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chris hansen of goats
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HomeRunBaker said:
What talent was that? The only NBA prospects he brought in over 5 years was Harkless and Obekpa. He drafted some other nice players but I always felt the lack of impact guys is where Lavin and St Johns have fallen short.
 
I wouldn't sell Pointer short. He had a monster second half and stands a good chance of being drafted.
 

DJnVa

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Dec 16, 2010
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CBS is reporting that Texas is in discussions with Shaka Smart, however this evening VCU said that no school has received permission to talk with Shaka. The dance begins.
 

HomeRunBaker

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DrewDawg said:
CBS is reporting that Texas is in discussions with Shaka Smart, however this evening VCU said that no school has received permission to talk with Shaka. The dance begins.
LOL!! Does the VCU spokesperson still use dial-up for an internet connection? Permissions only apply to players looking to transfer as the player would need a written or verbal permission to do so.

There is no such permission required for a college coach under contract to speak to other schools for a bump up the pay scale. It's hasn't even been a proper etiquette thing for years. VCU is positioning themselves for the sour grapes whoa is me angle.
 
Dec 10, 2012
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HomeRunBaker said:
LOL!! Does the VCU spokesperson still use dial-up for an internet connection? Permissions only apply to players looking to transfer as the player would need a written or verbal permission to do so.

There is no such permission required for a college coach under contract to speak to other schools for a bump up the pay scale. It's hasn't even been a proper etiquette thing for years. VCU is positioning themselves for the sour grapes whoa is me angle.
Mid-major v. wealthiest public school in the nation; woe is me is the expected play.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Dan to Theo to Ben said:
Mid-major v. wealthiest public school in the nation; woe is me is the expected play.
VCU was lucky to have had Shaka the past 3 years. They should stay classy and stfu instead of whining of that is what they are doing. To imply that Shaka/Texas is the bad guy for not asking for permission when that hasn't been the norm in over a decade is classless.
 

Average Reds

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If he's under contract to VCU (and he is until 2013) they absolutely need VCUs permission or they need to pay to get him out of his deal.

That's clearly what they'll do, but let's not pretend that Shaka is free to walk away without VCU having any say.
 

Orel Miraculous

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Dan to Theo to Ben said:
Mid-major v. wealthiest public school in the nation; woe is me is the expected play.
 
Eh, Shaka is going to leave someday but it won't be just about money or trying to step up from a "mid-major".  (1) he already gets paid over a million per year, (2) he's already turned down a UCLA job that probably paid close to $4 million, and (3) there's nothing small about VCU anymore--he just brought in a top 15 recruiting class, coaches in a sold-out arena every night, and is a couple of months away from opening a practice facility that's considered to be as state-of-the-art as any in the country.
 
Texas is a phenomenal job and he might take it, but let's not forget that at this time last year Marquette also figured they'd be able to sweep in and sign him just by virtue of them being Marquette and VCU being VCU.  Instead, he didn't even consider it.  Shaka is in a very, very good situation at VCU right now and he knows it. 
 

DJnVa

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Average Reds said:
If he's under contract to VCU (and he is until 2013) they absolutely need VCUs permission or they need to pay to get him out of his deal.
 
They don't need permission.  http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2014/11/04/college-basketball-coaching-etiquette/17659685/
 
"At one time, the proper, professional approach was to call the athletic director and ask permission to speak to the coach," Texas A&M athletic director Eric Hyman said. "At one time, that's the way we did our business. But that's dramatically changed."
Said McLaughlin: "Asking for permission to contact, and stuff like that — that stuff doesn't happen anymore. The professionalism in giving someone a heads up or letting them know — that's gone. That never happens."
 
 
 
Dec 10, 2012
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Orel Miraculous said:
 
Eh, Shaka is going to leave someday but it won't be just about money or trying to step up from a "mid-major".  (1) he already gets paid over a million per year, (2) he's already turned down a UCLA job that probably paid close to $4 million, and (3) there's nothing small about VCU anymore--he just brought in a top 15 recruiting class, coaches in a sold-out arena every night, and is a couple of months away from opening a practice facility that's considered to be as state-of-the-art as any in the country.
 
Texas is a phenomenal job and he might take it, but let's not forget that at this time last year Marquette also figured they'd be able to sweep in and sign him just by virtue of them being Marquette and VCU being VCU.  Instead, he didn't even consider it.  Shaka is in a very, very good situation at VCU right now and he knows it. 
That's true but the question raised was about VCU not Smart.  If he's under contract for next year, I disagree with HRB's contention that it's classless. It may not be smart, pun intended, in terms of finding a similarly qualified guy if/when he leaves, though.
 

DJnVa

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Shaka's last flirtation ended up with him getting more $$$ for his staff.
 
If he wants to take care of his guys---staff and players, he can much more easily do that coaching at Texas.
 

bibajesus

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Average Reds said:
If he's under contract to VCU (and he is until 2013) they absolutely need VCUs permission or they need to pay to get him out of his deal.

That's clearly what they'll do, but let's not pretend that Shaka is free to walk away without VCU having any say.
Im surprised he hasnt left VCU earlier since he has apparently been working for free for two years.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Average Reds said:
If he's under contract to VCU (and he is until 2013) they absolutely need VCUs permission or they need to pay to get him out of his deal.

That's clearly what they'll do, but let's not pretend that Shaka is free to walk away without VCU having any say.
I don't know where you heard this but it is absolutely incorrect. There is nothing restricting a head college basketball coach from walking away from a guaranteed contract. Neither Texas nor Shaka will owe VCU anything.

Edit: Should have refreshed prior to commenting. What DD said.
 

Average Reds

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DrewDawg said:
 
You are talking about etiquette. I'm talking about the legality of jumping from one school to another when you are under contract.
 
Smart signed an extension that keeps him at VCU until 2023.  Regardless of what the current "etiquette" is, he can't leave VCU and accept a job at another school unless VCU releases him from that contract.
 
 
HomeRunBaker said:
I don't know where you heard this but it is absolutely incorrect. There is nothing restricting a head college basketball coach from walking away from a guaranteed contract. Neither Texas nor Shaka will owe VCU anything.

Edit: Should have refreshed prior to commenting. What DD said.
 
Let's be clear about what we're talking about.  Smart can leave VCU and there's nothing VCU can do about it.  But he can't leave VCU to go to Texas during the term of the contract he has with VCU unless VCU agrees.
 
Because Texas can pay any price that VCU demands, the reality is that if Texas wants him, they'll get him.  But let's not pretend that Smart and Texas don't need VCU to release him from the contract, because they do.
 

DJnVa

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But the first post you responded to was talking about Texas talking to Smart, and VCU responding that no school has asked for permission to talk with him. We're simply saying they don't need that.
 
Of course there will be buyouts, etc. But for where the process is now, VCU saying Texas hasn't asked for permission is meaningless.
 
 
 
 But he can't leave VCU to go to Texas during the term of the contract he has with VCU unless VCU agrees.
 
This is just incorrect. VCU has already "agreed" by putting buyout terms in his contract.
 
 
If Smart takes another job before April 30, 2014, he will owe VCU $600,000. That amount decreases $100,000 per year.
 
That's it. He has "permission" to leave in the form of that buyout. There's not a single thing VCU can do at this point if he wants to go. There's no release that VCU needs to trigger.
 
There's also this:
 
A school that lures Smart from VCU is obligated to play a home-and-home series with VCU or buy out the games for $250,000.
 
 

DJnVa

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Here's a good article on this: http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaab/2014/11/04/college-basketball-coaching-etiquette/17659685/
 

Yet Haith is hardly the only coach to change jobs in the past few years by informing his current boss on the day of departure, or after the Ts were crossed and the Is dotted on the new job.
 
Informing---not asking to be released from a contract.
 
However, even that gesture — which would probably fall under the category of common courtesy — has become less frequent in recent years, leaving some athletic directors blindsided by a coach bolting for what he sees as greener pastures.
 
 
"That doesn't exist on the intercollegiate front, in terms of notice," said Hughes, the headhunter. "When (Wisconsin athletic director) Barry Alvarez lost his football coach to Arkansas, he was shocked. That happens."
 
 

HomeRunBaker

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In today's landscape there are mutual buyout clauses in every coaches contract. It's part of the business of the game. The bigger the contract the more creative the buyouts are.
 

Average Reds

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OK, I misread the initial post I responded to as being not about permission, but about Smart having complete freedom to simply leave VCU for another school. 
 
Of course he can talk to whoever he wants. He's always been able to do that.  I was referring to the fact that small schools or mid-majors have buyouts that protect them when larger schools come calling.  And we're saying the same thing there.
 

DJnVa

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Okay...gotcha.
 
But I think what HRB and I are saying is that the buyout is already negotiated and Smart wouldn't need to go back to VCU at this point for permission or to have them sign off.
 
Anyhow, this may come to a head today: http://texas.scout.com/story/1532972-texas-hoops-search-focusing-on-smart

 
[SIZE=12pt]And Patterson's search appears to be zeroing in on the 37-year-old Shaka Smart, whom Patterson has already spoken to twice, the sources said.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]"Things are warm right now, but they could be heating up," one source close to the situation told HD Monday night.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]Another source said they expected Patterson to offer Smart the Texas job, possibly as early as Tuesday.[/SIZE]
 
 

Average Reds

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DrewDawg said:
Okay...gotcha.
 
But I think what HRB and I are saying is that the buyout is already negotiated and Smart wouldn't need to go back to VCU at this point for permission or to have them sign off.
 
Anyhow, this may come to a head today: http://texas.scout.com/story/1532972-texas-hoops-search-focusing-on-smart
 
 
In cases where the buyout is already negotiated, the "permission" is the buyout price. 
 
I had assumed that the VCU caterwauling was simply a negotiating posture designed to maximize the price for Smart's release.  But I see from your post that he has a buyout in place and it is ridiculously small.
 
This completes the circle and demonstrates once again that the old saying about assumptions is true.
 

MillarTime

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I've learned that Texas' search firm reached out to representatives of Jay Wright to gauge his interest. Was told thanks but no thanks.
 
 

DJnVa

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I love that state schools need to post this: https://utdirect.utexas.edu/apps/hr/jobs/nlogon/150331010806
 

Head Coach - Head Coach, Men's Basketball
 
Hours per week 40.00 Standard from 800AM to 500PM
 
Licenses: Class "C" Operator's Driver's License.
 
May work around standard office conditions Repetitive use of a keyboard at a workstation Use of manual dexterity Climbing of stairs Lifting and moving
 

DJnVa

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Smart to Texas rumors heating up this afternoon.
 
There's a rumor out there that the job posting for Texas has to be for a minimum of 5 days, so there may not be an official announcement until next week.
 

Dan Murfman

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DrewDawg said:
Smart to Texas rumors heating up this afternoon.
 
There's a rumor out there that the job posting for Texas has to be for a minimum of 5 days, so there may not be an official announcement until next week.
Don't go trolling the VCU board
 

mabrowndog

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I'm not sure what that says more about: Wichita's firm commitment to competing with the big boys -- or how unattractive the Alabama  job is despite being in a conference with the likes of Calipari, Donovan, Pearl, Howland, Martin & Stallings leading programs.
 

DJnVa

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VCU has called a team meeting 10 pm. It was originally scheduled for 8 pm.  The Texas AD is still in Richmond.
 

Greg29fan

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https://twitter.com/michaelpRTD/status/583818777017593856
 

canderson

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Smart has previously turned down UCLA, NC State, Maryland, Marquette, Illinois, Wake Forest, and USC.

\m/
 

jsinger121

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canderson said:
Smart has previously turned down UCLA, NC State, Maryland, Marquette, Illinois, Wake Forest, and USC.

\m/
The only job possibly better than Texas is UCLA but you are in a huge market and living under the shadow of John Wooden. He took the right job. They will pay him extremely well and he wiLl build Texas to greater heights than Rick Barnes ever took them.
 

DJnVa

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yeahlunchbox said:
I can only imagine what Havoc will look like with the athletes he can get at Texas
 
Well, it won't be called Havoc. VCU owns the trademark.
 
 
 
 
Right after Shaka went to Texas, he offered Vermont Academy guard Bruce Brown.  He doesn't waste any time.
 
4 star VCU signee Tevin Mack removed "VCU" from his twitter profile last night. Another VCU signee is a 4 star kid from....wait for it....Texas.
 

canderson

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Not sure Smart will need a gimmicky-type approach like Havoc now that he'll have boatloads of athletes. Will be interesting to see,
 

canderson

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RedOctober3829 said:
He'll coach the same way he's always coached.
Oh yeah, I just meant the terminology and how it had been marketed. His pressing will not stop, hooray.