Collins traded to Cleveland per Schefter

[lexrageorge]

In some ways, this reminds me of the fallout of the Moss trade.

Something must have been up with Collins, as I cannot see why they Pats felt they needed to trade him now. Then again, that Lombardi tweet indicates that there's at least smoke around Collins' decline this year. Otherwise, the return just doesn't appear to be worth the trouble.

I'm of the belief that there's a player the Pats are targeting on the defensive side of the ball.

 

[H78]

Why is what he wanted for a contract relevant to winning this year?

Pure speculation, but maybe he was being kind of a dick around the team and projecting a bad attitude because the Pats weren't paying him what he wants?

 

[RedOctober3829]

In some ways, this reminds me of the fallout of the Moss trade.

Something must have been up with Collins, as I cannot see why they Pats felt they needed to trade him now. Then again, that Lombardi tweet indicates that there's at least smoke around Collins' decline this year. Otherwise, the return just doesn't appear to be worth the trouble.

I'm of the belief that there's a player the Pats are targeting on the defensive side of the ball.

Collins' teammates have been blindsided by the news of the trade, sources told the Herald. This was not a situation that had been building in the locker room, which can sometimes be the case when a star is shipped out of town.

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/patriots/the_blitz/2016/10/source_patriots_trade_jamie_collins_to_browns

 

[BigSoxFan]

This pick can be traded before tomorrow, right? Any chance it will be re-purposed for another player?

 

[rodderick]

In true Boston sports fashion, we're already getting the "he was actually not that good a player", "he's a malcontent" and "he wanted way too much money" narratives on their way.

 

[C4CRVT]

In the past two years, I've become accustomed to the notion that the Patriots D was "on the verge" of becoming an elite D. Remember the Jones/Hightower/Collins thread?

Maybe I'm feeling nostalgic for the elite D that I thought was going to happen but Collins just isn't the same guy.

 

[Stitch01]

In true Boston sports fashion, we're already getting the "he was actually not that good a player", "he's a malcontent" and "he wanted way too much money" narratives on their way.

Well the Pats at least thought he was one or a combination of all of these or else this trade doesn't happen.

 

[pedroia'sboys]

In true Boston sports fashion, we're already getting the "he was actually not that good a player", "he's a malcontent" and "he wanted way too much money" narratives on their way.

Well he has been outplayed by a 6th round pick has been not good since last year. If he was playing like 2014 he would be here.

 

[amarshal2]

Ok fine. You don't want to be here? Enjoy Cleveland then. On to Roberts.

Why would BB trade a guy who he thinks helps his team in 2016 for the same compensation he gets by holding onto him and letting him walk?

He wouldn't.

The answer is that BB thinks they're better without Collins. (Or there's an injury)

 

[H78]

It could also be a way of Bill emphasizing, "We're 7-1 but on the defensive side of the ball we're getting far too comfortable. Do your job or you're out."

He could be trying to shake up any "comfort" level the team may be feeling being three games up in the division.

But also count me in the camp that thinks there's another trade about to happen - either at LB, CB, OL, or some combination of the three.

 

[bankshot1]

a new member of the Lawyer Milloy Club

WOW

shocked is mild.

Totally out of the blue.

And a compensatory 3rd?

Bill sends messages.

 

[lexrageorge]

In true Boston sports fashion, we're already getting the "he was actually not that good a player", "he's a malcontent" and "he wanted way too much money" narratives on their way.

Well, the "wanted way too much money" was probably correct. Not that that by itself justifies the trade, but it seems accurate.

The "not that good a player" is at least worthy of some discussion: he's been trending down this season by all accounts.

"Malcontent": It's clear that Lombardi does not like him. But that's just one guy.

The Patriots do not have a Larry Lucchino to publish a whisper campaign after a player leaves.

 

[kenneycb]

Lombardi likes him, just thinks he disappears too much. He said on the Simmons podcast that the defense goes basically as Jamie goes. And he hasn't been going much this season.

 

[rodderick]

Well, the "wanted way too much money" was probably correct. Not that that by itself justifies the trade, but it seems accurate.

The "not that good a player" is at least worthy of some discussion: he's been trending down this season by all accounts.

"Malcontent": It's clear that Lombardi does not like him. But that's just one guy.

The Patriots do not have a Larry Lucchino to publish a whisper campaign after a player leaves.

Surely it's a coincidence that reports that he wanted Von Miller money and Lombardi slamming his play are coming out right now.

 

[genoasalami]

Why would BB trade a guy who he thinks helps his team in 2016 for the same compensation he gets by holding onto him and letting him walk?

He wouldn't.

The answer is that BB thinks they're better without Collins. (Or there's an injury)

the coaching staff is looking at a lot more game film than anyone on this board is. If they think it's the right move then so be it. You can't have an all-pro at every position. It's constantly parts in motion. My buddy who is a huge Bengals fan texted me "Good for you. Very pro-active. Mike Brown sleeps like a baby every night. Win or lose. No worries. Just keep the TV revenue coming in"

 

[Ralphwiggum]

In true Boston sports fashion, we're already getting the "he was actually not that good a player", "he's a malcontent" and "he wanted way too much money" narratives on their way.

I mean, Bill Belichick must believe one of these things is true, right? I am betting on the "he was actually not that good" one being the one. The contract is irrelevant for this year and I've heard nothing about locker room issues.

He may be wrong and you can disagree, but the only conclusion you can reach here is that BB feels like the team is better without Collins, for whatever reason.

 

[Stitch01]

One half nitpick, the Pats weren't automatically getting a 3rd round comp pick for Collins if he left. If they kept Collins and didn't resign them and then signed, just to make up examples, Alshon Jeffery or Stephon Gilmore they probably get offset under the rules and no compensation is awarded.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

Elandon Roberts, who has clearly outplayed Collins when on the field.

Roberts has been a beast. Collins was clearly down this year for whatever reason. Not getting anywhere on contract talks must have had impact on his performance.

As far as getting Thomas and/or Haden, Pats need $ to get the other guys to sign.

Also, have you seen Haden play this year? Hint: not very well. Take a look at his contract too. It's way worse than Revis': http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/joe-haden-6516/ ($14.4m next year & next with $6.4m and $3.2m cap hit)

 

[Cellar-Door]

A little disappointed, though he's been basically invisible so far.
I know this is dumb, but I kind of wish we had at least gotten the rights to Josh Gordon thrown in.

 

[Sox and Rocks]

On the plus side, Collins is going to have significantly more chances to block extra points now.

This post is terrific and deserves love.

 

[Van Everyman]

It could also be a way of Bill emphasizing, "We're 7-1 but on the defensive side of the ball we're getting far too comfortable. Do your job or you're out."

He could be trying to shake up any "comfort" level the team may be feeling being three games up in the division.

But also count me in the camp that thinks there's another trade about to happen - either at LB, CB, OL, or some combination of the three.

This is exactly how I feel about this at first blush. Consider:

Here's what we know:
1) He's not been playing well.
2) His lack of discipline is harming the defensive performance
3) He's a free agent after this year
4) He's asking for a TON of money

We can also take a guess that his lack of discipline is harming the locker room as well. Once again, Belichick is sending a message to his team that your talent is worthless to him if you don't do your job.

 

[riboflav]

Collins has been brutal this year and Lombardi signaled this a week ago. Color me #notsurprised.

 

[Mooch]

It's been widely reported that it will be for the Browns 3rd round comp pick they will get for losing Alex Mack.

How can you trade a pick that you don't yet have? Compensatory picks don't get awarded until March.

 

[Darnell's Son]

 

[JimD]

Why would BB trade a guy who he thinks helps his team in 2016 for the same compensation he gets by holding onto him and letting him walk?

He wouldn't.

The answer is that BB thinks they're better without Collins. (Or there's an injury)

This.

The shock value is icing on the cake, especially to a defense that is not delivering the expected results and committed a bunch of penalties yesterday.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

Why is what he wanted for a contract relevant to winning this year?

Obvious answer: swapping out 2016 Collins with a full-time Elandon Roberts does not hurt the chances of winning this year.

Even national guys (Around the NFL, Dameshek crew, The Ringer, etc.) all have mentioned the invisible Collins this year. 2016 Collins was not the All-Pro we all remember.

 

[rodderick]

I mean, Bill Belichick must believe one of these things is true, right? I am betting on the "he was actually not that good" one being the one. The contract is irrelevant for this year and I've heard nothing about locker room issues.

He may be wrong and you can disagree, but the only conclusion you can reach here is that BB feels like the team is better without Collins, for whatever reason.

I'm not saying those statements are untrue, just that I haven't seen the press overtly criticizing Collins for his play this season, or talking about any locker room issues or unreasonable money demands. But as soon as he's gone, those narratives start being pushed. It's obvious that internally the organization believes at least one of those things is true to some degree, but it's funny to see the little smear campaign start almost immediately from people with strong Patriots connections.

I'm not even a big Collins fan, always thought he was an extremely boom or bust player that never consistently lived up to his athletic potential. I just think he's still one of the team's top 2 LB'ers and if it means they have to now rely on a 6th round pick and an assortment of early round disappointments at that position I'd like the return on that move to be a little better than just anticipating a third round compensatory selection by one year.

 

[Stitch01]

Roberts has been a beast. Collins was clearly down this year for whatever reason. Not getting anywhere on contract talks must have had impact on his performance.

As far as getting Thomas and/or Haden, Pats need $ to get the other guys to sign.

Also, have you seen Haden play this year? Hint: not very well. Take a look at his contract too. It's way worse than Revis': http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/joe-haden-6516/ ($14.4m next year & next with $6.4m and $3.2m cap hit)

Yeah Haden isn't an asset. Thomas would have been nice and the comment on Josh Gordon's rights as a kicker is interesting, I would have liked that lottery ticket but sort of the antithesis of a dependability is more important than ability philosophy.

 

[jsinger121]

 

[BigSoxFan]

This post is terrific and deserves love.

I'm not emotionally ready yet to laugh at that quality post...

 

[Shelterdog]

One half nitpick, the Pats weren't automatically getting a 3rd round comp pick for Collins if he left. If they kept Collins and didn't resign them and then signed, just to make up examples, Alshon Jeffery or Stephon Gilmore they probably get offset under the rules and no compensation is awarded.

I think you can also lose the Collins presumptive third round pick for a lower rated but still qualifying player--for example if the only qualifying player that the Patriots lose is Collins who's valued as a third round pick and they sign some random DT who's valued as a sixth the third rounder cancels out the sixth rounder.

http://overthecap.com/the-basics-and-methodology-of-projecting-the-nfls-compensatory-draft-picks/

I'm not sure this is an issue though--Ryan, Harmon and possibly Sheard are all likely to sign on and qualify for comp pick compensation.

 

[Stitch01]

I'm not saying those statements are untrue, just that I haven't seen the press overtly criticizing Collins for his play this season, or talking about any locker room issues or unreasonable money demands. But as soon as he's gone, those narratives start being pushed. It's obvious that internally the organization believes at least one of those things is true to some degree, but it's funny to see the little smear campaign start almost immediately from people with strong Patriots connections.

I'm not even a big Collins fan, always thought he was an extremely boom or bust player that never consistently lived up to his athletic potential. I just think he's still one of the team's top 2 LB'ers and if it means they have to now rely on a 6th round pick and an assortment of early round disappointments at that position I'd like the return on that move to be a little better than just anticipating a third round compensatory selection by one year.

Yeah, its the depth thing for me, Hightower gets hurt and the depth chart turns into the island of misfit toys.

I wonder if they make some schematic changes over the bye to make the system less linebacker dependent, for lack of a better way to phrase it.

Also think this move sheds at least some light on where BB stands on the ongoing debate of "how good is this defense".

 

[dcmissle]

So it's at the end of 3rd or beginning of 4th, and a year early.

I wonder if Pats could have gotten better comp from another team or tried to.

Not going to jump ugly on this. There is much we do not know.

 

[jablo1312]

I keep forgetting Sheard is a FA too. He's got a pretty huge 8 game stAt retch coming up. If he can throw up like 8-9 sacks he'll probably be looking at something like 4 years 60 million. Sheard, Hightower, Butler, maybe Ryan but probably not...that's a lot of guys to pay. Hope Roberts and Van Noy are up to the task here b/c Collins is a baller, gonna miss watching him play.

Unrelated- I'd say it's probably that one day, this team is going to trade Tom Brady and Rob Gronkowski. The reaction threads to those are going to be simply outstanding.

 

[Stitch01]

I think you can also lose the Collins presumptive third round pick for a lower rated but still qualifying player--for example if the only qualifying player that the Patriots lose is Collins who's valued as a third round pick and they sign some random DT who's valued as a sixth the third rounder cancels out the sixth rounder.

http://overthecap.com/the-basics-and-methodology-of-projecting-the-nfls-compensatory-draft-picks/

I'm not sure this is an issue though--Ryan, Harmon and possibly Sheard are all likely to sign on and qualify for comp pick compensation.

You are 100% correct, I didn't get into that for the sake of simplicity and because it was unlikely to happen.

 

[The Tax Man]

Here's the play that Lombardi referenced. It does appear that Collins should have had outside containment on it.

 

[Rook05]

Damn, this is coldblooded, especially in the context of Chandler Jones' comments about being traded to Arizona.

I hope Collins bought refundable tickets for his bye weekend vacation.

 

[pappymojo]

I think you can also lose the Collins presumptive third round pick for a lower rated but still qualifying player--for example if the only qualifying player that the Patriots lose is Collins who's valued as a third round pick and they sign some random DT who's valued as a sixth the third rounder cancels out the sixth rounder.

http://overthecap.com/the-basics-and-methodology-of-projecting-the-nfls-compensatory-draft-picks/

I'm not sure this is an issue though--Ryan, Harmon and possibly Sheard are all likely to sign on and qualify for comp pick compensation.

That was what I was thinking. There may be a player hitting free agency that the Patriots covet. If they lost Collins but signed an equivalent free agent from another team, the two moves offset and the Patriots would not be awarded a comp pick at all. this trade at least locks in value rather than risking getting nothing in return.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

One bad play doesn't mean a guy should be traded. I assume there was more going on.

That being said, I don't really understand this move at all. At least get someone back along with the pick.

 

[PaulinMyrBch]

The lesson is always, don't buy the jersey of a guy in the last year of his contract. Wait for it to go on sale.

 

[Morning Woodhead]

So it's at the end of 3rd or beginning of 4th, and a year early.

I wonder if Pats could have gotten better comp from another team or tried to.

Not going to jump ugly on this. There is much we do not know.

If you buy into the "sending a message to the rest of the team" strategy, there is no stronger message than "stop sucking or go play in Cleveland"

 

[RedOctober3829]

 

[RG33]

I was definitely surprised by this move, but am totally fine with it. My Dad and I were talking yesterday at what a great surprise Elandon Roberts has been, and how it probably solidified the fact that Collins was not going to be re-signed.

Thanks for the memories Jamie -- good luck in Cleveland.

 

[8slim]

Here's the play that Lombardi referenced. It does appear that Collins should have had outside containment on it.

I'm the furthest thing from a knowledgeable Xs and Os guy, but even *I* noticed how poorly he looked on that play.

But it's 1 play. I imagine there are dozens like it that led to this decisions?

 

[Mugsy's Jock]

Wondering if Collins availability is a factor? Missed a game this year, and four last year (when he had the ebola, if memory serves).

I'm super disappointed in the return, but in Bill we Trust. I wonder how much BB would've taken into consideration not trading Collins to a competitive team that might've been willing to pay more (e.g. Steelers, Broncos, Raiders...)? Or even an NFL SUper Bowl contender team (Cowboys, Packers)?

 

[Morning Woodhead]

Remember the Hightower, Jones, Collins thread where everyone debated who was most important to the team. Well now BB has weighed in.

 

[Ale Xander]

Makes no sense

Wtf

Maybe something having to do with his tweets, espeisallh the "shit shit shit" recently?

If this is just for on field stuff makes no sense

 

[The Tax Man]

One bad play doesn't mean a guy should be traded. I assume there was more going on.

That being said, I don't really understand this move at all. At least get someone back along with the pick.

Isn't Lombardi saying that the more going on was that Collins was freelancing? It's not that he made a bad decision or bad play. It's that he shot the hole when he was supposed to have outside containment.

 

[jsinger121]

One bad play doesn't mean a guy should be traded. I assume there was more going on.

That being said, I don't really understand this move at all. At least get someone back along with the pick.

Getting torched twice by the washed up Owen Daniels in the AFC Championship game isn't a good look either.

 

[Toe Nash]

I am surprised and knowing what I know (which isn't much) I wouldn't have made the trade. I would have tried to get Collins back into game shape; he has to be at least valuable as depth even if Roberts is going to get most of the snaps.

A positive to me is that this would presumably make it more likely they re-sign Hightower and Butler, both of whom I think are more important than Collins.