COVID-19 and the Red Sox

jon abbey

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This is were I educated myself a little.


The girl in your article had heart trouble and they didn`t know if it was even prescribed by a Dr.
This is not the thread for this, but that article was from early April and it was a flat-out lie. This is from last week:

 

keninten

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Nov 24, 2005
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And here's the answer to the Henry Ford study:

Like my post above, the NY Post was bias so I found another. Respectfulinsolence I can`t get behind. Again this is the trouble, peoples agendas. We can go back and forth all day and night refuting each other. I totally respect your opinions but you are right about this not being the thread for this. I`ll end this with a comment that is only me trying to be funny. I`m only going to dislike you because you`re a Yankee fan.:p
 
Feb 19, 2015
3,250
And the death rate is down in large part because those states are marking ‘other’ as cause of death instead of Covid if at all possible.
There is also some thoughts that the death rate could be down because deaths could be lagging infections by more than 1-2 weeks (which is what we saw in the Northeast) due to infections being caught much earlier now than they were back in March and April. I have been reading someone doing modeling on another forum and he thinks that deaths could lag infections by 4-6 weeks now due to vastly increased testing catching infections earlier.
 

InsideTheParker

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Two big caveats before this post: not a doctor and certainly not a professional athlete.

That being said, I currently live in Spain where professional sport has returned and so far rather successfully in terms of players not getting infected, staying healthy, etc. While I haven't spent too much time following baseball's attempt to return, or the NBA or NHL for that matter, I have wondered to myself why it is so much more complicated and difficult.

Spain's first major outbreak occurred in Madrid and Barcelona in the second week of March, as many of you know. About one week later New York City and Seattle saw similar outbreaks. La Liga returned here on June 11, about 3 months after its last game on March 10. The Italian league began about a week and a half later with other European leagues more or less following suit (except for France which canceled the season outright -- partially due to the virus and partially due to PSG having already clinched the league). I mention specifically Spain and Italy due to their similar situations.

When Madrid spiked, it took a bit of time for the central government here to react, and they have received criticism for that. However, they did act, and by March 16 we were in a "State of Alarm" country-wide, despite the outbreak really having only hit Madrid and Barcelona at that time. Many of you perhaps already know this, but the "lockdown" American speak about/spoke about is a bit of a disservice to the term lock-down when compared to what happened in Spain (and Italy). We were only let out of our residences to go grocery shopping (in Italy you needed to carry a self-authorization that could be requested by police and if you were out too frequently, that was a fine or even jail) or to the pharmacy. No travel, no exercise, no parks, no "paseando." This lasted until May 22 when we entered "phase 0" and could take walks and exercise individually outside during certain timetables. I am certainly not a proponent of coercive governments, especially in countries with recent experience with fascism and a rather active far-right, but the measures had an effect. We are now seeing some "rebrotes" or resurgences of the virus after a few weeks of freedom, but so far they are manageable and we can still live somewhat normal lives, all with masks on for the most part. On top of this, there was decent coordination within the EU, reducing if not eliminating travel to cut spread, and aside from the UK, things are looking somewhat positive here. This was possible with an even more decentralized system than the US.

I don't mean for this to be a political post, and if it strays too far, I apologize, and someone can delete, but I think we have a pretty good natural case-study in terms of the effectiveness of a unified and far-sighted (even if it felt a little authoritarian and extreme at the time) response to the virus versus what happened in the US. With one response, something like professional sport is possible and perhaps even rather safe, and with another, let's be honest, if there are ANY professional games played before January 1, I'll be shocked, either at the sudden improvement of the situation or the decision to play regardless.

Yes there are constitutional issues at play, as to whether a unified response would be possible in the States, but it seems like the "dance" that we hear about in the news in terms of dealing with the virus is only really possible after being first "grounded" at home.

Lastly, referring back to one of my caveats, it just seems like there is just too much of the virus around in the States. Questions as to how professional athletes can be infected despite all the care and measures taken to keep them safe proves just how virulent Covid is. The US spent 4 months pretending the virus would stay where it was, and now it hasn't. And it will continue not to.

Anyway, it's sad, and I do hope things improve such that we can enjoy baseball again soon. I miss it, despite it always starting at 2am for me. In the meantime, if you pick a Spanish soccer team, pick Atletico, not Real.
This post has information I wasn't aware of, and I do wish that you would repeat at least some of it in V&N, as I see you are a member.
Of course the level of virus outside of the clubhouses, in the larger society, is relevant to the pursuit of sports, as it is to the opening of schools. But we are not likely to see the level fall as they have in Europe, because of a lack of will to do what it takes. That lack is why we can't have nice things, like baseball, for example. I will be shocked if there's a baseball season, which is why I haven't looked forward to it.
 

absintheofmalaise

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The gran facenda
Like my post above, the NY Post was bias so I found another. Respectfulinsolence I can`t get behind. Again this is the trouble, peoples agendas. We can go back and forth all day and night refuting each other. I totally respect your opinions but you are right about this not being the thread for this. I`ll end this with a comment that is only me trying to be funny. I`m only going to dislike you because you`re a Yankee fan.:p
I hope this is true or that option will be taken away from you.
 

effectivelywild

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Jul 14, 2005
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Like my post above, the NY Post was bias so I found another. Respectfulinsolence I can`t get behind. Again this is the trouble, peoples agendas. We can go back and forth all day and night refuting each other. I totally respect your opinions but you are right about this not being the thread for this. I`ll end this with a comment that is only me trying to be funny. I`m only going to dislike you because you`re a Yankee fan.:p
Here you go:



The WHO has said that trials of hydroxychloroquine (and another drug cocktail) have been stopped due to lack of effectiveness. There is no "its good, now its bad again" stuff going on here. Hydroxychloroquine had a brief time in the spotlight as a POTUS-touted "miracle cure" and has been summarily debunked.

You want to submit months old NY Post articles as "proof," go ahead. There's vast swathes of Reddit---they call them shitposters---in which you can fester.
 

trs

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This post has information I wasn't aware of, and I do wish that you would repeat at least some of it in V&N, as I see you are a member.
Of course the level of virus outside of the clubhouses, in the larger society, is relevant to the pursuit of sports, as it is to the opening of schools. But we are not likely to see the level fall as they have in Europe, because of a lack of will to do what it takes. That lack is why we can't have nice things, like baseball, for example. I will be shocked if there's a baseball season, which is why I haven't looked forward to it.
I have to admit that the amount of posts in V&N is a bit daunting, but I will certainly look for a conversation where this information is relevant and add to the discussion.

I really do agree with you about it all being a lack of will -- the talk of liberty and freedom as reasons to not wear a mask in public is straw-man at best, rampant egoism at most likely. Some people just don't want to be inconvenienced. We saw that here too, don't worry. Anti-government protests starting in the wealthiest neighborhood in Madrid, though they still wore masks, claiming that the government was being dictatorial about forcing people to stay at home all the while some of them were carrying Franco-era flags. It was something to behold.

I really would like a baseball season, but not like this.
 

Max Power

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We saw that here too, don't worry. Anti-government protests starting in the wealthiest neighborhood in Madrid, though they still wore masks, claiming that the government was being dictatorial about forcing people to stay at home all the while some of them were carrying Franco-era flags. It was something to behold.
I hope they thank us here in the US for vividly demonstrating the error of their ways.
 

ehaz

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Eduardo and “minor complications.”

Baseball is truly back.
 

Soxy

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According to ESPN news crawl, apparently EdRo was shut down due to 'complications from virus'
Guerin Austin said during the pre-season game last night that it was the worst he's ever felt and the sickest he's ever been. IIRC, at one point she said he had every symptom. It sounded like it hit him hard.

Seems like this is a bad idea, but that hasn't stopped us yet.
 

nvalvo

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Recovery from COVID isn't always linear. I know someone who has tested postive, then negative, then positive, then negative twice, while feeling miserable in various ways for months.

Two negative tests in three days are no guarantee that a player is going to be able to return soon.
 

dynomite

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Can we change the thread title? I was worried for a moment there!

Tough break with ERod, here’s wishing him a total recovery and all the time he needs to get well. Frankly, never a better season for him to take all the time he needs.
 

DeadlySplitter

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There's a low, but definitely non-zero chance ERod is one of those with his lungs ruined and he could never pitch again. We don't yet know the exact long-term effects of COVID but there are some horrible anecdotes out there. That's how serious this shit is and it's terrifying and makes you realize what the hell are we doing playing ball?
 

NJ_Sox_Fan

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There's a low, but definitely non-zero chance ERod is one of those with his lungs ruined and he could never pitch again. We don't yet know the exact long-term effects of COVID but there are some horrible anecdotes out there. That's how serious this shit is and it's terrifying and makes you realize what the hell are we doing playing ball?
What? He isn’t never pitching again.
 

Apisith

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Baseball players aren't built like other athletes. I think it's reasonable to say that baseball players have bodies that more closely resemble the average person than athletes in other sports (basketball, tennis, football), therefore they'll be affected more than other sports. I think there's a non-zero chance that E-Rod is out for months for sure.
 

Apisith

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Arm, shoulder and length strength are not aerobic strength. Athletes in sports that require aerobic fitness seems to be generally unaffected by COVID-19.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I don't know if it was in Guerin Austin's report or if I saw it somewhere else, but it was reported that when the guys who'd tested positive threw their first bullpen, they only lasted about 20 pitches before they were worn out. It might not be a permanent damage issue so much as the virus sapped all their strength and energy and it's going to take a while for them to get it back.
 

mauf

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There's a low, but definitely non-zero chance ERod is one of those with his lungs ruined and he could never pitch again. We don't yet know the exact long-term effects of COVID but there are some horrible anecdotes out there. That's how serious this shit is and it's terrifying and makes you realize what the hell are we doing playing ball?
Sounds like E-Rod is one of the many recovered COVID patients struggling with persistent fatigue. That fatigue could easily be enough to keep him on the shelf for the entirety of this shortened season. Speculating that it could be something worse than that seems premature — I mean, he could have cancer too, but absent some kind of report suggesting that could actually by the case, we generally don’t speculate about worst-case scenarios.
 

joe dokes

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I hope he's fine, of course. But I also hope that he serves as some sort of cautionary tale for other people his age.
 

jk333

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There's a low, but definitely non-zero chance ERod is one of those with his lungs ruined and he could never pitch again. We don't yet know the exact long-term effects of COVID but there are some horrible anecdotes out there. That's how serious this shit is and it's terrifying and makes you realize what the hell are we doing playing ball?
Can’t we just leave it at, he’s having a severe case of covid19 and we will have to see if and when he is able to return? He could be back in 10 days or next season it’s completely impossible to determine.

Talking about “non-zero” percent chances isn’t helpful. There are non-zero percent chances of many horrible things.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Rodriguez is apparently dealing with myocarditis, which is not an uncommon malady for those diagnosed with COVID-19. Doesn't seem like it will be a chronic condition, just one that requires a lot of rest until it subsides.

I wonder how many more cases like E-Rod's it will take before more uninfected players decide the risks aren't worth participating this season. All it could take is another Juan Soto type incident where an asymptomatic player is on the field possibly spreading it to teammates and opponents alike.
 

DeadlySplitter

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Sorry that I was too extreme. It's just frightening to read that anyone can get severe symptoms and after-effects.
 

Max Power

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I just saw Heath Hembree walking down the street toward the park without a mask on. I don't like the chances of this season finishing.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I just saw Heath Hembree walking down the street toward the park without a mask on. I don't like the chances of this season finishing.
Was he walking all by himself with no one else around him or was this a busy sidewalk where he couldn't help but be close to other people? If he was fairly isolated as he walked, I'm hard pressed to fault him for not wearing a mask. If it was somewhat busy with people, that's a different story.
 

Max Power

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He was walking right by the seating patio on the back side of the Yardhouse. But where exactly in the streets of the Fenway are you going to never come in contact with another person?
 

Max Power

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4 hours before game time with no fans, no concession folks,, no ushers, etc, I'm guessing it is pretty quiet near there.
You'd be surprised. Target was hopping and the area around the park had a bunch of people milling around. I had to circle a bit to find a parking spot. It's not like 15 years ago when it would have been him and the rats behind the Goodyear building. Now it's him, the rats, and lots of residents and medical area workers out for lunch.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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You'd be surprised. Target was hopping and the area around the park had a bunch of people milling around. I had to circle a bit to find a parking spot. It's not like 15 years ago when it would have been him and the rats behind the Goodyear building. Now it's him, the rats, and lots of residents and medical area workers out for lunch.
If you say there were plenty of folks around, no reason not to believe you. He deserves a bit of shaming for not wearing a mask. Meanwhile, shortly after you posted, I noticed this come across Red Sox social media, so Hembree might not be emblematic of the whole team. IIRC, he's a bit of a red-hatter so that might explain his defiance of good social pandemic etiquette.

View: https://twitter.com/RedSox/status/1286741460541411330
 

SoxInTheMist

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Jul 18, 2005
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If you say there were plenty of folks around, no reason not to believe you. He deserves a bit of shaming for not wearing a mask. Meanwhile, shortly after you posted, I noticed this come across Red Sox social media, so Hembree might not be emblematic of the whole team. IIRC, he's a bit of a red-hatter so that might explain his defiance of good social pandemic etiquette.

View: https://twitter.com/RedSox/status/1286741460541411330
Well, considering that tweet came out from Red Sox PR it might not emblematic of the team as a whole either as they're certainly going to pick and choose which pictures to show. I keep going to bed hoping I'll wake up and it will be 2021c already..
 

jk333

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Well, the guidance all along across the entire country has been 6 feet or mask, so if the real answer is 10 feet, or 43 feet, it won't matter much.
6’ should work!
There is no magic number of feet and while 100 is better than 10, past 6’ is diminishing return. There’s value on one number that most people can try to follow also. 6’ it is.

I would love to see a paper quantifying risk but I’m not sure they even have the parameters to quantify it yet.

Tl;dr- It depends on the environment but 6’ is pretty good and masking near people is good.
 
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richgedman'sghost

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Wow. Should just be barred from entering the clubhouse.
I thought it was allowed and advisable to walk down the street without a mask. If not the residents of my community are fucked. Sorry to all the residents of New Haven County.
 

mauf

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I thought it was allowed and advisable to walk down the street without a mask. If not the residents of my community are fucked. Sorry to all the residents of New Haven County.
The guidance is to wear a face covering when you can’t ensure 6-foot distancing. So there’s no need to mask up in my suburban neighborhood, and probably no need in yours either, but someone walking down Brookline Avenue at mid-day should probably be masked.
 

DJnVa

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So, is it too soon to wonder about the potential financial ramifications if this season is cancelled after 3 or 4 games?