Well, there were articles in major Boston publications about this possibility, so I'd assume a lot of folks.
DD fired
- Thread starter bosockboy
- Start date
That note about DD walling off Sam Kennedy from baseball decisions. If the leadership wants Kennedy more involved on the baseball side, the attractiveness of the Boston GM job takes another hit.
The Redsox can't control or stop the media. The group in charge does not matter as long as CHB and his ilk are working.
"More involved" could mean a lot of things, though. Without more info than we have, there's no way to know if it was a legit too-many-cooks gripe or a turf-guarding overreaction.
In practical terms, probably nothing. In terms of optics, though, hanging on even another week, rather than announcing the firing in the immediate wake of a home series loss to the Yankees, might have saved them from the appearance of making an impulsive, knee-jerk move. Maybe JWH feels like he and his group have passed the point where they need to worry about stuff like that, and if so he's probably right.
Right. Dombrowski should know that better than anybody. He became GM of the Expos in July, fired the GM and assumed responsibility in Detroit after 6 games in 2002, and took over for Cherington (who was going to be “allowed to keep his job”) in August.
Agree to this. If DD wanted clarity about his situation prior to the Twins and JH told him he wasn't going to get an extension, what was the point for either side to continue on?
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I would guess that DD had some input as to when he was going to be let go. DD has better things to do (I'm sure) that to devote his energies for a team that will very shortly be going in a different direction.
Seriously. This is the ultimate "...but what have you done for me LATELY?" move.
Everywhere else, the GM is too chummy with ownership to get first blame, so it's managers/coaches who become fall guys. Bizarre that DD, who had a great rep before coming here, came here, won the friggen world series after assembling arguably the best Red Sox team of all time, didn't even get one year of slack.
I agree with those saying there's got to be something staggering behind this that we don't know yet, because they were super patient with Theo, and just the right amount of patient with Cherington.
I think pointing to WS wins is focusing too much on results and focusing too little on the process. Cherington was too unwilling to trade any of the future away, DD was too willing to. They both won WS though so that "excuses" everything. It really doesn't though.
Devils in the details. I expect we're going to hear this a lot, but I think it's fairly evident that DD brought more value to the ML club via the farm system than just sitting on all the prospects and hoping they mature would have. Nobody we traded away was a first rank ML starting pitcher, or looks like they'll become one. In terms of what we got back, it's hard to argue that DD got fleeced. Sure there were injuries, but let's not forget the rotation when DD was hired:
Miley, Porcello, J.Kelly, Buchholz, E-Rod, Henry Owens.
The non-pitching roster was more recognizable; there were gaps and Ortiz was aging, but it's worth nothing he inherited Sandoval, H.Ram, and Castillo. So it's not like he had a completely fungible roster.
If DD has done any harm to the Sox, it will be their being saddled with long term contracts: Sale, Price, Martinez, Eovaldi. But we don't yet know how that will play out.
Seriously. Unless there's more that we don't know, this seems like a huge over-reaction and strange timing.
I agree with your first sentence, but not the second. Cherington was pushed aside partly because he signed Sandoval and Ramirez and Castillo. He wanted to allow their more valuable prospects to become major leaguers, which seems like the right move. We don't know if he would have or would not have traded prospects the following offseason; there is evidence he was prepared to do just that. Most irrelevant, as Henry clearly wanted Dombrowski as soon as he came available. The prospects Dombrowski traded were mostly redundant, and none of them aside from Moncada have done anything.
But process going forward is important, and if that process wasn't going to work with Dombrowski for whatever reason, then yes it was time to move on.
DD kept the right prospects, promoted them and played them. He held onto Devers and the Bs. Our homegrown core is what propelled us to 108 wins. And, sure, the WS win is essentially statistical noise in the longer-term evaluation horizon, but the fundamentals of the roster he built are just as impressive. What trade did he make that you would undo if you could?
Craig Kimbrel for Manuel Margot and dreck
David Price for a lot of money
Chris Sale for Yoan Moncada, Kopech and dreck
Eduardo Nunez for a bag of balls
Hector Velazquez signed from the Mexican League
JD Martinez for a lot of money
Steve Pearce for a bag of balls
Jalen Beeks for Nathan Eovaldi
Ian Kinsler for (thus far) dreck
I mean, you want to get on him for the Kinsler trade? For his first-round draft picks? It's not like there's nothing to criticize, but there's certainly nothing like there was with Cherington.
Part of it is the price paid for success. Winning teams don't draft high and the wealth that was in the farm system all came up to the big club fairly close together.
I think this is close, but I see a different "process" that ownership might have problems with. I don't think DD traded away "too much" of the future. But one of the few times we've heard JWH talk about baseball ops stuff was when he said that signing pitchers over 30 to long-term deals was usually a bad bet. (He was wrong on Lester, of course, but that doesn't change the theory). DD did quite a bit of that.
And back in July, DD said that ownership wasn't preventing him from going over the final salary tax level. I take him at his word, which means it was *his* decision to make Cashner the only acquisition.
I'm not in JWH's head, so I don't know how to synthesize these two things, but I would find it hard to believe that this decision has a whole lot to do with the won-loss record, as opposed to the process that led to it, and more importantly, the process of going forward with a team that has a number of young stars, but needs improvement, but not *that* much improvement.
I think there is a more than decent chance that Shank is being fed this stuff by ownership. It would hardly be the first time.
Is that true anymore? The Globe/local staff haven’t really been relevant for years and they probably get more attention here than anywhere. Or maybe they do get traction if they’re still hitting the 55+ demo and those folks are a disproportionate chunk of a baseball fan base?
Trading away the future isn't all about "trading away prospects". He gave out very big contracts that will handicap this team in future years and had very poor drafts that are affecting the team now and probably the next few seasons.
He did a great job identifying the prospects to trade. He's done an absolute shit job identifying amateur talent to bring in.
I wouldn't have made this move if I owned the Red Sox (with the caveat that obviously we don't know exactly what arose between DD and ownership), but it's not that shocking. As others have noted, DD left the Tigers in something of a shambles after their run of successful seasons so even putting aside friction between him and ownership I could see the Sox wanting someone else to manage this quasi-rebuilding (re-tooling?) phase they are going through now.
And while it doesn't sound like this move was wholly a "mutually agreed to part ways" situation, I'm sure part of Dombrowski is relieved that he doesn't need to manage re-stocking the farm system and instead can go to some other team with a lot of assets and try to turn them into a WS contender, which is obviously his strong suit and the part of the job he finds most enjoyable.
And while it doesn't sound like this move was wholly a "mutually agreed to part ways" situation, I'm sure part of Dombrowski is relieved that he doesn't need to manage re-stocking the farm system and instead can go to some other team with a lot of assets and try to turn them into a WS contender, which is obviously his strong suit and the part of the job he finds most enjoyable.
DD was brought in to build a team that would compete every year. With $150M payroll JH might put up with some volatility in season to season results but for $225M you better compete every year. By that measure he failed, and in pretty spectacular fashion. Not only did they fail to compete this year, he positioned them to be decidedly worse next year. Cora being shocked and surprised (if he was being truthful) is the only thing that surprised and disappointed me...but it does explain the lack of urgency surrounding the club all year.
It's a small office (physically). There's enough people in the org chart that know what's going on and are probably happy to leak info to Shank for a free lunch. For all we know, Dombrowski may have pissed off a lot of people. Or maybe he clashed with the limited partners.
Not sure where the bolded comes from. Dombrowski hasn't been in position to trade for prospects, and his drafts have been considered decent given the team's drafting position. It will still probably be at least 2 more years before we can start seeing how the recently drafted players develop.
Prospects aren't amateur talent. I disagree about the drafts/international drafts.
Possibly, but this would exist with or without a Redsox leak.
This is kinda where I'm at too. The common theme seems to be dumping on him for trading away the farm system, but he traded a bunch of guys that didnt amount to anything while keeping the stars like Devers and Benny. I guess I'd blame him for not identifying new talent through the draft, but drafting in baseball seems to be such a crap shoot. I'm indifferent to him leaving though, I'd prefer to take a different approach moving into the future.
Actually we do have some idea how the Price and Martinez contracts will play out, because we're well into both of them. Price looks like a moderate, sustainable overpay; he's been paid $120M so far and earned about $85M of it, with the shortfall mostly due to injuries. If he averages 2.5 WAR per year for the last three years of the deal, he'll end up earning about $150M on a $210M contract, which is not good but far short of albatross territory.
Martinez has been a big bargain so far -- he basically earned two years' worth of salary in year 1 and another year's worth in year 2. He's highly likely to earn his contract, and pretty likely to out-earn it, unless he opts out or falls off a cliff.
It's not about who he traded away as much as how he has mostly chosen to ignore replenishing. If you look at the Rays, Dodgers, Houston, and yes NYY, there is an absurd amount of depth at all levels. I would argue that all 4 of those teams faced major injuries of multiple players throughout the season without major hits to production. The 2019 Red Sox started off the year crossing their fingers that everyone would stay healthy and that the farm could supplement the bullpen. It wasn't ready to do either. Most of the folks on this forum knew it was a gamble and that you wouldn't be able to trade for reinforcements.
Houston and LA don't just have deep systems, that have stars waiting to be called up. The Rays are going to feature a rotation of Glasnow, Snell, Honeywell, and McKay next year. Oakland continues to be an under-the-radar top team who makes smart trades. The Yankees seem to be able to find diamonds in the rough all the time. Meanwhile, the Red Sox got a good streak out Chavis. Sure, Devers is having a breakout year, but so are multiple players on the top teams.
Not at all. I'm just saying if CHB thinks its a good idea its probably not
Dombrowski's first draft brought in Groome, who missed a year with TJS but has since returned, and Dalbec. The 2017 draft admittedly doesn't look good, but half of their top picks were high school players. It's still too early to judge the 2018 and 2019 drafts.
DD was good at trading prospects and writing checks. He traded most of the farm and spent all the money.
My fear was the blockbuster Devers for Miggy trade and DD getting the old gang together.
And I'm half serious.
And the MFY's as a comp, please?
Let's show some humility and sense
Cashman was the model for baseball by checkbook.
Until he copied Theo and Billy Bean's homework.
and got extraordinarily lucky when his team as originally built all ended up on the IL.
DD wasn't as lucky when his two aces turned to useless jokers.
My fear was the blockbuster Devers for Miggy trade and DD getting the old gang together.
And I'm half serious.
And the MFY's as a comp, please?
Let's show some humility and sense
Cashman was the model for baseball by checkbook.
Until he copied Theo and Billy Bean's homework.
and got extraordinarily lucky when his team as originally built all ended up on the IL.
DD wasn't as lucky when his two aces turned to useless jokers.
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I look at the Rays differently given their recent success isn't quite on par with the other teams mentioned. Also due to their financial situation, they were forced to move good young players and I tip my hat to the organization as that has worked out very well for them. They are almost always in a semi-rebuild as it's what they need to do to be competitive and again hats off to them as they have done well with this formula. Is what Houston and LA have sustainable given their success these past couple of seasons? Will we see them have difficulties maintaining their farm systems if they don't move current talent for highly touted prospects? Isn't that where the Sox were a couple of years ago with Betts, Benitendi, Bradley, Bogarets, Vazquez and to a lesser degree Devers and Chavis as they are a couple of seasons removed from the others? Most of this is rhetorical as it's all yet to play out and you very well may be correct, but we'll see. As I have said in other threads, I don't necessarily advocate moving Betts, but that may be the opportunity to begin replenishing the system.
In the old McLaughlin Group mode "CORRECTAMUNDO!" - If you make cars and the market is looking for a fancy design guy, you hire a fancy design guy to come up with fins, new colors, accessories, etc. If the market is crying out for fuel efficiency then you hire the fuel efficiency expert. DD is not the guy to construct a rebuild of the farm system and turn over rocks to find undervalued talent. This is just a very cold, but entirely foreseeable market adjustment. It sucks for him but I have the feeling that somewhere in the near future, with a G&T in his hand and a sunset on display over the horizon, he'll get over it. He deserves thanks and best wishes - he did a great job last year - but that is not the job that needs to be done next year.
Was. And I'd argue that most of the big signings from 2000 to 2010 were thrown on him by leadership. It wasn't until he got full power of the organization that things began to change.
I don't think it's necessarily "ownership." It could be one or two people, like subordinates to Kennedy, e.g.
It will be interesting to see if HOU, LA, STL, and MFYs can continue their player development streak. Conventional wisdom is that drafting/player development is not a skill - unless a team can leverage a competitive advantage like the big market teams did a decade ago by using payroll to sign multiple overslot guys or more recently as some teams did before the international signings were hard capped.
I know that HOU - and those who come from the HOU line (like Mike Elias) believe that they have found a secret sauce to player development and if they have, good for them. But as of this moment, there is no surer way to rebuild a club than multiple top 10 (or better) draft picks.
Yeah? Well, you are not doing this right. Beeks for Eovaldi: in the two years Beeks has been with TBR he has an 11-3 record, getting paid just over the MLB minimum (and not eligible for 1st arbitration until 2022) while Eovaldi has gone 4-3 in that time and is signed from 2019-22 for $68 million.
Espinal for Pearce: got promoted to AA to AAA at the end of this season (.317 AVG in 112 PA). At his age (24), he may not have much of an MLB career ahead of him but Pearce, who has a $13.5 million contract will be 37 next April and has a grand total of 99 PA with the Red Sox. There is a lot more of this that can be done, money-wise and possibly player-wise, from your list but we have to go grocery shopping shortly.
There's nothing wrong with spending $, it was the Y's one real advantage, and they used it to bludgeon most other teams for years.
And they'll use it again to re-up the new core whatever (Judge, Sanchez, Torres, fill-in the blank)
And checkbook baseball was the primary reason they won in 2009, when they loaded up again with CC, and Teixeira, and spent $500 million (whatever)
Cashman won the power struggle with Torre in what 2007, and George was senile. Cashman ran the show for the Steiny kids.
Cashman is a very good (and lucky and fortunate) GM, but to argue that Cashman was a pioneer in baseball analytics is revisionist history.
And we all know the real accounting is 1 championship this century for the Ys.
Topic for another thread but 1) I didn't make any argument that the Yankees are pioneers and 2) I'm not sure what your point is besides trying to shit on the Yankees.
Pearce has a 6.5 million contract and is gone in 3 weeks. And the ring those two produced isn’t entering into your equation.
Crow you came here yesterday to troll about DD's firing and tout Cashman and the Ys as models for other teams to emulate. But today when challenged about Cashman's reliance on checkbook baseball, you seem to say the first half of his career he was merely a puppet for Steinbrenner and we should only judge him by his performance since 2010. OK in 10 years he won 1 championship that he spent $500 million to secure.
And if I wanted to shit on the Ys I would have referred to them as the MFY.
I was being polite in mixed company
If you want the complete list, I will copy and paste my post on an earlier thread. Let me know if there is anyone you would rather have than the 2018 World Series trophy:
Just running down the list of players that Dombrowski traded away (mostly chronological order):
Alejandro De Aza: Out of baseball.
Logan Allen (Kimbrel): Struggling in his call up to the Padres, and was since traded to Cleveland. Still only 22, but future role is unclear.
Carlos Asuaje (Kimbrel): Since released, and now in Arizona's minor league system. 27.
Javy Guerra (Kimbrel): Career minor league line of 0.237/0.290/0.374/0.665. Had a cup of coffee with Padres last season.
Manuel Margot (Kimbrel): Probably the most exciting prospect in the Kimbrel trade, has had 3 mostly meh seasons with the Padres with career OPS+ of 90.
Jonathan Aro (Carson Smith): Bouncing around the minors.
Wade Miley (Carson Smith): For the most part, he's been decidedly average since he was trade. But he is having a nice season for the Astros right now.
Wendell Rio (Aaron Hill): Bouncing around the minors.
Aaron Wilkerson (Aaron Hill): Who cares.
Jose Almonte (Brad Ziegler): Unable to get above A-ball.
Luis Basabe (Brad Ziegler, Chris Sale): Ditto.
Anderson Espinoza (Drew Pomerantz): Little Pedro hasn't thrown a pitch in anger in nearly 3 years. He'll likely be 22 if/when his career resumes. This name should be mentioned whenever someone claims that Tommy John surgery is routine nowadays and so should not raise any concerns.
Pat Light (Fernando Abad): Who cares.
Victor Diaz (Sale): Out of baseball.
Michael Kopech (Sale): Rehabbing from Tommy John surgery. If we blame DD for picking up a pitcher that gets hurt, should we credit him every time he trades a pitcher that gets similarly injured?
Yoan Moncada (Sale): Having a good season under the radar for the White Sox.
Josh Pennington (Thornburg): Single A player at 22.
Mauricio Dubon (Thornburg): Had 2 major league at bats before being traded for Pomeranz.
Travis Shaw (Thornburg): Has cooled off significantly after 2 breakout seasons.
Yeison Coca (Thornburg): Completed the Thornburg trade. 20 y/o in single-A.
Clay Buchholz (Josh Tobias): Has had 5 starts for the Blue Jays this season. With a 6.57 ERA.
Gregory Santos (Nunez): Was 17 at the time of the trade. In single-A, but obviously a long way from sniffing the majors.
Shaun Anderson (Nunez): One of Dombrowski's draft picks. Has started 15 games for the Giants this year, but his numbers do not indicate his presence would solve what ails the Sox this season.
Gerson Bautista (Reed): Became part of the Cano trade. Throwing strikes seems to be an issue (9.5 BB/9 is pretty bad, albeit in only 13 innings).
Jamie Callahan (Reed): Since released by Mets, now in low minors for the Giants at 24.
Stephen Nogosek (Reed): It's obviously too early to conclude anything from the 6 ML innings he's pitched in relief for the Mets this season. But based on his minor league numbers he likely seems to be slated for mid-bullpen type role (think Hembree as his ceiling).
Rafael Rincones (Rajai Davis): Has a 0.788 OPS this season at age 19. Only problem is that it is in rookie league.
Deven Merrero (Josh Taylor): In the Miami organization after 78 nondescript at-bats for the D-Backs last season.
Roenis Elias (Eric Filla): Still amazed at the angst at the time he was DFA'd due to a roster crunch during a 108-win season. Did find a role as middle-bullpen guy with Seattle before his trade to the Nats.
Santiago Espinal (Pearce): Hit 5 dingers for the Fisher Cats this season. Too bad the guy the Sox got for him didn't amount to anything in October.
Jalen Beeks (Eovaldi): Established middle reliever for the Rays.
Williams Jerez (Kinsler): Now with the Giants after posting a 71 ERA+ for the Angels last season.
Ty Buttrey (Kinsler): Doing a good job as solid late reliever for the Angels.
The overall point seems fair, but including Houston in any list like this isn't, given their major league performance from 2009-2014.
After following the Tigers pretty closely for the last decade, I was terrified of DD the moment he was hired...and, to paraphrase Dennis Green, he was who I thought he was. When it comes to spending money and "going for it", DD is a champ. He knows how to assemble top talent and surround it with reliable veterans needed to compete. What DD has not shown the ability to do in over 20 years is build a farm. His teams draft badly, do even worse internationally, and with the exception of JD Martinez (in Detroit) he's not got much of an eye for underhyped or overlooked players either. DD builds a core, and that is the team...it's sustainable only as long as the core itself is retainable. Add in the fact that he once again showed an inability to build a proper bullpen, and it seemed clear to me that Dombrowski learned nothing from the mistakes he made while running the Tigers. I was really worried that as long as DD was in charge of the Sox, we were going to barrel towards the same fate as Detroit...wringing everything we could out of our current core, but with a sharp precipice and a deep, long valley to follow.
I have zero regrets to see Dave headed out the door. I'm glad he brought the team a championship, but I'm pretty certain the trajectory was only going downwards the longer he stayed in charge. Here's hoping that whomever is brought in as the next GM returns full attention to the farm, and particularly the international scene. You don't necessarily need top dollar to get talent internationally: the Yankees have gotten guys like Severino or Deivi Garcia for 200K, and those aren't huge outliers. What you need is good scouts and a strong player development system, and DD was not the guy to build either of those. The top teams in the AL have all built elite development systems and have deep pools of talent to call from...the Red Sox have an uphill battle to fight to close that gap.
I have zero regrets to see Dave headed out the door. I'm glad he brought the team a championship, but I'm pretty certain the trajectory was only going downwards the longer he stayed in charge. Here's hoping that whomever is brought in as the next GM returns full attention to the farm, and particularly the international scene. You don't necessarily need top dollar to get talent internationally: the Yankees have gotten guys like Severino or Deivi Garcia for 200K, and those aren't huge outliers. What you need is good scouts and a strong player development system, and DD was not the guy to build either of those. The top teams in the AL have all built elite development systems and have deep pools of talent to call from...the Red Sox have an uphill battle to fight to close that gap.
Anytime a Yankees fan posts in this forum doesn't mean its a troll. Everyone seems to be capable of having a discussion based around what I said except you, so I'll digress and stop commenting on your posts. The Sox have done an unbelievable job the last two decades but are in a tough position next year. Saying that isn't a trolljob.
Not so sure that the W-L record for Beeks and Eovaldi are what you want to pin your position on. Beeks has had moderate success as a bulk reliever and that role seems to be where he's best suited ATM as The Rays don't see enough there to make him a starter and you don't seem sold on Espinal. IMO the Sox don't win the World series without the regular and post season contributions from Eovaldi and Pearce. I'm more than OK with those to deals. Heading into the season, I can see the Eovaldi deal raising some eyebrows, but not Pearce. We never got to see the 1B platoon we expected due to injuries to both Pearce and Moreland, but I didn't see this as an over pay at all and as mentioned a couple of posts up thread, Pearce was on a one year deal.
Not surprised by the timing - ownership no doubt realized what a huge opportunity AB to the Pats and the start of the NFL season offered and seized it. They were going to get ridiculed no matter when this came out, so why not do it when most fans will be preoccupied with football and the local media will quickly move on from ridiculing the Sox?
JWH and company are still paying for the error of not correctly recognizing Theo Epstein's true value and letting him feel so miserable that he jumped ship. Cherington would have been a great GM under Baseball Czar Theo's watch and there never would have been a need to overreact to Ben's shortcomings and hire Dombrowski. My hope is that they identify the next Epstein or Friedman or Beane and do what is necessary to hire them and give them the control they will need.
Also, no one should feel even the slightest bit bad about this happening to Dombrowski - he clearly had no issue in negotiating with the Sox four years ago when his hiring would have led (and did lead) to a young GM getting demoted/dismissed less than two seasons removed from winning a title.
JWH and company are still paying for the error of not correctly recognizing Theo Epstein's true value and letting him feel so miserable that he jumped ship. Cherington would have been a great GM under Baseball Czar Theo's watch and there never would have been a need to overreact to Ben's shortcomings and hire Dombrowski. My hope is that they identify the next Epstein or Friedman or Beane and do what is necessary to hire them and give them the control they will need.
This is spot on - people are focusing on Shank's writings, but Henry's quotes earlier this year about the size of the payroll spoke the loudest. The HanRam and Panda deals got Cherington fired. The 2018 run was amazing but I have no doubt that ownership expected at minimum to be in serious contention through 2020 - DD was brought in as a mercenary IMO despite the past history with Henry and did not have the juice to survive this year's faceplant and worries about wasting the potential last year of the current core in 2020.
Also, no one should feel even the slightest bit bad about this happening to Dombrowski - he clearly had no issue in negotiating with the Sox four years ago when his hiring would have led (and did lead) to a young GM getting demoted/dismissed less than two seasons removed from winning a title.
I did not suggest that anytime a Y-fan posts in a Sox forum its trolling. Thats a bullshit argument on your part.
I read your post re the Sox midnight massacre (which I endorse-I was not a DD fan) and an organizational rebuild and touting the Ys and Cashman as a model to emulate as trolling. Which is fine, its part of the game here.
But I challenged your take. which you addressed, by suggesting we shouldn't judge Cashman's entire tenure and we should heavlly discount the first half of his career. So I addressed that as well.
If you found anything incorrect or not truthful in my posts about Cashman and the Ys please feel fee to respond in any manner you like.
can't say that i'm sad. never liked the guy.
i think henry just wasn't comfortable with the state of the organization. he likes the theo type gm and he like's a good minor league system (perceived at least) and less payroll. not sure how he expected anything less for dave, though.
i think henry just wasn't comfortable with the state of the organization. he likes the theo type gm and he like's a good minor league system (perceived at least) and less payroll. not sure how he expected anything less for dave, though.
Right, that's the thing with the trades for rental players: you can evaluate it based on how well they were doing that year, whether they kept it up (e.g. Larry Andersen - he helped us get to the playoffs!), and whether what you traded away ended up rising substantially in value. You're only buying a rental, so the question of opportunity cost (as with a major FA signing) is a lot lesser of a concern.
Pearce worked out pretty well as a rental. Seemed perfectly plausible for $6.5M in 1 year. You can criticize the signing, but relative to a Carl Crawford type deal, the impact to the franchise was a lot less - you can very easily get over a non-performing Steve Pearce.
Eovaldi's deal is closer to the middle of that spectrum. What his final $ / WAR works out to has a lot of time to change. Early returns aren't great, it's true, but at the time of the signing most people here were in favor of it. Of course, the signing was the second of two decisions - perhaps a fairer question to evaluate DD on is, was the initial trade for him wise? I'm not sure we win the WS without him. Maybe we do, maybe we don't, but he certainly made a big impact. For my qualitative assessment of how he affected our championship equity last year, I'm perfectly comfortable giving up Jalen Beeks. Not thrilled, but that's the way it works sometimes.
Then you need to factor in one additional consideration: teams with a budget like the Red Sox, which is like 5 teams in baseball, have to spend that money somewhere. Our evaluation of "good value for money" isn't going to be the same as Cleveland's, to say nothing of Tampa's. Only among the pool of current and pending FAs do we have the ability to really throw our budgetary weight around, and so in order to get better or stay at the same rough level of team quality, sometimes we need to overspend. It's tough to argue that "David Price isn't worth $30M/yr!" is a fireable offense for DDski, when it's clear that Price is adding value and had a pretty good chance of being worth his deal at the time of signing, and moreover there weren't really better options to spend it on.
Why? This is the type of thinking that hamstrings you in later years. Also, having extra money to add payroll at the trade deadline is a good thing.
They should be making sound investments, not just spending money to spend money.
Speier raises an interesting point that I overlooked: it not so much that he traded prospects who turned out to be too good; it's -- at least with respect to the Kimbrel deal -- that he included 4 guys, where it might have only taken 2, and the other two could have been used elsewhere. And similarly that he bid against himself for Price. I suppose neither were egregious overpays, but a few in each category can have an impact on future flexibility.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2019/09/09/confront-new-challenges-red-sox-sought-new-leadership/EiXgVScjvItfZKrVVR7dvN/story.html
https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/redsox/2019/09/09/confront-new-challenges-red-sox-sought-new-leadership/EiXgVScjvItfZKrVVR7dvN/story.html