I saw the point you were making, and it's valid. I wasn't simply replying to you, this idea that Jeter should refuse his Gold Gloves, etc. has been made quite a few times in this thread.
I should have been more clear.
Derek Jeter: Countdown to Retirement
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I should have been more clear.
Fair enough. And for the record, I wouldn't expect anyone to turn down an award or accolade no matter how undeserving. Has any professional athlete ever "refused" an award?
And you fail to understand the context of the posts. No one demands or expects that he give back a GG; but when a Yankees fan pops in and states that he didn't go to the All-Star game to give those more deserving priority, it's a natural point to bring up (i.e., why wouldn't he do the same for his other blatantly undeserved awards?).
And every single one of them have been made in reply to terrynever's original post.
If terrynever doesn't make the absurd claim that Jeter backed out of the ASG because something mystical in his character doesn't allow him to accept undeserved awards, we're not having this conversation.
Hank Aaron Awards (really, are you serious about that one) are not more prestigious than anything. There's only about 16 people who know what they are. And I dont think you can say for sure whether an All-Star berth is mroe prestigious than a GG. For the players, I think many of them like the 4-day paid vacation to hang with many of their baseball buddies and be on the same team with them.
I'm not sure a player can "turn down" a Gold Glove. Its not like there's an event that he can decline to attend. Its an announcement made in the middle of January via press release. I dont think he even gets a phone call like the HoF does. Hell, there's a real possibility that a player doesn't even know he's won until some time after it takes place. And besides, that clause in paragraph 937 of his contract -- the one that says he gets an extra wing for his house if he wins a GG -- his agent made sure that it was not written in invisible ink and that there was no "only if you deserve it" clause.
What I meant by prestigious was that those awards go to fewer players and thus are harder to win.
The concept of prestige is subjective anyway. But, to me, being one of two or one of eighteen would feel more prestigious than being one of 80 in a popularity contest.
The lifetime achievement player of the week award. Nice. Jacoby didn't need it, anyway.
Anyone notice Jeter's day game night game splits? They're absurd
in 84 day time at bats he has .926 ops and in 205 night time at bats a .581.
in 84 day time at bats he has .926 ops and in 205 night time at bats a .581.
That's a good question. There are credible cases for, say, Brady, Manning, Montana, Marino, Elway, Tarkenton, Baugh, Graham, Unitas, Young, Starr, and Staubach ahead of him, depending on how you measure things. And I suppose you could construct cases for guys like Bradshaw as well. But there are also decent cases for having him in the 6-10 range.
How do you rate peak vs. sustained level? Do era adjustments make you say someone wasn't an alltime great, or do they make the list for dominating their time even if you don't think they'd be competitive today? And which of the old-timers would still be competitive today? How much do clutchiness and titles matter, or having good/bad teams around you? It's a lot of the same arguments we get into for HOF debates, though possibly the answers are a little different in football.
He is getting old and can't see as well at night. His steely blue eyes aren't true blue and don't suffer like Hamilton's in the day.
But then we never have this conversation. I'm just trying to find out what Red Sox fans think. It has been interesting. Jeter is who he is and he will wear pinstripes for two more seasons. My hope is he bows out gracefully. My dreams are he finishes strong.
The only reason I come here is to see what you guys think. I already know what my feelings are. Thanks for the input. Bottom line: Let's see what happens in October, if the Yankees are good enough to get there.
As far as backing out of the ASG. Jeter joined teammates CC and Mo as well as Alex. i think this is a result of the Yankees organizational opposition to having home field dictated by the ASG result.
John Harper in the Daily News on Tuesday, stated that he believes the team with the best record surviving the playoffs should have home field. This feeling is probably a good reflection of the sentiments of the yankee front office.
I realize Alex couldn't go as he elected to have surgery Monday.
The fact that the other Yankees didn't even bother to appear whether thay expected to play or not seems to reflect an organizational decision.
Then again , maybe they didn't want to steal the spotlight from the Yankees' newest stars Cano and Granderson.
John Harper in the Daily News on Tuesday, stated that he believes the team with the best record surviving the playoffs should have home field. This feeling is probably a good reflection of the sentiments of the yankee front office.
I realize Alex couldn't go as he elected to have surgery Monday.
The fact that the other Yankees didn't even bother to appear whether thay expected to play or not seems to reflect an organizational decision.
Then again , maybe they didn't want to steal the spotlight from the Yankees' newest stars Cano and Granderson.
Why is John Harper a good reflection of Yankee sentiments? I mean, it's possible but I've never understood him to be especially close with the Yankee FO or a shill for them.
Either way, if a player decides not to play in the game for whatever reason, is not available because he pitched on Sunday or cannot play because of injury, staying home and getting a fuller break is arguably the better move. The absence of three veteran players could reflect that view. And as a team that could be in the WS, the Yankees would be pretty stupid to express their opposition in this way, at least as it pertains to keeping Rivera out of the game.
Maybe the Yankees are just saving their bullets for the games that count. Rivera is 41, Jeter is 37. CC has pitched a ton of innings already this season. A-Rod turns 36 soon and hopes to be back from surgery by mid-August.
Bill Russell's final few Celtics teams, which were somewhat long in tooth, were famous for conserving their energy for the playoffs. They stole a title in Russ's final season. The Yankees might be trying to do the same thing.
Bill Russell's final few Celtics teams, which were somewhat long in tooth, were famous for conserving their energy for the playoffs. They stole a title in Russ's final season. The Yankees might be trying to do the same thing.
Another issue with unlocking MLB achievements is that they are often specific contract incentives (Top 3 finish in MVP voting, winning the Cy Young, etc). And if they aren't, they still increase a player's leverage when negotiating with the club. And as we have seen in this case with Intangibles 3K, it also burnishes his public perception (i.e. more ballwashing).
Of course his public perception index can also dip, when (for example) taken to task for playing hooky from the ASG.
True, but it is strange that of the 84 (!!) players selected to both teams, 79 of them attended, and 4 of the other 5 were Yankees (plus Chipper Jones).
A-Rod is understandable, the other three are a bit more dubious, Mariano especially (I don't mean playing, just attending). I have no problem with it personally, I think the All-Star game is kind of a waste of time and don't think I've ever watched a full one, but it is odd that so many of the no-shows were Yankees.
I think the that once Derek and Mo said they weren't going CC (who had no plans at all of even being on the team let alone attending) found it even easier to say no. Alex has a valid excuse, but Jeter and Mo have been there every time they were asked while countless others decided not to go this time they said no thanks. I see not real harm in it and prefer that they rest up.
Then maybe the front office that built this geriatric roster should be encouraging its fans to vote for players other than Yankees, if their organizational philosophy is that they should not compete every year. Not handing out ballots in the stadium would be a good place to start that effort next year....
I just think that Jeter was a special situation in this case. I don't really have a problem with selected guys staying home if they can't participate in the game. But after all of the hype and attention the 3k chase created, this was one time when a guy should've showed up, even if just to be introduced, sit in the dugout, and do a couple of interviews. That would've been the classy move, and we're always reminded of how classy Jeter is. It's not fair to lump Sabathia, Rivera, ARod, or anyone else with Jeter in this particular instance. When Jeter wins the vote next year and he wants to go to FL for three days to rest a sore muscle, that will be fine with me.
But plenty of people were suggesting that he ought to pick up a phantom injury rather than play in place of a player obviously having a much better season. Then he does exactly that (albeit in an hilariously sissy manner and not necessarily the for that exact motive) he's 'disrespecting the game.' I don't get it, and if it were anyone but Captain Calm Eyes, I'd probably care.
Why is this so complicated? He can be injured and not play but still show up for the ceremonies. What is it about this situation that you find so confusing and think people can't have it both ways? Braun was injured and didn't play but he was there. Why couldn't Jeter at least show up even if he wasn't going to play due to his mental exhaustion?
The problem with Jeter is not so much that he was injured but that he didnt belong there. He made reference after his 3K hit that the negative talk about him was bothersome. I have to think some of that negative talk was him being elected as starter (or at all) to the all star team.
No, the problem is that he was selected to be on the team and right after a historic moment when all of baseball was talking about his achievement he decided to fly to Florida instead of Arizona. If some negative talk about his selection upset him so much that he couldn't handle being introduced an a non-participant and at least make an appearance to let MLB acknowledge him then he's got serious issues.
Unlike JA I don't have the ability to read the minds of Yankee personnel, but my guess is that he was tired, sore, and simply didn't feel like going so he bailed. He has every right in the world to make that choice, but then he opens himself up to criticism, which in this case I think is 100% justified.
Unlike JA I don't have the ability to read the minds of Yankee personnel, but my guess is that he was tired, sore, and simply didn't feel like going so he bailed. He has every right in the world to make that choice, but then he opens himself up to criticism, which in this case I think is 100% justified.
So Jeter got a little sand in his vajayjay and decided he'd rather not get more sand in there?
Why lash out at a player who clearly didn't deserve to be on the all-star team and in the end turned down the invite? I find that something to applaud. It's not like Jeter was going to show up and not start. Any calf excuse would be a lie and everyone would know it. It's not like he had any calf injuries while going 5 for 5 with a HR 24 hrs before the first half was winding down. Hopefully Jeter's consistent and turns down the invite next year when he's elected by Yankees fans despite having a 300/400/700 split (is that split being too optimistic??).
I also don't have any issues with guys not able to start (CC) not showing up. What's the point really? So you can tip your cap for four seconds when they introduce your name? Who gives a rats ass?
I also don't have any issues with guys not able to start (CC) not showing up. What's the point really? So you can tip your cap for four seconds when they introduce your name? Who gives a rats ass?
OK, I'll bite. What could possibly qualify as a "nefarious" reason for missing the All-Star Game?
"I can't make it to Phoenix. I need all the off-days I can get to carry out the contract killings that I've scheduled."
The possibilities are limited only by our collective imaginations.
Your suggestion works. Robbing a bank in Miami works. "Minka is out of town and ___________ wants me" also works.
Setting aside the tongue-in-cheek, my main point was: just because he didn't deserve to go does not mean that he turned down the invitation for that reason.
Just let it go. This is just another chapter in the "see how gracious and awesome and selfless and reasonable and hopey/dreamy Jeter is so stop picking on him" saga.
Come on! You know they'd do something more favorable to the team.....like give him a 3 year contract with 2 player options.
Yeah, he had a few good games. He's also .254/.318/.373 over his last 15 games, even though 3 of those good games are in that stretch.
He's had a few more extra base hits since he's come back, but he's also been striking out more (16k in 20 games). We'll see if that continues as the sample gets bigger. I wonder if he's making a conscious effort to hit the ball harder at the expense of some contact.
Ozzie Guillen and the players he talks to, think you all are haters.
http://sports.yahoo.com/video/player/news/Graham_Bensinger_InDepth/26116779;_ylt=AvH4UH.J7Ibq2HYCxiAbjlc5nYcB#news/Graham_Bensinger_InDepth/26116779
Ha.
http://sports.yahoo.com/video/player/news/Graham_Bensinger_InDepth/26116779;_ylt=AvH4UH.J7Ibq2HYCxiAbjlc5nYcB#news/Graham_Bensinger_InDepth/26116779
Ha.
It makes sense when you realize that the White Sox might be the only team in the AL with a worse leadoff hitter.
Great, that'll get him another full year at the leadoff spot.
I'm fighting the urge to say his two 5/5 games are helping skew the sample size but he HAS actually been hitting with a bit more authority and on some sort of consistent basis as well.
He had the big hit tonight, a two run triple he crushed into the right-center gap, and is now at .319/.373/.449 in 154 plate appearances since coming off the DL. His D seems better too, he's even making the occasional play on the other side of second base (!!!!).
I'm telling you, Jon, his contract is going to turn out to be a bargain. He knew what he was talking about when he asked for 5/100.
Jeter is still a decent hitter when he doesn't try to pull everything. I'd be curious to know his numbers at the leadoff spot vs batting second.
Code:
Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB ROE BAbip tOPS+ sOPS+
Batting 1st 71 71 336 305 45 84 14 2 4 27 9 3 24 43 .275 .333 .374 .707 114 8 4 0 3 0 6 .307 98 98
Batting 2nd 25 25 111 95 16 29 3 1 0 16 4 1 10 11 .305 .376 .358 .734 34 1 2 2 2 0 0 .337 106 110His overall numbers since coming off the DL were strong enough that I didn't even think of looking at his splits, but RAB had them today and wow (not counting tonight):
LHP: .500/.538/.750 in 39 PA
RHP: .265/.327/.353 in 115 PA
LHP: .500/.538/.750 in 39 PA
RHP: .265/.327/.353 in 115 PA
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