Creating New Advanced Stats - A Discussion

Zososoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 30, 2009
9,245
South of North
[SIZE=medium]I've looked into advanced stats a little and at the risk of sounding arrogant, I think there may be better ways to statistically analyze hockey games. I've been thinking about this a lot in the past couple of months, so I would like to hear what you more knowledgeable fellows think of these ideas.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]Instead of going into painstaking detail, I want to first layout the concepts I’ve been bouncing around and maybe start a conversation if this makes sense to people. My basic premise is that hockey could be more effectively analyzed through the prism of offensive zone possessions (OZP). The stat would not try to divorce offense from defense—hockey is entirely too fluid for such a baseball-like analysis. In theory, you would capture this data for a team’s OZP, as well as capturing how their opponents are performing against them, or Defensive Zone Possessions (DZP). Obviously many factors influence the effectiveness of an OZP, but the two I want to discuss are Zonal Order of Entry (ZOE) and Method of Entry [insert joke here] (MOE). I choose these 2 because I think they are potentially quantifiable and I think they would have predictive value if you could actually capture this data. [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]ZOE would seek to capture the order of the first few skaters into the offensive zone establishing an OZP. The reason I think this type of analysis is important might be better illustrated by way of example. [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]Scenario 1 – 1 skater on Team X is on a breakaway and is the first player on either Team X or Team Y to enter Team X’s offensive zone (for clarity this is Team Y’s defensive zone). Now that Team X has established an OZP, a second player on Team X is the next player on either team into the zone. For clarity, Team X now has a ‘2 on 0’ breakaway. The probability of a goal on this OZP should be relatively high.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]Scenario 2 – 1 skater on Team X is on a breakaway and is the first player on either team into the zone. However, in this scenario, a defender on Team Y is the second player on either team into the zone. The third player into the zone is a second forward from Team X. This is still a very high quality opportunity, but should have a lower probability of scoring than Scenario 1.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]Scenario 3 – Now imagine that a defender from Team Y is the first player on either team in the zone, but a skater from Team X then carries the puck into the zone. Following the Team X player with the puck, another player from Team X is the third player in.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]Scenario 4 – A defender from Team Y is the first player from either team in the zone, then a player from Team X carries the puck into the zone. This time, a second defender from Team Y is the third player in the zone.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]We can abbreviate the above 4 scenarios as follows:[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]X-X-Y[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]X-Y-X[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Y-X-X[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Y-X-Y[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]I think you’re starting to get the picture, but just to be thorough, I’ll give one more example.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]Scenario 5 – 2 defenders from Team Y are in position and are the first two players from either team in the zone, then a forward from Team X carries in. This would be represented as “Y-Y-X”.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]There are 10 non-goalie skaters on the ice at any given time, but I think that the 8th, 9th[/SIZE], and 10[SIZE=small]th[/SIZE] skaters to make it into the zone likely don’t have predictive value. In fact, the 7[SIZE=small]th[/SIZE] or maybe even the 6[SIZE=small]th[/SIZE] player into the zone doesn’t even matter that much. In other words, a ‘4 on 2’ and ‘3 on 1’ are scoring opportunities with potentially substantially higher statistically probabilities of ending in a successful OZP. Once you get to ‘4 on 4’ though, I’d be surprised if it mattered much. Let’s just be clear that this system would be difficult to maintain. Taking the seemingly simple situation of a ‘3 on 1’ break, the permutations could include:
 
[SIZE=medium]Y-X-X-X[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]X-Y-X-X     [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]X-X-Y-X [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]Instead of going into more detail on ZOE, which you probably are already poking holes through, allow me to move onto MOE.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]As I see it, there are 3 main ways a team can get the puck into the offensive zone: 1) carry it in (C), 2) connect on a pass to a teammate (P), or 3) dump it in (DI). I would classify the difference between a P and a DI as whether a player on Team X other than the passer touches the puck in the zone first (P) or whether a defender from Team Y does (DI). There may be a need for other categories, such as shots or plays along the board, but I digress. I think this is an important characteristic of an OZP because I would image that an OZP beginning with a player from Team X carrying the puck into the zone (a ‘C-OZP’) has a higher probability of success  than an OZP started with a pass (a ‘P-OZP’), which in turn may have a higher probability of success than an OZP started with a DI (a ‘DI-OZP’). Because I think it's for another discussion, let's assume that a successful possession should include a shot, and a higher value given for OZPs ending in goals.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]Combining these 2 metrics, I think a clearer picture would emerge as to what strategies are most effective, but it would also, at the least, show what type of strategy a team is employing. Generally, I'd want to know if C-OZPs result in more goals than DI-OZPs. More narrowly, I would guess that the Bruins have more DI-OZP than most teams. There’s a lot of interesting numbers you could crunch from this data. One example would be what percentage of a team’s OZPs are C-OZPs vs. P-OZPs vs. DI-OZPs. It may make more sense to have these stats separately at first, but if you could combine them to assign a value of a probability of success on each OZP, I think you could find some really interesting patterns potentially. Moreover, if a team is susceptible to DI-DZP because of having an undersized defense, the data may bear that out.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]I acknowledge that there are problems with these metrics. For instance, the ZOE may be difficult to assess—many times, there’s just 3 guys (in some combination from both teams) steaming into the zone. But, I’ll let you guys hash that out if you so choose. [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]Instead of going further, I’ll just post this now and see what you all think of this. I know I’m kind of all over the place, but hopefully you see what I’m thinking and we can have an interesting discussion about how to look at the game.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=medium]PS – this is what happens when you watch 15 days in a row of world cup soccer, then have a day off.[/SIZE]
 

Blacken

Robespierre in a Cape
SoSH Member
Jul 24, 2007
12,152
Details would be talking outside of school, but this doesn't sound unlike what I've heard being used now by some of the more advanced hockey metrics guys.
 

Dummy Hoy

Angry Pissbum
SoSH Member
Jul 22, 2006
8,250
Falmouth
That was a well done piece. I don't find McIndoe to be that funny (his joke seem too laid out and predictable), but he is a good writer and he knows the game. I think perhaps the most useful points he makes are that 1. no one (that isn't an idiot) thinks that stats can be the whole story in a game as fluid as hockey, and that 2. none of these stats do a good job (on an individual basis) of giving you a complete picture of the player, such as WAR does in baseball (although I personally don't like how much people rely on WAR or any other 'total rating' stat).
 
When I coach (high school), I've had my players in the stands track a bunch of different things to see what can be telling and what these kids are capable of getting. I haven't really settled on anything other than shot location/quality, but I'm always looking. 
 

cshea

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 15, 2006
36,254
306, row 14
I think zone entries is going to be a fascinating new study in hockey. It is a tedious process without the player tracking technology, but the results should be fascinating. How effective is the dump and chase as a strategy? Is carrying the puck over the blue line a better way to go? Which defenseman are more vulnerable to the dump and chase than they are when teams carry the puck across the blue line? There is so much that can be learned, both in evaluating individual where and teams as a whole.
 

Dummy Hoy

Angry Pissbum
SoSH Member
Jul 22, 2006
8,250
Falmouth
I tried to track that (big supporter of puck possession here) and tedious wasn't the issue as much as asking high school kids to do too much. They could note which of my lines was carrying v. dumping, but to ask them to track the other team too was a bit much.
 
Essentially your point is correct though- the new tracking technology will kick ass.
 

cshea

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 15, 2006
36,254
306, row 14
Horrifying news today as Extra Skater has been taken offline. No idea where he has landed, but that was my go-to for the advanced stats.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
54,235

Dummy Hoy

Angry Pissbum
SoSH Member
Jul 22, 2006
8,250
Falmouth
Wasn't quite sure where to put this, but it wouldn't hurt to give this thread a bump anyways.
 
Justin Bourne (I've been pimping him everywhere recently) has a nice look at using context when considering +/-. Obviously for anyone who is into advanced hockey statistics this seems old news, but I thought he presented it well (good writer for a non-Dryden hockey player) and made the finishing blow by showing the lines as teams instead of players.
 
 
Frisbetarian said:
Here's a cool intro to advanced hockey stats article by David Johnson, the owner of HockeyStatsAnalysis
 
I just started following his shit. Should have done it a lot earlier.
 

Frisbetarian

♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫
Moderator
SoSH Member
Dec 3, 2003
5,274
Off the beaten track
I have a question concerning relative stats. First, I should explain how relative stats work just in case anyone is unfamiliar. If a player, for example, is + 15 when looking at Corsi plus - Corsi minus, and his team without him on the ice is +10, he would be +5 Corsi. Does that make sense? I've had a tequila (Corazon), so I hope so.
 
Let's suppose we were looking for offense for our team, and we decided Fenwick was the metric we trusted and wanted to use to find a good offensive player. We see 2 players, A and B, who we are interested in. Player A is on a high scoring team. Let's say the league average Fenwick For per 20 minutes is 100 (an easy number for the sake of this discussion). Player A is an above average offensive player at 110, but his team without him on the ice is 120, making him a negative 10 Fenwick Relative offensive player. Player B, otoh, is below average, at 90, but his team sucks and without him they are 80. He is a +10 Fenwick Relative offensive player. 
 
Who would you want for your team, and why? 
 

Dummy Hoy

Angry Pissbum
SoSH Member
Jul 22, 2006
8,250
Falmouth
Frisbetarian said:
I have a question concerning relative stats. First, I should explain how relative stats work just in case anyone is unfamiliar. If a player, for example, is + 15 when looking at Corsi plus - Corsi minus, and his team without him on the ice is +10, he would be +5 Corsi. Does that make sense? I've had a tequila (Corazon), so I hope so.
 
Let's suppose we were looking for offense for our team, and we decided Fenwick was the metric we trusted and wanted to use to find a good offensive player. We see 2 players, A and B, who we are interested in. Player A is on a high scoring team. Let's say the league average Fenwick For per 20 minutes is 100 (an easy number for the sake of this discussion). Player A is an above average offensive player at 110, but his team without him on the ice is 120, making him a negative 10 Fenwick Relative offensive player. Player B, otoh, is below average, at 90, but his team sucks and without him they are 80. He is a +10 Fenwick Relative offensive player. 
 
Who would you want for your team, and why? 
 
I think I need to drink tequila (enjoying Porter and Cider, but may have to break into the tequila) to fully understand you here, but taking a stab at it...
 
Problem here is you may be talking about someone who plays up when playing with better teammates, or you may be describing someone along for the ride. Same thing with the inverse- do you have a player who is playing with shitty players so they are forced to be a more offensive player even though that may not be their game? I still struggle to fully understand individual advance metrics in hockey- I think players may be too intertwined for accurate measurement. Although (this may be your point), relative stats may be the best way to do it.
 
I take the guy with the lower overall numbers and the better relative numbers. At lower levels, guys can pad their stats on shitty teams b/c you're carrying more of a load and getting more chances (OZ starts, PP, whatnot). At the NHL level, just about everyone can play (non-John Scott division), so I think the guy who is producing with lesser talent (and is also probably being keyed on), is probably the better bet than the guy who is getting positive possession stats (or points or +/- or whatever) playing with superior players ( Hey there Chris Kunitz!).
 
Did any of that make sense? (off for the tequila bottle)
 

Red Right Ankle

Formerly the Story of Your Red Right Ankle
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
12,004
Multivac
DH notes the "rising tide lifts all boats" or "1992 Rick Tocchet" scenario.  It is also, I suppose, theoretically possible that the 110 player is good but on a great team and just isn't as good as his teammates.  Like a Glenn Anderson vs. Gretzky/Messier/Kurri situation. Also possible that he's being used in more defensive situations and that is depressing his relative numbers.
 
The 90 player could be the best player on a shitty team, but he still could be a bad bet to produce on your team as his coach might be using him in more offensive situations in order to maximize the offense the team gets from him or his teammates could just really suck, e.g., Matt Moulson this year has a 1.9% FF relative, but his FF% is just 36%!  He's been garbage, but the Sabres as a group are a floating island of rancid medical waste that's covered in fire and screaming penguins, so he looks OK in comparison.
 
On the other hand, our theoretical 90 player could be the only good player on his team (or on his lines) and playing with better teammates would free him up to elevate his game. Probably, given Moulson's past performances, he'd be better on a team that didn't suck.
 
[SIZE=13.63636302948px]I think, as DH points out, you really need to learn more about how each player is used and who their linemates are to make FF useful and even if you combine it with Zone Start, QualComp and QualTeammate measures, you still have a ton of noise because the approximations used to measure the latter two (ice time relative to teammates usually) aren't close to perfect either.[/SIZE]
 
Gun to my head, I agree with the angry pissbum (if only to not get peed on).  I think it's much more likely that you've got a good player on a bad team who would elevate his possession game with better teammates.
 

Frisbetarian

♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫
Moderator
SoSH Member
Dec 3, 2003
5,274
Off the beaten track
Good points about player usage, guys. Let's say both players are left wings starting on the 3rd line for their respective teams, and their zone starts are similar. Player A with the higher absolute Fenwick Plus number has better teammates, which is, to some degree, reflected in the relative number (there is no way to accurately determine value of teammates in most situations, as the forward lines play together a majority of the time making a with or without you analysis impossible). Because there are both 3rd line players, the quality of their competition is similar. 
 
Does that change which player you take?
 

Dummy Hoy

Angry Pissbum
SoSH Member
Jul 22, 2006
8,250
Falmouth
What is Fenwick Plus?
 
With this exercise, I think we're at the point where scouting and stats overlap...you're talking about players that given the inverse discrepancy between their absolute and relative numbers appear to be fairly equal. Given that, I'd talk to coaches/scouts/players about their thoughts. The stats may be pretty useful for getting me to recognize that that player on the shitty team is good while the other player may be along for the ride, but when things are that close, I'll bring in the eyeball test.
 
Also worth recognizing is that teams don't really have 1st/2nd/3rd/4th lines per se...the best way to look at it is probably ice time, but coaches will use certain lines in certain situations, regardless of their ice time. One team's "3rd line" might be used heavily in DZ starts, while another team may use their "2nd" line in DZ starts. Especially in the regular season, teams don't match lines much- they match D to opposing lines.
 
This advanced stat stuff is fascinating, but seems a bit above my head. I know the game from the ice and from behind the bench, but I would defer to guys with pocket protectors on a lot of these numbers. While I remain somewhat skeptical of the absoluteness of some of the stats, I do think there's a lot of good stuff to be gleaned and am always curious to see what I can use at the high school level.
 

cshea

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 15, 2006
36,254
306, row 14
Dummy Hoy said:
This advanced stat stuff is fascinating, but seems a bit above my head. I know the game from the ice and from behind the bench, but I would defer to guys with pocket protectors on a lot of these numbers. While I remain somewhat skeptical of the absoluteness of some of the stats, I do think there's a lot of good stuff to be gleaned and am always curious to see what I can use at the high school level.
I'm a big believer in analytics, but I think this is one area that needs to be developed. Analytics are great for a front office doing player evaluations, but how can coaches apply analytics to improve their team on the ice? Right now, analytics are useful in determining matchups and player usage. The disconnect between analytics and coaches is this- If a player or team has a lousy Corsi/Fenwick percentage, how can you coach them to improve it? Tactically, how do you take a bad Corsi/Fenwick team and make it a good one?

Zone entries are starting to be analyzed now. Maybe when they get a good sample size of data, that will help coaching staffs to develop better game plans and strategies. I do think, for now, there is a bit of a gap between coaches/players and analytics.
 

Frisbetarian

♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫
Moderator
SoSH Member
Dec 3, 2003
5,274
Off the beaten track
Fenwick Plus was referring to the offensive portion of the stat, as we were looking for a scorer in this example.
 
I should probably give a brief explanation of Corsi and Fenwick stats here. as well, in case anyone is unfamiliar. Corsi looks at all shots toward the goal when a player is on the ice, both for and against, and includes shots on goal, blocked shots and missed shots. The theory behind this stat is that using all shots should correlate to possession, and the more possession you have the more successful you will be. Fenwick is very similar, but does not include blocked shots, thinking these are more of a defensive skill. For example, suppose a player was on the ice for 1000 minutes and his team had 500 shots on goal, 150 missed shots, and 100 shots blocked. The opposition, again while the player was on the ice, had 450 shots on goal, 125 missed shots, and had 75 shots blocked. His Corsi total would be 500 + 150 + 100 =750 for and 450 +125 +75 = 650 against, for a total of +100. Making that a rate stat so he can more easily compared to other players, his team had 15 shots per 20 minutes and allowed 13 shots per 20, making him +2 per 20 minutes. With Fenwick he would be +650 a and -575 for a total of +75 and a per 20 of +13 and -11.5 for a total of +1.5 per 20 minutes. 
 
Fenwick and Corsi are often given as rate stats, using the offensive component divided by the total of the offensive and defensive components. Thus, in the example above, the player would be at 53.6% Corsi and 53.1% Fenwick, and anything over 50% is positive. Fenwick correlates slightly better to team success/goals for and against, but Corsi has a larger sample size, which some analysts like. Finally, Relative Fenwick and Corsi refer to the difference between the player's stats and how the team does when he is not on the ice. 
 
In my example I wanted to just look at a fictional Fenwick for (i.e., only the offensive numbers), compared to league average and relative to team so we could find which player might help the team best with their scoring difficulties. I wanted to assume the players face similar competition and have similar zone starts - they are used the same way. I tend to agree that the difference between my fictional players may be best determined by scouts and coaches, and also want to make it clear that I am not a huge fan of either Corsi or Fenwick and do believe that a good set of eyes trumps bad data or small sample size every time. But if we suppose the Fenwick in my example is something the team trusts, I would still be interested in hearing what other folks think of the difference between my two fictional players supposing they are used in similar fashion and play against the same level of opponent. 
 

Red Right Ankle

Formerly the Story of Your Red Right Ankle
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
12,004
Multivac
If I'm reading you right and you're saying that the 110 guy and the 90 guy have equivalent zone starts and competition but the 110 guy is playing with better teammates, I'd probably still bet on the 90 player on the "more with less" principle and because the relative is probably a better indicator of true talent level than the absolute.  For example, Seguin has a much lower absolute numbers in Dallas than he did his last year here in Boston (52-53 vs. 59-60), but is still putting up pretty good relative FF numbers and his production has been good in both locations.
 

behindthepen

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
6,236
Section 41
Fris - I think the short answer to your hypothetical question is that you want Player A.  He's better relative to the league, and that's what matters.
 
The tough part is, in scanning some of the 13-14 season data, it's hard to imagine a 3rd line player that rates better than his team.  The weak scoring teams tend to be weak top to bottom, i.e, their first line is above league average, but below average for top lines, and the rest of the team falls out below average line by line.  Anyone that was above average on the team would migrate up the lines pretty quickly in most systems.
 
The more difficult thing is understanding what creates the scoring difficulties.  As I thought about this, there are several ways to add value in the offensive zone:
-shooting the puck
-passing the puck
-possessing the puck
-creating turnovers/forechecking
-screening the goalie.
 
and that's just in the offensive zone.  Obviously breaking the puck out and zone entry are precursors to that.  There should definitely be a stat for wingers for being able to get the puck out of the zone on your boards.
 
So the question of improving your team is, whats the primary weakness?  Is it plain shooting, or getting OZ time?  I think you have to understand that to narrow down your targets.
 

Dummy Hoy

Angry Pissbum
SoSH Member
Jul 22, 2006
8,250
Falmouth
behindthepen said:
Fris - I think the short answer to your hypothetical question is that you want Player A.  He's better relative to the league, and that's what matters.
 
The tough part is, in scanning some of the 13-14 season data, it's hard to imagine a 3rd line player that rates better than his team.  The weak scoring teams tend to be weak top to bottom, i.e, their first line is above league average, but below average for top lines, and the rest of the team falls out below average line by line.  Anyone that was above average on the team would migrate up the lines pretty quickly in most systems.
 
The more difficult thing is understanding what creates the scoring difficulties.  As I thought about this, there are several ways to add value in the offensive zone:
-shooting the puck
-passing the puck
-possessing the puck
-creating turnovers/forechecking
-screening the goalie.
 
and that's just in the offensive zone.  Obviously breaking the puck out and zone entry are precursors to that.  There should definitely be a stat for wingers for being able to get the puck out of the zone on your boards.
 
So the question of improving your team is, whats the primary weakness?  Is it plain shooting, or getting OZ time?  I think you have to understand that to narrow down your targets.
 
But isn't it a good chance that player A relatively better than the league because he's playing with much better players? Guys who can put the puck on his stick, draw attention, create space, etc.
 
I love the rest of your points...the only thing I would add is keeping the puck in the OZ, although perhaps that would be a 'turnover'.
 
On the drive home today I was thinking about how to use stats to inform/improve breakouts.
 

Frisbetarian

♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫ ♫
Moderator
SoSH Member
Dec 3, 2003
5,274
Off the beaten track
Thanks for the responses, guys - good stuff. 
 
BTP - ignore the 3rd line stuff, I just tossed that in there in order to show similar quality of competition. Also, I understand there are different ways to provide offense, but for the sake of this argument I just wanted to get folks opinion on the value of absolute vs. relative stats. I think it's important to look at a player's team (relative) numbers, but wonder if at times using relative stats does not overstate a player's value on a weak club when compared to a player on a strong team.
 
Let's suppose we knew that 100 of a FenCorsi stat (FC) was equal to 1 goal. When DH is on the ice his team has 60 offensive FC and 80 defensive FC per 20 minutes, for a total of -20 FC/20, or 42.9%. When DH is not on the ice, his team has 50 offensive FC and 90 defensive FC per 20 minutes, a total of -40, or 35.7%. Even though his team is outscored by 2/10 of a goal every 20 minutes he is on the ice, he would be considered a +20 FC Relative. Now suppose TSYRRA had 80 on offense and 60 on defense per 20 when he is on the ice, which is +20 or 57.1% FC, and his team is 90 offense and 60 defense when he is not on the ice (+30, 60.0%). TSYRRA is a -10 FC Relative to team, and according to the Team Relative stat he is 30 FC, or 3/10 of a goal worse than DH every 20 minutes he is on the ice. This despite the fact his team scores 2/10 more goals and allows 2/10 less when he is on the ice compared to when DH is on the ice. In this example, the difference between the absolute and the relative is 7/10 of a goal per 20 minutes.
 
I don't think that's right. In fact, although I go back and forth, I tend to agree with BTP that the better absolute player is probably really better. I certainly don't think he's as much worse as the stats in the example above say he is. 
 

behindthepen

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
6,236
Section 41
the problem with the example is that Corsi and Fenwick aren't really player stats, they really reflect the sum of the 5 guys on the ice.  (EDIT:  has anyone looked at the distributions of F/C player scores by team?  it could be that the standard deviation of Fenwick and Corsi are the same for every team relative to the team average)
 
And the Seguin example really points to that.  If you look at http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/ratings.php?disp=1&db=201213&sit=5v5&pos=forwards&minutes=200&teamid=0&type=fenwick&sort=F60&sortdir=DESC
the 2012-13, Forwards only, sorted by FF60 (Fenwick For/60 minutes), the top 3 players in the league were Bergeron, Marchand and Seguin.
 
Obviously the value of this exercise is to be able to find the player who is undervalued because he plays on a crappy team.  Puckalytics (the spawn of stats.hockey) has a filter that may show you those players that fit "DH"'s description.  It's just not working on my mac right now.
 

behindthepen

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
6,236
Section 41
Dummy Hoy said:
 
 
On the drive home today I was thinking about how to use stats to inform/improve breakouts.
there must be a way to measure when players get out of position in the D zone.  
And also what percentage of D-man's passes are completed.
 

Red Right Ankle

Formerly the Story of Your Red Right Ankle
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
12,004
Multivac
Yeah, hockey's basically fast-moving geometry, so a puck-tracking system plus a player motion-tracking system that calculates "best" angles as the puck moves around the ice might help tell a team an awful lot about how good a player's offensive and defensive positioning is.
 

behindthepen

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
6,236
Section 41

cshea

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 15, 2006
36,254
306, row 14
Shinzawa had a nice section on the future of analytics in today's hockey notes column. The short version is once teams get up and running with player tracking, the stats we're using now like Corsi and Fenwick will end up in the trash. Very interesting stuff coming down the pipe, the possibilities are endless. 
 
http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2014/11/30/data-driving-nhl-into-next-generation/rhGFOZZf8DwuwoExCOGN9O/story.html?event=event25
 
The next wave of intelligence will result in a revolution: stuff that could change the game.
GMs could refuse to draft goalies in the first round because of the glut at the position. Coaches could station defensemen on their weak sides in the offensive zone to maximize one-timers. Teams could play with four forwards and one defenseman in five-on-five play. Michael Schuckers, associate professor of statistics at St. Lawrence University, thinks players such as Dustin Byfuglien who play forward and defense will be in demand because of their roster and strategic flexibility.
“It may be something so drastic that no one’s even thinking about it,” Siegel said. “Maybe you have one defenseman, a midfielder, and three forwards. I don’t know what the results will be. But once the information gets here, not only will it make it more evident, but it will give teams the ability to experiment and have data to back it up. Who’s going to have the guts to experiment? We’ll find these things out.”