Covid and MLB

Light-Tower-Power

ask me about My Pillow
SoSH Member
Jun 14, 2013
15,968
Nashua, NH
Not trying to blast you for this statement because I think that our sports deprivation is leading to many people feeling the same way. However, what's the fucking point? If we're talking about a season where half the league makes a post-season tournament, where entire teams are reduced to below replacement level talent for weeks at a time, creating severely disproportionate advantages depending on a short calendar, etc...?

Honestly? It's probably not even worth paying attention to the 2020 season at this point. And I'd say this even if the Sox weren't terrible. I think.
I could not care less what the outcome of any game is and haven't for a couple years now but listening to Remy and Eck in the background at night or on a weekend afternoon just feels right. It feels like a comforting sense of normalcy. I might have watched more baseball the last three days than I did all of last year.
 

InsideTheParker

persists in error
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
40,371
Pioneer Valley
blob:https://www.mlb.com/74b185f1-7c58-48b4-a49e-0bd5d638235a

Uh. Unclear on the concept? Time for another talk by their medical staff?
This should be it for Manfred’s tenure. That players were the ones deciding whether to play or not speaks to the absolute absence of league leadership.
Managing the Corona virus is up to the governors in the absence of national leadership. But at least they have some experience in decision making. This situation is beyond bizarre.
 

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

has big, douchey shoulders
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Not trying to blast you for this statement because I think that our sports deprivation is leading to many people feeling the same way. However, what's the fucking point? If we're talking about a season where half the league makes a post-season tournament, where entire teams are reduced to below replacement level talent for weeks at a time, creating severely disproportionate advantages depending on a short calendar, etc...?

Honestly? It's probably not even worth paying attention to the 2020 season at this point. And I'd say this even if the Sox weren't terrible. I think.
The fucking point is pretty simple, really. There is a baseball game tonight and people can escape in it if they so choose.
Now whether or not they should be playing is certainly a legit discussion. But finding a little enjoyment in individual games without worrying about the context of a “season” is something that some people can do.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,249
I could not care less what the outcome of any game is and haven't for a couple years now but listening to Remy and Eck in the background at night or on a weekend afternoon just feels right. It feels like a comforting sense of normalcy. I might have watched more baseball the last three days than I did all of last year.
I watched plenty last year, but that's where I am. As I lay in a hammock with beer yesterday, I found myself not caring much about the result. But it was "comforting' (that's the right word) to hear Castig.
 

radsoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 9, 2009
13,622
Are you sure about that 443K daily new infections? CDC (I know) says 64K https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html
That’s why I put the caveat these are true new infections, not positive tests.

We definitely have a large undercount of actual infections given the high positive % numbers, that website has it estimated at 5-8x depending on location.

The numbers from other countries are also true infection estimates, not positive tests.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
20,680
Maine
The fucking point is pretty simple, really. There is a baseball game tonight and people can escape in it if they so choose.
Now whether or not they should be playing is certainly a legit discussion. But finding a little enjoyment in individual games without worrying about the context of a “season” is something that some people can do.
There's a reason that ESPN is broadcasting KBO games daily...people want to watch live sports. Even if they're not fully invested in the teams or the season overall, it's nice to have games to watch.

I think MLB was foolish to think they could put together a season amidst this crisis, and I expect it to fail before it finishes, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't watch in the meantime.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
53,854
MLB has no plans to cancel (per push notification) but will double-down on outlawing spitting and high-fiving.
 

Mooch

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
4,494
The fucking point is pretty simple, really. There is a baseball game tonight and people can escape in it if they so choose.
Now whether or not they should be playing is certainly a legit discussion. But finding a little enjoyment in individual games without worrying about the context of a “season” is something that some people can do.
I understand the desire for escapism for sure but if there are no real stakes in the ultimate outcome of this "season", doesn't it render the games themselves virtually meaningless? I miss baseball as much as the next guy but this certainly doesn't seem worth putting out this product with legitimate health concerns bubbling up and the ultimate outcome being a title that has no real legitimacy. Is it worth it?
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,249
I understand the desire for escapism for sure but if there are no real stakes in the ultimate outcome of this "season", doesn't it render the games themselves virtually meaningless? I miss baseball as much as the next guy but this certainly doesn't seem worth putting out this product with legitimate health concerns bubbling up and the ultimate outcome being a title that has no real legitimacy. Is it worth it?
As Jim McKay used to say, "The human drama of athletic competition." If the players are taking it seriously, I can be entertained a bit by a game I like. If it turns out that the players and teams are infecting communities and people who aren't signed up to take the risk, then I'm out.
 

SemperFidelisSox

Member
SoSH Member
May 25, 2008
31,104
Boston, MA
It’s up to the individual player if it’s worth it or not. We’re just watching. If a player or manager feels a chance at a ring is worth the risk, that’s their choice.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
53,854
I understand the desire for escapism for sure but if there are no real stakes in the ultimate outcome of this "season", doesn't it render the games themselves virtually meaningless?
No.

The games are always "meaningless" in a number of ways:
1--it's grown men playing a game
2--your team might suck, making your games meaningless
3--now this.

I like baseball, I want to watch, and it's not my call on if they play, and I don't think they're basing their decisions on how many people are watching on MLB.TV
 

OurF'ingCity

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 22, 2016
8,469
New York City
MLB has no plans to cancel (per push notification) but will double-down on outlawing spitting and high-fiving.
MLB sure does love to address massive structural issues with small, almost insignificant "fixes." This is the Covid-19 equivalent of thinking they could address pace of play by making intentional walks automatic.
 

HriniakPosterChild

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 6, 2006
14,841
500 feet above Lake Sammammish
This is the league that, up until the game starts, lets the home team decide when and whether a game should be rained out.
But the visiting team’s shortstop decides about infectious diseases.
MLB has no plans to cancel (per push notification) but will double-down on outlawing spitting and high-fiving.
Sounds like the letters will be sternly worded!
 

mauf

Anderson Cooper × Mr. Rogers
Moderator
SoSH Member
I understand the desire for escapism for sure but if there are no real stakes in the ultimate outcome of this "season", doesn't it render the games themselves virtually meaningless? I miss baseball as much as the next guy but this certainly doesn't seem worth putting out this product with legitimate health concerns bubbling up and the ultimate outcome being a title that has no real legitimacy. Is it worth it?
Teams that won titles in 1942-45 or 1981 don’t worry much about the “legitimacy” of those titles. Neither will whoever wins in 2020 or 2021 (assuming MLB finds a way to muddle through, have a season, and a crown a champion) worry about the legitimacy of their title. If you don’t enjoy watching, then by all means don’t watch, but I don’t think many people who enjoy watching will end up deciding the whole thing is tainted.
 
Last edited:

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
53,854
This read like an excerpt from today's edition of The Onion.
https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-has-no-plans-to-cancel-or-pause-2020-season-after-marlins-coronavirus-outbreak-per-reports/
Manfred and the owners intend to instead "redouble health directives," such as players wearing masks or facial coverings in the clubhouse, and "reinforce on-field behavior prohibitions" against gestures like high fives, per Scott Miller of Bleacher Report.
 

OurF'ingCity

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 22, 2016
8,469
New York City
Teams that won titles in 1942-45 or 1981 don’t worry much about the “legitimacy” of those titles. Neither will whoever wins in 2020 or 2021 (assuming MLB finds a way to muddle through, have a season, and a crown a champion) worry about it. If you don’t enjoy watching, then by all means don’t watch, but I don’t think the titles are going to be tainted.
I've seen others make this argument too, but the situations don't strike me as remotely comparable. Even during WWII teams generally knew ahead of time who would or wouldn't be available for a given season, fans were still in the stands, teams were able to travel normally, and the playoff rules were the same as they before and after the war. In the current situation, we are likely going to see players on the IL for extended periods of time due to Covid and others may voluntarily choose to end their seasons early, the playoffs have already been expanded and altered to considerably hurt the odds of the best teams winning the WS, and the events of the past few days suggest that, if we even get to the end of the season, there may be some teams that haven't even played the same number of games as other teams.

Don't get me wrong - I will continue to watch as long as the season goes on. But if the Red Sox somehow magically got hot and won the WS (haha) I don't think many here would have any problem admitting that it doesn't "count" in the same way their other titles do, as fun as that experience might still be.
 

Lose Remerswaal

Experiencing Furry Panic
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
That’s why I put the caveat these are true new infections, not positive tests.

We definitely have a large undercount of actual infections given the high positive % numbers, that website has it estimated at 5-8x depending on location.

The numbers from other countries are also true infection estimates, not positive tests.
Thanks for the clarification
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,249
It's like Manfred got a discount on the 1981 version of the NFL Concussion Protocol and decided to put it to use.
 

Rovin Romine

Johnny Rico
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
23,723
Miami (oh, Miami!)
Teams that won titles in 1942-45 or 1981 don’t worry much about the “legitimacy” of those titles. Neither will whoever wins in 2020 or 2021 (assuming MLB finds a way to muddle through, have a season, and a crown a champion) worry about the legitimacy of their title. If you don’t enjoy watching, then by all means don’t watch, but I don’t think many people who enjoy watching will end up deciding the whole thing is tainted.
Surely there's a point of attenuation to a near-zero though? If the season ends today, would Miguel Rojas be proclaimed a batting champion for hitting .700? Or would it be a sort of trivia-exception to the current records?
 

mauf

Anderson Cooper × Mr. Rogers
Moderator
SoSH Member
Surely there's a point of attenuation to a near-zero though? If the season ends today, would Miguel Rojas be proclaimed a batting champion for hitting .700? Or would it be a sort of trivia-exception to the current records?
I’m assuming that there’s something vaguely resembling the scheduled 60-game season, and that most of the teams that qualify for the postseason are able to field competitive teams for those series. In that case, the number of games would be greater than either half of the split 1981 season, and the teams competing for the championship would have much more continuity with the pre-crisis roster than teams in 1942-45 did. If titles won in those years are deemed legitimate (and I think they generally are), then I don’t see why 2020 would be different.

Obviously, it’s possible that MLB will not be able to execute anything close to what they’ve planned, but will still hold a postseason after a highly disrupted and ridiculously short season in an effort to capture postseason TV revenues. In that case, sure, I’d agree that the winner would deserve a big old asterisk. But hopefully it won’t come to that.

So yeah, I agree with you.
 

Gdiguy

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
6,233
San Diego, CA
Not trying to blast you for this statement because I think that our sports deprivation is leading to many people feeling the same way. However, what's the fucking point? If we're talking about a season where half the league makes a post-season tournament, where entire teams are reduced to below replacement level talent for weeks at a time, creating severely disproportionate advantages depending on a short calendar, etc...?

Honestly? It's probably not even worth paying attention to the 2020 season at this point. And I'd say this even if the Sox weren't terrible. I think.
Oh I agree with you - I think the season should've been cancelled a long time ago. But if "we" (as a society) had decided 3 weeks ago that we were going ahead with it, I'm not really sure why the entirely predictable event of a team having an outbreak would change that plan until people actually see serious consequences (i.e. hospitalizations)
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,249
Surely there's a point of attenuation to a near-zero though? If the season ends today, would Miguel Rojas be proclaimed a batting champion for hitting .700? Or would it be a sort of trivia-exception to the current records?
There is such a point. As one time Sugar Hill, NH resident* Potter Stewart put it in defining obscentiy, "I'll know it when i see it."


*And SCOTUS Justice.
 

OurF'ingCity

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 22, 2016
8,469
New York City
For those who subscribe, the Athletic has a pretty good rundown of where things stand. In short, baseball executives are still saying dumb things like this:
Some team executives, meanwhile, say the shock value of the Marlins’ news actually might prompt positive if the league can continue pressing forward, reinforcing to players the importance of practicing social distancing and adhering to other measures designed to keep them safe. As one executive said, “I think if we can get through this it will scare the s— out of everyone.”
While actual epidemiologists are saying things like this:
“This is absolutely insane . . . if possible, the literal stupidest possible plan,” Binney said on Twitter. “You have a raging outbreak, anyone in the Marlin’s traveling party could be infected regardless of how their tests come back. So by all means, just bring that on the road to Baltimore!”

On the “Starkville” podcast, Binney said, “At a minimum, you have to shut down for at least five days to see if more cases uncover. And you need to wait because you could have ongoing transmission from cases that are newly discovered tomorrow or the next day. You could still have more come from chains of transmission from those people after that. So there’s no cure but time here, unfortunately.”
https://theathletic.com/1956316/2020/07/27/this-is-way-more-than-a-wake-up-call-where-mlb-goes-from-here/
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 24, 2002
48,214
tonight at least; nothing official after that

but if they are dinging tonight's game, why would they play tomorrow? one day later won't make a difference
Untrue.

Miguel Rojas can make a more informed determination about the safety of playing that series.
If we have learned anything over the past few months, its that we need to let public health experts lead the way.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
25,897
Los Angeles, CA

MuzzyField

Well-Known Member
Gold Supporter
SoSH Member
If players continue to stay at home and interact with family this will be a really quick short season.

How many watch parties do you think the families are enjoying to view the games? I'm guessing food, pools and all around summer fun.

This non-bubble requires the families be distancing too and they aren't.

I also wonder how "bubbled" these guys are capable of being are on the road and comprehending how critical distancing is to the success of all this.

And as Red just reported, the owners are led by a buffoon that simply amplifies their collective incompetence.