Daniel Bard had Thoracic Outlet Syndrome

[Snodgrass'Muff]

I was listening to Rob Bradford's podcast on the way to work this morning and he had Daniel Bard on to talk about his career. He mentioned that he had undergone surgery for Thoracic Outlet Syndrome and that was the first time I can recall hearing that. Apparently it was subtle at first, a minor compression of the nerve bundle in the shoulder, which affected his command and control first, then his velocity as the issue worsened.

Here's a link from the Globe back in 2015 that mentions it as well: https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/01/11/red-sox-setup-man-daniel-bard-healthy-ready-bounce-back/y5xTS7WIA6kIKGBL3YHSzK/story.html

I figured people would be interested to know that there apparently is an answer for the sudden loss of "it" in late 2011 and then fully in 2012, and it likely had nothing to do with moving him to the rotation.

It's also a cautionary tale for those expecting/hoping for Thornburg to get back to being the guy they traded for this year now that he's had the surgery. This affliction can be a career killer.

 

[Minneapolis Millers]

Thanks, Snod. I hadn't seen that, or any definitive explanation for what happened to Bard. He had so much promise...

I took my son to a spring training game in 2011 and he got a ball signed by Francona and Bard. We were pretty psyched.

I don't even know where that ball is today.

 

[SouthernBoSox]

I thought we had the best relief pitcher in the game locked up for half a decade. Extremely sad what happened to him. He was so much fun to watch those 2 years when he had it together.

 

[Saints Rest]

I thought we had the best relief pitcher in the game locked up for half a decade. Extremely sad what happened to him. He was so much fun to watch those 2 years when he had it together.

I remember watching him on TV with my college roommate (who was a pretty good D-1 college pitcher before he blew out his elbow). Bard had one of those sequences where it was 100, 102, 99, killer curve ball, for a strikeout. My friend just marveled at how that curve made Bard completely unfair to a hitter who had to attempt to gear up for that hear. He also marveled at how Bard looked like he was just playing soft-toss (compare that to Kimbrel or Chapman who both look like they will throw HEAT just from watching their motions pre-release).

 

[edoug]

I was listening to Rob Bradford's podcast on the way to work this morning and he had Daniel Bard on to talk about his career. He mentioned that he had undergone surgery for Thoracic Outlet Syndrome and that was the first time I can recall hearing that. Apparently it was subtle at first, a minor compression of the nerve bundle in the shoulder, which affected his command and control first, then his velocity as the issue worsened.

Here's a link from the Globe back in 2015 that mentions it as well: https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2015/01/11/red-sox-setup-man-daniel-bard-healthy-ready-bounce-back/y5xTS7WIA6kIKGBL3YHSzK/story.html

I figured people would be interested to know that there apparently is an answer for the sudden loss of "it" in late 2011 and then fully in 2012, and it likely had nothing to do with moving him to the rotation.

It's also a cautionary tale for those expecting/hoping for Thornburg to get back to being the guy they traded for this year now that he's had the surgery. This affliction can be a career killer.

Yeah, for Thornborg It's not very encouraging. There are so many could've been stories in baseball and in sports in general. Bard is just another case. No crying for him though, not that this was your intention for posting. He did have his moments.

 

[tonyarmasjr]

I've never been able to wrap my mind around how much that pitch runs arm-side at 99 mph...

 

[Snodgrass'Muff]

I've never been able to wrap my mind around how much that pitch runs arm-side at 99 mph...

The Swisher strikeout? He talks about it in the podcast. Very good listen if anyone is looking to kill 40 minutes, actually.

 

[brandonchristensen]

That Swisher K was insane. I remember thinking the same about Lowe to Jermaine Dye in the ALDS...only there was a 10mph difference.

 

[burstnbloom]

I've never been able to wrap my mind around how much that pitch runs arm-side at 99 mph...

That pitch moved 14" horizontally. It might be the dirtiest pitch ever thrown. It's a shame that he flamed out.

 

[OCST]

A different sport, but bear with me.

I'm a fan of Everton in the English Premier League. Everton just sold a player named Ross Barkley to Chelsea for a fraction of what he might have gone for a year ago. Part of the price drop is due to injury, but there is also a pervasive sense that Barkley, who came up through Everton's youth academy with great expectations, might be on the verge of flaming out. This is a paragraph from a recent story discussing his prospects for England's international squad, on the verge of the 2018 World Cup:

In his last seven call-ups he has been an unused substitute and if he is not careful that is threatening to be the story of his international career – a nearly man, a player who stayed too young too long, never quite fulfilling his potential or showing he can dominate, rather than decorate, matches.

The bolded is absolutely brutal. "Nearly man." When I read it I thought of Bard specifically and a few others who never made it past "prospect."

Notwithstanding the implications for Thornburg, I'm almost glad to hear of Bard's issue, because I remember being afraid at the time that his usage under Valentine had damaged his arm. Or because it would suck if he just lost it one day and couldn't get it back for whatever reason. An injury is cause for regret also, but a little less cruel IMO.

I don't remember that Swisher AB. That pitch is filthy.

 

[Plympton91]

I thought we'd discussed Bard's battle with Thoracic Outlet Syndrome on here a lot before.

This is indeed a cautionary tale for anyone who thinks that Thornberg is going to be an asset in the majors at all this year, let alone anything like the top set up man that they thought they traded for. I am really surprised that, given their self-imposed budget constraints, they didn't nontender him actually, given the track record of people not returning from this injury. Seems like good money after bad. Just wishcasting in search of a return from a trade that was terrible on its face, abstracting from the bad luck that followed Thornberg here.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I thought we'd discussed Bard's battle with Thoracic Outlet Syndrome on here a lot before.

This is indeed a cautionary tale for anyone who thinks that Thornberg is going to be an asset in the majors at all this year, let alone anything like the top set up man that they thought they traded for. I am really surprised that, given their self-imposed budget constraints, they didn't nontender him actually, given the track record of people not returning from this injury. Seems like good money after bad. Just wishcasting in search of a return from a trade that was terrible on its face, abstracting from the bad luck that followed Thornberg here.

Maybe, but he doesn't exactly cost a lot.

Bard was odd in that he completely lost it, gained it back, and then lost it again.

edit: I remember his first pro season well. I'm still amazed he had a Major League career. 75 innings, 76 hits, 78 walks, 47 strikeouts as a 22 year old in A ball. He was a train wreck.

 

[Coachster]

I thought we'd discussed Bard's battle with Thoracic Outlet Syndrome on here a lot before.

This is indeed a cautionary tale for anyone who thinks that Thornberg is going to be an asset in the majors at all this year, let alone anything like the top set up man that they thought they traded for. I am really surprised that, given their self-imposed budget constraints, they didn't nontender him actually, given the track record of people not returning from this injury. Seems like good money after bad. Just wishcasting in search of a return from a trade that was terrible on its face, abstracting from the bad luck that followed Thornberg here.

Has any pitcher in recent memory recovered from Thoracic Outlet surgery, and been able to pitch successfully again?

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Has any pitcher in recent memory recovered from Thoracic Outlet surgery, and been able to pitch successfully again?

Not really. Josh Beckett threw a no hitter after having the surgery but retired a season later. We should really expect nothing at all from Thornburg.

 

[chawson]

Has any pitcher in recent memory recovered from Thoracic Outlet surgery, and been able to pitch successfully again?

Beckett was already on his way out of the league, so it’s hard to distinguish his collapse from just general senescence. Tyson Ross and Matt Harvey are two youngish star pitchers who had it, and Ross was unplayably bad in his return last year.

Clayton Richard and Jaime Garcia are two examples of guys who’ve had modestly productive full seasons after TOS. I don’t think it gets better than that.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

As Plympton mentioned, we’ve discussed his TOS many times before. I have little to believe that was why he washed out as opposed to mental issues. He had control issues, corrected them, became a wipeout reliever, they fucked with him to try to make him a starter and he crapped out again. I blame BV a lot more than TOS.

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

dup

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

It was discussed here:

Yeah, apparently he's on the 60 day DL. If you look at the roster for the Cubs AAA affiliate, he's listed as "Daniel Bard (INACTIVE - 60-day DL - post-2013 thoracic outlet surgery)". BTW thanks for the Cub Reporter link. It's a hell of a long time to be on the DL.

 

[Yelling At Clouds]

Beckett was already on his way out of the league, so it’s hard to distinguish his collapse from just general senescence. Tyson Ross and Matt Harvey are two youngish star pitchers who had it, and Ross was unplayably bad in his return last year.

Clayton Richard and Jaime Garcia are two examples of guys who’ve had modestly productive full seasons after TOS. I don’t think it gets better than that.

Pitcher Chris Young might be the most hopeful example so far. Had the surgery in 2013, two solid years in Seattle and KC (won a ring!), then kind of lousy, but to be fair, he was 37 at that point.

 

[threecy]

It's convenient to blame the conversion to start for Bard's problems, but his problems started in September 2011.

He blew a save against the Yankees at the start of the month, then was shellacked by the Blue Jays. Thereafter, he took a loss against the Rays, was hit hard by the Orioles, and had a 3 walk (2 IBB) appearance against the Yankees.

He posted a 10.64 ERA that month with 9 walks in 11 appearances. This was after having ERAs of 0.00 in June and July.

 

[Sprowl]

As Plympton mentioned, we’ve discussed his TOS many times before. I have little to believe that was why he washed out as opposed to mental issues. He had control issues, corrected them, became a wipeout reliever, they fucked with him to try to make him a starter and he crapped out again. I blame BV a lot more than TOS.

In fairness to Bobby the Fifth, he wanted to keep Bard in the bullpen, but was overruled by the front office (Cherington or perhaps Lucchino), who thought that Bard had the stuff and variety to start.

I thought he did too, but he lost his fastball command early in the season, and could get outs only on his slider. Throwing his slider 40 times a game was not a good sign.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

In fairness to Bobby the Fifth, he wanted to keep Bard in the bullpen, but was overruled by the front office (Cherington or perhaps Lucchino), who thought that Bard had the stuff and variety to start.

I thought he did too, but he lost his fastball command early in the season, and could get outs only on his slider. Throwing his slider 40 times a game was not a good sign.

Considering the eventual TOS diagnosis and the fact that he had a shitty September 2011, seems safe to say that his move from pen to rotation had nothing to do with anything that happened. He'd have been as shitty coming out of the pen in 2012 as he was in the rotation. It's a damn shame, but playing the blame game is pointless.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

It's also possible he just flamed out. He was good for all of 2 or 3 years and MRs flame out all the time.

 

[lexrageorge]

Bard wanted to be a starter, and petitioned the Sox front office to transition to a starting role in 2012. Valentine was skeptical, but was overruled. Of course, Valentine was probably the worst one to oversee the transition, but that's a bit besides the point.

My guess is that the injury had a lot more to do with Bard's decline than the failed starter experiment. As noted, problems began in September 2011. It's also possible he wasn't all that well suited for a long baseball career. He was a bit of a late bloomer (was 23 before he advanced beyond A ball), and failed miserably his first year in the Sox organization (as a starter, no less). At the end of the day, he had 2 good seasons.

 

[Papelbon's Poutine]

Well, my mistake then on that detail. I'm still not sure that he couldn't have had more seasons of his caliber relief if they hadn't moved him, but I guess that's neither here nor there with regard to his recovery from TOS, in retrospect. I certainly don't think it helped though.

 

[Byrdbrain]

This is a case where no one is sure of anything. It is absolutely possible that if Bard stayed in the bullpen he could have been a lights out reliever moving forward.

I tend to doubt it since he was awful the September before and in reality the couple years of near greatness he had was the aberration but no one can say for sure.