prefer the usual broadcast and will not pay for the other stuff. I'm not trying to be argumentative or confusing, I'm explaining facts that I've seen for more than a decade.

I thought the alternate broadcast you were suggesting was a post-game, "director's commentary" with current players narrating, diagramming plays, etc. Perhaps I was mistaken.
Yes, I understand about people not liking it when they fuck with the standard broadcast. But this product allows different people to choose what they personally want. That is completely a different thing from imposing one possibly objectionable format on everyone uniformly.

Similarly, if they simulcast, say, four formats at once, one cam watch one version and then watch another immediately after (or at some other time as they prefer) because it alread exists.

I’m not trying to be argumentative either, I’m just unclear why the difference between imposing a programming regime on all people being unpopular, as I think you correctly describe, is not clearly different from offering different viewers different options.
 

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So.... I worked on this product. I won't go into much detail publicly, but the amount of research done was immense and started half a decade ago.

All that said, this was Balmer's baby since the day he bought the team basically, so there's definitely an element of make Steve happy going on.
This place is so awesome.
 

8slim

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Yes, I understand about people not liking it when they fuck with the standard broadcast. But this product allows different people to choose what they personally want. That is completely a different thing from imposing one possibly objectionable format on everyone uniformly.

Similarly, if they simulcast, say, four formats at once, one cam watch one version and then watch another immediately after (or at some other time as they prefer) because it alread exists.

I’m not trying to be argumentative either, I’m just unclear why the difference between imposing a programming regime on all people being unpopular, as I think you correctly describe, is not clearly different from offering different viewers different options.
The things I'm referencing are not impositions on the main broadcast. They're all alternate feed or streaming products. And they've all been very accessible without additional subscriber fees. Think CFP Megacasts and the like.

These are built for niche audiences, and the data proves that out.
 

8slim

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So.... I worked on this product. I won't go into much detail publicly, but the amount of research done was immense and started half a decade ago.

All that said, this was Balmer's baby since the day he bought the team basically, so there's definitely an element of make Steve happy going on.
Nice! The research probably tapped into a lot of the same sources I use. Very cool.
 

scott bankheadcase

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Nice! The research probably tapped into a lot of the same sources I use. Very cool.
On a very general level (and you reference this in your previous post) all these DTC products have a underlying message to RSNs (and Nationals) that if push came to shove the league COULD do this themselves. So in negotiations there's always that leverage when needed.
 

Reverend

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These are built for niche audiences,
well… obviously.

My first post on this literally mentions “product differentiation”.

Whether or not that particular angle can be a money maker is obviously debatable. If there’s reason to believe it can’t be profitable, I’m obviously open to hearing it because I’d like to understand.
 

8slim

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On a very general level (and you reference this in your previous post) all these DTC products have a underlying message to RSNs (and Nationals) that if push came to shove the league COULD do this themselves. So in negotiations there's always that leverage when needed.
Yup. And as I'm sure you're keenly aware, the challenge (among many) is that owners lovvvvvve those gigantic checks they get from the networks for media rights. Taking rights and production in-house is certainly possible, but the economics really don't work. The NBA isn't going to make anywhere near the same kind of profit from direct-to-consumer as they do from the major media companies (and likely the major streamers) bidding for rights.

Anyway, awesome that you worked on this service. The tech lift couldn't have been easy.
 

8slim

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well… obviously.

My first post on this literally mentions “product differentiation”.

Whether or not that particular angle can be a money maker is obviously debatable. If there’s reason to believe it can’t be profitable, I’m obviously open to hearing it because I’d like to understand.
Very few direct-to-consumer streaming services are profitable at the moment. And I'm talking broadly, not just sports. Obviously it's not just the cost of personnel, development, production and bandwith. It's also spending on marketing, churn mitigation, customer service, and the like.

I'm not suggesting a service like this could never be profitable. But eeking out a thin margin on the backs of, say, 25K subscribers is not the end goal I suspect. This is about building a product that can ultimately replace the local RSN, as those slowly fade into Bolivian. That's a much different calculation, and it's very unclear if the economics of that will ever work. Now... if Amazon was interested in buying the local rights to all 30 franchises and offering an in-market streaming product?... that's a totally different calculus.