Covid and MLB

Papelbon's Poutine

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Dec 4, 2005
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This isn't the brag that you think it is.
Wasn't thinking it was a brag. Good on ya for going to ones on more cities than I. If you can’t wrap your head around the point, not sure how to help.

Basic result

Strip club =\= biohazard


if he went fucking Carl’s Jr. I’m not sure he’d get same level of scrutiny
 

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

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Wasn't thinking it was a brag. Good on ya for going to ones on more cities than I. If you can’t wrap your head around the point, not sure how to help.

Basic result

Strip club =\= biohazard


if he went fucking Carl’s Jr. I’m not sure he’d get same level of scrutiny
I've been to very few strip clubs, but each one I have been to included a lot of booze.
I never went fucking Carl's Jr, but when I do go to fast food, it doesn't include booze.

Any place with booze is more dangerous than any place without.
 

Marciano490

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Wasn't thinking it was a brag. Good on ya for going to ones on more cities than I. If you can’t wrap your head around the point, not sure how to help.

Basic result

Strip club =\= biohazard


if he went fucking Carl’s Jr. I’m not sure he’d get same level of scrutiny
I’ll say this about strip clubs - at least they usually have staff capable of enforcing the rules. I feel bad watching 80 year old Walmart greeters or average built grocery clerks trying to enforce mask laws against aggressive disobeyers.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Wasn't thinking it was a brag. Good on ya for going to ones on more cities than I. If you can’t wrap your head around the point, not sure how to help.

Basic result

Strip club =\= biohazard


if he went fucking Carl’s Jr. I’m not sure he’d get same level of scrutiny
This is such a strange, sad hill to die on.

The scrutiny is for being in an indoor establishment, presumably for hours, partying. Drinking, eating, laughing, shouting, etc, probably sans masks (or worn improperly or not enough). If they did that in a Carl's Jr, and subsequently tested positive for COVID-19, they sure as shit would get the same level of scrutiny. Don't know that I've ever seen such partying take place in a Carl's Jr, or any other fast food establishment. At least not by people over the age of 8.
 

moretsyndrome

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Wasn't thinking it was a brag. Good on ya for going to ones on more cities than I. If you can’t wrap your head around the point, not sure how to help.

Basic result

Strip club =\= biohazard


if he went fucking Carl’s Jr. I’m not sure he’d get same level of scrutiny
I don’t know how many times it needs to be pointed out that nobody is assigning any extra Horrible Fucking Decision Points to going to a strip club over a bar, club, casino or any other enclosed, crowded venue which serves alcohol, but apparently 6000 times isn’t enough for you.

For the sake of those of us anxiously checking into this thread for information on the future of the game we love, could you let it go?
 

YTF

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Honestly since it seems like both teams with outbreaks are ones that straight up broke from protocol, just kick them out of the league and keep going. Cardinals finish out the rest of the season with losses. Marlins too.
The only problem with that thinking is that for every game that is canceled, you have another team slated to play that same game. IMO forfeiting all of those games and potentially handing multiple teams 10 wins in a 60 game season isn't the way to go. You could have whoever those other affect teams are play each other as the league already has, but eventually their will be some scheduling conflicts and that gets thrown out of whack if as soon as you have a third team that's unable to go on. It will also force teams to play out of their division which is something MLB is trying to stay away from. I get that at this point it's all pretty much reactive rather than proactive so I guess everything is pretty much on the table until the pull the plug.
 

EvilEmpire

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The takewaway for me is that Manfred has some wiggle room but wanted/needed to send as strong message as possible to the players/management/owners that they've got to get things under control. If telling networks to prepare for other programming doesn't get everyone's attention, nothing will.
 

JCizzle

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Honestly since it seems like both teams with outbreaks are ones that straight up broke from protocol, just kick them out of the league and keep going. Cardinals finish out the rest of the season with losses. Marlins too.
They also lose draft position because we damn well deserve it!
 

djbayko

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I’ll say this about strip clubs - at least they usually have staff capable of enforcing the rules. I feel bad watching 80 year old Walmart greeters or average built grocery clerks trying to enforce mask laws against aggressive disobeyers.
Sure they have scary bouncers. But you know full well that strip clubs are a cat and mouse game where people are trying to get away with a little something, including the dancers. Full contact dances in states that require and air gap for example, because this type of behavior commands a premium. I’m not anti-strip club or stripper by any means. Put in a lot of hours back in the day, rubbing elbows with partners and entertaining clients. But it’s a setting that encourages intimacy and socialization. Even if rules are crafted to preclude that, it’s going to take place because $$$.
 
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dynomite

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What do you do with the teams that were supposed to play them? Random 2-3 day vacations? Do they go home if it's the middle of a road trip or do they spend those days holed up in the previous or next town? Where do they work out if they stay on the road (hitters will want to hit, pitchers will want to throw)?
But isn’t the bigger problem is we’re a week into this and already 2 teams have significant outbreaks? ERod is a young healthy athlete and has an enlarged heart condition. How many players/coaches need to have serious reactions to COVID for enough of the league to decide this isn’t worth it? Manfred can talk all he wants about not being a quitter but this isn’t his decision alone.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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This is such a strange, sad hill to die on.

The scrutiny is for being in an indoor establishment, presumably for hours, partying. Drinking, eating, laughing, shouting, etc, probably sans masks (or worn improperly or not enough). If they did that in a Carl's Jr, and subsequently tested positive for COVID-19, they sure as shit would get the same level of scrutiny. Don't know that I've ever seen such partying take place in a Carl's Jr, or any other fast food establishment. At least not by people over the age of 8.
Lol ok, I’m dying on the hill. Sure. Everyone that goes to a strip club is a degenerate from Animal House and everyone is hammered. It’s basically Bacchanalia.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Lol ok, I’m dying on the hill. Sure. Everyone that goes to a strip club is a degenerate from Animal House and everyone is hammered. It’s basically Bacchanalia.
Holy fuck. NO ONE IS SAYING ANYTHING OF THE KIND.

And yeah, with as many posts as you've made in the last 24 hours focused on this strawman, you do seem to want to die on this hill.
 

Bob Montgomerys Helmet Hat

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The takewaway for me is that Manfred has some wiggle room but wanted/needed to send as strong message as possible to the players/management/owners that they've got to get things under control. If telling networks to prepare for other programming doesn't get everyone's attention, nothing will.
I think this is probably right. All he can really do at this point is make a strong threat.
 

djbayko

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Honestly since it seems like both teams with outbreaks are ones that straight up broke from protocol, just kick them out of the league and keep going. Cardinals finish out the rest of the season with losses. Marlins too.
Do you punish teams found to have broken protocol which did not result in an outbreak? Or is outcome a deciding factor? It’s not a gotcha question. I want to understand your proposal.
 

EvilEmpire

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I think this is probably right. All he can really do at this point is make a strong threat.
Yeah. The threat isn't worth anything unless he knows there is still a buffer and some time left for him to play with.


I still think they're going to try to add some games to the scheduled end of the season and bubble it up someplace warm for the playoffs. If not that, something big is going to change. Maybe he's trying to create favorable negotiating ground with the MLBPA. Credible threat of ending the season plus news reporting about players messing around probably doesn't hurt follow on negotiations.
 

Average Reds

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Lol ok, I’m dying on the hill. Sure. Everyone that goes to a strip club is a degenerate from Animal House and everyone is hammered. It’s basically Bacchanalia.
Your defensiveness on this subject is bizarre.

The vast majority of folks here are not making moral judgements about where players go. So how about we discuss the topic at hand and not have you lecture us on strip clubs?
 

8slim

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Hundreds of millions of dollars are at stake. Cancel the season now and the league is going to owe a massive additional rebate to their media partners and cable TV operators. Manfred is going to keep this thing in play until there are multiple teams who essentially run out of healthy players.
 

Danny_Darwin

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Are they not thoroughly disinfecting clubhouses after away teams go through? That should be standard operating procedure but considering how crappy the planning was is that not happening?
I mean, you’d rather have the place clean than not, but my understanding is that surface transmission is rare and “deep cleaning” is more for theater than anything. The bigger issue is probably staff, not sure how many people work in the average MLB visitors clubhouse, but they should all test/quarantine.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Dec 4, 2005
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Your defensiveness on this subject is bizarre.

The vast majority of folks here are not making moral judgements about where players go. So how about we discuss the topic at hand and not have you lecture us on strip clubs?
Not lecturing or defensive - I could give a shit, as noted I haven’t been in one in a decade - pointing out a simple hypocrisy. You can take it as you will. Meanwhile can we get a list of generalizations and stereotypes that are allowed or not? We’re supposed to be woke right?
You or anyone else can PM me if they have issue. I’m fucking done so don’t worry, you guys slut shame away.
 

mauf

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Lol, don’t assume you know where I’ve been champ. I’ve been in strip clubs in:
Salisbury mass
Saugus
Boston (proper)
NYC
NJ burbs
Philly
DC
VA burbs
Charkotte
Myrtle
Charleston
Atlanta
Miami
Chicago
Pittsburgh
Cleveland
St Louis (not east)
Denver
Seattle
Vegas
And multiple cities in California. LA, SD, SF, Sacramento.
Oh, I flew a prop plane from Seattle to Spokane and we went to one.
Of those I’d put Miami and Myrtle as the only places I could catch a virus and it’s cause I got a lap dance. Maybe I should have paid more.
This is what “I’ve Been Everywhere” would’ve sounded like if Johnny Cash had been a perv. :)
 

CR67dream

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Not lecturing or defensive - I could give a shit, as noted I haven’t been in one in a decade - pointing out a simple hypocrisy. You can take it as you will. Meanwhile can we get a list of generalizations and stereotypes that are allowed or not? We’re supposed to be woke right?
You or anyone else can PM me if they have issue. I’m fucking done so don’t worry, you guys slut shame away.
Slut shame? This is bizarre and ridiculous.

In response to your claims it has been stated over and over and over and over that it's about the risk involved in a club-like atmosphere and not the entertainment within. The players are idiots, the dancers are just trying to make a living. No one has said otherwise. Case closed. End of conversation.
 

InsideTheParker

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The NYT has a cute piece on the new rules for the Covid-shortened season. I thought this was nice:
ROJAS RULE: There will be new protocols for deciding whether teams can play games because of the coronavirus. Final decisions will now go to Marlins shortstop Miguel Rojas, who will make the ruling. Rojas is also the designated relief bus driver for Covid Coaches that take infected teams that were on road trips back to their home city.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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E-Rod is done for the season, so now we have a player officially missing the season directly because of COVID. Will that at all sway the decision making going forward? Hopefully it does for the players and their behaviors, if the threat of ending the season isn't enough.
 

Gdiguy

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I'm kind of confused by that attitude

Like - first of all, can't he still opt-out? If you don't feel it's safe, opt out. I have much more sympathy for the 'essential' workers who will actually be terminated if they refuse to work (a lot of chatter in the academic faculty twitter-verse today about an ASU professor that had to keep teaching in-person classes through April, and passed away yesterday after a 3 month battle with covid)

But moreover - at some point the players have to take leadership in policing this, not MLB. MLB can have the best testing possible, but if multiple players are going out as a group wherever, getting outbreaks is a 'when' not 'if' question; the testing just lets you identify them earlier.

MLB probably should have more oversight because it's true that if the Dodgers are doing things properly but the Marlins aren't, eventually it'll spread to other teams... but MLB players aren't high schoolers, the reason they have a union is to protect the players, the union should be ballistic about what the Marlins (and reportedly Cardinals) did
 

Soxy

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I wasn't always sure how to properly weigh the incompetence of MLB when considering the possibility of the season shutting down prematurely. Would it make it more likely they shut everything down, because they clearly have no idea what they're doing and have no plan besides, "we'll make it up as we go?" Or would it be less likely, because the plan (if you can call it that) is really just to plunge headfirst into the abyss and not look back?

Manfred and the owners are clearly taking door number two. What's less certain is how long the players will continue going with them.
 

nolasoxfan

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Is the Commissioner the one risking his future health? If not, what does his personal philosophy have to do with endangering others? (Not that the player's union isn't totally complicit in this.)
He sure isn’t. I’d like to say I’m surprised by the greed and tone-deafness, but I am most assuredly not.
 
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YTF

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I'm kind of confused by that attitude

Like - first of all, can't he still opt-out? If you don't feel it's safe, opt out. I have much more sympathy for the 'essential' workers who will actually be terminated if they refuse to work (a lot of chatter in the academic faculty twitter-verse today about an ASU professor that had to keep teaching in-person classes through April, and passed away yesterday after a 3 month battle with covid)


But moreover - at some point the players have to take leadership in policing this, not MLB. MLB can have the best testing possible, but if multiple players are going out as a group wherever, getting outbreaks is a 'when' not 'if' question; the testing just lets you identify them earlier.

MLB probably should have more oversight because it's true that if the Dodgers are doing things properly but the Marlins aren't, eventually it'll spread to other teams... but MLB players aren't high schoolers, the reason they have a union is to protect the players, the union should be ballistic about what the Marlins (and reportedly Cardinals) did
Your 100% spot on, but that wasn't the question JBJ was asked. He was asked about MLB shutting the season down.
 

E5 Yaz

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E-Rod is done for the season, so now we have a player officially missing the season directly because of COVID. Will that at all sway the decision making going forward? Hopefully it does for the players and their behaviors, if the threat of ending the season isn't enough.
Not just that. Missing the season because of a heart condition caused by COVID19. Wonder if it might at least cause more opt outs.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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You would think that it should cause at least a few. On the flip side some will surely see this as a one off.
It might be hard to distinguish players opting out due to E-Rod's situation versus reaction to the Marlins & Cardinals situation. Lorenzo Cain opting out today, for example, is most likely due the Cardinals situation hitting home for he and his Brewers teammates (who sit idle this weekend thanks to the Cards). But that kind of decision could have been prompted by E-Rod as well.
 

YTF

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It might be hard to distinguish players opting out due to E-Rod's situation versus reaction to the Marlins & Cardinals situation. Lorenzo Cain opting out today, for example, is most likely due the Cardinals situation hitting home for he and his Brewers teammates (who sit idle this weekend thanks to the Cards). But that kind of decision could have been prompted by E-Rod as well.
Kenley Jansen comes to mind as one who might opt out due to Rodriquez's situation.
 

tc1072

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Jan 22, 2017
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iIt doesn't help that most of these guys (outside of all of the coaches/managers) are not wearing masks, and the few that are have them down around their mouths and not covering their noses and just look ridiculous (looking at you Verdugo and Lin). Add in the constant supposedly "banned" spitting we're seeing on TV, I don't see this season making it...
 

tc1072

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Jan 22, 2017
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Think he's trying to say we got caught with our pants down breaking protocol going to a casino, and are now outraged that people are actually looking into it (contact tracing)...