#DFG: Canceling the Noise
- Thread starter nattysez
- Start date
As expected RG stuck his finger in the wind and got the general non NE consensus that a suspension should definitely be the punishment. I would love to see if the process is reformed in anyway. If not, no reason for other teams not to continually bring deflation suspicions on a week to week basis.
Just pathetic.
Also this just means this infuriating clusterfuck of a story will drag on longer due to the inevitable Brady appeal.
Just pathetic.
Also this just means this infuriating clusterfuck of a story will drag on longer due to the inevitable Brady appeal.
If it were up to me I would have BB take every fucking ball out of play on each defensive snap all season long and DEMAND!! a gauge test each time.lars10 said:
It continues to amaze me how casually the concept of a multi-game suspension for Brady is being tossed around in the media, and how seemingly accepting people are of the concept. Particularly in light of the fact that there is a specific NFL rule on the books specifying that the discipline for intentionally tampering with balls after inspection should include, but not be limited to, a fine of $25K. I haven't heard this rule or the $25K fine mentioned at all by any of the talking heads speculating on Brady's possible punishment. Why? Granted, the rule explicitly allows for a penalty greater than $25K. But shouldn't the $25K fine at least be the starting point for the discussion (as opposed to a 2-6 game suspension, which seems to be the most commonly-speculated penalty I've heard)? Wouldn't Goodell exceeding the base penalty by a significant amount be something that people should at least strongly question? Shouldn't there be discussion of why Brady's particular infraction is so heinous that it merits a punishment far in excess of the base discipline called for in the NFL's own rulebook? Especially since Brady isn't actually being accused by Wells or the league of participating in the tampering, but merely being "generally aware" of it. What am I missing here?
And BTW, I'll just re-state yet again that if Brady's crime is merely being "aware" of improper ball handling, it's not even clear to me what actual NFL rule he would have violated.
And BTW, I'll just re-state yet again that if Brady's crime is merely being "aware" of improper ball handling, it's not even clear to me what actual NFL rule he would have violated.
This is why I think McNally may have needled them. Brady complained about the balls being overinflated and sometime they were, even past 13.5. They probably felt he's not going to complain if they are slightly under so let's just make sure we never have to hear him complain again. I just don't think Brady knew they were doing this. If he is so particular about the balls he would never put up with inexact needling leaving them with a random variances. He only cared about them being too high.geoduck no quahog said:
Gorton Fisherman said:
If there is a suspension in this case, it cannot be for the ball deflation. It would have to be for some more serious charge involving interference with the investigation/misleading the investigators.
Which of course then begs the question - why was there an investigation into this at all, when previous cases have been treated with a memo or a verbal reminder to knock it off.
Maybe BB is just as pissed at Brady as he is at the league. He made a passionate defense of his organization. Even if you question all or part of the report, there is plenty there for a coach to be concerned about.
But Brady isn't being suspended under the tampering of football rule. He's being suspended for violating the leagues policy on 'Integrity of the Game & Enforcement of Competitive Rules'.
I just made the same point in the punishment thread. They commissioned a fucking investigation that yielded a finding that Brady was probably aware that the equipment guys were fucking with the footballs. I honestly don't know what they hang a suspension on that doesn't cause the NFLPA to go nuts.Gorton Fisherman said:
I certainly get the PR problem for Brady and people will speculate that he was more involved than just being aware. But the investigation stops at that. What can they suspend him for?
soxhop411 said:
At least Myers's believes, based on his sources, that the suspension is likely to be on the lower end relative to the most dire predictions. He says at least 2 games likely, whether that's the original suspension length or it's a 3-4 games appealed down to 2 games. Full season suspension isn't even under consideration, 6-8 games unlikely.
He also seems to think both Belichick and the Pats organization as a whole could get dinged pretty heavily, although that seems to be speculation from Meyers rather than inside info.
ivanvamp said:
"Tom Brady failed to fully cooperate with Mr. Wells's investigation, despite being given multiple opportunities to do so. Further, Mr. Wells determined that it was more probable than not that Mr. Brady was aware that, in response to his insistence that balls conform to his preferences, team personnel were deflating footballs below the required PSI. Mr. Brady's actions harmed the integrity of the league and of the games in which Mr. Brady participated. The statements of Mr. Brady and his representative after Mr. Wells's report were released are inappropriate at best and, frankly, are mostly notable for what they lack -- an unqualified denial that Mr. Brady broke the rules. As a result of the foregoing, Mr. Brady is hereby suspended without pay for the first xx games of the 2015-2016 NFL season."
As was noted above, apparently everyone in the NFL who is aware of a player doing steroids, not wearing the required pads on the field, importing Galapagos tortoises or whatever who doesn't drop a dime to Roger will be headed for suspensions.
nattysez said:
It's absolutely unbelievable that they're going to let one of the game's all-time greatest players be suspended and publicly tarred-and-feathered over an issue this trivial.
Sorry if this has been posted elsewhere: N.F.L. SENTENCES BRADY TO A YEAR WITH THE JETS.
"I am going to fight this decision with every fibre of my being", Brady said.
"I am going to fight this decision with every fibre of my being", Brady said.
J.McG said:
Oh, good, a full season suspension isn't under consideration.
For maybe not telling the truth about something that maybe happened that definitely had no impact on the game.
soxhop411 said:
That's a lot. Boy, I wish he'd only cold-cocked a woman unconscious instead of probably being generally aware of what two chuckleheads were doing with footballs.
Captaincoop said:
You can say it is trivial ...and yes, they still win the game and the SB if the balls were OVER inflated...but, ya know ...changing the air pressure of footballs is really not a trivial thing .it gains a competitive advantage ...it just does....he put himself in a position to receive punishment...and a slap on the wrist and a 500k fine is not going to cut it ....he will be suspended, probably 4 games down to 2 games ...he will be fine ..the team will be fine..
I'm sure Cam was "generally aware" that his footballs were getting heated up as well.Captaincoop said:
geoduck no quahog said:
My stats knowledge is pretty rusty, but I'm pretty sure no responsible statistician would ever draw any conclusions from any sort of significance test where the sample size of one data set was 4.
genoasalami said:
Air pressure on footballs is so important that officials filled them up to 2.5 PSI over the limit on at least one occasion that we know of. Also, which position did Brady put himself in exactly? Care to elaborate on that?
This is all a joke, there isn't a single other sport in which this would be an issue, let alone if it involved arguably its all time greatest player. It's been a smear campaign from the beggining, where was all this diligence to obtain video of Ray Rice sucker punching his girlfriend? Fucking TMZ got their hands on that. We'll just take people at their words when it involves domestic violence, but when we're talking 0.5 PSI of deflation, Tom Brady better give up his cellphone, or he's not cooperating with this 4 month long investigation. Fuck the NFL and american media.
"The most cited piece of "evidence" is that the large range of deviations among the Pat's footballs supports a theory that they entered the game with psi's all over the place (i.e., what would happen if they were needled), versus the Colt's 4 (or 3) footballs which clustered together as expected since they all entered the game within a small range."
But the most compelling explanation for great variance among the Patriots balls at halftime is that they were taken early in the transition from outside 48 degree temperature to room temperature, at a time when the warmup was elevating the resulting pressures. Exponent ignored this most likely explanation. (The Colts balls were measured later, after temperature and pressure had reached steady state; thus smaller SD.)
But the most compelling explanation for great variance among the Patriots balls at halftime is that they were taken early in the transition from outside 48 degree temperature to room temperature, at a time when the warmup was elevating the resulting pressures. Exponent ignored this most likely explanation. (The Colts balls were measured later, after temperature and pressure had reached steady state; thus smaller SD.)
"Awareness" is not an "action". It is a non-action. You can penalize a non-action only if there is a duty to act. Management has that; players do not.
Now refusal is an action. And if they penalize TB for refusing to turn over e-mails or texts, that is is different issue.
Now refusal is an action. And if they penalize TB for refusing to turn over e-mails or texts, that is is different issue.
Checked on this. No, JJ is not around for the ref inspection.MuppetAsteriskTalk said:
McNally's only ball related jobs are to carry the bag of balls to the red locker room and then to the field. He does not prep the balls.
He does apparently tell the refs "remember, Tom likes them at 12.5".
Right, which is why Goodell could come out and give Brady a lifetime ban and I wont be that concerned. Its not going to hold up. Brady's agent is already laying the groundwork for the union to fight any bullshit obstructed the investigation charge as well.
Did someone on the Pats watch a GOT episode a day early or something?
Did someone on the Pats watch a GOT episode a day early or something?
dcmissle said:
I doubt the NFL can force a player to turn over their emails and texts unless they're using a company owned cell phone/ PC/mobile device.
Except the Wells Report does not contain a finding that he changed the air pressure in the footballs. I mean, you can't hire a high- priced white-shoe law firm to conduct an investigation, have them spend almost four months investigating, have them produce a massive written report complete with detailed findings about the key Patriots players, coaches and employees allegedly involved, and then suspend a player for something that the investigation does not conclude he was involved in.genoasalami said:
At the least, with a sample size that low you would switch to "non parametric" methods, which do not presume normal population distributions.speedracer said:
Exponent ' s use of t - testing is pretty laughable, given the absence of any logging of data to support its assertion that the starting pressures were uniformly 12.5. That would be a mean of 12.5 and an SD of 0.0. Say what?
This isn't exactly a thunderbolt after Myers report but I just heard the same thing from someone connected to one one the networks. And it wasn't based on Myers.
Suspension, amount to be determined.
Suspension, amount to be determined.
tedseye said:
Think the F-testing might be worse, i.e. the claims that sigma(Patriots' balls) > sigma(Colts' balls) at p=0.001 or whatever.
86spike said:
Thanks.
So it doesn't seem bad at all for Brady to bitch at JJ and for JJ to tell McNally to make sure the ref gets the pressure right. And Brady tells JJ he wants them at 12.5 PSI and asks for him to give them a copy of the rule book.
I don't see how they jump to any conclusions short of evidence (which I haven't seen) that Brady would have any clue McNally deflated balls (if he did). Brady never saw any texts about McNally being called "the deflator" far as we know.
Yes, of course. Goodell saw which way the wind was blowing on possible penalties, and now he has to gauge public reaction to know now many games it should be.DrewDawg said:
Duh!
TheoShmeo said:
The NFL's way of doing business is so annoying.
Reporters aren't getting this by hard-hitting reporting, right? They are getting it because it's being leaked to them as a trial balloon from the league. All this "integrity" talk. Sigh.
MuppetAsteriskTalk said:
This here really gets me. Do people believe Brady is the kind of guy to give the refs a copy of the rulebook to make sure the balls are to his liking, but then just go and order people to deflate them after inspection anyway? I mean, if you're "generally aware" of an operation set up to deflate balls after the fact, why even fucking bother being anal to the refs about your preferences regarding pressure? Just.. ugh...
Yeah, I vote no suspension.Ralphwiggum said:
I don't think Goodell and company want to go through an appeal on this. A fine, a harsh but somewhat vague statement and let the Wells report stand as definitive word.
Any suspension and Brady likely appeals and goes full throttle for his reputation.
But who knows with Roger.
Well yes. This is back in the NFL office, and it leaks like a sieve.
Bob Kraft is a smart and patient man. He is also a decent man, but decency has its limits.
Some day Goodell may need a life preserver from Kraft, and Kraft will let him drown. And when Goodell asks why, Kraft will say, you ran a bad ship.
Bob Kraft is a smart and patient man. He is also a decent man, but decency has its limits.
Some day Goodell may need a life preserver from Kraft, and Kraft will let him drown. And when Goodell asks why, Kraft will say, you ran a bad ship.
I'm sure this has been discussed numerous times already but couldn't the lower air pressure of the footballs be considered a competitive disadvantage (lower avg. velocity which allows a defender to reach the ball sooner ) as discussed in The Sports Science segment. ? I apologize if I royally fucked up the linking process.