David Price 2017

twibnotes

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.You can't discuss how a Boston media and fanship pillories a star athlete of color — again, one of the very best pitchers in baseball — without including an analysis of race.
So is Eck racist? Are people like me racist for being disappointed in his behaviors and performance?

You and I disagree on burden of proof. Racism is one of the ugliest things in our society. I think you should have decent evidence that racism is at play when you toss the word around.

Incidentally, Price is not "one of the very best pitchers in baseball" - I think he'd get away with some of this media nonsense if he were.
 
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FinanceAdvice

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Last two starts have been solid and here's something that portends well for the future.

Average fastball velocity by start:

5/29: 94.3
6/3: 93.3
6/8: 94.6
6/13: 93.3
6/18: 93.6
6/24: 95.1
6/29: 95.2
I've read that Price's main problem is command of the fastball. Do you agree? If not, what is his main problem. I too want him to succeed. We can win ALCS but need either Price or Porcello or both to compliment the Cy Young Year of Chris Sale
 

TonyPenaNeverJuiced

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I've read that Price's main problem is command of the fastball. Do you agree? If not, what is his main problem. I too want him to succeed. We can win ALCS but need either Price or Porcello or both to compliment the Cy Young Year of Chris Sale
In here and in other threads, the breakdown of Price's mechanics have been discussed at length. I still see him doing the same things - lower leg kick, leading to a trailing arm, leading to... pitches up in the zone. Price isn't missing wildly or erratically, he's missing high, and sometimes inside to lefties/outside to righties. This leads to flatter breaking pitches and juicy fastballs (and slower ones, but the recent uptick in velocity is a good sign). I won't go into it at length, but Price has never kept the same motion in an entire season (or so), and that's led to our current situation: he can keep the ball over the plate, just too high over the plate.

That's my .02. I'm not Carl Willis but I kinda wish I were.
 

ehaz

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So... what was with the apparent finger injury? Any reason to be concerned? Threw a lot of pitches today, but Price dominated. Loved how the change-ups to Odor.
 

Sampo Gida

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So... what was with the apparent finger injury? Any reason to be concerned? Threw a lot of pitches today, but Price dominated. Loved how the change-ups to Odor.
Maybe Manfred Balls Syndrome (aka Stromans Blister Theory). Farrell said he is fine though, not that this means much.
 

FinanceAdvice

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In here and in other threads, the breakdown of Price's mechanics have been discussed at length. I still see him doing the same things - lower leg kick, leading to a trailing arm, leading to... pitches up in the zone. Price isn't missing wildly or erratically, he's missing high, and sometimes inside to lefties/outside to righties. This leads to flatter breaking pitches and juicy fastballs (and slower ones, but the recent uptick in velocity is a good sign). I won't go into it at length, but Price has never kept the same motion in an entire season (or so), and that's led to our current situation: he can keep the ball over the plate, just too high over the plate.

That's my .02. I'm not Carl Willis but I kinda wish I were.
Consistency is a big key. At least last night was a nice turnaround. Interesting to see how he fares against Tampa right before All-Star break as I believe he's in line for that start.
 

sean1562

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David Price is not a HoF caliber pitcher. He is a good pitcher who had some great years, but still pretty far away from Hall of Fame worthy. I don't think he will age all that well considering how much he relies on his fastball.
 

PaulinMyrBch

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Is anyone else noticing a transformation into alpha dog mentality for Price? Seems more aggressive on the mound, has been outspoken with the media, confrontational but rumored to be standing up for teammates. Article on espn today has him providing quotes about Beni. Just seems to me that maybe he is now asserting himself as a team leader a bit more (with Papi gone) and he's feeling his way into that role. I like the presence on the mound last night, seems different than his outings last year.
 

chawson

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David Price is not a HoF caliber pitcher. He is a good pitcher who had some great years, but still pretty far away from Hall of Fame worthy. I don't think he will age all that well considering how much he relies on his fastball.
Since 1975, there have been only 25 pitchers with more WAR before their age-30 season. Price has more than Pettitte, Halladay, and Glavine. And his first full season didn't happen until age 24.

Only 10 pitchers have had a better age 24-29 stretch than David Price since 1975 (30.5 WAR).

I don't care about the actual Hall of Fame. How could you not want David Price on your team?
 
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TonyPenaNeverJuiced

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Consistency is a big key. At least last night was a nice turnaround. Interesting to see how he fares against Tampa right before All-Star break as I believe he's in line for that start.
I really liked his release point and his leg work - he was consistent, he was able to come down on the ball and get to a consistent release point. This was the pitcher we paid for. Just check out the difference in release point from his previous start to this one:

June 29th:


July 4th:


(edited to fix image error - h/t Curt S Loew)
 
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Plympton91

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Since 1975, there have been only 25 pitchers with more WAR before their age-30 season. Price has more than Pettitte, Halladay, and Glavine. And his first full season didn't happen until age 24.

Only 10 pitchers have had a better age 24-29 stretch than David Price since 1975 (30.5 WAR).

I don't care about the actual Hall of Fame. How could you not want David Price on your team?
Because all of his attributes have to now be balanced against a $31 million salary and worrisome elbow within a ~$200 million self-imposed payroll target. There are opportunity costs to having a #2 starter taking up between 1/6th and 1/7th of your self-imposed luxury-tax eligible salary budget Such as, trading 4 prospects to get a cost-controlled ace to fill the role you thought you were getting with your previous $217 million investment.
 

joe dokes

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Because all of his attributes have to now be balanced against a $31 million salary and worrisome elbow within a ~$200 million self-imposed payroll target. There are opportunity costs to having a #2 starter taking up between 1/6th and 1/7th of your self-imposed luxury-tax eligible salary budget Such as, trading 4 prospects to get a cost-controlled ace to fill the role you thought you were getting with your previous $217 million investment.

Weren't they trying to get Sale long before Price could be considered a problem? (Last summer, iirc, but the WSox wanted major leaguers.

Price was a good or bad signing on its own merits (jury's still out, YMMV, etc). The signing didn't "cause" the Sale trade (which can also stand or fall on its own merits).
 

Pearl Wilson

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If I may refer to the Price-Eckersly thing... there was just a quick remark in the game commentary by Eck that Rodriguez was kinda his protoge (meaning Price). Sorry - I just thought it worth a mention.
 

richgedman'sghost

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Maybe that is why Price felt he needed to defend EROD so strongly. Back on topic, I thought that was one of the strongest starts of Price's Red Sox career. It was even sweeter in that it came against the Yankees..
 

Van Everyman

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Didn't see last night's game but that has to be a big monkey off Price's back – the offense is scuffling and they are playing a division rival he has had trouble against as a Red Sox and he goes 8 with no runs and 8Ks. Fiery theatrics and all. Even Shank can't deny him that one.
 

TonyPenaNeverJuiced

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Again, Price keeping his release point higher and more consistent:



A bit more horizontal, but that vertical axis is nice and tight. Hopefully he keeps it up, the consistency is paying off.
 

iddoc

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So is Eck racist? Are people like me racist for being disappointed in his behaviors and performance?

You and I disagree on burden of proof. Racism is one of the ugliest things in our society. I think you should have decent evidence that racism is at play when you toss the word around.

Incidentally, Price is not "one of the very best pitchers in baseball" - I think he'd get away with some of this media nonsense if he were.
 

iddoc

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I think much of the fan base's animus towards Price has been fueled by memory of his behavior towards Ortiz in the 2013 playoffs. Sure, Ortiz "made up" with him last year, but what else was he supposed to do? Many fans have not been as forgiving, especially given performance that did not meet lofty expectations, including laying another egg in the playoffs. Would some fans have been more forgiving if he where white? Probably.

The 2013 playoff drama and his exchanges with the media here have suggested that Price is a bit "touchy," but on the other hand he has high standards for himself, works hard, has been publicly accountable for his performance, and seems to be a loyal and well-respected teammate. And over the past year he has been an excellent pitcher.
 

NDame616

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I think much of the fan base's animus towards Price has been fueled by memory of his behavior towards Ortiz in the 2013 playoffs. Sure, Ortiz "made up" with him last year, but what else was he supposed to do? Many fans have not been as forgiving, especially given performance that did not meet lofty expectations, including laying another egg in the playoffs. Would some fans have been more forgiving if he where white? Probably.

The 2013 playoff drama and his exchanges with the media here have suggested that Price is a bit "touchy," but on the other hand he has high standards for himself, works hard, has been publicly accountable for his performance, and seems to be a loyal and well-respected teammate. And over the past year he has been an excellent pitcher.
You think the Ortiz beef from four years ago, one World Series ago, one Ortiz retirement ago, has anything to do with the fans animosity towards Price?
 

BaseballJones

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Last seven starts:

2.66 era, 1.23 whip, 8.8 k/9

He's pitching like a #1 starter. Very encouraging.
 

sean1562

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yes can we break the Eck v Price stuff into its own thread? How do you guys see Price performing moving forward? I think him being a slightly above average pitcher is who he is now, i am not expecting the Price of 2012 or 2015.
 

BTU

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I've been intrigued enough in David Price's arrival to the Red Sox that I have viewed most of his starts, not to mention his starts against the Sox when he was with TB. His fastball looks pretty good compared to prior years; his other pitches like the changeup don't seem to be called for strikes as frequently as in seasons past; they don't seem to induce as many off-balance "chases" by the batters. These are just qualitative observations. I'm spinning my wheels on how/where to go to somehow quantify them. Anyway, cheering for D.P.
 

Plympton91

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Seems new thread worthy. This is a different level of concern. Most likely, see you in 2019 David.
 

BigChara33

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Guy not only has been injured and not pitching to expectations, but he's developed into a cancerous leader. What he did to Eck was a punk move. He acted like a bully in high school. Not only that, but it's rubbing off on other players too.

Now of course, he'll get TJ, come back throwing harder than before and opt out to go to the Spankees so he can choke in the playoffs to us.
 

Rasputin

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You think the Ortiz beef from four years ago, one World Series ago, one Ortiz retirement ago, has anything to do with the fans animosity towards Price?
Of course it does. It's not the whole thing by any stretch but at the very least it set the stage.

When's his opt out, end of 2018? Small chance, but have we seen the last of the lesser DP.
I just don't buy it. He would have to be massively unhappy here to give up millions of dollars when he knows he won't get as much in a new contract. I suppose he could just be delusional about what he'd get but that's what he has advisers for.
 

H78

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While Price was getting his MRI, elsewhere in the country Jon "Old Man" Lester pitched 7 innings, giving up two runs.

To me that will always be the biggest Red Sox organizational gaffe this century.
 

grimshaw

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I just don't buy it. He would have to be massively unhappy here to give up millions of dollars when he knows he won't get as much in a new contract. I suppose he could just be delusional about what he'd get but that's what he has advisers for.
My guess is that he can drop off quite a bit and still get close to 30 per. Even a 3-4 WAR pitcher is worth around 30 mill in this market, but they aren't getting paid like that yet. I think he'd leave a a few million per year on the table, but definitely not if he has TJ.
 

Buzzkill Pauley

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Well, there I was starting to worry about how the Sox would look with both EdRo and Price healthy and in the rotation.

Silly me.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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While Price was getting his MRI, elsewhere in the country Jon "Old Man" Lester pitched 7 innings, giving up two runs.

To me that will always be the biggest Red Sox organizational gaffe this century.
Lackey's got an ERA+ of 85 this year. While I think it's too bad the way it all played out, let's not go exaggerating things.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Ah hell, how did I miss that?

Lester's got an ERA+ of 109 this year. Price, although in far less innings because of injury, has a 119. Doesn't make him better than Lester this year as staying on the field counts a lot more than a few better innings, but still.
 

ifmanis5

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LINK: http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/20182051/david-price-boston-red-sox-miss-start-elbow-issue

10-day DL according to Olney
The elbow injury that kept Boston Red Sox left-hander David Price off the Opening Day roster has returned, and he has been placed on the 10-day disabled list, the team announced Friday.

Sources told ESPN's Buster Olney that Price underwent an MRI on his pitching elbow Thursday. Price is experiencing similar tightness in his elbow to what he felt in spring training, a source told ESPN's Scott Lauber. It is unclear when the symptoms resurfaced.

Price's DL move is retroactive to Tuesday.