DD fired

SemperFidelisSox

suzyn
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Four different managers in nine seasons. Three different GMs during that period. Now onto a fourth.

Amazing the success this team has had on the field with what’s been a pretty dysfunctional relationship between ownership and management.
 

Harry Hooper

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Who would want this job? Deliver a WS. Have an off year with incredible financial handcuffs and get fired?
They fired Ben soon after a WS victory too. To paraphrase Walpole Joe Morgan, this job isn't as desirable as the braintrust thinks it is.


Cora might’ve just won a power struggle, for one.
Maybe it's more JWH is tired of taking grief from the minority owners, so they play polo with DD's head.
 
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Beomoose

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If it's just the results on the field it looks like a bit much to can him a year after a ring. But if Shaughnessy is right about his relationship with the owners going to hell then yeah they basically gotta do it. It doesn't reflect great on the owners that this keeps happening, they seem to need to work on making their relationship with the next GM work better for longer.
 
Dec 28, 2015
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I think the Red Sox need a guy like Andrew Friedman. Since he came to LA from Tampa in 2014, the Dodgers have won their division each year. They have averaged 7 to 8 wins a year more than the Sox in that time. The Dodgers have had a consistently strong farm system and they have refused to overpay for pitching. When Zack Greinke opted out of a 25 million contract, they let him go to Arizona for 34 million. He has also surrounded himself with a strong front office.

I don't think the Sox can get Friedman, but they should be able to find his like in well run places like Cleveland and Tampa.
 

Marciano490

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There must’ve been something behind the scenes to lead to this happening now.

Who’s out there the Sox should be looking at?
 

jtn46

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Wow crazy. Just do it in the off-season. Makes the season even more bizarre and annoying
Guessing there are people they want to talk to now and they don't want to have to lie to reporters and to DD.

It's also a good job, would be a shame if a candidate they liked landed elsewhere.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Jan 15, 2004
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Wow crazy. Just do it in the off-season. Makes the season even more bizarre and annoying
Why wait though? If owners know DD is out why would they want him involved in daily meetings, briefings, and be involved in any future planning? Once a decision is made just be done with it and move forward.
 

strek1

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Didn't see this coming. Is it possible there's a bigger reason than just the failure of the team to get back to the playoffs? Did he do something bad? Unlawful? Weird.
 

jon abbey

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This is from the MLBTradeRumors piece on this, is this really true about Boston’s current 2019 luxury tax number? I thought the reason they couldn’t add salary all year was they were just under $246M but if they are really over already, then I’m confused.

===================

Multiple issues surrounded the 2019 Red Sox, which were seemingly enough for upper management to decide that a change was needed. For one, the team exceeded the upper level of the luxury tax ($237MM) in 2018, and are again in position to exceed the new upper threshold of $246MM this season. As per Roster Resource, the Red Sox have a projected luxury tax number of over $257.7MM, putting them in line to face another maximum penalty — a 75 percent tax on the overage, as well as a drop of ten spots for their highest pick of the 2020 draft.

 

DeadlySplitter

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as far as I knew, we were just under 246M and that is paritally why we barely did anything at the deadline. if we're actually way over, that's a fireable offense IMO... but I'd say that MLBTR is wrong here.
 

jon abbey

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There must’ve been something behind the scenes to lead to this happening now.

Who’s out there the Sox should be looking at?
Chaim Bloom is the TB guy who was aced out for the Mets job by smooth-talking Brodie last winter, he is back to the Rays now as some kind of VP and probably available.

Edit: Wow, he is 36 and has worked for the Rays since graduating from Yale undergrad 15 years ago, also he was published in BP as far back as 1997 (when he was 14).

 

Harry Hooper

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This is from the MLBTradeRumors piece on this, is this really true about Boston’s current 2019 luxury tax number? I thought the reason they couldn’t add salary all year was they were just under $246M but if they are really over already, then I’m confused.

===================

Multiple issues surrounded the 2019 Red Sox, which were seemingly enough for upper management to decide that a change was needed. For one, the team exceeded the upper level of the luxury tax ($237MM) in 2018, and are again in position to exceed the new upper threshold of $246MM this season. As per Roster Resource, the Red Sox have a projected luxury tax number of over $257.7MM, putting them in line to face another maximum penalty — a 75 percent tax on the overage, as well as a drop of ten spots for their highest pick of the 2020 draft.

Roster Resource is off. For example, the Red Sox are not paying Cashner's full salary (Orioles kicked in a lot), and they certainly aren't paying Chacin $6.75 million.
 

SoFloSoxFan

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I think hiring Dombrowski was fine at the time. Cherington had a monster farm system but didn't seem to want to trade anyone. Dombrowski picked some winners and traded everyone else, and did a pretty good job of that. He won a world series with a lot of help from the strength of the trade chips he inherited, but he also held onto most of the best players and didn't give much away to regret. However now the farm system in in shambles, the payroll is maxed, there is no more room to GFIN and DD is a GFIN GM. Time to move on.
 

Marciano490

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People keep saying the farm system is in shambles, but who did DD trade away that we’re missing now? Is it just poor drafting?
 

jon abbey

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People keep saying the farm system is in shambles, but who did DD trade away that we’re missing now? Is it just poor drafting?
To me the weakness is the lack of stockpiling of young international players. NY is exceptionally good and focused on this in recent years but as a comparison, right now Fangraphs has NY with 40 prospects rated 40 or better, 23 of those are their own international signings. BOS has 23 prospects 40 or better, only 8 of those their own international signings.


 

SoFloSoxFan

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People keep saying the farm system is in shambles, but who did DD trade away that we’re missing now? Is it just poor drafting?
Also the talent drain of the farm system wasn't just trades, it was also the players that graduated to the major league level and are now core players. And IMO he did a fairly good job choosing who to keep and who to trade.

But as the talent went out the top not much came in at the bottom.
 

ZMart100

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To me the weakness is the lack of stockpiling of young international players. NY is exceptionally good and focused on this in recent years but as a comparison, right now Fangraphs has NY with 40 prospects rated 40 or better, 23 of those are their own international signings. BOS has 23 prospects 40 or better, only 8 of those their own international signings.


Part of that is probably the sanctions they faced '16/'17 for the '15/'16 international signing period. Not all of it, but some.
 

SydneySox

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It's always hard for someone to see, one year after a World Series win.

One thing I've always been worried about with DD is the wreck he left Detroit in after he left. I have feared we'd be that wreck in two or three years. No minor league system, with long term ageing stars on premium contracts.

We can't judge this without seeing the next stage but it does seem like the next step will be a forward one.

What can't get lost here is, while this was a frustrating season for the Red Sox, they weren't terrible.
 

nvalvo

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I don't really like it, but I guess I can see how this makes sense. The team has to make a massive decision about Betts in the coming months and years, and you want the person overseeing that process to be someone with a mandate.

On the one hand, I was never wild about Dombrowski. But on the other hand, Dombrowski did exactly what he was brought here to do, which was turn a top farm into a Championship roster. Nice work.
 

LogansDad

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What can't get lost here is, while this was a frustrating season for the Red Sox, they weren't terrible.
This was my first thought, too. I think this season was always going to be a bit of a drag after how incredible last season was.... and it has definitely turned out to be true, as a lot of teams around the Sox got better, while they basically stood pat, and got worse, but they are sitting 10 games above .500 right now (and would be just a 1/2 game out in the NL), and had hope, albeit diminishing, into mid-August.

I worry about Cora and the players being caught off guard... especially Mookie. I'm of the mindset that they need to figure out a way to lock him up, but he was already planning on testing free agency, and getting blindsided like this can't be awesome for morale.
 

DeadlySplitter

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FWIW, Shaughnessy's tidbits.
Dombrowski did exactly what he was hired to do when the Sox brought him on board in the summer of 2015. He traded prospects for veteran talent. He signed big name free agents. He threw around contract extensions like fun-sized Halloween candies. He ignored draft and development. And he ignored a lot of the people who worked at Fenway Park.

The Sox won every year until this year. And each season, Dombrowski became more isolated inside the walls of Fenway. He holed up with his buddies Frank Wren and Tony La Russa. He insisted that Sam Kennedy have zero input on all baseball decisions and never clicked with the “new” CEO. Dombrowski was not particularly close to the people in baseball ops. Or Tom Werner.

In the end, Dombrowski did not have much support from Alex Cora. No one in a Sox uniform was happy last week in Anaheim when Dombrowski failed to bring major league arms to California after a 15-inning win on a Friday night at the Big A. The next night, Cora was forced to call on weary, worn-out Ryan Brasier in relief of a critical game. Brasier blew a 4-3 lead, giving up six runs in the eighth inning. It was front office malpractice. Things were coming to a head.

When the team came home from the coast to play the Twins and Yankees, Dombrowski wanted clarity on his situation, and that clarity came after the Sox’ 10-5 loss to the Yankees late Sunday night.
 

MikeM

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We realistically signed up for this type of breakup and these exact surrounding circumstances on the day DD was brought in. I'd go as to far to say that it even happened within in it's own rationally expected timeframe as well. Loved some of what he did during his time here, and hated some of the other things. In the end the pay off, while still remembering feeling particularly down at the time over 2 straight cellar finishes, was ultimately worth it though imo.

Hat off to DD for 3 fun back to the playoffs years and another ring added to the collection. Hope retirement treats you well.
 

Marciano490

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It's always hard for someone to see, one year after a World Series win.

One thing I've always been worried about with DD is the wreck he left Detroit in after he left. I have feared we'd be that wreck in two or three years. No minor league system, with long term ageing stars on premium contracts.

We can't judge this without seeing the next stage but it does seem like the next step will be a forward one.

What can't get lost here is, while this was a frustrating season for the Red Sox, they weren't terrible.
But there was a reason he left a wreck in Detroit. Owner Mike Ilitch was ill and dying and ordered a series of "go for it now" moves in an effort to win a WS before his death. That's not really DD's fault.
DD's history of building minor league systems is actually quite good. He planted the seeds for the Expos' 1994 team, which should have been a WS contender. He left Miami in 2001 but the team won a WS two years later largely with homegrown players he acquired during the previous fire sale. The Tigers went from historically bad in 2003 to a WS in 2006 and kicked off an eight year stretch with four ALCS and two WS appearances with the team he built from scratch.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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When the team came home from the coast to play the Twins and Yankees, Dombrowski wanted clarity on his situation, and that clarity came after the Sox’ 10-5 loss to the Yankees late Sunday night.
That was my thought. He was under contract for 2020 only and wanted an extension and JWH didn't want to give him an extension, so this was the logical progression
 

luckysox

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This caught me off guard, but the more I process it, the more sense it makes.

That said, the rebuild isn’t going to be a lot of fun, and my money now is on Mookie being traded either off season or before the deadline if the pitching struggles again (a good bet with so much injury uncertainty and not much money to pay new guys). And that makes me sad.

Anyway, cheers for the WS run last year, Dave. We’ll always appreciate you for that.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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Because executing an idea cooked up by CHB is always a good idea...ugh this is a mistake.
 

Philip Jeff Frye

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Maybe owning a European soccer club has rubbed off on Henry. Those guys don't think twice about firing management after disappointing seasons.
 

dcmissle

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The Sox are like Taylor Swift. Can’t anybody ever leave without weird gossip thrown at their backs?
They don’t handle these things gracefully or well. They didn’t under Harrington; they don’t under Henry. Lucchino was a prick, but it goes beyond him. And I don’t understand, in particular, the compulsion to make Shaughnessy their Thomas Paine. You never win the PR battle.

What’s done is done. DD did his job very well. Now the mission is different and ownership is on the hot seat.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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If your GM and superstar's contracts are up at the same time (end of 2020), and ownership is not convinced to extend DD at this time, then this is the right move. Get the new GM started in discussions to extend, then look at trades or roll the dice next off-season depending on how negotiations go.
 

mauf

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I’m surprised that anyone is surprised. If DD wanted to stay, and ownership wanted him to stay, an extension would have been worked out last off-season. One side or the other (or perhaps both) must have had misgivings, even in the afterglow of a championship.

JWH has generally made good decisions about these matters, so I trust his judgment. And I definitely support making the decision public as soon as it was decided — much better to have an interim situation with three guys having no real power, rather than having DD keeping the seat warm as a lame duck and constraining the organization’s ability to launch a full-fledged search for his successor.

I’m a little surprised that DD wasn’t given the opportunity to announce his retirement effective the end of the season. Or maybe he was, and he said he’d rather be fired.
 

dano7594

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I was not a fan of the decision to bring DD on, but he accomplished what I believe he was hired to do, a very underrated move by him was firing Farrell when he did.

If I recall immediately after the World Series didn't Henry say something about an extension, like in the clubhouse? My guess, DD probably say extend me or fire me.

Going forward, I feel like it will be an Epstein disciple, or maybe Epstein himself with complete control of the baseball ops.

As far as DD, if I am the Padres I would fire Preller and hire DD by noon today. If they want to win.
 

Ale Xander

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Great news to wake up to. I hope Ferreira can keep getting promoted and this stays in the family.

He mortgaged the future. Sale extension and lack of a closer were fire-able offenses. Both of those didn't work- DD is ultimately responsible and has to pay the piper and be let go. Thanks for a 4th this millenium.

Hope they can rebuild while holding on to Mookie and JD (and not doing anything stupid with Xander and Raffy and Beni).
 

chawson

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I agree with others who’ve said someone else would be better for the next era, but in DD’s defense, the payroll crunch that he’s had to contend with through this season has largely been Cherington’s design. Porcello, Sandoval, and (I hate to say it) Pedroia were all pretty rough deals through ‘19, and Hanley through last year. I think he could have sold high in a couple places after 2018, but did what he could do.

Price will probably go down as his biggest albatross, but I’m not sure what the other options were. Maybe he trades for a starter that offseason instead, but with the exception of maybe Greinke, Price has honestly been the best pitcher among that winter’s options of Cueto, Zimmermann, Samardzija, Leake, Kazmir, Gallardo, Kennedy, Iwakuma, Brett Anderson or any of the other free agent starters who signed for more than $40 million.

I agree international scouting could be better, and that would improve with Romero (or Bloom). The loss of Daniel Flores makes the situation look a bit worse than it is, but that’s where they need to make up ground.
 

67YAZ

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Maybe owning a European soccer club has rubbed off on Henry. Those guys don't think twice about firing management after disappointing seasons.
Ostensibly, the lesson learned from Liverpool is thy you need to identify the best possible candidate, move decisively to nab him/her, and then provide him/her the resources they request to do the job. Jurgen Klopp has transformed Liverpool into one of the best squads in the world.

That said, MLB organizations are much more bureaucratic and hierarchical than European soccer clubs. The soccer manager is often empowered with a lot of the player recruitment, evaluation, and retention responsibilities that baseball GMs have.

In either case, the point is that you need to find a person with a clear and compelling philosophy backed by a great track record of executing it. Then give that person the resources needed to execute it again. Arguable, that was DD until it wasn’t anymore.
 

bosockboy

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DD was likely viewed as a Band-Aid GM when hired in 2015, and had the right skillset that was needed at that time. He put together one of the 5 best teams of the last 50 years (maybe ever) in a little over 24 months. He nailed his objective, and deserves massive praise for it. This is likely the best move for both sides though.
 

cornwalls@6

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He did exactly what he was hired to do. Parlay the farm system into a playoff/World Series run. But they now have to rebuild the system on the fly, decide on Mookie and possibly JD, remain a viable contender, and not blow by the luxury tax. That’s not a job for him. They need to move on, but without the Shank fed smear campaign. Which is already starting unfortunately. Ownership needs to cut the shit once and for all with these dysfunctional, soap opera break ups with players, managers, and GMs. Had really hoped Lucky’s departure would bring an end to that. Also think they need to commit to the next person for several years, and for ownership to make that relationship work.
 

Flunky

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Can you imagine having him just drag the club on for 13 years like he did with the Tigers? Or having someone like Cashman still living off of the mid/late 90's juice squad?

He wasted a lot of offensive talent this year. tick tock.
 

lexrageorge

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I am of the opinion that there must have been clashes and/or irreconcilable differences. Shaughnessy seemed to hint at something (which I dismissed at the time), but there's more to it than the team having a disappointing season. I'm guessing Shank still has some sources buried deep in the org charts. The fact that there was no extension at the beginning of the season seems telling in hindsight; clearly there were differences developing.

For the record, Dombrowski did not trash the farm system. About the only player he's traded so far that they may miss is Moncada, but that netted them Sale. There were some trades that didn't work out (Thornburg, Carson Smith), but every GM makes a bad trade at some point. And some of the team's draft picks during the Dombrowski years are starting to progress through the minors, but that is not something the media sees. So the tired narrative lives on (Shank incorrectly claims "he ignored drafting and development", despite the fact that drafted players often take 5 or more years to reach the majors). And the payroll mess was partly inherited.

There were some moves not made this offseason that should have been, and rushing to resign Pearce and possibly Eovaldi may have been mistakes (still not quite ready to give up on Eovaldi given that he's still throwing mid-to-upper 90's.). But those moves and non-moves hardly seem justification for a firing after coming off the team's best season in history.

I'm probably in the silent minority here, but I will always take a title over being "close" for a bunch of years. So DD gets credit for that, as did Cherington and Theo before him. But the GM job is as much about the future as it is the past, and the Sox, like every team, will have their own challenges going forward when it comes to restocking. I'm expecting Henry & Co. will find a replacement without too much difficulty.