#DFG: Canceling the Noise
- Thread starter nattysez
- Start date
I hear ya, but I'm done being baited by idiots. That's how they win. Sometimes you just have to shake your head, smile, and embrace the courage of your convictions. I don't have time to argue with idiots anymore, never mind let them get under my skin. It hasn't always been this way, but let me tell ya, it's really fucking liberating.JimBoSox9 said:
And everything you say about Belichick is true. I don't need bitter assholes to agree with me to know that, though it's kind of sad that "football fans" and "media experts" choose to try to drag him down rather than appreciating just how amazing the run he's overseen has been. Sad for them, though, not me.
E5 Yaz said:
This will sound worse than I intend, but who cares? It's like you're trying to hold yourself above this, but you have 400+ posts in here and there are no facts in.
This message board would be boring as shit if there were no discussion until after the facts come out. No trade discussion. No FA discussion. No draft discussion. So if you ask us what we think, some will venture forward an opinion. All of us understand that we don't know 100%.
I think I may have underestimated how people read E5 Yaz.
He's saying that the Patriots are not likely to be vindicated in the court of public opinion. And I would expect that he will be proven correct.
As I posted a few days ago, at best, they are The A-Team.
He's saying that the Patriots are not likely to be vindicated in the court of public opinion. And I would expect that he will be proven correct.
As I posted a few days ago, at best, they are The A-Team.
riboflav said:
So if I predicted the score of the Super Bowl as 21-17, NE that doesn't mean that I have utmost confidence that's actually going to be the score. We're discussing things on a discussion board and making guesses. This is why we're here.
Stich and others saying that they believe BB, Brady, and Kraft isn't some out of LF opinion. I think we all know there are other possible outcomes.
My question in all of this...what happens if it comes out that the balls were indeed at the bottom end of the psi allowance, but due to air temperature fell to below by half time? Is that still cheating? Can the NFL say that the Pats should have known that would happen?
New Deflategate theory: Colts deflated ball after D'Qwell Jackson's pick http://t.co/jJZz3pRnC5
— ProFootballTalk (@ProFootballTalk) February 7, 2015
— ProFootballTalk (@ProFootballTalk) February 7, 2015
They can say whatever they want, but anyone with half a brain should know that would happen, and the NFL could make it a rule if they wanted it to be a rule, and they didn't, so how is it cheating to not anticipate a rule that doesn't exist and that they've never even pretended existed before?
Here's the 'full' Schefter quote:
It doesn't sound to me like he's implying this theory has any more weight than the one being espoused by your local bartender. It sounds like he's trying to give a non-answer beyond 'ya everyone has a theory and I've heard that one too'.
It doesn't sound to me like he's implying this theory has any more weight than the one being espoused by your local bartender. It sounds like he's trying to give a non-answer beyond 'ya everyone has a theory and I've heard that one too'.
I agree. I just wonder if Goodell will interpret the rule in a way that allows him to still punish the team.judyb said:
I personally don't think the Pats did anything wrong and that nature did it's thing... It just seems like a lot of people have already ignored that PSI goes down in cold weather..so why would they start paying attention to it now?
I imagine it's also the way things have been done for years. The alternative would be compensatorily adding more air to the ball on cold days. I doubt anyone was doing this.drleather2001 said:
SumnerH said:
Well, I am not accepting this as gospel. Let's wait until the facts come out.
In all seriousness, nothing matters until or unless the NFL actually comes out with something definitive and its not on a Friday afternoon. The news cycle is on to Brian Williams and his channeling of Sebastian Junger now. The Patriots are cheaters, and they were rewarded for being all cheaty. Unless President Obama and Kim Kardashian hold a joint news conference before the Grammys that fully exonerates the Patriots, nobody who hates them is going to think otherwise. Schefter tidbits or not...
DrewDawg said:
That's not all, and that's not why E5 called him out. He got called out not for believing that the Pats are innocent, but for proclaiming such a degree of confidence as to either predict that everything in the report is bullshit that won't show otherwise or dismiss it as such a priori.
riboflav said:
The reason I have some confidence is simple--the Patriots, in the form of BB, TB. and Kraft have come out and, in addition to stating that they did nothing wrong, have made a set of statements that could very easily be proven false if in fact they did do something wrong. And, in fact, they're the only party to this whole sad affair to have done something like this. Everything else I've read is either anonymously sourced, or is a mealy-mouthed statement (such as the official NFL statements).
In addition to this, we have pretty plausible explanations of how balls could lose pressure in a perfectly legal and innocuous way.
So what's the most likely explanation given that set of facts? It really comes down to what you think is more likely: 1) Kraft, BB, and TB are so stupid, or risk-taking, that they would deliberately and unnecessarily put themselves in this position, or 2) there is some other explanation for what happened, such as either the balls naturally lost pressure due to temperature and other changes, the measurements were all screwed up, the Colts let a little air out of one ball that they intercepted, etc.
I look at 1) and 2) given what we know about Kraft/BB/TB through long experience and don't see how 2) isn't vastly more probable than 1)
EDIT: None of this has anything to do with the credibility of Kraft or Belichick or Brady. I'm perfectly willing to believe they could lie through their teeth and I wouldn't be able to tell the difference. What I AM fairly certain of is that they are pretty intelligent based on what we've all observed.
The best thing - particularly the last bit about BB - that I have read on this in a long while.JimBoSox9 said:
He's making an assumption based on his interpretation of what he's observed.E5 Yaz said:
You are simply not making any assumptions.
But you're kinda acting like he said he 'knows for a fact'.
It's fine but it's already a dead issue, no?
the important thing about the schefter assertion is not that the Colts might be responsible, but that it further supports the idea that the league has absolutely nothing on the pats. this theory, likely or not, wouldnt even be being considered by anyone in the league office if there was even a shred of evidence incriminating new england.
DrewDawg said:
There's a difference between being confident in an opinion and writing off the league report ahead of time as bullshit if it contradicts you. It's reasonable to ask what you've seen so far that would inspire the latter.
Schefter said some"people around league" believe the Colts tampered with the ball. That doesn't even come close to implying the league office. This could be coaches, players, or more likely reporters who actually are around the league, not in it.naclone said:
TheoShmeo said:
I'd say the same thing. It's irritating that it's part of the common wisdom that the Pats are cheaters, but people are way too sensitive in terms of how much the non-obsessed think about this/care about this.
E5 Yaz said:
yep.
snowmanny said:
Wait! LITERALLY burn Indy to the ground????? Isn't that just a bit extreme, Mister?
poor Wibi is never gonna live that one down.
I continue you to like what I'm hearing from Schefter. Consider a brief and cursory look at some of the non patriots affiliated media actors who have been prominently following this farce...
Kravtiz- His dead of night tweet "breaking" that the NFL was investigating was some red meat for his hurting Indy audience and his own personal hate of seeing the Colts beaten repeatedly by the Pats. He also cited the Tomase taping of walk throughs as his reason for going forward with it which shows his disconnection from truth and more a desire to see a cheating patriots conviction come true with his name emblazoned as the intrepid journalist who started the hunt.
Mort- His crucial role and the way in which his tweet was later followed with facts organized like a criminal complaint complete with the NFL's distraught and angry language. This report threw the gasoline on the report that Kravitz had thrown out there. I don't think Mort recovers from this IF the Patriots escape the irrational and unpredictable punishment hand of Roger the Incompetent. Mort's reporting on this and Schefter's have been extremely different. Schefter's vagueness is an obvious attempt to not further impugn his over eager colleague and the leaky league office.
Florio, King, Collinsworth, etc- The stubborn crowd who attempted for the better part of two weeks to say this damages the legacy of the one of the most successful operations in the sport. They also remain convinced that something that is acknowledged as pretty common given the custody of the balls since the rule change is an attack on the integrity of the shield because ,well, it's the Patriots.
RapSheet- He works for the NFL and his report can be read as a direct refutation of Mort at the World Wide Leader. Criminally on the NFL's part that report came on the day of the Super Bowl instead of the week after Mort's.
I don't think it's unreasonable to be confident as a Patriots fan. Either way the seething mass of ideologues out there should not even sniff a suspension which is what they were eyeing when this nonsense was at it's height. I think if Goodell has any good people around him he'd realize the kraft bridge of good will is slicked with gasoline and he may need that bridge later because he's a pretty bad judge and jury.
The rational thing would be to change the ball custody rule or psi gaging process. Unfortunately Roger may be tempted to burn the bridge in which I'm sure Kraft, BB's, and TB12's response could , should, and will be "Good luck."
Kravtiz- His dead of night tweet "breaking" that the NFL was investigating was some red meat for his hurting Indy audience and his own personal hate of seeing the Colts beaten repeatedly by the Pats. He also cited the Tomase taping of walk throughs as his reason for going forward with it which shows his disconnection from truth and more a desire to see a cheating patriots conviction come true with his name emblazoned as the intrepid journalist who started the hunt.
Mort- His crucial role and the way in which his tweet was later followed with facts organized like a criminal complaint complete with the NFL's distraught and angry language. This report threw the gasoline on the report that Kravitz had thrown out there. I don't think Mort recovers from this IF the Patriots escape the irrational and unpredictable punishment hand of Roger the Incompetent. Mort's reporting on this and Schefter's have been extremely different. Schefter's vagueness is an obvious attempt to not further impugn his over eager colleague and the leaky league office.
Florio, King, Collinsworth, etc- The stubborn crowd who attempted for the better part of two weeks to say this damages the legacy of the one of the most successful operations in the sport. They also remain convinced that something that is acknowledged as pretty common given the custody of the balls since the rule change is an attack on the integrity of the shield because ,well, it's the Patriots.
RapSheet- He works for the NFL and his report can be read as a direct refutation of Mort at the World Wide Leader. Criminally on the NFL's part that report came on the day of the Super Bowl instead of the week after Mort's.
I don't think it's unreasonable to be confident as a Patriots fan. Either way the seething mass of ideologues out there should not even sniff a suspension which is what they were eyeing when this nonsense was at it's height. I think if Goodell has any good people around him he'd realize the kraft bridge of good will is slicked with gasoline and he may need that bridge later because he's a pretty bad judge and jury.
The rational thing would be to change the ball custody rule or psi gaging process. Unfortunately Roger may be tempted to burn the bridge in which I'm sure Kraft, BB's, and TB12's response could , should, and will be "Good luck."
SumnerH said:
This isn't how I interpreted Stich, and I think that's uncharitable. Stich is a gambler...and given the very bold proclamations, indignations, and declinations by Brady, BB, and Kraft, he is willing to bet that there has been no untoward wrongdoing on their part: "usque tandem abutere, Roðgarine, patientia nostra?" so to speak... E5 has, in his rôle as passive devil's advocate, suggested that the league might legislate for a crime unproven, *or* it might legislate for a crime discovered, and Stich is betting only that the latter nefarity will not come to pass...Stich, am I mistaken? Apologies if so...
I think we are all talking past each other. When I say "whatever bullshit is in the league report" I'm not saying there's nothing they could put in the report to show the Pats have cheated. I'm saying that because I don't think BB, Brady and Kraft are idiots or liars, I'm confident there isn't going to be any hard evidence in the league report. If the league want to dress the report up in bullshit about how an old guy took a piss and there was a ball under the limit so blah, blah, blah integrity blah blah lower burden of proof we are taking a third round pick, whatever. They could put in the league report video of the Colts deflating the footballs and the narrative that the Pats cheated isn't going to change among the muppets. Good for them, guarantee you I've had more fun watching football my entire adult life.
I've already said I could be naive and they all could be lying and I could be proven wrong, but going all in on fighting such a stupid minor infraction without knowing what happened would be a dumb and dishonest move by people who usually arent very dumb and dishonest. Since we have exactly as much evidence that the Colts did anything wrong as that the Patriots deflated the balls at this point and the bar for accusations has been set so low on this by, oh, every media outlet ever, fuck it, Colts cheated Pats are innocent. Come at me bro.
My guess? Based on the BB press conference, where he twice said something like "we told the refs to inflate the balls to 12.5 psi and then they did whatever they did" was that the Pats under inflated some balls and they were never inflated to 12.5. That's not against the rules and almost certainly common practice. League wants to slap a penalty on the Pats for that? Whatever, the league is run by morons. Still would be confident the Pats did nothing wrong if that's the outcome of the report.
I've already said I could be naive and they all could be lying and I could be proven wrong, but going all in on fighting such a stupid minor infraction without knowing what happened would be a dumb and dishonest move by people who usually arent very dumb and dishonest. Since we have exactly as much evidence that the Colts did anything wrong as that the Patriots deflated the balls at this point and the bar for accusations has been set so low on this by, oh, every media outlet ever, fuck it, Colts cheated Pats are innocent. Come at me bro.
My guess? Based on the BB press conference, where he twice said something like "we told the refs to inflate the balls to 12.5 psi and then they did whatever they did" was that the Pats under inflated some balls and they were never inflated to 12.5. That's not against the rules and almost certainly common practice. League wants to slap a penalty on the Pats for that? Whatever, the league is run by morons. Still would be confident the Pats did nothing wrong if that's the outcome of the report.
If it turns out that the Patriots have video of a Colts equipment guy sticking a gauge into a football - and the only reason they have this video is because Spygate forced them to move their cameras from ground level on the playing field to a skybox (where the high angle now captures activity behind the sidelines)? Well, that would be just about fucking perfect.
soxhop411 said:
Twitter sucks. As you can tell from listening to the audio, Schefter "said" this. And used his "holy shit, is this a stupid theory" tone of voice. But...
E5 Yaz said:
Hey! Someone actually provided context!!
Then you shitheels spent 50-odd posts ripping him for not being...something.
Just for reference, that's exactly how crazy people run their shit; hear a rumor, turn on the guy who provides a little proof, lather, rinse, repeat.
The lesson here is that when someone SAYS something outrageous...you should listen to the audio to find out he was giving it all the credence of a report that Ferris passed out at a 31 Flavors last night.
E5 Yaz said:
Uh....kinda important point for the "Colts did it!" crowd. But whatever, those of you crapping and squatting in this thread for 3 weeks now couldn't care less about facts. You just want something awesome for your echo chamber and innate sense of how much you've been wronged.
JimBoSox9 said:
HOLY FUCK! JimBoSox9 listened to the audio you guys!! And says the same thing EVERYONE who bothered to hear the audio thought - "this isn't a serious report. This is hogwash."
Thus ends today's "How to Take a Tweet Out of Context" lesson.
I agree with the overall sentiment, but you're not representing the discussion fairly. Almost immediately after the tweet was posted several posters questioned its veracity and whether Schefter's words were being taken out of context. Although several posters said they hoped it was true, I don't think anyone said that it was true, or that the Colts were cheaters. Several people (including yours truly) said that there was no evidence that the Colts had done anything wrong.soxfan121 said:
In hindsight, the tweet (which took Schefter's words completely out of context, as you pointed out) didn't merit the discussion it engendered.
So, after 3 weeks of this shit-storm, and the glorious 4th Lombardi that was just won, I've gone through all the stages of outrage/triumph, and arrived here:
I'm completely bemused, and somewhat appalled, at how much the NFL has become like a kindergarten playground. They cheated!! They're cheaters!! No fair, they're big cheating meanies!! Fuck off and die, everyone who is beating that drum. Stop deluding yourselves that you somehow have been, for decades, watching, covering, playing in, something akin to Pop Warner Football or the Boy scouts of America. This is ferociously competitive, win at all costs, big-boy sports/business. I no longer give 2 shits whether the Pats are guilty of anything here. I assume they're all pushing every envelope, trying to get every edge they can. I'm glad our team does it better than most.
I no longer give a fuck about what the rest of the world thinks of the New England Patriots. Seriously, who gives a fuck? Does it effect my enjoyment of watching them play every week in the fall, or how great this epic run of the last 15 years has been? No, it does not. So fuck "legacy", fuck media trolls, fuck bitter, moronic opposing fans on the internet, fuck hypocritical former players who can't stand the thought of someone else surpassing their accomplishments. Fuck. Them. All.
Finally, my only remaining interest is in hoping that the incompetent, over-compensating, weakling of a commissioner doesn't impose some completely arbitrary, over the top penalty(draft picks, suspensions) that hurts the Patriots on the field next year and beyond. I think that is looking less likely, but with him, who knows? Either way, as soon as the verdict comes in on this, I'm done. And will then turn my attention to the overall quest for No. 5, and the inevitable ritual-killing that awaits the Colts some Sunday Night during November sweeps next fall.
I'm completely bemused, and somewhat appalled, at how much the NFL has become like a kindergarten playground. They cheated!! They're cheaters!! No fair, they're big cheating meanies!! Fuck off and die, everyone who is beating that drum. Stop deluding yourselves that you somehow have been, for decades, watching, covering, playing in, something akin to Pop Warner Football or the Boy scouts of America. This is ferociously competitive, win at all costs, big-boy sports/business. I no longer give 2 shits whether the Pats are guilty of anything here. I assume they're all pushing every envelope, trying to get every edge they can. I'm glad our team does it better than most.
I no longer give a fuck about what the rest of the world thinks of the New England Patriots. Seriously, who gives a fuck? Does it effect my enjoyment of watching them play every week in the fall, or how great this epic run of the last 15 years has been? No, it does not. So fuck "legacy", fuck media trolls, fuck bitter, moronic opposing fans on the internet, fuck hypocritical former players who can't stand the thought of someone else surpassing their accomplishments. Fuck. Them. All.
Finally, my only remaining interest is in hoping that the incompetent, over-compensating, weakling of a commissioner doesn't impose some completely arbitrary, over the top penalty(draft picks, suspensions) that hurts the Patriots on the field next year and beyond. I think that is looking less likely, but with him, who knows? Either way, as soon as the verdict comes in on this, I'm done. And will then turn my attention to the overall quest for No. 5, and the inevitable ritual-killing that awaits the Colts some Sunday Night during November sweeps next fall.
Link to send people to who don't know what the ideal gas law is, taught by one of the best teachers ever:
https://www.khanacademy.org/science/chemistry/gases-and-kinetic-molecular-theory/ideal-gas-laws/v/deflategate-ideal-gas-law
https://www.khanacademy.org/science/chemistry/gases-and-kinetic-molecular-theory/ideal-gas-laws/v/deflategate-ideal-gas-law
You would think that if the NFL did have any smoking gun that they likely would have released it on Parade Day since they spent the 2 weeks leading up to the SB metaphorically pissing on our parade.
New polls!
Knowing what you know now:
Knowing what you know now:
- Does the SB win erase any lingering doubts about Pats wrongdoing?
- Who do you blame most for the Deflategate?
One Red Seat said:
Wells & Co. are running the show now. NFL HQ is not in the driver's seat at this point.