Computer build questions - uh oh

rembrat

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May 26, 2006
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But if they are so unpopular why are they always out of stock? Thanks for the link. I'll add it to the rest of the unpurchasable blue switch keyboards. :(
 

Couperin47

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rembrat said:
But if they are so unpopular why are they always out of stock? Thanks for the link. I'll add it to the rest of the unpurchasable blue switch keyboards. :(
 
We're into the keyboard variation on Yogi's famous remark about a restaurant: "Nobody goes there anymore because it's too crowded". Best guess: they tend to do smaller production runs using blues ?
 

Jack Clarks CFP

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Nov 2, 2005
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My son Zach just turned 16 and I'm thinking that it would be a cool father/son project to build a desktop together. My ulterior motive is to have him learn a practical skill set that at worst will make him more self-sufficient, perhaps develop into a hobby that he's passionate about, and potentially wake him up to some potential career paths down the road.
 
I'd appreciate any input you all might have on doing this. Bear in mind that Zach has essentially no experience with hardware (or anything beyond playing games for that matter) and, while I've swapped out the occasional drive, PSU, or video card, I've never built a box from scratch before. I'd love to hear if you all think this is a good idea, or if we might be biting off more than we can chew.
 
Assuming the former, I'd also appreciate anything you can share regarding tools, parts lists, etc. What kinds of things would make the project easier that a novice might not think about? I'm planning on building a light gaming rig with an initial budget of around $500 (give or take) with the thought of upgrading it together over time - using gifts or earnings to add RAM or upgrade the CPU or video card, for example. What can we wait on and what should we splurge on initially?  I've been to pcpartpicker.com, but I don't know enough about brand quality or compatibility issues to make intelligent choices so any help there would be awesome. Lastly Zach is 16, so boxes/keyboards that light up or dispense Mountain Dew would be cool/gnarly/rad/whatever kids say nowadays :)
 
Thanks again, guys. Forums like this are why I love SoSH.
 

SumnerH

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There's no reason a first machine that's built as a learning experience really needs a video card--you may add it (and a fan/cooler) later on if he's a gamer, but you can get a basic machine working without adding that complication.

I built a machine recently with:

Case
Power supply (Corsair bronze)
motherboard (Asus z87 or similar)
CPU (Intel)
ram (Corsair Vengeance)
Crucial MX SSD (or hard drive)

I had these sitting around, you might need them:
monitor
keyboard
mouse

That's all you need. You really shouldn't need any tools beyond a Phillips head screwdriver.

Anything on top of that is gravy. Hit up pcpartpicker.com (as you know), find the exact versions of those components that fit your budget, and go sick. The important thing is not to be scared, it's easier than it seems and the site is pretty good about limiting you to compatible parts.
 

Gdiguy

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Jul 15, 2005
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Personally, I've always generally gone off of some sort of guide - I can't remember the website I used to like the most (it's been a couple years), but I've found articles like these usually helpful:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/build-budget-gaming-pc,4065.html
 
I'd change things about hard drives, graphics cards, etc, but it was easier for me to not have to worry about whether I was picking compatible CPU+mobo+ram than to really try to figure those out myself... though you can also just use it as a baseline and go out from there.
 
Also, keep in mind that Windows itself can run ~$100, so make sure to budget for that as well
 

SumnerH

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Gdiguy said:
Also, keep in mind that Windows itself can run ~$100, so make sure to budget for that as well
 
 
If you're doing it to learn technical skills as was outlined, there's absolutely no reason to blow 20% of your budget on the OS.  Linux and other OSes are free and will give you more budget to spend on hardware and can give you more of a hands-on learning opportunity.
 

SuperManny

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Jul 20, 2005
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Washington, DC
Jack Clarks CFP said:
My son Zach just turned 16 and I'm thinking that it would be a cool father/son project to build a desktop together. My ulterior motive is to have him learn a practical skill set that at worst will make him more self-sufficient, perhaps develop into a hobby that he's passionate about, and potentially wake him up to some potential career paths down the road.
 
I'd appreciate any input you all might have on doing this. Bear in mind that Zach has essentially no experience with hardware (or anything beyond playing games for that matter) and, while I've swapped out the occasional drive, PSU, or video card, I've never built a box from scratch before. I'd love to hear if you all think this is a good idea, or if we might be biting off more than we can chew.
 
Assuming the former, I'd also appreciate anything you can share regarding tools, parts lists, etc. What kinds of things would make the project easier that a novice might not think about? I'm planning on building a light gaming rig with an initial budget of around $500 (give or take) with the thought of upgrading it together over time - using gifts or earnings to add RAM or upgrade the CPU or video card, for example. What can we wait on and what should we splurge on initially?  I've been to pcpartpicker.com, but I don't know enough about brand quality or compatibility issues to make intelligent choices so any help there would be awesome. Lastly Zach is 16, so boxes/keyboards that light up or dispense Mountain Dew would be cool/gnarly/rad/whatever kids say nowadays :)
 
Thanks again, guys. Forums like this are why I love SoSH.
 
I just built my first PC this month and it's pretty straightforward. I found this NewEgg video helpful although there might be better ones out there.  
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIF43-0mDk4
 

Flunky

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Jack Clarks CFP said:
My son Zach just turned 16 and I'm thinking that it would be a cool father/son project to build a desktop together. My ulterior motive is to have him learn a practical skill set that at worst will make him more self-sufficient, perhaps develop into a hobby that he's passionate about, and potentially wake him up to some potential career paths down the road.
 
I'd appreciate any input you all might have on doing this. Bear in mind that Zach has essentially no experience with hardware (or anything beyond playing games for that matter) and, while I've swapped out the occasional drive, PSU, or video card, I've never built a box from scratch before. I'd love to hear if you all think this is a good idea, or if we might be biting off more than we can chew.
 
Assuming the former, I'd also appreciate anything you can share regarding tools, parts lists, etc. What kinds of things would make the project easier that a novice might not think about? I'm planning on building a light gaming rig with an initial budget of around $500 (give or take) with the thought of upgrading it together over time - using gifts or earnings to add RAM or upgrade the CPU or video card, for example. What can we wait on and what should we splurge on initially?  I've been to pcpartpicker.com, but I don't know enough about brand quality or compatibility issues to make intelligent choices so any help there would be awesome. Lastly Zach is 16, so boxes/keyboards that light up or dispense Mountain Dew would be cool/gnarly/rad/whatever kids say nowadays :)
 
Thanks again, guys. Forums like this are why I love SoSH.
 
http://www.reddit.com/r/PCMasterRace/wiki/builds
 
scroll to Next-Gen Crusher
 
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/FRNvCJ
 
here's the Exterminator
 
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/yspYt6
 
 
there is also a build a pc subreddit
 
http://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc
 

Couperin47

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Flunky said:
 
http://www.reddit.com/r/PCMasterRace/wiki/builds
 
scroll to Next-Gen Crusher
 
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/FRNvCJ
 
here's the Exterminator
 
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/yspYt6
 
 
there is also a build a pc subreddit
 
http://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc
 
Sorry but these reddit recommendations all revolve around the use of AMD cpus, whatever agenda they are pushing is hillariously misguided.. Also parts picker is a decent site, but VERY NCIX biased which may make sense if you live in Canada, otherwise neither their prices or selection are very inspiring....one should recall that all such sites are either backed by specific advertisers, or have an axe to grind....
If you have read this thread, the point is that, intelligently purchased over several weeks, and utilizing sales and, yes, ugh....rebates...one can always save several hundred dollars off most builds because that's just how computer components are marketed these days.
 

SuperManny

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Couperin47 said:
 
Sorry but these reddit recommendations all revolve around the use of AMD cpus, whatever agenda they are pushing is hillariously misguided.. Also parts picker is a decent site, but VERY NCIX biased which may make sense if you live in Canada, otherwise neither their prices or selection are very inspiring....one should recall that all such sites are either backed by specific advertisers, or have an axe to grind....
If you have read this thread, the point is that, intelligently purchased over several weeks, and utilizing sales and, yes, ugh....rebates...one can always save several hundred dollars off most builds because that's just how computer components are marketed these days.
 
reddit build a pc sales is a great resource for sales
 

Flunky

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That subreddit has nothing against Intel. The concept is building a PC that performs better than an Xbox One or PS4 for as little money as possible. AMD chips happen to be less expensive than Intel chips. No one here or there denies that Intel chips perform better overall. The main problem with this concept is future proofing. It is recommended at a hobbyist site however, so there is probably some glossing over the $500 price tag going on.
 
But hey, by all means, let's follow the SoSH-endorsed pathway that suggests you use on-board video.
 

Couperin47

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The truth is, especially considering the fact that box makers get an OS for virtually nothing, and their component prices are lower, no one can build a $500 box equal to the best boxes to be found on sale, as I regularly point out in the Tech bargain thread. In just the past 2 weeks there have been Acer and other boxes built around decent i5 quad cpus that you simply cannot build for the sub $500 prices offered. You take compromises in the form of acceptable but lower quality power supplies, motherboards restricted by lack of ability to expand and cheaper less versatile chipsets. This mostly translates to the inability to add much except a low end upgrade video card that does not require extra direct power connection.
 
Building a box starts to make sense both as to quality and and price when you aim for a 'bargain but quality' build starting around $750 at least. In this case you can wind up with quality and flexibility that can keep the box relevant for 5 years when one sees the pace of Intel cpu progress over the last half decade
 

Jack Clarks CFP

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Guys, thanks for all the input. Am I to understand from the conversation that it's unrealistic to build a box for $500 that's truly upgradable? If so, are the places to splurge so we can upgrade primarily the mobo and the chipset?
 

Couperin47

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Jack Clarks CFP said:
Guys, thanks for all the input. Am I to understand from the conversation that it's unrealistic to build a box for $500 that's truly upgradable? If so, are the places to splurge so we can upgrade primarily the mobo and the chipset?
 
Here are the economic basics:
 
On sale you can get a credible midtower case for $25/30 on sale.
A modern H97 or Z97 motherboard will run you at least $80, these will use any current i5 cpu which is your best 'bang for the buck'
The cheapest i5 Quad cpu will run you $185 unless you can drive to a Microcenter where, on sale, you can save an extra $20.
The cheapest decent power supply will run you around $30 on sale, but spending $20 more will get you a supply which can later power a serious gamer video card.
8 Gig of DDR3 1600 ram will run, on the very best sales today, around $55.
Budget $20 for a keyboard and mouse.
A DVD burner, handy to have, there's something on sale at Newegg every week for $14.
Starting with just a HD, instead of the SSD which provides modern performance, will run you a minimum of $50 (a bad buy when $80 can get you a 72000 rpm 3 Tb drive)
 
You're already at $450, you've made some bad choices in terms of value and being able to upgrade. You have no monitor and no OS. Upgrading the cpu virtually never makes any sense because, in every case, the next generation of cpu that provides a meaningful improvement always uses a newer incompatible socket...and there is no real market for used cpus or motherboards+cpu. Generally you're better off selling the whole box locally via Craigslist if it's in decent shape and not hopelessly obsolete.
 
And note the cost of the Acer box I just listed in the Tech Bargain thread....
 

SumnerH

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Jack Clarks CFP said:
Guys, thanks for all the input. Am I to understand from the conversation that it's unrealistic to build a box for $500 that's truly upgradable? If so, are the places to splurge so we can upgrade primarily the mobo and the chipset?
 
If you already have a monitor, you can easily build an upgradable box for that price as long as you're not expecting it to be too much out of the gate--plan it as a learning/hobby thing for the first couple of months but one that will grow into a nice machine in the not too distant future.  Put it together without a graphics card (integrated CPU graphics) and plan on adding that in a couple of months (the promise of it becoming a capable gaming rid gives the kid an incentive to save his money).  Get just a small SSD to run everything off of up front, add a larger hard drive later on.  Spend an extra few bucks on the power supply now rather than getting a terrible one up front and having to replace it later.  Run Linux now, get Windows later.  Don't put in an optical (DVD/CD/BluRay) drive at first.  
 
Also, ask around and see if anyone's ditching a machine that has an old graphics card that's not so fast but better than nothing in the interim, or plunder the hard drive from an old computer you're discarding, or whatever.  Stopgap stuff.
 
Essentially plan on a slightly dopey machine at first that will quickly become tricked out with a couple of upgrades.  Something like:
 
CPU: Intel Core i5-4460 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($178.98 @ OutletPC) 
Motherboard: ASRock H97M PRO4 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($79.89 @ OutletPC) 
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($64.99 @ Amazon) 
Storage: Crucial MX100 128GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($67.00 @ Amazon) 
Case: Corsair 200R ATX Mid Tower Case  ($49.99 @ Amazon) 
Power Supply: Corsair CX 600W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($59.88 @ OutletPC) 
Total: $500.73
 
Over the next couple of months you get Windows, an MSI AMD Radeon HD 7770, and a 1TB drive (combined total $250 or a bit less) and you have a pretty nice machine going--or save a few more pennies for a better graphics card and bigger disk.
 
If you have to squeeze a monitor into the budget it gets a harder.
 

Couperin47

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SumnerH said:
 
If you already have a monitor, you can easily build an upgradable box for that price as long as you're not expecting it to be too much out of the gate--plan it as a learning/hobby thing for the first couple of months but one that will grow into a nice machine in the not too distant future.  Put it together without a graphics card (integrated CPU graphics) and plan on adding that in a couple of months (the promise of it becoming a capable gaming rid gives the kid an incentive to save his money).  Get just a small SSD to run everything off of up front, add a larger hard drive later on.  Spend an extra few bucks on the power supply now rather than getting a terrible one up front and having to replace it later.  Run Linux now, get Windows later.  Don't put in an optical (DVD/CD/BluRay) drive at first.  
 
Also, ask around and see if anyone's ditching a machine that has an old graphics card that's not so fast but better than nothing in the interim, or plunder the hard drive from an old computer you're discarding, or whatever.  Stopgap stuff.
 
Essentially plan on a slightly dopey machine at first that will quickly become tricked out with a couple of upgrades.  Something like:
 
CPU: Intel Core i5-4460 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($178.98 @ OutletPC) 
Motherboard: ASRock H97M PRO4 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($79.89 @ OutletPC) 
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($64.99 @ Amazon) 
Storage: Crucial MX100 128GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($67.00 @ Amazon) 
Case: Corsair 200R ATX Mid Tower Case  ($49.99 @ Amazon) 
Power Supply: Corsair CX 600W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply  ($59.88 @ OutletPC) 
Total: $500.73
 
Over the next couple of months you get Windows, an MSI AMD Radeon HD 7770, and a 1TB drive (combined total $250 or a bit less) and you have a pretty nice machine going--or save a few more pennies for a better graphics card and bigger disk.
 
If you have to squeeze a monitor into the budget it gets a harder.
 
I just built using this motherboard, it's VERY nice and I fully endorse it as the basis for a good build. Will provide very flexible video and audio output compared with other H97 offerings.
 
If you go this route it's a sensible basis.
 

Jack Clarks CFP

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I just saw this case:

Corsair Carbide Series SPEC-01 RED LED Black ATX Mid Tower Gaming Computer Case
It's the same price as the 200R, but has more curb appeal to a 16 yo.  Is this a good alternative or would I be giving up something major?
 

Couperin47

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Jack Clarks CFP said:
I just saw this case:
Corsair Carbide Series SPEC-01 RED LED Black ATX Mid Tower Gaming Computer Case
It's the same price as the 200R, but has more curb appeal to a 16 yo.  Is this a good alternative or would I be giving up something major?
 
You have to include a link so we can see exactly what you're buying and the price....
 

Couperin47

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SoSH Member
That case is decent, it's 2 major defects:
 
1. it only comes with 1 fan, 2 are generally considered minimal for decent ventilation....the  SPEC-02 cures that issue.
2. like many Corsair cases, it only has 1 front panel USB 3.0 port, even though it's internal connector is to the standard 2 port socket on any modern motherboard, I find this annoyingly eccentric, depriving you of the 2nd 3.0 port for no good reason at all.
 
By comparison I just used this case:
 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129204
 
3 fans, fan speed controllers, full USB 3.0 ports, equal or better filters built in, and was on sale for even less twice in last month.
 

Jack Clarks CFP

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So it's build time! Zach and I decided on the following components (Essentially SumnerH's build above);
 
CPU: Intel Core i5-4460 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor
Mobo: ASRock H97M PRO4 Micro ATX LGA1150 Motherboard
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory
Storage: Crucial MX100 128GB 2.5" Solid State Drive
Case: Corsair SPEC-02 ATX Mid Tower Case
PSU: Corsair CX 600W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply
OS: Microsoft Windows 8.1 (OEM) (64-bit)
 
The differences are the case and getting the OS up front. Total cost worked out to $573 after rebates which includes $90 on the OS; I'm pretty happy with that. I also intend to install an old video card I have on hand - an Nvidia GeForce 8400 GS - just for shits and giggles.
 
We just started the build, and I already have a question for you all. I seated the CPU on the mobo, but it seems like it took an inordinate amount of force to close the cover. The chip is definitely oriented properly. I looked online and saw it mentioned that it's normal to take some force to close it, so I continued with the external build. After installing the RAM and the Video card, I hooked up the PSU to benchmark it. Problem: When shorting the power button pins, the fans on the heat sink and the video cards turn maybe a quarter turn and turn back off. I removed the video card and tried again; same result. My thought is going back to the CPU; perhaps it isn't in fact seated properly? Any input is appreciated, as we're kind of stuck right now. Thanks!
 

Couperin47

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Is this thread cursed ? You realize this is the exact same issue Yaz had during his build....sigh. Having just built using this exact board I find your report of using inordinate force to mount the cpu quite worrisome, I had no such experience... otherwise. Are you trying this with the motherboard mounted in the case or outside ? Assuming the cpu is mounted correctly it's acting like a cpu would if no heatsink/fan is connected: it overheats instantly and the internal crowbar circuitry kills power to protect it. That would mean the hs/fan (I'm assuming the stock Intel one) is not properly mounted and making good thermal contact. Note that if you unmount/remount more than 2 or 3 times, the gray thermal compound becomes useless and you'll need to clean that off and replace with something better like Arctic Silver 5.
 
This tutorial has excellent pix of the entire process and how the properly mounted hs/fan should look from the underside of the motherboard:
 
http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=2677
 

Jack Clarks CFP

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Nov 2, 2005
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Thanks for the help, Couper. I am doing an external build. And I am an idiot for not hooking up the 8 pin cpu connector. That's my noob showing. I still remain concerned about the force required to lock down the CPU, and I'm also wondering if I might be better off getting some Arctic Silver 5 straight off? I only removed the heat sink the once, but the thermal compound is looking awful thin.
 

Couperin47

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OK, without the added current from the cpu connection, it can't draw enough to stay on so what you saw was normal. The compound Intel uses has the consistency of a light clay which gives it long shelf life and can be preapplied and not particularly dry out and these days they don't even cover it with plastic. It's 2nd rate as a compound. Switching to Arctic Silver is a big improvement and the small syringe (which is good for at least 8-10 applications) runs between $6-9.  Removal of the Intel stuff is best accomplished in 2 stages: spray some WD40 or similar onto a rag, it will dissolve the compound from the sink and the cpu, then use a rag soaked in preferably 91% isopropyl alcohol to remove the WD40 residue.  A large rice grain size amount of the AS5 on the center of the heatsink and a 90 degree twist both directions before you lock it down and you're done.
 
btw thin is exactly what you want, a visible full film of compound is almost always too much: under a microscope both cpu heat spreader & hs both look like the rocky mountains what we want is to fill in the valleys not recreate an ice age sheet above them.
 

SumnerH

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Unless you're overclocking or packing a bunch of machines into a small poorly ventilated space or doing something else weird, there's no reason to worry about switching the thermal compound unless it's dry and flaky. Arctic Silver and the like are technically much better, but it's one of those things where it's purely theoretical for 95%+ of users.
 

Jack Clarks CFP

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Bay Area, CA
Problem solved, and the build is complete other than some cable management and installing the OS. The build took longer than I thought and was not without some angst, but Zach and I enjoyed it a lot. Thank you so much for all your help; it really made it way less stressful attempting this build knowing I had backup to keep me from looking like a total idiot in front of my son - again :)
 
Cheers all!
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Sep 9, 2008
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Glad I found this thread.  Just getting started, and like others am planning to do a computer build with my daughter as a project, and so don't mind spending a bit extra for the science project aspect.
 
I still have a ton of research, but before I get started, I guess the first question is to understand the SSD.  Are people just using the 128 GGBs for the OS, and what are you using for additional storage?   More importantly, if I wanted to go the route of a small SSD and a larger internal HD, what complexities does this add to the build and for day to day use?
 

jayhoz

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Jul 19, 2005
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That is my setup. Small SSD for the OS and large normal drive for everything else. It adds no complexity to the build. My setup is a HTPC with two 3TB WD Red drives in a flexraid setup with the ability to add up to 4 more drives if need be. Way overkill for a normal PC.
 

kelpapa

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Feb 15, 2010
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My wife has a ton of pictures/videos so I went with an SSD for the OS and a 3 TB HDD. It's more space than I need, but I got a pretty good deal on it. It wasn't tough, but I have to consistently remind my wife to save stuff to the HDD instead of the SSD.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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How complicated is it when downloading the OS (windows 7 in my case) to get it to the SSD and not the HD?
 

Couperin47

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DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
How complicated is it when downloading the OS (windows 7 in my case) to get it to the SSD and not the HD?
 
Not at all: most modern motherboards have 6 Sata 3 connections, normally numbered 0 thru 5, it makes it a bit easier and less confusing if you attach the drive you want to be the boot drive to the 0 port, but in any event the OS during install will show you the available drives it sees, ask if you want to format them and allow you to install the OS onto which ever drive you pick.
 
and using a 128 or 240-256 SSD as boot drive and mechanical hard drives for mass storage is how almost all desktops are configured these days.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Thanks very much.  One more question -- we're not likely to do any gaming, so I'm unlikely ever to want to add a video card, but we like nice images to view pictures and stuff.  Will a CPU like the i5-4460 and 8 GB ram be enough, or is there a reasonable cost CPU/memory upgrade that a person not intending to get a graphics card should consider?
 

Couperin47

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DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
Thanks very much.  One more question -- we're not likely to do any gaming, so I'm unlikely ever to want to add a video card, but we like nice images to view pictures and stuff.  Will a CPU like the i5-4460 and 8 GB ram be enough, or is there a reasonable cost CPU/memory upgrade that a person not intending to get a graphics card should consider?
 
If gaming is not on the menu, an i5-4460 can drive 2 or even 3 modern monitors (up thru normal 24" or 27" models, the Intel graphics start to look inadequate only on very high definition 30" and above monitors...), that depends on what the motherboard supports, I strongly suggest a mb like the ASrock used in the build above which offers both DVI and HDMI video outputs. The quality of the visuals will be dependent on the quality of your monitors and 8 Gb of ram is the sweet spot: it runs everything much faster than 4 Gb on Win 7 or 8 and while even more is nice, it's not really necessary unless you do specialized work like high end graphic or video editing where it's nice to be able to hold very large files or images all in memory while you work on them (ie using Photoshop with very large images).
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Ok, great -- i5-4460 and ASrock as the foundation, with a 128 GB SSD and a 1 TB HD, and it looks like I'm in business.  Already have monitor, keyboard and mouse, and I get a win7 license from work, so I think that only really leaves case and power supply, and some extra cooling (I live in Arizona and it gets hot in the summer).
 
Do I need to be picky about a wireless adapter with this set up, or do I just buy something that's cheap?
 

Couperin47

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DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
Ok, great -- i5-4460 and ASrock as the foundation, with a 128 GB SSD and a 1 TB HD, and it looks like I'm in business.  Already have monitor, keyboard and mouse, and I get a win7 license from work, so I think that only really leaves case and power supply, and some extra cooling (I live in Arizona and it gets hot in the summer).
 
Do I need to be picky about a wireless adapter with this set up, or do I just buy something that's cheap?
 
Some thoughts: 2 Tb is the current sweet spot in hard drives, typically a 1 Tb (I much prefer WD or Toshiba these days) will run $59 and $75-79 will get you a 2 Tb.  Read thru this thread and the Tech bargain thread and stick to the quality SSD brands, the sales these days are endless. Also consider splurging a big $14/15 for a DVD burner, Newegg has one on sale every week, it makes OS and other HD installs much easier...otherwise wtf do you do with that disc ? Consider the Antec GX500 case, been on sale twice in past 3 weeks at Newegg, once for $25, once for $30 and includes 3 fans and fan controllers. The stock Intel heatsink/fan is fine, even in Arizona, if your case has enough ventilation: The Antec has 3 ..all exhaust, if you don't set the AC for freeze, you might want to add an intake fan.
 
Wireless adapters, as we discussed elsewhere, performance is mostly dependent on placement and orientation of the antenna, most cards are decent.
 

jayhoz

Ronald Bartel
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Jul 19, 2005
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DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
How complicated is it when downloading the OS (windows 7 in my case) to get it to the SSD and not the HD?
Not that you need to, but you can just leave the sata cable to the HDD unplugged when installing the OS. That will ensure it gets installed on the SSD.
 

Gdiguy

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Jul 15, 2005
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jayhoz said:
Not that you need to, but you can just leave the sata cable to the HDD unplugged when installing the OS. That will ensure it gets installed on the SSD.
 
.. of course, then you need to make sure that the SSD is listed first in the boot order when you plug it back in later on :)
 
(not that I've experienced this before, of course)
 

Couperin47

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Also, learn how to get into the BIOS of the motherboard and make sure the BIOS is set to use AHCI, NOT IDE interface to the drives before you install the OS. Other tips: grab your drivers and utils from the ASrock site, the disc that comes with the motherboard is always out of date on these, also so is the Bios already installed. ASrock now makes it very easy to upgrade the Bios, simply download the latest, put the file on a disc or memory stick and inside the Bios there is an upgrade option that will search everything connected to the mb, find that file and offer to upgrade...couldn't be easier.
 

teddykgb

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Jul 16, 2005
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I want to reinforce a point made earlier-- if you're doing this for learning you're missing an opportunity if you don't install Linux on these machines. It's an entirely separate challenge but will teach some computer skills that we all thought were going to expire that haven't managed to this far. I'm not recommending something as simple as windows like Ubuntu but I may have learned as much about computers troubleshooting xwindows on my Gentoo build years ago as anything I've ever done
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Couper or anyone -- can you recommend a smaller form case than the mid-size tower.  Our last computer was an all in one, and the space we have for it is limited.  I'd like to try to find a case that perhaps can sit on the desktop, or otherwise fit in a smaller spot under the table.  This will be my first build and I'm a novice, so a case that makes it difficult to get in there and do everything might be more problem than it solves, but the primary stuff in the box will be the asrock motherboard, two 3.5 drives, the power supply, and an optical drive (although I could go external for that).  Any way to get the form size down, still have a reasonably easy build, and have adequate cooling?
 

jayhoz

Ronald Bartel
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Jul 19, 2005
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I am no expert, but i used this case for my build and it is great.  Small, but with room to grow.  Easy enough to work in. Silent.
 
Edit - You'd have to go external with your optical drive though.
 
Fractal Design Node 304
 
 

Nick Kaufman

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DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
Couper or anyone -- can you recommend a smaller form case than the mid-size tower.  Our last computer was an all in one, and the space we have for it is limited.  I'd like to try to find a case that perhaps can sit on the desktop, or otherwise fit in a smaller spot under the table.  This will be my first build and I'm a novice, so a case that makes it difficult to get in there and do everything might be more problem than it solves, but the primary stuff in the box will be the asrock motherboard, two 3.5 drives, the power supply, and an optical drive (although I could go external for that).  Any way to get the form size down, still have a reasonably easy build, and have adequate cooling?
A smaller case than a mid tower will probably need a micro-atx board. Just so you know.
 
My recent build was done using this case which I found stylish and elegant.
 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147209&cm_re=Rosewill_Legacy_U3-B-_-11-147-209-_-Product
 
All the same, I ve done 3 builds so far and every time I encountered murphy's law and with a smaller case, you re going to need a bit more patience to fit everything in. It's a good thing you don't need a video card because that gives you more space to work with, but make sure your cooler fits.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
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That looks pretty cool.  Just a real dummy question -- it looks like there are two usb ports on the front.  Is that enough?  How is everything else like the keyboard and the mouse and the external drive attached?
 

jayhoz

Ronald Bartel
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Jul 19, 2005
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Your mobo will supply all those ports and they will be on the back.  Here are the ports on the board I used.
 
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
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Sep 9, 2008
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AZ
Nick Kaufman said:
A smaller case than a mid tower will probably need a micro-atx board. Just so you know.
 
My recent build was done using this case which I found stylish and elegant.
 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147209&cm_re=Rosewill_Legacy_U3-B-_-11-147-209-_-Product
 
All the same, I ve done 3 builds so far and every time I encountered murphy's law and with a smaller case, you re going to need a bit more patience to fit everything in. It's a good thing you don't need a video card because that gives you more space to work with, but make sure your cooler fits.
 
Oh, ok.  So, the Asrock that people are discussing above is too large for this kind of case then?  
 
jayhoz, what mb is that?  Any recommendations for a good motherboard for the i5 chip?  Is there enough room for the fan that sits above the cpu in these kind of cases?
 
This is the one that partspicker would suggest:  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157526&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=
 

jayhoz

Ronald Bartel
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Jul 19, 2005
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