#DFG: Canceling the Noise

Is there any level of suspension that you would advise Tom to accept?


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JimBoSox9

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Harry Hooper said:
I will have to see the transcript, but I believe Kraft upped the ante and said that if the investigate can't prove something, then he wants an apology. He's doesn't want the NFL to wriggle away with an "inconclusive" finding and widespread grumbling.
 
Ya, he pretty much put Goodell in the position of issuing a guilty finding or an apology.  We're far past the point of being able to eliminate the post facto character assassination, but Kraft just put a serious crimp in it. 
 

TSC

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djbayko said:
 
This is getting ridiculous.
  • How the hell do they know what the temperature was when they inflated the balls?
  • Even a thermostat-controlled room fluctuates by a few degrees over time.
  • It doesn't even matter, if the refs performed their job and measured and inflated the balls...presumably in a room that was also at room temperature.
Dude. Step away from the computer for a bit.
 

djbayko

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Harry Hooper said:
I will have to see the transcript, but I believe Kraft upped the ante and said that if the investigate can't prove something, then he wants an apology. He's doesn't want the NFL to wriggle away with an "inconclusive" finding and widespread grumbling.
 
That's exactly what he did.  "Definitive" proof or a full apology.  It's officially a pissing match.
 

Harry Hooper

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I was watching on CSNNE, so can someone give me a rational explanation for the NFLN cutting away midway through the press conference?
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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djbayko said:
 
 
This is getting ridiculous.
  1. How the hell do they know what the temperature was when they inflated the balls?
  2. Even a thermostat-controlled room fluctuates by a few degrees over time.
  3. It doesn't even matter, if the refs performed their job and measured and inflated the balls...presumably in a room that was also at room temperature.
 
 
I was joking.  
 

Leather

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Harry Hooper said:
I was watching on CSNNE, so can someone give me a rational explanation for the NFL cutting away midway through the press conference?
Afraid they'd get their ass kicked some more.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Credit to this group of reporters, they tried some veiled questions about ballghazi but they wised up quick. Nothing but football questions.
 

Kull

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Based on everything we've heard so far, the NFL has been looking desperately for something for over a week now. And they have nothing that proves tampering occurred. So the NFL has only two ways out:
 
1) "Prove you are innocent": They will painstakingly document the journey of the balls from the moment they left the locker room until they returned at the half. Any time periods in which cameras are not showing the balls, will be added together and summed up to arrive at some ridiculously large amount of "unmonitored time" in which "tampering could have occurred" They will state that measurements show the pressure did decrease between the first and second measurements and they will find the Pats liable, because it's their responsibility to ensure the balls are not tampered with and there's no "logical explanation". They will ignore ALL science. Thinking people everywhere will be appalled at this gross lack of fairness and due process, but 90% of the nation will explode in an orgasm of delight. Some combination of Fines, Draft pick losses, & Suspensions will be imposed. Veiled threats will be made to the Patriots that you accept this result, or worse will follow.
 
2) "We can't prove anything and there are Laws of Physics reasons that could explain the change": In this case the NFL will come up with every piece of evidence they can find to keep the mouthbreathers at bay. Science will be a huge part of the explanation, and it will be documented in excruciating detail. 90% of the viewing public will refuse to believe it course, but that gets the Pats off the hook.
 
I always held a firm belief that scenario number 2 was the only logical outcome, but the constant drip of incriminating-sounding details (and ONLY those details) suggests that certain elements in the league offices want to poison the well and make it impossible for the NFL to find the Pats innocent. It is not inconceivable that Goodell will be so afraid of the firestorm arising from a "not guilty" ruling that he'll opt for #1 simply because he feels that's safer for him personally.
 

JimBoSox9

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drleather2001 said:
Afraid they'd get their ass kicked some more.
 
I'm trying to adhere to my Occam's cut of mild and inconsequential ref/league incompetence, but it's hard to look at events of the last 48 hours and not come to the conclusion that we're watching nothing less nor more than a good old-fashioned corporate media turf war.  If the NFL never wanted this fight in the first place, we're officially scripting a mafia flick.
 

bankshot1

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Hey SoSH lawyers if Kraft really gets pissed is there a case to make that the NFL conspired with certain other teams to defame the Pats, and if so is that type of conspiracy subject to RICO charges?
 

Hoya81

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Have a feeling that Roger Goddell is in danger of turning Kraft into a modern day Al Davis and facing a thorn in his side for the next decade.
 

P'tucket rhymes with...

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Harry Hooper said:
I will have to see the transcript, but I believe Kraft upped the ante and said that if the investigate can't prove something, then he wants an apology. He's doesn't want the NFL to wriggle away with an "inconclusive" finding and widespread grumbling.
Sounded like a man with a very good idea of what they have, and where the leaks are coming from.
 
Have a feeling that Roger Goddell is in danger of turning Kraft into a modern day Al Davis and facing a thorn in his side for the next decade.
 
Roger is going to be the answer to a trivia question a decade from now.
 

njnesportsfan

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Jan 21, 2015
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Kull said:
Based on everything we've heard so far, the NFL has been looking desperately for something for over a week now. And they have nothing that proves tampering occurred. So the NFL has only two ways out:
 
1) "Prove you are innocent": They will painstakingly document the journey of the balls from the moment they left the locker room until they returned at the half. Any time periods in which cameras are not showing the balls, will be added together and summed up to arrive at some ridiculously large amount of "unmonitored time" in which "tampering could have occurred" They will state that measurements show the pressure did decrease between the first and second measurements and they will find the Pats liable, because it's their responsibility to ensure the balls are not tampered with and there's no "logical explanation". They will ignore ALL science. Thinking people everywhere will be appalled at this gross lack of fairness and due process, but 90% of the nation will explode in an orgasm of delight. Some combination of Fines, Draft pick losses, & Suspensions will be imposed. Veiled threats will be made to the Patriots that you accept this result, or worse will follow.
 
2) "We can't prove anything and there are Laws of Physics reasons that could explain the change": In this case the NFL will come up with every piece of evidence they can find to keep the mouthbreathers at bay. Science will be a huge part of the explanation, and it will be documented in excruciating detail. 90% of the viewing public will refuse to believe it course, but that gets the Pats off the hook.
 
I always held a firm belief that scenario number 2 was the only logical outcome, but the constant drip of incriminating-sounding details (and ONLY those details) suggests that certain elements in the league offices want to poison the well and make it impossible for the NFL to find the Pats innocent. It is not inconceivable that Goodell will be so afraid of the firestorm arising from a "not guilty" ruling that he'll opt for #1 simply because he feels that's safer for him personally.
The problem of scenario 1 is that the league can be sued by injured parties (which are not limited to NEP).
 

McBride11

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Kull said:
Based on everything we've heard so far, the NFL has been looking desperately for something for over a week now. And they have nothing that proves tampering occurred. So the NFL has only two ways out:
 
1) "Prove you are innocent": They will painstakingly document the journey of the balls from the moment they left the locker room until they returned at the half. Any time periods in which cameras are not showing the balls, will be added together and summed up to arrive at some ridiculously large amount of "unmonitored time" in which "tampering could have occurred" They will state that measurements show the pressure did decrease between the first and second measurements and they will find the Pats liable, because it's their responsibility to ensure the balls are not tampered with and there's no "logical explanation". They will ignore ALL science. Thinking people everywhere will be appalled at this gross lack of fairness and due process, but 90% of the nation will explode in an orgasm of delight. Some combination of Fines, Draft pick losses, & Suspensions will be imposed. Veiled threats will be made to the Patriots that you accept this result, or worse will follow.
 
2) "We can't prove anything and there are Laws of Physics reasons that could explain the change": In this case the NFL will come up with every piece of evidence they can find to keep the mouthbreathers at bay. Science will be a huge part of the explanation, and it will be documented in excruciating detail. 90% of the viewing public will refuse to believe it course, but that gets the Pats off the hook.
 
I always held a firm belief that scenario number 2 was the only logical outcome, but the constant drip of incriminating-sounding details (and ONLY those details) suggests that certain elements in the league offices want to poison the well and make it impossible for the NFL to find the Pats innocent. It is not inconceivable that Goodell will be so afraid of the firestorm arising from a "not guilty" ruling that he'll opt for #1 simply because he feels that's safer for him personally.
But now that Kraft, one of the most influential owners and Goodell supporters, has laid down the law, Goodell and the NFL seem to have a much finer like to walk. Eg, option 1 will result in a full fledged response.
 

ernieshore

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Harry Hooper said:
I was watching on CSNNE, so can someone give me a rational explanation for the NFLN cutting away midway through the press conference?
 
I was watching and it seemed they realized BB was only going to be answering game-related questions, so there was no need to actually cover that.  
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Hoya81 said:
Have a feeling that Roger Goddell is in danger of turning Kraft into a modern day Al Davis and facing a thorn in his side for the next decade.
If that comes to pass (Kraft as a thorn), Goodell isn't going to have another decade in the job. He'll be lucky to last a year under such conditions.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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bankshot1 said:
Hey SoSH lawyers if Kraft really gets pissed is there a case to make that the NFL conspired with certain other teams to defame the Pats, and if so is that type of conspiracy subject to RICO charges?
 
I would think the agreement between member clubs and the NFL is pretty restrictive with respect to that kind of stuff, and there are probably other agreements with respect to discipline and the like that cede significant authority to the league and the commissioner.  We saw what the NBA's contract with clubs looked like in the Donald Sterling mess, and I think the NFL's probably is similar.  
 

garzooma

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It will be worth finding out what happened with the ball attendants on other home games.  If there was a one-off delay in the Colts game which can be attributed to the start of the game being pushed back, it would be strong evidence that there was no policy in place to tamper with the footballs.
 

8slim

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I flippin' LOVE that Kraft doubled down.

By 6:30pm on Sunday I think every Pats fan to a man is going to be whipped into a frenzy and be maniacally out for blood.
 

Hoya81

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Marbleheader said:
How long before the next leak? Goodell must be getting tired of writing those checks to Jay Glazier
Wells' statement made it seem like there should be no more leaks from the league office.
 

8slim

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I love 21st century media... "Sources say some guy is on video doing something. Sources don't know what. Or why. Or how. But it's definitely something. Probably. Maybe."
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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I wonder how much Goodell has been involved to this point.  Kraft may have been trying to send the message that Rog needs to get control of his house and to stop letting the axe grinders kill the Patriots with paper cuts by dribbling out information.
 

Harry Hooper

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Hoya81 said:
Wells' statement made it seem like there should be no more leaks from the league office.
 
And that means more than when the Commish tells them not to leak?
 

JimBoSox9

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DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
I wonder how much Goodell has been involved to this point.  Kraft may have been trying to send the message that Rog needs to get control of his house and to stop letting the axe grinders kill the Patriots with paper cuts by dribbling out information.
 
If that was the message that needed to be sent, it could have been done with a phone.
 

Kull

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McBride11 said:
But now that Kraft, one of the most influential owners and Goodell supporters, has laid down the law, Goodell and the NFL seem to have a much finer like to walk. Eg, option 1 will result in a full fledged response.
 
I was penning that before Bob's comments, so yeah he apparently was picking up the same vibe and made it crystal clear that unproven guilt won't be accepted. Still not entirely convinced the NFL won't walk through that door anyway. Goodell and his minions suck at absolutely everything.
 

Steve Dillard

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Pretty sure that Kraft's message was code to the ballboy to keep quiet if he knows what's good for him. I'd expect a tweet from Glazer or King in short order that Wells will now add "witness tampering" to the investigation.
 

RetractableRoof

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JimBoSox9 said:
 
If that was the message that needed to be sent, it could have been done with a phone.
No. The continued leaks are a public statement to Kraft. His response had to be public as well. We're tired of being screwed with message.
 

JimBoSox9

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Here's the real controversy: Brady changed into that ridiculous white poncho after getting off the plane and before the PC.  I'm reading that as a deliberate message.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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JimBoSox9 said:
 
If that was the message that needed to be sent, it could have been done with a phone.
 
I think Kraft is too smart to open himself up to a complaint that he called the commissioner during an investigation to talk about it.  Can't do that.
 

Laser Show

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If the Pats somehow lose Sunday, I'm starting to wonder if it could hurt just as much or more than the one we don't talk about. I know it's an outlandish thought but we need this one now.
 

BigJimEd

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Great to finally hear Kraft speak up. Needed to stick up for his franchise.

Some might argue this is good for the NFL but I don't see a good argument this is good for the Patriots as a business.
 

Harry Hooper

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ernieshore said:
 
I was watching and it seemed they realized BB was only going to be answering game-related questions, so there was no need to actually cover that.  
 
 
Thanks.
 
 
For all anybody knows right now, the attendant paused to pick up a rain poncho on his way out. Would be a riot if he used the OT delay to grab a smoke of one kind or another.  
 

Obstructed View

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Kraft's statement, for the record:
 
“Given the events of the last week, I want to take a minute to address the air pressure matter before we kickoff this week’s media availability. I have spoken with Coach Belichick. I have spoken with Tom Brady. I’ve taken the time to understand to the best of my abilities what goes on in the preparation of game day footballs. I want to make it clear, that I believe unconditionally that the New England Patriots have done nothing inappropriate in this process in violation of NFL rules.
 
“Tom, Bill and I have been together for 15 years. They are my guys. They are part of my family and Bill, Tom and I have had many difficult discussions over the years and I have never known them to lie to me. That is why I am confident in saying what I just said. It bothers me greatly that their reputations and integrity, and by association, that of our team has been called into question this past week.
 
“As I said on Friday in my prepared statement, we welcome the league’s investigation and the involvement of Attorney [Ted] Wells. I am confident this investigation will uncover whatever the facts were that took place last Sunday and the science of how game balls react to changes in the environment. This would be in direct contrast to the public discourse which has been driven by media leaks, as opposed to actual data and facts. Because of this, many jump to conclusions and made strong accusations against our coach, quarterback and staff, questioning the integrity of all involved.
 
“If the Wells investigation is not able to definitively determine that our organization tampered with the air pressure in the footballs, I would expect and hope that the league would apologize to our entire team, and in particular Coach Belichick and Tom Brady for what they’ve had to endure this past week.
 
“I’m disappointed in the way this entire matter has been handled, and reported upon. We expect hard facts, as opposed to circumstantial leaked evidence to draw the conclusion of this investigation. In closing, I would like to say to all the fans of the National Football League, and especially the amazing fans of the New England Patriots, that I and our entire organization believe strongly in the integrity of the game, and that the rules of fair play, are properly, equitably and fairly enforced. Thank you.”
 
http://itiswhatitis.weei.com/sports/newengland/football/patriots/2015/01/26/robert-kraft-defends-patriots-says-nfl-should-apologize-if-league-finds-them-not-guilty-of-any-wrongdoing/
 

McBride11

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Kull said:
 
I was penning that before Bob's comments, so yeah he apparently was picking up the same vibe and made it crystal clear that unproven guilt won't be accepted. Still not entirely convinced the NFL won't walk through that door anyway. Goodell and his minions suck at absolutely everything.
Well that is absolutely true.

Rog, Rog dont touch that stove, it's hot!
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