Cora in line for major suspension?

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dhappy42

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Guess I’m in the minority — unless what happened in Boston on Cora’s watch is worse than we’ve heard, I’d gladly welcome him back after a suspension of not more than one year, with someone currently on staff handling interim managerial duties. (If Cora’s suspension extends into the 2021 season, however, then I agree the Sox need to move on.)

Stealing signs is gamesmanship. Cora went too far and should be punished; he doesn’t need to me made a pariah. It’s a lot different than betting on games, or even PEDs (though I think the moral outrage over PED use is overblown too).
I'd go further than that. Unless what happened in Boston on Cora's watch is worse than we've heard, he shouldn't be suspended at all. It makes no sense to suspend a bench coach, but not players, who were not only participants and the main beneficiaries, but also the ones who came up with the garbage can thumping scheme. Absent that, using the replay room to steal signs seems to be an "everybody does it" offense. If Cora hadn't gone on to become Boston's manager, he'd probably get minor mention in Manfred's report.
 

DeadlySplitter

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Guess I’m in the minority — unless what happened in Boston on Cora’s watch is worse than we’ve heard, I’d gladly welcome him back after a suspension of not more than one year, with someone currently on staff handling interim managerial duties. (If Cora’s suspension extends into the 2021 season, however, then I agree the Sox need to move on.)

Stealing signs is gamesmanship. Cora went too far and should be punished; he doesn’t need to me made a pariah. It’s a lot different than betting on games, or even PEDs (though I think the moral outrage over PED use is overblown too).
overall I agree with you, but Manfred has decided for the Sox basically with Luhnow & Hinch heavily suspended with not even active roles in the scandal - and then getting fired by their owner. the Red Sox will be forced to save face.
 

dhappy42

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Shocking that the national media downplays any Yankees involvement. Truly shocking.
Not just the media, Manfred's report too. It includes the 2017 pre-Cora Red Sox sign stealing incident, but mentions the MFY sign-stealing only parenthetically.
 

lexrageorge

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I'd go further than that. Unless what happened in Boston on Cora's watch is worse than we've heard, he shouldn't be suspended at all. It makes no sense to suspend a bench coach, but not players, who were not only participants and the main beneficiaries, but also the ones who came up with the garbage can thumping scheme. Absent that, using the replay room to steal signs seems to be an "everybody does it" offense. If Cora hadn't gone on to become Boston's manager, he'd probably get minor mention in Manfred's report.
The report implies Cora enthusiastically embraced the idea and was directly involved in the scheme. He was not just a lackey bench coach caught up in something outside his control.
 

Plympton91

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What part of Cora helped put together the scheme did you miss
I think you may not be up to speed on what Manfred actually found. He suspended Hinch as captain of the ship even though he was against the video use and tried at times to disable it and stop it. Cora was more actively involved.

Cora seems to have been heavily involved and while he might have been Hinch's subordinate he was in management. He's screwed. This is not going to be a half-season ban.
I saw what folks posted in the thread, which seems what you’re referencing. Two thoughts:


1. I’m calling BS on Hinch, you’re the manager, you want it stopped, it stops. Benching, demotion, kangaroo court fines. If it didn’t stop, his pleadings were for show, not effect.

2. Relatedly, the Astros have every incentive to make it seem like Cora was the ringleader. He’s not with them anymore. We’ll see what Cora says under the “tell the truth or else” edict. Then, baring actual evidence, I’ll take the average of the two stories.

And, as I said, any suspension longer than 2 months would be intolerable to me from a management standpoint. You have less chance to get someone good as temp, and if things were actually going well with the new guy, I’d be hesitant to switch back.
 

DeadlySplitter

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and yeah it's hilarious the Yankees are being made out as victims... they did it too in some capacity with Beltran around, you know they did.
 

YTF

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Here's a question: If the Sox get hammered in draft picks like the Astros, or worse, does Chaim make a break and quit? Sucks to be handicapped so badly in your first major market role.
I've a question on the speculation of The Sox possibly losing draft picks pending the 2018 investigation. Is this current investigation wider than just The Red Sox? Were there suspicions/accusations against other teams as well? This is not an "everybody does it" argument, I'm just wondering what the scope of the current investigation is. It's a different situation involving the same topic and if the conclusions recognize a wider issue that is not as cut and dry as what was being done in Houston then perhaps the loss of draft picks might not be in play.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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and yeah it's hilarious the Yankees are being made out as victims... they did it too in some capacity with Beltran around, you know they did.
Logan Morrison said the Yankees and Dodgers did it too. But didn't provide a timeline.
 

mauidano

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Safe to say that Alex Cora won't be a part of the Red Sox Winter Weekend coming up?
 

Spud

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The actual report sets out Manfred's reasoning pretty clearly. After the Sox got caught using the Apple watches in 2017, MLB sent out a notice to all teams, making clear that under its Regulations, electronic equipment cannot be used "for the purpose of stealing signs or conveying information designed to give a Club an advantage." Manfred evidently also issued a memorandum to all clubs on the same day of his statement regarding the Sox, reiterating the rules regarding "the use of electronic equipment to steal signs" and that the General Manager and Field Manager would be held accountable for any violations.

The next thing to come out was a memo from Joe Torre, which made clear, once again, that MLB Regulations prohibit the use of electronic equipment "for the purpose of stealing signs".

If the Sox were using electronic equipment (the replay feed) in 2018 to for the purpose of stealing signs (which appears to be the case), then I'm not sure that the means of transmitting the stolen information to players is going to make all that much difference to Manfred when it comes time to reckon with Cora and the Sox.

Interesting question is whether Dave D. gets dinged based on Manfred's decree that general managers and field managers were responsible for policing this stuff.
 

Yaz4Ever

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Wonder if this is partly behind the slow offseason for the Sox. Perhaps they saw this coming and wanted to wait for the fallout (and see if they're losing draft picks) before making any deals?

edit: and my vote to replace Cora would be Varitek, who I wanted when they hired Cora in the first place, but that's due to my unabashed love for the guy. A more seasoned guy like RR would likely be the smarter choice with Tek as bench coach for a year or two first.
 

dhappy42

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The report implies Cora enthusiastically embraced the idea and was directly involved in the scheme. He was not just a lackey bench coach caught up in something outside his control.
"Implies" is exactly right. And as Plympton91 says, the Astros have every incentive to make Cora look like the ringleader. Did any other coaches or players "enthusiastically embrace the idea?" Clearly many players did. I'm not saying Cora wasn't involved. I'm saying it makes no sense to penalize a bench coach if you're not penalizing players too. And it makes no sense to penalize the Red Sox because Cora participated in electronic sign stealing as the Astro's bench coach. If the Red Sox broke the rules after the 2017 warnings, then that's another story.

Re the 2017 sign-stealing by the Red Sox and Yankees, were Gary DiSarcina and Rob Thomson penalized? Of course not.
 

Gdiguy

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I saw what folks posted in the thread, which seems what you’re referencing. Two thoughts:


1. I’m calling BS on Hinch, you’re the manager, you want it stopped, it stops. Benching, demotion, kangaroo court fines. If it didn’t stop, his pleadings were for show, not effect.

2. Relatedly, the Astros have every incentive to make it seem like Cora was the ringleader. He’s not with them anymore. We’ll see what Cora says under the “tell the truth or else” edict. Then, baring actual evidence, I’ll take the average of the two stories.

And, as I said, any suspension longer than 2 months would be intolerable to me from a management standpoint. You have less chance to get someone good as temp, and if things were actually going well with the new guy, I’d be hesitant to switch back.
I mean, MLB (and the Astros ownership) seem to agree with you on #1 - they seem to accepted that he wasn't really a part of it, and yet still gave him one of the most severe punishments an MLB manager has ever had because he's the manager, it doesn't matter if he disapproved of it or not if he didn't stop it.
 

jon abbey

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Just for the record, this is what actually happened with NY and BOS in 2017:

"On Sept. 15, 2017, Major League Baseball fined the Boston Red Sox an undisclosed amount for using Apple Watches to convey signs stolen from the Yankees.

MLB also fined the Yankees a lesser amount, leading to a common misconception that both teams engaged in espionage at that time.

At the time, the league announced that the Yankees had "violated a rule governing the use of a dugout phone." What MLB didn't say was that no one had accused the Yankees of cheating.

Their previously unreported actual offense, according to major league sources?

A member of the team, likely then-pitching coach Larry Rothschild, used the dugout phone to call replay coordinator Brett Weber and ask if a particular pitch was a ball or a strike. This did not even occur in 2017, but in a prior season. Weber openly admitted this to the league during its investigation. That's it. Technically a violation, but hardly on the same level as an Apple Watch scheme.

The Red Sox also accused the Yankees of using a YES Network camera to steal signs, but MLB found that those claims had no merit."


So that's why no one is mentioning NY in connection to this, because they basically didn't do anything wrong, at least that we know about as of now.
 

dhappy42

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I've a question on the speculation of The Sox possibly losing draft picks pending the 2018 investigation. Is this current investigation wider than just The Red Sox? Were there suspicions/accusations against other teams as well? This is not an "everybody does it" argument, I'm just wondering what the scope of the current investigation is. It's a different situation involving the same topic and if the conclusions recognize a wider issue that is not as cut and dry as what was being done in Houston then perhaps the loss of draft picks might not be in play.
Will Middlebrooks made a wisecrack on Twitter about how nobody investigates teams that lose 95 games, but they use replay rooms to steal signs too.

This also isn't an "everybody does it so it's okay" argument, but if it's true that every team does it to one degree or another, then investigating only one or two of them based on who talks Rosenthal and Dellitch is scapegoating and damage control, not seriously addressing the problem.
 

snowmanny

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Regarding the idea that you fire Cora if he's suspended for a year, I'd say no unless it's out of moral outrage. The NFL is a different sport, but I'd argue the head coach is more important in game-planning and culture building, and Sean Payton returned without a hitch. I'd keep Cora, I think he's generally a good fit for the team and the market.

Unless somebody thinks they should bring back John Farrell, since he's the guy who really got screwed in this whole scheme.
 

lexrageorge

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"Implies" is exactly right. And as Plympton91 says, the Astros have every incentive to make Cora look like the ringleader. Did any other coaches or players "enthusiastically embrace the idea?" Clearly many players did. I'm not saying Cora wasn't involved. I'm saying it makes no sense to penalize a bench coach if you're not penalizing players too. And it makes no sense to penalize the Red Sox because Cora participated in electronic sign stealing as the Astro's bench coach. If the Red Sox broke the rules after the 2017 warnings, then that's another story.

Re the 2017 sign-stealing by the Red Sox and Yankees, were Gary DiSarcina and Rob Thomson penalized? Of course not.
You're missing some key context.

A bench coach is part of the team's management chain. If a bench coach is involved in a cheating scheme, he should indeed be punished.

The Sox are not getting punished because of what Cora did in Houston. They are getting punished because of what happened in their clubhouse in 2018, and they are repeat offenders. Even if that wasn't the case, MLB is not going to take into account that Cora is no longer with Houston when meting out punishment; nor should it. The Sox hired him, and hired his dirty laundry with it.
 

BaseballJones

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You're missing some key context.

A bench coach is part of the team's management chain. If a bench coach is involved in a cheating scheme, he should indeed be punished.

The Sox are not getting punished because of what Cora did in Houston. They are getting punished because of what happened in their clubhouse in 2018, and they are repeat offenders. Even if that wasn't the case, MLB is not going to take into account that Cora is no longer with Houston when meting out punishment; nor should it. The Sox hired him, and hired his dirty laundry with it.
I have no problem with your bolded comment when it comes to punishment for CORA. But the penalties for the RED SOX (draft picks, say) should NOT take into account what Cora did in Houston. That would be grossly unfair.
 

YTF

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Will Middlebrooks made a wisecrack on Twitter about how nobody investigates teams that lose 95 games, but they use replay rooms to steal signs too.

This also isn't an "everybody does it so it's okay" argument, but if it's true that every team does it to one degree or another, then investigating only one or two of them based on who talks Rosenthal and Dellitch is scapegoating and damage control, not seriously addressing the problem.
And I think you're going to see MLB investigate this on it's own merits with a deep dive into what is likely a wide spread situation.
 

jon abbey

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Jen McCaffrey has a new piece up on The Athletic, she seems to know more than has been publicly revealed so far.

"So what does it all mean for the Red Sox?

In short, they should be prepared for similarly harsh treatment by MLB.

In MLB’s report detailing the Astros’ wrongdoing, the Red Sox were mentioned nine times and manager Alex Cora 11 times. Cora, who was bench coach of the Astros at the time of the sign-stealing scheme in 2017, was found by MLB to be at the center of the plan, which used video feed from center field to relay signs to players and staff watching a monitor in the tunnel leading to the dugout, who banged trash cans to alert batters of incoming pitches. MLB chose not to discipline players, instead focusing the penalties on those in positions of authority. According to the report, MLB’s Department of Investigations interviewed 68 witnesses and 23 current and former Astros players, many of whom acknowledge they knew they were breaking the rules.

Meanwhile, the Red Sox and Cora now have to expect similar if not harsher punishment as MLB investigates additional allegations of sign-stealing by the 2018 world champion team managed by Cora. Those allegations were first reported by The Athletic last week."

"The Red Sox, separately, will be treated as a two-time offender. Draft pick revocation and fines are again, probably not a question of if, but of how many and how much."

 

Mystic Merlin

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Jen McCaffrey has a new piece up on The Athletic, she seems to know more than has been publicly revealed so far.

"So what does it all mean for the Red Sox?

In short, they should be prepared for similarly harsh treatment by MLB.

In MLB’s report detailing the Astros’ wrongdoing, the Red Sox were mentioned nine times and manager Alex Cora 11 times. Cora, who was bench coach of the Astros at the time of the sign-stealing scheme in 2017, was found by MLB to be at the center of the plan, which used video feed from center field to relay signs to players and staff watching a monitor in the tunnel leading to the dugout, who banged trash cans to alert batters of incoming pitches. MLB chose not to discipline players, instead focusing the penalties on those in positions of authority. According to the report, MLB’s Department of Investigations interviewed 68 witnesses and 23 current and former Astros players, many of whom acknowledge they knew they were breaking the rules.

Meanwhile, the Red Sox and Cora now have to expect similar if not harsher punishment as MLB investigates additional allegations of sign-stealing by the 2018 world champion team managed by Cora. Those allegations were first reported by The Athletic last week."

"The Red Sox, separately, will be treated as a two-time offender. Draft pick revocation and fines are again, probably not a question of if, but of how many and how much."

I think this is her own assessment of the report and recent Athletic reporting.

She might be right that the punishment will be harsher, but I didn’t take this particular piece as new reporting.
 

YTF

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I would think that the Red Sox would approach Manfred and ask what Cora may be facing based on the Houston incident alone and make a decision as to whether they cut him lose or wait for the other investigation to be completed. If I were a betting man I would put money on Cora being gone in the next 48 hours.
 

dhappy42

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You're missing some key context.

A bench coach is part of the team's management chain. If a bench coach is involved in a cheating scheme, he should indeed be punished.
As should players. And the employees monitoring the live video who relayed the info.

The Sox are not getting punished because of what Cora did in Houston. They are getting punished because of what happened in their clubhouse in 2018, and they are repeat offenders...
The only thing I've seen about Red Sox sign-stealing in 2018 was The Athletic story about relaying of sign sequences by word-of-mouth to the bench for potential baserunners, i.e. not batters. That's cheating too, according to the 2017 Manfred/Torre memo, but not nearly as egregious as the Astros' real-time can-banging and bandaid-buzzer schemes. It's also very much an "everybody does it offense," which again, doesn't make it right, but makes it unjust to single out one or two teams for punishment.
 

uncannymanny

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Suspensions and draft picks aside, seems to me the simplest solution to the electronic sign-stealing problem is to get rid of video replay review rooms. Make managers make review decisions based on what they see on the field and what players say.
There’s no reason to get rid of them because of this (though I agree with your overall “eye test” reasoning). There exist many ways to limit access to electronic systems to specific users and times. In fact, we’ve done it on this very website with some forums.
 

OurF'ingCity

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So that's why no one is mentioning NY in connection to this, because they basically didn't do anything wrong, at least that we know about as of now.
This isn't entirely correct. The Athletic has reported that the Yankees (and probably many other teams) also used the replay room to steal signs prior to 2017:

As far back as 2015, the Yankees used the video replay room to learn other teams’ sign sequences, multiple sources told The Athletic. Other teams likely were doing the same. Sources said the Red Sox began doing it no later than 2016.
---
“I’m just telling you from a broad perspective, living it, it didn’t feel that wrong,” said one player who used the replay-room system with the Yankees as far back as 2015. “It was there for everyone, that’s all.”
---
By 2017, with rules governing electronic sign stealing still lacking the specificity that would come the next season, the Red Sox, Yankees and Astros were all using their replay rooms to help decode sign sequences in some way, sources said. There are indications other teams did so as well. One National League general manager expressed a feeling that it was fair game.
The difference is that there is no evidence as of now that the Yankees continued using the "replay room" tactic after Manfred's 2017 warning, while the Red Sox apparently did. That and the fact that the Red Sox were already dinged for the Apple Watch thing are the only relevant distinctions between the two teams here.
 

genoasalami

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I would think that the Red Sox would approach Manfred and ask what Cora may be facing based on the Houston incident alone and make a decision as to whether they cut him lose or wait for the other investigation to be completed. If I were a betting man I would put money on Cora being gone in the next 48 hours.
He's gonna be suspended for at least a year. He will never manage another game here.
 

jon abbey

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The difference is that there is no evidence as of now that the Yankees continued using the "replay room" tactic after Manfred's 2017 warning, while the Red Sox apparently did. That and the fact that the Red Sox were already dinged for the Apple Watch thing are the only relevant distinctions between the two teams here.
OK, that's fair, I was focused on the earlier ones but you're right.
 

OurF'ingCity

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And I think you're going to see MLB investigate this on it's own merits with a deep dive into what is likely a wide spread situation.
I can't tell if this is sarcasm but I assume this is the LAST thing they'll do because it would likely reveal that many teams were using the replay-room technique, probably even after Manfred's memo like the Red Sox, and I don't think it's a great look for the league to ultimately include, ok, so apparently no one took that memo seriously. At that point punishing the Red Sox would make no sense, other than I guess they are "repeat offenders" due to the Apple Watch thing.

It's the same reason why we never got those ball-inflation numbers from the NFL's league-wide "study" - punishments against a specific team don't make sense when you realize everyone was doing what that team was accused of.

(By the way, this isn't to let the Sox or Cora off the hook - it's the height of arrogance to be lightly chided for one incident, warned that you'll be punished much worse the next time, and then go ahead and do it again anyway.)
 

JCizzle

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"Implies" is exactly right. And as Plympton91 says, the Astros have every incentive to make Cora look like the ringleader. Did any other coaches or players "enthusiastically embrace the idea?" Clearly many players did. I'm not saying Cora wasn't involved. I'm saying it makes no sense to penalize a bench coach if you're not penalizing players too. And it makes no sense to penalize the Red Sox because Cora participated in electronic sign stealing as the Astro's bench coach. If the Red Sox broke the rules after the 2017 warnings, then that's another story.

Re the 2017 sign-stealing by the Red Sox and Yankees, were Gary DiSarcina and Rob Thomson penalized? Of course not.
Exactly. Hinch's argument that he tried to sabotage it twice is possibly the lamest excuse I've ever heard, the guy is a complete weasel.
 

StuckOnYouk

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Logan Morrison was a member of the Yankees organization in 2019, albeit in AAA. Not sure if heard/saw something in 2019 or if this nugget is from years prior. Now that he's publicly outed the Yankees and Dodgers as well, I'd think the commissioner will be talking to see if it's anything new.
 

lexrageorge

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As should players. And the employees monitoring the live video who relayed the info.
Just need to reiterate what was said from Manfred's report:

Alex Cora (Bench Coach). Cora was involved in developing both the banging scheme and utilizing the replay review room to decode and transmit signs. Cora participated in both schemes, and through his active participation, implicitly condoned the players’ conduct. I will withhold determining the appropriate level of discipline for Cora until after the DOI completes its investigation of the allegations that the Red Sox engaged in impermissible electronic sign stealing in 2018 while Cora was the manager.
Cora is not just being accused of a being a low-level bench coach peripherally involved in the scheme. Management will *always* get punished more than the players in situations such as this. Agree or disagree, that's the reality. Manfred doesn't have to pass a logic quiz in order to mete out discipline.

Also, there is the matter that any player suspensions would be appealed by the MLBPA via the CBA process, which would only drag things out and probably bring out laundry that Manfred probably doesn't want aired. Cora is not protected by the CBA.

The only thing I've seen about Red Sox sign-stealing in 2018 was The Athletic story about relaying of sign sequences by word-of-mouth to the bench for potential baserunners, i.e. not batters. That's cheating too, according to the 2017 Manfred/Torre memo, but not nearly as egregious as the Astros' real-time can-banging and bandaid-buzzer schemes. It's also very much an "everybody does it offense," which again, doesn't make it right, but makes it unjust to single out one or two teams for punishment.
Personally, I think the Houston punishments are way out of line. But my opinion matters as much as anyone else's on this forum. I will say given the fact that the Sox were explicitly warned after the Apple Watch fiasco, and the fact that the benefit from the either of the two Sox stealing scandals was likely close to nil, means someone should be punished just for sheer stupidity. If Cora was at all involved in the Sox stealing signals from the video replay, my sympathy for him will be absolutely zero.
 

EpsteinsGorillaSuit

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Will Middlebrooks made a wisecrack on Twitter about how nobody investigates teams that lose 95 games, but they use replay rooms to steal signs too.

This also isn't an "everybody does it so it's okay" argument, but if it's true that every team does it to one degree or another, then investigating only one or two of them based on who talks Rosenthal and Dellitch is scapegoating and damage control, not seriously addressing the problem.
Nope. Investigating the cases where one has significant information and then assessing harsh penalties to the offenders is exactly how to deal with this, particularly in holding the GM and field manager accountable no matter what level of direct knowledge that they have (Hinch's denials are complete BS). As of today, a bunch of losing teams are not going to be pulling shenanigans with their replay rooms.

The only better way to address this would be to levy suspensions on the players involved as well, even those on other teams. I don't think full-season suspensions are appropriate for players given that the average active player career is much shorter than that expected for a GM/manager, but 50 game suspensions would certainly be in order in my opinion. I suspect the real reason Manfred didn't do this is that the MLBPA would throw a fit.
 

Patek's 3 Dingers

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He's gonna be suspended for at least a year. He will never manage another game here.
If he really was the mastermind of the Houston scheme, Cora is bad guy and a person of low character. As MLB fan, I'm disgusted with what he did and do not consider him to be any better than Lance Armstrong. If I was an owner, I would never consider him to manage my team.
 

genoasalami

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If he really was the mastermind of the Houston scheme, Cora is bad guy and a person of low character. As MLB fan, I'm disgusted with what he did and do not consider him to be any better than Lance Armstrong. If I was an owner, I would never consider him to manage my team.
A lifetime ban is certainly possible with some sort of option to apply for reinstatement in the future.
 

OilCanShotTupac

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Stealing signs is gamesmanship. Cora went too far and should be punished; he doesn’t need to me made a pariah. It’s a lot different than betting on games, or even PEDs (though I think the moral outrage over PED use is overblown too).
Agree 100%. Signs are a ruse de guerre and stealing them should fall into the "all's fair" category.

Those weren't the rules at the time though, and Cora broke them.
 

j44thor

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Only MLB can take a problem that can easily be solved with technology, ear pieces and catcher mics, and instead make a huge deal out of it.
Manfred should have said this will never happen again and use tech to solve the problem period. Now instead Twitter sleuths are going to be scouring mlb games looking for anything out of the ordinary. Odds are high the Sox and Stros weren't the only teams doing this. Nice job not only opening pandoras box but shining a big bright light on it.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Only MLB can take a problem that can easily be solved with technology, ear pieces and catcher mics, and instead make a huge deal out of it.
Manfred should have said this will never happen again and use tech to solve the problem period. Now instead Twitter sleuths are going to be scouring mlb games looking for anything out of the ordinary. Odds are high the Sox and Stros weren't the only teams doing this. Nice job not only opening pandoras box but shining a big bright light on it.
They can still do it. How long would it take to pass something like this?
 

lexrageorge

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If he really was the mastermind of the Houston scheme, Cora is bad guy and a person of low character. As MLB fan, I'm disgusted with what he did and do not consider him to be any better than Lance Armstrong. If I was an owner, I would never consider him to manage my team.
A lifetime ban is certainly possible with some sort of option to apply for reinstatement in the future.
Death penalty for speeding....
 

YTF

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I can't tell if this is sarcasm but I assume this is the LAST thing they'll do because it would likely reveal that many teams were using the replay-room technique, probably even after Manfred's memo like the Red Sox, and I don't think it's a great look for the league to ultimately include, ok, so apparently no one took that memo seriously. At that point punishing the Red Sox would make no sense, other than I guess they are "repeat offenders" due to the Apple Watch thing.

It's the same reason why we never got those ball-inflation numbers from the NFL's league-wide "study" - punishments against a specific team don't make sense when you realize everyone was doing what that team was accused of.

(By the way, this isn't to let the Sox or Cora off the hook - it's the height of arrogance to be lightly chided for one incident, warned that you'll be punished much worse the next time, and then go ahead and do it again anyway.)
Not sarcasm and I'm not sure where I suggested the highlighted. These are two separate investigations and right now none of us have any idea what similarities or differences there are in any of this. We have no idea how deeply this current investigation goes, what other revelations (if any) have come to surface, who else is involved, to what extent or anything else. That's why IMO MLB has to do a deep dive into this. If they want to confront the issue they need to know all aspects of it. Also, I'm not buying your NFL analogy. No one has yet been punished concerning the current investigation. We don't know that "everyone was doing what that team was accused of". People keep comparing the two investigations and from what we know to date they are separate entities. If a deep dive into things reveals more of the same then by all means dole out equal punishment.
 

OurF'ingCity

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
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Apr 22, 2016
3,990
New York City
If a deep dive into things reveals more of the same then by all means dole out equal punishment.
I 100% agree that is what MLB should do - follow all the threads wherever they may lead and to however many teams they lead - I just don't think they will do that unless The Athletic or anyone else posts an article about it first. MLB has a strong incentive to make these issues appear as isolated as they possibly can.
 

natpastime162

Member
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Jul 15, 2005
1,759
Pennsylvania
Nope. Investigating the cases where one has significant information and then assessing harsh penalties to the offenders is exactly how to deal with this, particularly in holding the GM and field manager accountable no matter what level of direct knowledge that they have (Hinch's denials are complete BS). As of today, a bunch of losing teams are not going to be pulling shenanigans with their replay rooms.

The only better way to address this would be to levy suspensions on the players involved as well, even those on other teams. I don't think full-season suspensions are appropriate for players given that the average active player career is much shorter than that expected for a GM/manager, but 50 game suspensions would certainly be in order in my opinion. I suspect the real reason Manfred didn't do this is that the MLBPA would throw a fit.
In that case MLB’s harshly penalties will be reserved for the teams it chooses to investigate.
 

benhogan

Baynes Hogan (pending trade)
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
8,455
Santa Monica
If he really was the mastermind of the Houston scheme, Cora is bad guy and a person of low character. As MLB fan, I'm disgusted with what he did and do not consider him to be any better than Lance Armstrong. If I was an owner, I would never consider him to manage my team.
Has Cora continuously denied the MLB report and ruined other's careers? Then again Alex didn't raise millions to fight cancer.

People make mistakes, it happens, he'll deal with the repercussions

stones/glasshouses alert
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
41,097
I’m curious whether Cora was asked about sign stealing when he was interviewing with the Sox.
 

Patek's 3 Dingers

Luddite
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Jul 5, 2018
297
Death penalty for speeding....
If it's no big deal then why all the penalties to the Astros? Cora's speeding ticket could set the Astros back, 5 years.

If you were a pitcher that gave up a walk-off homer to a guy that knew what pitch was coming, would you be cool with it? What if you were the 25th guy on the roster and were sent down as a result of giving up a dinger to a cheater.
 
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