Covid and MLB

NJ_Sox_Fan

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Likewise, @NJ_Sox_Fan I can have you speak to my niece, who said breathing was like drowning for two months straight. Breathe in and then breathe out. See how easy that is? Imagine feeling like you're drowning with each breath, for two months straight. I can have you talk to my brother in law, whose sense of taste has been fucked up since February.

I can have you talk to my twin sister, who could also barely breathe without coughing every time for a month, and experience chronic fatigue.

But yeah, it's overblown and not a big deal.

Go to the V&N and support thread and tell them it's not a big deal and come back and let us know what they say.
EDIT - Apologies for derailing the thread - back to talking about the idiocy of the Miami Marlins
 
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OurF'ingCity

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Bingo, I couldn't believe the proximity of players in the dugout and the lack of masks in the stands. I can just imagine how much distancing is going on in the clubhouse.

Are home teams staying in a hotel or is it family time at the house as usual? I kind of remember the players not wanting to "suffer" through 66-days without family interaction and being isolated to insure a safer potential work outcome... 'cause FREEDOM!
Home teams are staying at their houses and interacting with their families. This article gives a good rundown of the protocols (side note: it's depressing how many of the rules discussed in that article I've already seen being willfully disobeyed repeatedly - players are clearly spitting and not socially distancing in dugouts, celebrating together, etc., and that's only what's visible. My guess is the situation is even worse in the clubhouses, weight rooms, etc. where players know there won't be cameras.
 

Ale Xander

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I hope the hotel the Mets are staying at (Commonwealth or Sheraton I presume) cancels their reservations
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I did not say it was fake, or not deadly. I will give a specific. In NJ, we still do not have indoor dining, however liquor stores never closed. Malls are open. Etc. So, if you can shop in a mall, where everyone touches everything, how can you not be safe to eat indoors, with spaced out tables. It makes zero sense.
The virus primarily transmits through the air, not surface to surface. Eating requires removing masks (and thus expirating more into the open air), whereas all the rest of those activities do not. Makes all the sense in the world to me.
 

NJ_Sox_Fan

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The virus primarily transmits through the air, not surface to surface. Eating requires removing masks (and thus expirating more into the open air), whereas all the rest of those activities do not. Makes all the sense in the world to me.
But then it would infect people at outdoor restaurants and bars, no? Which are totally allowable. It is a ridiculous premise to me that you are safe at a bar outside, hanging out with a bunch of strangers, but you are not safe indoors, at a table 6+ feet from strangers.

Anyhow, this isn't the thread to argue about it, so I will drop it and just reassert that MLB looks absolutely disgraceful in this, where presumably their SS decided whether or not they should play.
 

Bozo Texino

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But then it would infect people at outdoor restaurants and bars, no? Which are totally allowable. It is a ridiculous premise to me that you are safe at a bar outside, hanging out with a bunch of strangers, but you are not safe indoors, at a table 6+ feet from strangers.
You're indoors, at a table 6+ feet from strangers, still breathing circulated air.

It's much safer to be outdoors.
 

loshjott

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You are taking it out of context. Or I should have been more clear. Overblown was referencing the numbers. In this state alone, I know for a fact that hospitals were coding people as Covid positive for the extra money, regardless of whether or not they were tested for example. The part about some things put into place that are ridiculous I just posted above. Again, for NJ, no indoor dining, but liquor stores never closed. Parks and beaches were closed, but protests were OK. Malls are open, and safe apparently, but going to a restaurant indoors is a no no. Bars are OK outside, but not inside. Etc. I work in the nursing home industry - we had countless folks pass away, including some employees, so I am well aware the virus is serious and can be deadly for those who are compromised or elderly (or both).
Link for the bolded?
 

RIrooter09

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But then it would infect people at outdoor restaurants and bars, no? Which are totally allowable. It is a ridiculous premise to me that you are safe at a bar outside, hanging out with a bunch of strangers, but you are not safe indoors, at a table 6+ feet from strangers.
There are degrees of safety. You’re safer outdoors but you’re by no means 100% safe. Breathing recirculated air indoors for an extended period is far riskier.
 

OurF'ingCity

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But then it would infect people at outdoor restaurants and bars, no? Which are totally allowable. It is a ridiculous premise to me that you are safe at a bar outside, hanging out with a bunch of strangers, but you are not safe indoors, at a table 6+ feet from strangers.
I'd suggest either taking this to V&N or just ending this discussion altogether as you are digging yourself a bigger and bigger hole on this topic. (In regard to your specific post, the differences between likelihood of transmission indoors vs. outdoors, all else being equal, have been extremely well-documented and covered in the news.)
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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But then it would infect people at outdoor restaurants and bars, no? Which are totally allowable. It is a ridiculous premise to me that you are safe at a bar outside, hanging out with a bunch of strangers, but you are not safe indoors, at a table 6+ feet from strangers.
Fresh air circulates outdoors. Not so much inside, particularly places that have ventilation systems that just recirculate air.
 

Rovin Romine

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But then it would infect people at outdoor restaurants and bars, no? Which are totally allowable. It is a ridiculous premise to me that you are safe at a bar outside, hanging out with a bunch of strangers, but you are not safe indoors, at a table 6+ feet from strangers.

Anyhow, this isn't the thread to argue about it, so I will drop it and just reassert that MLB looks absolutely disgraceful in this, where presumably their SS decided whether or not they should play.
So shouldn't your argument be: outside dining should be done at greater distances?

Otherwise it sounds a bit like a whiny child saying, "But Billy's Mommy lets him play with razor blades!"
 

RIrooter09

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So glad this asshat is planning to traipse around the state I live in after getting off a plane in a month.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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I'd suggest either taking this to V&N or just ending this discussion altogether as you are digging yourself a bigger and bigger hole on this topic. (In regard to your specific post, the differences between likelihood of transmission indoors vs. outdoors, all else being equal, have been extremely well-documented and covered in the news.)
It wouldn't go well.
 

MuzzyField

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But then it would infect people at outdoor restaurants and bars, no? Which are totally allowable. It is a ridiculous premise to me that you are safe at a bar outside, hanging out with a bunch of strangers, but you are not safe indoors, at a table 6+ feet from strangers.

Anyhow, this isn't the thread to argue about it, so I will drop it and just reassert that MLB looks absolutely disgraceful in this, where presumably their SS decided whether or not they should play.
Feel free to experiment at home.

Fart in a closet and take note of the fart smell and duration of fart smell.... now go outside and fart. Any difference?
 

scott bankheadcase

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So shouldn't your argument be: outside dining should be done at greater distances?

Otherwise it sounds a bit like a whiny child saying, "But Billy's Mommy lets him play with razor blades!"
Outdoor dining and outdoor bar requirement in NJ involve 6 feet of separation between all parties as a requirement. There are also a bunch of other factors at play vs. his ill-informed posting, such as indoor dining being in Murphy's phased approach, which he halted when national cases began to spike again. He hasn't seen the need to roll-back what was already out of the bag yet (outdoor dining). Most things he's done has made both scientific and logical sense.

I'm now an offender, but this should all probably go to V&N.
 

Rwillh11

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But then it would infect people at outdoor restaurants and bars, no? Which are totally allowable. It is a ridiculous premise to me that you are safe at a bar outside, hanging out with a bunch of strangers, but you are not safe indoors, at a table 6+ feet from strangers.
I was trying not to jump in on this topic, but...

1. Air circulates much quicker outdoors. Virus will linger in the air indoors; studies have found evidence of this, here is one of many articles on the topic: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/07/11/889716534/coronavirus-faq-how-do-i-protect-myself-if-the-coronavirus-can-linger-in-the-air

2. It's really, really, stupid (and arguably dangerous) during a pandemic to just sort of through things like this out there without doing the research, and seeing what the experts have to say. Don't be an idiot.
 

Gdiguy

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The season over talk is a bit over the top I think - this was not unexpected, and honestly until a player either winds up hospitalized (or worse) I don't think we're going to see anything close to season-level stuff.

Just make your peace with the fact that this 'season' is going to be a complete mess and at least we get some baseball games out of it
 

Ale Xander

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The season over talk is a bit over the top I think - this was not unexpected, and honestly until a player either winds up hospitalized (or worse) I don't think we're going to see anything close to season-level stuff.

Just make your peace with the fact that this 'season' is going to be a complete mess and at least we get some baseball games out of it
The ace for one of the 3 most famous teams in MLB has myocarditis. That should be enough.
 

Marciano490

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Infectious means people get in-fected?

It seems like MLB spent too much time worry about how to squeeze extra money out of the season and not enough time coming up with proper safety protocols. Which is insane given it’s a multi-billion dollar enterprise with access to the best doctors, lawyers, guns and money out there. Wild guess - the NFL follows the MLB model closer than the NBA one.
 

joe dokes

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Here is Jeter's shitty non-statement about what is going on:

View: https://twitter.com/Marlins/status/1287781348623757312


And here is a good response from Craig Calcaterra at NBC Sports, asking the basic questions that we really need answers to:
And *this* is why I was at least partially willing to go along with MLB's charade/plan if the owners travelled with the team and went where the players go. Then I'd know they were serious, not their usual malignant selves.
 

PseuFighter

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I suppose it's possible a state could stop sports, which would put an end to this real fast. Also, aren't people coming in from many of these places required to quarantine?
 

joe dokes

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deleted my contribution to thread derailment.

I assume a hotel, like the ones in Boston, can cancel reservations, though they might be on the hook for damages of some sort.
 
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E5 Yaz

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In this state alone, I know for a fact that hospitals were coding people as Covid positive for the extra money, regardless of whether or not they were tested for example.
Did the state AG thank you for providing the evidence to help build a fraud case against these hospitals?
 

RedOctober3829

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That's not quite how I took that story, but the fact we're not sure is in and of itself insane. It sounds to me that once you get a positive diagnosis, everyone who has been in close contact is supposed to quarantine until they get the "Expedited Diagnostic Test." The Inquirer says they got that Sunday morning, but it's not clear to me what the results were.

Also, apparently the Phillies learned of this ahead of time and decided to play anyway, as well.
The part I have an issue is that the teams decided on their own whether to play or not. Once you get positive tests, the game should be in the hands of the league and not the teams. Of course the team will want to play. MLB has botched this from the start and it's not surprising that they couldn't make it through the first weekend without issues. Also, how did the Marlins players contract the disease? Were they going out in Atlanta?
 

absintheofmalaise

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You are taking it out of context. Or I should have been more clear. Overblown was referencing the numbers. In this state alone, I know for a fact that hospitals were coding people as Covid positive for the extra money, regardless of whether or not they were tested for example. The part about some things put into place that are ridiculous I just posted above. Again, for NJ, no indoor dining, but liquor stores never closed. Parks and beaches were closed, but protests were OK. Malls are open, and safe apparently, but going to a restaurant indoors is a no no. Bars are OK outside, but not inside. Etc. I work in the nursing home industry - we had countless folks pass away, including some employees, so I am well aware the virus is serious and can be deadly for those who are compromised or elderly (or both).
I realize that you've been asked for links to your charge that hospitals have been coding non-COVID patients as COVID. Either post a link from a reputable source or edit your post. As for the other, you've dropped it in this thread. Please use one of the COVID threads in V&N in the future.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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I suppose it's possible a state could stop sports, which would put an end to this real fast. Also, aren't people coming in from many of these places required to quarantine?
Yeah I thought Governor Baker's order for 14-day quarantine starting August 1st only exempted a handful of states, one of which is DEFINITELY not Florida. But I didn't read the whole order, only the reporting thereof, so maybe you could stretch to say MLB players are "commuting" to Fenway or sports leagues are fully exempt. Not sure...
 

DJnVa

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I know it's hard, but maybe this thread can be about MLB and not what one poster thinks about COVID.
 

Comfortably Lomb

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Yeah I thought Governor Baker's order only exempted a handful of states, one of which is DEFINITELY not Florida. But I didn't read the whole order, only the reporting thereof, so maybe you could stretch to say MLB players are "commuting" to Fenway or sports leagues are fully exempt. Not sure...
A negative test from a sample taken less than 72 hours prior entry to MA exempts someone from the non-exempt state travel quarantine requirement. I don't think the commuting exemption applies for someone who comes in for a 3 day stay.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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A negative test from a sample taken less than 72 hours prior entry to MA exempts someone from the non-exempt state travel quarantine requirement. I don't think the commuting exemption applies for someone who comes in for a 3 day stay.
Ok so how Maine wrote their rule. Got it.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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I suppose it's possible a state could stop sports, which would put an end to this real fast. Also, aren't people coming in from many of these places required to quarantine?
Canada put a stop to MLB in their country. That wasn't enough.

Then the Jays were denied their request to share PNC Park with the Pirates, with Pennsylvania officials saying that they didn't want the extra burden of visitors to the area from out of state. I asked then why that caution and concern wasn't being applied to the Pirates and Phillies? Logically speaking, 60 games isn't that much more of a risk than 30 games.

Lo and behold, the Marlins brought an infection into their state. Hopefully, none of the Phillies or their staff end up testing positive as a result, but if they do, maybe that pushes Pennsylvania to shut them down. That would be a monkey wrench in MLB's system.
 

joe dokes

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The part I have an issue is that the teams decided on their own whether to play or not. Once you get positive tests, the game should be in the hands of the league and not the teams. Of course the team will want to play. MLB has botched this from the start and it's not surprising that they couldn't make it through the first weekend without issues. Also, how did the Marlins players contract the disease? Were they going out in Atlanta?
This is the league that, up until the game starts, lets the home team decide when and whether a game should be rained out.
 

YTF

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I suppose it's possible a state could stop sports, which would put an end to this real fast. Also, aren't people coming in from many of these places required to quarantine?
I know I mentioned this a while back, but 1/3 of MLB teams play in Florida, Arizona, California and Texas. Imagine being the Rockies and having to travel to LA, San Diego, San Francisco and Arizona. Oh and they also get to Texas, Oakland and Houston for interleague play, plus they get to host these seven teams at their place as well as the LA Angels. This accounts for 57 of their 60 games.
 

E5 Yaz

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Hopefully, none of the Phillies or their staff end up testing positive as a result, but if they do, maybe that pushes Pennsylvania to shut them down. That would be a monkey wrench in MLB's system.
This is it, right here. It won't be MLB or the union that forces the hand. It will be a state government. Gavin Newsom comes to mind, should there be a similar outbreak on one of the five California teams.
 

johnmd20

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I know it's hard, but maybe this thread can be about MLB and not what one poster thinks about COVID.
I agree, feeding the "Covid isn't really a thing" troll is brutal. Yes, you can certainly all pile on the idiot spouting idiocy. I guess it's fun. But it really isn't.

Or, and here's an idea, don't answer him at all and it will stop.
 

Mooch

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Just make your peace with the fact that this 'season' is going to be a complete mess and at least we get some baseball games out of it
Not trying to blast you for this statement because I think that our sports deprivation is leading to many people feeling the same way. However, what's the fucking point? If we're talking about a season where half the league makes a post-season tournament, where entire teams are reduced to below replacement level talent for weeks at a time, creating severely disproportionate advantages depending on a short calendar, etc...?

Honestly? It's probably not even worth paying attention to the 2020 season at this point. And I'd say this even if the Sox weren't terrible. I think.
 

radsoxfan

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Obviously there is the bubble/non-bubble issue, and whether or not it's feasible to do a bubble (or multiple bubbles) for baseball is probably debatable. But not enough emphasis and realization is on the difference between the US right now and other countries. We are absolutely crawling with COVID right now, our infection density is so high that the exact same protocols here are WAY more likely to result in an outbreak like this compared to other countries.

Per COVID19-projections (infections are estimated true infections, not positive tests)

US:
Daily new infections: 443K (1,307 per million population)
Current Infections: 6.8M (2.05% of total population)

UK:
Daily new infections: 13K (193 per million population)
Current Infections: 200K (0.30% of total population)

South Korea:
Daily new infections: 388 (8 per million population)
Current Infections: 5.8k (0.01% of total population)


It's tough timing for baseball of course, but they were always playing with fire here. When you take short cuts and have zero national leadership, you don't get the privilege to try what other countries are trying to do unfortunately.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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Obviously there is the bubble/non-bubble issue, and whether or not it's feasible to do a bubble (or multiple bubbles) for baseball is probably debatable. But not enough emphasis and realization is on the difference between the US right now and other countries. We are absolutely crawling with COVID right now, our infection density is so high that the exact same protocols here are WAY more likely to result in an outbreak like this compared to other countries.

Per COVID19-projections (infections are estimated true infections, not positive tests)

US:
Daily new infections: 443K (1,307 per million population)
Current Infections: 6.8M (2.05% of total population)

UK:
Daily new infections: 13K (193 per million population)
Current Infections: 200K (0.30% of total population)

South Korea:
Daily new infections: 388 (8 per million population)
Current Infections: 5.8k (0.01% of total population)


It's tough timing for baseball of course, but they were always playing with fire here. When you take short cuts and have zero national leadership, you don't get the privilege to try what other countries are trying to do unfortunately.
Are you sure about that 443K daily new infections? CDC (I know) says 64K https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html