December 2019 General NBA Game Thread

HomeRunBaker

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Look at LeBron and these Lakers telling all of their nonbelievers were they can go! B2B strong efforts against quality teams to start their road trip.
 

DJnVa

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Meh. The refs are looking elsewhere on that play and the carry was irrelevant.


Three refs aren't supposed to be looking elsewhere. One is always on the ball. The relevance of it is immaterial. You enforce the basic rules of the game. Should the dude that walked inbounds a few weeks ago have been allowed to because no one was guarding him closely?
 

GoDa

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He just grab the ball and jog to mid-court... then do that euro-step meme all the way to the bucket.

50/50 if anything would be called.

In all seriousness... refs should just be fired or the NBA should make a statement and let everyone just know it's the WWE.
 

benhogan

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Celtics get the Lakers Jan 20th which is nice since no one wants to play them now.

Utah is catching a beat down
 

HomeRunBaker

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He just grab the ball and jog to mid-court... then do that euro-step meme all the way to the bucket.

50/50 if anything would be called.

In all seriousness... refs should just be fired or the NBA should make a statement and let everyone just know it's the WWE.
This is a bit extreme. WWE is scripted with the results determined prior to the match. The official obv missed LeBron's egregious travel but no advantage at all was gained by his move.
 

GoDa

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This seems a bit excessive. Refs are going to miss calls.
How about a short suspension of the crew? Something. Send a message. There are missed calls... and then there are things that are just absurd and make people laugh at the league.

This wasn't any old missed call. The ref was staring right at Lebron. He literally just chose not to call a travel or double-dribble.
 

GoDa

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He actually wasn't staring at him, for you can see him turn his head when the defender protested
I have access to the video, too. If you don't think he was watching Lebron stroll down the court (I do), then suspend him for that.
 

Kliq

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It's not a big story, although I do think there is something to be said for it being a bad look for the league, even if it ended up being completely inconsequential to the game's final result.

This was brought up a few weeks ago after the 49ers returned a last-second fumble for a TD at the end of a game. The TD didn't change the result of the game; the 49ers were already winning when it happened, but under the letter of the law, the play should have been reviewed because it was a turnover and a scoring play, and that replay would have revealed that a player was clearly down before advancing the football, bringing the TD back. Now, the game was already over and the sidelines were already emptying onto the field, so the refs shrugged their shoulders and called the game without any meaningless review taking place. No big deal right?

Well, that garbage time TD allowed San Francisco to cover the spread; so to some people it was very big deal. You might just say that a bad beat like that is part of the risk you take when you gamble; but as leagues begin to embrace legal sports betting, as the NBA certainly has, little infractions like missing an obvious travel are things that you can't just shrug off if it impacts the line of a game.
 

jmcc5400

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Nice loss for the 76ers. Hopefully Houston tags an L on the Raps and the Cs have a profitable night off
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Westbrook is 5-23 deep into the fourth tonight. His shooting is essentially a career worst thus far this season and that was before tonight's Toronto homebuilding spree.
 

Kliq

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Wizards really drafted well with Hachimura, he played 43 minutes tonight against that frontline, had 27 on 11-18 shooting. Very composed, fundamentally sound rookie.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Wizards really drafted well with Hachimura, he played 43 minutes tonight against that frontline, had 27 on 11-18 shooting. Very composed, fundamentally sound rookie.
Maybe teams are going to figure out that being able to play the game of basketball is a more important skill than how high someone jumps.
 

Kliq

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Westbrook is 5-23 deep into the fourth tonight. His shooting is essentially a career worst thus far this season and that was before tonight's Toronto homebuilding spree.
Just a classic Westbrookian game. He goes 7 for 27 with 8 turnovers...but he also has 13 rebounds and 11 assists, and is +7 for the game in a good road win over Toronto.

Maybe teams are going to figure out that being able to play the game of basketball is a more important skill than how high someone jumps.
I think there is something to being a really good college player, who is undervalued in the draft because they are older and may lack certain physical tools. Especially guys who get better year to year in college. A player might be 22, but if they show serious improvement each year in college, that shows a strong work ethic with the knowledge and ability to get better each season; as opposed to a freshman who might not have shown anything. Kemba is a perfect example; not much of a player as an underclassmen but got better and better, by his senior season he was one of the best players in the country, and now into his late 20s, he is still showing serious year to year improvement. The same can be said for other players who ended up being draft steals, like Damian Lillard, JJ Redick, Fred Van Vleet, Buddy Hield, etc. All players who were knocked for being "older" and lacking elite size/athleticism, but actually ended up having great potential for improvement because they had already shown the ability to work on their game and make leaps year-over-year.
 

CJM

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Just a classic Westbrookian game. He goes 7 for 27 with 8 turnovers...but he also has 13 rebounds and 11 assists, and is +7 for the game in a good road win over Toronto.



I think there is something to being a really good college player, who is undervalued in the draft because they are older and may lack certain physical tools. Especially guys who get better year to year in college. A player might be 22, but if they show serious improvement each year in college, that shows a strong work ethic with the knowledge and ability to get better each season; as opposed to a freshman who might not have shown anything. Kemba is a perfect example; not much of a player as an underclassmen but got better and better, by his senior season he was one of the best players in the country, and now into his late 20s, he is still showing serious year to year improvement. The same can be said for other players who ended up being draft steals, like Damian Lillard, JJ Redick, Fred Van Vleet, Buddy Hield, etc. All players who were knocked for being "older" and lacking elite size/athleticism, but actually ended up having great potential for improvement because they had already shown the ability to work on their game and make leaps year-over-year.
On a recent episode of Bill Simmons’ Book of Basketball 2 Podcast*, Daryl Morey said that older college players were a draft inefficiency that the Rockets and others teams had looked at and one he thought that was still operative. Nothing about year-to-year development though.

*as a sidenote, it’s a fun listen. I’d only heard pop culture Simmons recently and had forgotten how much focus and detail he can bring to basketball talk.
 

Kliq

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On a recent episode of Bill Simmons’ Book of Basketball 2 Podcast*, Daryl Morey said that older college players were a draft inefficiency that the Rockets and others teams had looked at and one he thought that was still operative. Nothing about year-to-year development though.

*as a sidenote, it’s a fun listen. I’d only heard pop culture Simmons recently and had forgotten how much focus and detail he can bring to basketball talk.
On the most recent Dirk episode, they were going over the 1998 draft and they mentioned that Michael Olowokandi was 24 when he was taken number one. 24! Could you imagine that happening today?
 

Sam Ray Not

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Speaking of older college players, the top rookie right now per the Kia/NBA rookie ladder is #41 pick Eric Paschall. https://www.nba.com/article/2019/12/05/2019-20-kia-rookie-ladder-dec-5?collection=rookie-ladder

1. Paschall, GS
2. Nunn, MIA
3. Morant, MEM
4. Hachimura, WAS
5. Barrett, NYK

The nice thing with Paschall is he’s a bit of an athletic freak too, strong as bull with a 38” max vertical at the combine (#3 among forwards and centers). Draymond in the link above talks about how good he’ll be when he learns how to play the NBA game, which is a little ironic since he already has twice the scoring chops Draymond has ever had.

I want to give Bob Myers credit for the hit, but I’m actually more pissed that he picked Jordan Poole at #28 (who he probably could have gotten in Paschall’s spot) and allowed 12 teams to get a crack at EP before he serendipitously fell into their laps at #41.
 

lovegtm

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Am I wrong to be skeptical of the Bucks? It seems like, in contrast to other contenders like the LA teams, their big point differential is completely based on Giannis being a force + a default base defense that dominates most teams in the league. In the playoffs, you can scheme to load up on Giannis in various ways, and the Bucks start to run into the same problem that the Rockets did when they didn't have enough diversity after Harden.

Yes, I'm aware that their net rating is awesome, but we already saw how that story played out last year.

I'm not saying they're frauds or can't come out of the East or that Toronto or Boston or Philly are better teams. It just feels like people are prematurely ejaculating over their regular season performance and metrics.
 

DJnVa

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In the playoffs, you can scheme to load up on Giannis in various ways, and the Bucks start to run into the same problem that the Rockets did when they didn't have enough diversity after Harden.
This is not a post to argue, but just a question---if you can scheme to stop Giannis in June, why would you not try to do the same in December? Not to give it away? Not enough time? Regular season doesn't matter?
 

HomeRunBaker

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Maybe teams are going to figure out that being able to play the game of basketball is a more important skill than how high someone jumps.
Lots of teams have figured this out. They are the teams who passed on guys like Giannis, Siakam, and Kawhi while drafting Staukas, Bender, and Jimmer Fredette. Sure glad Danny didn't fall for the Bender crap over Jaylen.

Having said that......I'm not sure I wouldn't place Hachimura's physical profile in that upper tier as he does have excellent length for his position and is also in the upper tier athletically. The limit to his upside actually IS more of his basketball skills in that he isn't a great one-on-one player and probably not being exposed as much for this being in DC with not much defense being played in their games.
 
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lovegtm

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This is not a post to argue, but just a question---if you can scheme to stop Giannis in June, why would you not try to do the same in December? Not to give it away? Not enough time? Regular season doesn't matter?
Not enough time, 7-game series where you can repeat the same thing is different, playoff teams have better personnel, and so on. It's the same reason non-shooters can be more playable in the regular season.

It's one thing to know you have to do X against Giannis (show bodies/hands at the FT line, help at the right times, etc) and another to install it when you're flying in that day from the Chicago game a night before.

Side note: this is also my personal theory on why "play harder" is often an adjustment that works in the playoffs. If you've just played a team in Game 1, you now know the exact ways in which you need to play harder.
 

HomeRunBaker

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This is not a post to argue, but just a question---if you can scheme to stop Giannis in June, why would you not try to do the same in December? Not to give it away? Not enough time? Regular season doesn't matter?
Not enough time or urgency so yes really some of both. In the regular season if you have 3-4 games in one week along with some travel they carry equal weight whereas in the playoffs you play only that team and have days off in between to scheme while the stakes are obviously much higher.
 

benhogan

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Am I wrong to be skeptical of the Bucks? It seems like, in contrast to other contenders like the LA teams, their big point differential is completely based on Giannis being a force + a default base defense that dominates most teams in the league. In the playoffs, you can scheme to load up on Giannis in various ways, and the Bucks start to run into the same problem that the Rockets did when they didn't have enough diversity after Harden.

Yes, I'm aware that their net rating is awesome, but we already saw how that story played out last year.

I'm not saying they're frauds or can't come out of the East or that Toronto or Boston or Philly are better teams. It just feels like people are prematurely ejaculating over their regular season performance and metrics.
defensive walls like (1) Bron, AD, Howard/McGee (2) George, Leonard, Harrell (3) Simmons, Horford, Embiid can all slow down playoff Giannis....then there are smart coaches like CBS or Spolstra that could always come up with something clever.

During the regular season, the rest of the league is in trouble, and the Bucks will pile up 65 wins. BUT the teams they plan on going through for a championship will be there waiting.

The more the Bucks depend on Giannis, the easier they are to scheme IMO. Even Jordan needed Pippen, who is the Bucks Pippen?

Also anecdotally whenever I turn on a Bucks game George Hill is doing something awesome, that OG is due for some regression ;)
 
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wade boggs chicken dinner

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Speaking of older college players, the top rookie right now per the Kia/NBA rookie ladder is #41 pick Eric Paschall. https://www.nba.com/article/2019/12/05/2019-20-kia-rookie-ladder-dec-5?collection=rookie-ladder

1. Paschall, GS
2. Nunn, MIA
3. Morant, MEM
4. Hachimura, WAS
5. Barrett, NYK

The nice thing with Paschall is he’s a bit of an athletic freak too, strong as bull with a 38” max vertical at the combine (#3 among forwards and centers). Draymond in the link above talks about how good he’ll be when he learns how to play the NBA game, which is a little ironic since he already has twice the scoring chops Draymond has ever had.

I want to give Bob Myers credit for the hit, but I’m actually more pissed that he picked Jordan Poole at #28 (who he probably could have gotten in Paschall’s spot) and allowed 12 teams to get a crack at EP before he serendipitously fell into their laps at #41.
Jordan Poole can be the Hayden Hurst of the NBA. :)
 

Kliq

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defensive walls like (1) Bron, AD, Howard/McGee (2) George, Leonard, Harrell (3) Simmons, Horford, Embiid can all slow down playoff Giannis....then there are smart coaches like CBS or Spolstra that could always come up with something clever.

During the regular season, the rest of the league is in trouble, and the Bucks will pile up 65 wins. BUT the teams they plan on going through for a championship will be there waiting.

The more the Bucks depend on Giannis, the easier they are to scheme IMO. Even Jordan needed Pippen, who is the Bucks Pippen?

Also anecdotally whenever I turn on a Bucks game George Hill is doing something awesome, that OG is due for some regression ;)
If they are playing the Celtics; Giannis is actually the Pippen to Khris Middleton's Jordan.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Jordan Poole can be the Hayden Hurst of the NBA. :)
Hah. I haven't given up all hope on Poole — he's not even 20.5 and seems to have a good feel for the game and decent enough physical tools. But for now I definitely think of him as "The Tank Commander." When your only real NBA calling card is shooting and you're rocking a 38% true shooting in nearly 600 minutes played ... you really help your team rack up the Ls. Never thought I'd actually be longing for Jacob Evans (who's apparently coming back from his injury shortly, possibly tonight v. the Bulls).
 

ifmanis5

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Bizarrely, Fizdale spoke today about the future of the franchise. The Dolan Regime does everything last minute with no organization of forethought. No way they get a big name coach to replace him.

I mean, look at this story from earlier today: https://nypost.com/2019/12/06/david-fizdale-survives-as-knicks-coach-for-now/
“I’m still coaching this team,” Fizdale said after the Nuggets debacle. “I’m still pushing them, still preparing them. We had a hell of a practice before this one.”
 

chilidawg

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Speaking of older college players, the top rookie right now per the Kia/NBA rookie ladder is #41 pick Eric Paschall. https://www.nba.com/article/2019/12/05/2019-20-kia-rookie-ladder-dec-5?collection=rookie-ladder

1. Paschall, GS
2. Nunn, MIA
3. Morant, MEM
4. Hachimura, WAS
5. Barrett, NYK

The nice thing with Paschall is he’s a bit of an athletic freak too, strong as bull with a 38” max vertical at the combine (#3 among forwards and centers). Draymond in the link above talks about how good he’ll be when he learns how to play the NBA game, which is a little ironic since he already has twice the scoring chops Draymond has ever had.

I want to give Bob Myers credit for the hit, but I’m actually more pissed that he picked Jordan Poole at #28 (who he probably could have gotten in Paschall’s spot) and allowed 12 teams to get a crack at EP before he serendipitously fell into their laps at #41.
Not surprising that experienced college players might look better out of the gate than 19 year old wunderkinds. That list is likely to look much different in 3 years.
 

ElUno20

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This bucks team is perfectly built to get put out early in the playoffs.
 

Sam Ray Not

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What’s going on with Kawhi this season? We’re more than 1/4 through and he’s still scoring at well below league-average efficiency.

Do we have to wait till Giannis and Harden get rings before saying they’re the two best players in the league?
 

Buster Olney the Lonely

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Steven Adams just threw a full court baseball pass to Dennis Schroeder with two seconds on the clock, OKC down two to the Wolves. Schroeder converts the layup. Buzzer sounds. OT.

Schroeder also hugged a police officer who was courtside.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Steven Adams just threw a full court baseball pass to Dennis Schroeder with two seconds on the clock, OKC down two to the Wolves. Schroeder converts the layup. Buzzer sounds. OT.

Schroeder also hugged a police officer who was courtside.
Thank you - flipping over to this.

Edit: Just saw the replay. That was sick. Schroder didnt just hug the cop. He screened him beforehand and almost knocked the cop off his feet. Then the hug!