Daniel Theis to Chicago for Mo Wagner

bankshot1

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Re widening the court, with the proliferation of corner 3s, there has seemingly been an explosion of turnovers with guys stepping out of bounds.
I find it funny and maddening these guys don't know where they are, but went there on purpose.
 

sezwho

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Nothing stopping the league from widening the court 18" on each side and moving the line back that much. Probably a good idea to widen the court anyway, since today's athlete is that much quicker overall. I think that it would help transition basketball too, as it would be harder to free safety those outlet passes.
I agree, it’s got to be in consideration somewhere in the league office. The seats in question will be owned by various Captains of Industry, but Lord TV may supersede. As long as they are still in the front row of whatever configuration we end up with, their egos will be fine.
 

Jimbodandy

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Yeah it's an investment to lose a row of level 1 seat revenue, but it's not the most important seats (courtside). Also it's an investment in a better game. Silver could sell this no problem, if he wanted to.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Yeah it's an investment to lose a row of level 1 seat revenue, but it's not the most important seats (courtside). Also it's an investment in a better game. Silver could sell this no problem, if he wanted to.
Any seat directly on the floor is a VIP and costs thousands per game. While the actual revenue could be made up, the fact that there are limited numbers of seats for VIPs I would guess means that teams are loathe to give up that real estate for something as silly as improved game aesthetics.
 

reggiecleveland

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Re widening the court, with the proliferation of corner 3s, there has seemingly been an explosion of turnovers with guys stepping out of bounds.
I find it funny and maddening these guys don't know where they are, but went there on purpose.
The guys are so big, I am amazed they can fit in corner threes at all. Once you get north of 6'3 a normal stance is difficult to step into a corner 3 and be inbounds. I have seen 6'9 shooters practicing taking the pass from the top with their outside foot out of bounds, then step into the pass as it comes. Just a comfortable stance for them with a size 17 shoe behind the line makes it hard to be inbounds. Those out of bounds calls are an acceptable price like walking a guy rather than throwing it down the middle or missing the net while trying to pick a corner.

Elimination of the corner 3 is probably a better solution. Courts very in length with lots of high schools being 85 foot courts, but the width is standard. Forget changing losing a row of seats, what about every other basketball court on earth changing width? HArd to imagine the NBA having a wider court than NCAA, FIBA pro leagues that feed them talent. Can't imagine those leagues building thousands of new gyms.
 

mcpickl

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Some of us heard rumors(attached) that Danny got a $5MM TPE out of moving Theis. Did you hear this at all?


https://celticswire.usatoday.com/lists/nba-boston-celtics-bye-thes-green-teague-hello-fournier-kornet-wagner/

Boston will create a $5 million traded player exception (TPE) with the Theis deal, absorbing Wagner into one of its existing TPEs.
I have not seen it confirmed yet, but I believe they did get a 5M TPE for Theis.

I think they took Wagner into the Vincent Poirier TPE, and matched salary of Javonte Green with Luke Kornet, leaving Theis salary available to be used to generate a TPE.
 

Humphrey

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Any seat directly on the floor is a VIP and costs thousands per game. While the actual revenue could be made up, the fact that there are limited numbers of seats for VIPs I would guess means that teams are loathe to give up that real estate for something as silly as improved game aesthetics.
There's still VIP courtside seats, they're just back further.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I'd be up for a wider court but one row of seats is a lot of revenue I would imagine.
There would stilll be front row seats as you’d only lose the back row. I’ve been calling for a wider and longer court here for two decades as there was a need back then. Now, with more length and athleticism than ever it’s a no-brainer to me. Turn 94x50 into 100x54 and you’ve improved the product by creating more spacing.
 

benhogan

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Now, with more length and athleticism than ever it’s a no-brainer to me. Turn 94x50 into 100x54 and you’ve improved the product by creating more spacing.
Never will happen, but completely agree.

FIBA still living in the dark ages with 28 X 15-meter floor (91.9' X 49.2')
 

Cesar Crespo

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Never will happen, but completely agree.

FIBA still living in the dark ages with 28 X 15-meter floor (91.9' X 49.2')

Maybe, maybe not but I'm pretty sure they did it in the NHL didn't they? Or maybe it's just the NHL rink is different than Olympic?

edit: Yeah, the rink is just smaller. Never mind.
 

lexrageorge

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Maybe, maybe not but I'm pretty sure they did it in the NHL didn't they? Or maybe it's just the NHL rink is different than Olympic?

edit: Yeah, the rink is just smaller. Never mind.
The NHL standardized its rink sizes. The Boston Garden rink was grandfathered, but expanded to regulation once the TD Garden was built.

The NBA court should be 31m x 16.5m. Feet are so 20th century.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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There's still VIP courtside seats, they're just back further.
There's a fixed distance between the edge of the court and the first row of permanent seating. Adding in things like boundaries and walkways, there are only a limited number of seats that can go there. If you widen the court, you reduce the number of seats.

The revenue probably isn't the biggest thing - though some of these seats go for thousands a game during the regular season, more for playoffs, and that's not including other spending that goes with it - but the more important thing is having those kind of seats available to people who can afford to pay thousands of dollars a game.

I doubt teams widen the court anytime soon.
 

benhogan

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There's a fixed distance between the edge of the court and the first row of permanent seating. Adding in things like boundaries and walkways, there are only a limited number of seats that can go there. If you widen the court, you reduce the number of seats.

The revenue probably isn't the biggest thing - though some of these seats go for thousands a game during the regular season, more for playoffs, and that's not including other spending that goes with it - but the more important thing is having those kind of seats available to people who can afford to pay thousands of dollars a game.

I doubt teams widen the court anytime soon.
Agreed doubt they change the size of the court

I believe HRB's stance was they'd adjust pricing throughout (the permanent seating would now be closer to the action)

So at the end of the day, you'd lose the last row revenue to get a wider court.

The next TV contract is really the needle mover and a better product trumps all in regards to revenue.

If the NBA was really interested in making a bigger court we'd see experiments during Summer League and G-League. Is this even being kicked around? and is there a way for The Is to benefit from these new dimensions???
 
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reggiecleveland

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Maybe, maybe not but I'm pretty sure they did it in the NHL didn't they? Or maybe it's just the NHL rink is different than Olympic?

edit: Yeah, the rink is just smaller. Never mind.
Rinks have only recently had any kid of standard. Many of these decisisons are based on the world championships, Lots of the rules I coah with in FIBA are designed to deal with things that happen at the highest level. The FIBA version of the clear path was made more harsh from the Russian women tripping, hacking all the teams that play at faster level.

Canada and the USA will be in the final when the ice size is North American size. Since they control the TV money it is tough for the European teams to change to the bigger ice.

You have got me thinkng about this. the NBA could just make the court two feet wider. There would be no reason for FIBA the NCAA to have to follow, but they might. I did a tour in Europe in the 80s, and the gyms there at the time were nonstandard, and most were smaller, but we played one in Germany that was wider. At that time the Euros were very methodical slower pace so when we pressed them in the small gyms it was effective, but that wide court was weird. There was no 3pt line then. I am old.
 

NomarsFool

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Ainge quietly went into tank mode at the deadline without most even realizing it. It’s what Wyc & Co wanted so that’s what we’ve got.
Frustratingly, I feel like this season is shaping up exactly where you don't want to be (kind of like the Patriots). The Celtics are looking like either a first round knock-out or a very late lottery team (which doesn't get you any real hope for the future). The draftniks are often wrong, but this year is supposed to have 5 impact players at the top of the draft that we unfortunately will likely have no shot at.
 

DGreenwood

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Aren't we at a point now where a lottery pick would be better used in a trade to bring in a more established player? The window is opening now for the Jays, I don't think we want to wait 2-4 years for a rookie to develop into a useful piece.
 

NomarsFool

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Aren't we at a point now where a lottery pick would be better used in a trade to bring in a more established player? The window is opening now for the Jays, I don't think we want to wait 2-4 years for a rookie to develop into a useful piece.
An impact player has to fit into some salary slot - which is a bit more difficult now that most of the Hayward TPE has been used. It can be done, certainly, but it's not cookie cutter.

The best lottery picks have a fairly near-term impact. But, this all pretty hypothetical as the Celtics have no early lottery pick.
 

lovegtm

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An impact player has to fit into some salary slot - which is a bit more difficult now that most of the Hayward TPE has been used. It can be done, certainly, but it's not cookie cutter.

The best lottery picks have a fairly near-term impact. But, this all pretty hypothetical as the Celtics have no early lottery pick.
As has been repeated many times, it’s not hard at all—you trade Smart and TT.

There is no way you can pay Smart’s next deal if you bring in an impact player, re-sign Fournier, and re-sign TL. And having seen Smart’s defensive slide this year, even pre-injury, I want no part of his next contract.
 

NomarsFool

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When they made the trade, I thought Wagner would play more than Kornet, but it seems to be quite the opposite.
 

lovegtm

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When they made the trade, I thought Wagner would play more than Kornet, but it seems to be quite the opposite.
Kornet has more defensive potential because of his length imo, and spaces a bit better. I’d probably make him the one I take a flyer on, but it’s not a very important decision.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Kornet has more defensive potential because of his length imo, and spaces a bit better. I’d probably make him the one I take a flyer on, but it’s not a very important decision.
He has great standing reach but his wingspan kinda sucks. Of course Wagner's wingspan and standing reach suck and Kornet's standing reach is elite.

After a very sss, I think Kornet is a better fit alongside TL/TT but they are both bad. Both are better than Tacko tho.
 

lovegtm

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He has great standing reach but his wingspan kinda sucks. Of course Wagner's wingspan and standing reach suck and Kornet's standing reach is elite.

After a very sss, I think Kornet is a better fit alongside TL/TT but they are both bad. Both are better than Tacko tho.
I read his standing reach as being 9’6, but I need to source that.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I read his standing reach as being 9’6, but I need to source that.
Yeah, I've read that on bleacher report and something siting bleacher report. He passes the eye ball test. Really narrow shoulders. long lanky arms.
 

NomarsFool

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But standing reach seems overall much more valuable than wingspan, right? The fact that Kornet can shoot the three well is also quite valuable.

it’s interesting that Wagner was thought to be a good outside shooter in college but that hasn’t translated to the NBA.
 

Cesar Crespo

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But standing reach seems overall much more valuable than wingspan, right?
For Kornet, yeah. I'd guess it depends on the player but usually a player blessed with one is blessed with the other. Usually. Or at the very least, not at the extremes Kornet is at.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I hate Wagner. I knew that I would hate him, and I hate him even worse than I expected.
If he wasn’t a first-round pick with a guaranteed contract he wouldn’t have made it to the All-Star break in the league. Kornet, otoh, looks like he can stick around this league for a little while.
 

lovegtm

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If he wasn’t a first-round pick with a guaranteed contract he wouldn’t have made it to the All-Star break in the league. Kornet, otoh, looks like he can stick around this league for a little while.
Being really long and able to move your feet a bit covers up for a multitude of sins.
 

RetractableRoof

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HomeRunBaker

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Being really long and able to move your feet a bit covers up for a multitude of sins.
It is not a long list of 7-footers in this world can move their feet and not be exposed by the pace/speed/skill of today’s NBA game? I’m impressed that Kornet is able to compete as well as he has.
 

lovegtm

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It is not a long list of 7-footers in this world can move their feet and not be exposed by the pace/speed/skill of today’s NBA game? I’m impressed that Kornet is able to compete as well as he has.
Agree--I'm not going to crown his ass, but he's better than I thought he would be, and I'm ok rolling with him as a 3rd-string center.
 

TripleOT

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Theis not exactly setting Chicago on fire. Three games, all losses, 5/4/2 in 20 minutes on 40/0/60% shooting, averaging minus-7
 

Cesar Crespo

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Yeah, I think that Theis is the wrong fit for the Celtics (he's redundant with TL while not being able to bang with big centers), but he's a good deal better than "fungible".
He's worse than TT and TT is fungible. It was proven this past off season. Pretty much all bigs are fungible minus a certain few.

edit: Unless fungible to you is Wagner and Kornet. They aren't NBA players to me.