#DFG: Canceling the Noise

Is there any level of suspension that you would advise Tom to accept?


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    208

yecul

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The thing to remember is that all this stuff is arbitrary and by the seat of their pants. Their motivation was to make a big show, try to humble them and to let them know who's boss. With public humiliation and a difficult-to-overturn punishment of cash and picks in the pocket it has always been the intent to decrease the suspension.
 
The other thing to remember is that these guys are dumb. They have put together a genius master plan where RG and TV can tag team. They get to make it look like a normal, unbiased, independent process and no one will ever guess it.
 
It's like a 6 year old plays hide and seek.
 
Brady's suspension was set at 4 games so it could be knocked down to 2. This will still offer a stiff penalty for the haters and placate the Pats (in his mind). Pat on the back Rog, another good day at the office.
 

dcmissle

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DrewDawg said:
Does Brady's actual appeal get released to the public?
At the RG level, you will get the decision but not anything else unless the parties leak.

At the court level, you'll have access to court filings like everybody else, and court proceedings will be open.
 

Eddie Jurak

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JimD said:
Do people really believe that the other NFL owners are willing to marginalize a guy like Bob Kraft - who has played an instrumental role in negotiating deals that have made them all a shitload of money - because of petty jealousy and a desire to prop up an empty suit like Goodell?  The league may be the quintessential Old Boy's Club, but most of these guys aren't that stupid.  
There is talk that some owners blame Kraft for a CBA that was too player-friendly.
 

BigJimEd

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MarcSullivaFan said:
That's not accurate. I've posted about this a number of times in this thread. It is very difficult to get a petition to vacate granted. The courts are highly deferential to the decisions of labor arbitrators--the function Goodell is serving here.

Brady will have arguments, and the fact that the appeal procedure in the CBA is essentially a sham may be very helpful. But it is always a tough row to hoe, so to speak. Remember, this is a collectively bargained process, as nutty as that may be.
good point. The fact that Goodell is hearing the appeal is not what Brady wanted nor is it good news.


I think some are forgetting this isn't just the league vs Brady/Patriots but also vs the NFLPA.
Neither side wants to set a precedent or be on the wrong side of it.
Brady and the PA don't want to set a precedent about turning over texts from private conversations. The commissioners office wants access to whatever they deem relevant. Anything less than what they feel is 100% cooperation in their own minds should be dealt with strongly.

Plus there are some owners that will take any opportunity to beat the union.

I don't see Goodell eliminating the suspension and I think Brady fights any suspension at all even if it is an uphill battle.
 

Padaiyappa

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kartvelo said:
yeah, it reads to me like he saw his buddy on TV (camera was on Revis, but hey! there's DoritoDink!) and sent him a chop busting text. Very quickly, as he was commenting in real time, hence the abbreviated and "cryptic" nature of the text.
"Dude, I can see you, you're on camera... holy crap, you look like you need to lose 30 pounds. And what are you doing with that coat?"
I wonder if anyone has started to go through the Green Bay footage to see if they can identify JJ and if this text made sense.....
 

DJnVa

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Padaiyappa said:
I wonder if anyone has started to go through the Green Bay footage to see if they can identify JJ and if this text made sense.....
 
Not sure, if you're being sarcastic here, but that's what everyone is referring to--that someone went through the tape and synced it up. There's a picture upthread.
 
 

yazamataz

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May 14, 2015
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I think this is absolutely correct. The rebuttal has nothing to do whatsoever with the legal case to be built by Kessler. Kessler is known for his ability to put together innovative and successful strategies for his clients. Comments from experts in sports law point out that this case is not that difficult compared to others that he has argued.
 
As well, despite the whole "deflator" angle, the rebuttal focuses on key issues that will eventually be crucial for PR reasons and other reasons:
 
- there is no evidence that the psi data of the footballs in question can't be explained by physical law  (MacKinnon's scientific conclusion)
- there is no evidence of Brady's complicity in anything resembling illegal tampering with the balls
- evidence of bias - that the NFL had reached conclusions about the alleged illegal tampering with footballs early on (the senior VP's letter and media leaks)
- confirmation bias in Well's report - based on prior conclusions, Wells interpreted the evidence consistently to fit those conclusions
 
 
crystalline said:
You might disagree with their PR strategy, but attacking the rebuttal for legal reasons misses the main point. The rebuttal was published for PR reasons.

Also, the short term focus is on the deflator excuse. The long term history of this event is yet to be written, and this rebuttal will affect that writing. Hopefully a few years from now the dominant story will a ham handed framing of Brady and the Pats, and the ESPN attacks on the deflator name will be a faded memory.
 

PhilPlantier

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MarcSullivaFan said:
I'm taking into account the likelihood that Brady will challenge Goodell's decision in federal court. When and if that occurs, the odds are in the league's favor (I've explained this in more detail in several places in this thread).

I'm not interested in betting on something I don't want to happen. And I'm not claiming that Brady would not have any chance of success--it's just not the most likely outcome.
If Brady challenges Goodell's decision in court based on partiality, what are the chances he's allowed limited discovery to flesh out that theory?  I'm happily trying to imagine a scenario where NFL execs are required to turn over their phones and e-mails, so give me good news.
 

Leather

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Ferm Sheller said:
Brady would file in Federal Court in Massachusetts, right?  Justice Lawyer Milloy or Ty Law presiding.
 
Joke aside, I wonder if the CBA governs venue.
 

DJnVa

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PLOT TWIST: McNally and Jastremski lurk/post here. We're efforting to get a Q&A.
 

Leather

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DrewDawg said:
PLOT TWIST: McNally and Jastremski lurk/post here. We're efforting to get a Q&A.
 
Oh fuck off.
 
If there was ever a chance for ItP to get national attention, this is it.
 

Ferm Sheller

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drleather2001 said:
 
Joke aside, I wonder if the CBA governs venue.
 
 
Yes, that was my question: can he and is that the best choice if he can.  I was just making a forum shopping joke, but home forum isn't always the best choice.
 

ivanvamp

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I don't understand at all how, if this goes to court, that a truly independent judge wouldn't look at the Wells report and conclude that it is a steaming pile of dog crap and that, even if it was not, that Brady deserved a four game suspension.
 

j44thor

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So if McNally has been the "Deflator" since at least May of 2014 what happened during the Jets game this past season where some of the balls were 16.  Was he only the Deflator when he felt like it?  
 
This is one part I really don't get.  If you are going to assume he deflated balls based on his nickname yet he clearly didn't deflate the balls in the NYJ game and had no idea they were over-inflated then what happened that game?
 

BroodsSexton

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So if you're Kessler, do you focus your appeal presentation on the harm to the league that will come from a lawsuit and pursuing all these issues publicly?
 

Padaiyappa

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Dec 3, 2007
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I get the feeling that JJ and JM in these texts are treating Brady and the Patriots organization like the rich uncle that the family members mooch off of.. They see the cool jacket in the proshop that costs $200 bucks hoping that the Patriots player can just hand it over to them. JM comes off to me as a mooch rather than someone who is trying to break the rules. I could be wrong ...
 

Erik Hanson's Hook

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I couldn't give two shits about any of this. We still won the Super Bowl. And we're still the best organization in the league.
 
Fuck 'em. This is all a bunch of whinny baby bullshit.
 

Average Reds

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dcmissle said:
Jerry Jones weighed in; now Arthur Blank. Message -- we like you Bawb, but it's time to move on:

"I think the process that (the NFL) went through was very thoughtful", Blank said. "Mr. (Ted) Wells is a highly regarded independent investigator. I read the report . . . I read the appendix. I read the independent reports done by the experts, if you will."

Blank was quick to compliment Kraft though, so as not to alienate the Pats owner.

"What he's going through has nothing to do with my respect for (Kraft), Blank said. My respect for him is well earned over my 14 years of working with him as an owner. Hes one of the owners that when he stands up and talks in the room, everybody listens, and the reason is Robert has earned the reputation of thinking about the league first; not about my club first. He takes care of his club as well, but the league first."
 
The owners are closing ranks and telling Kraft not to go full Al Davis.  Whether that means "Don't air dirty laundry in public, we'll deal with it in house" or "No soup for you, Bob" is an open question.  Of course, its worth remembering that Jerry Jones is the man who killed NFL Properties by filing a $750 million antitrust suit against the league.
 
Kraft needs to follow the example of Jerry Jones and protect his interests regardless of what other owners think.  If Jones didn't get tossed from the club for his legal recklessness, Kraft won't either.
 

Average Reds

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Erik Hanson's Hook said:
I couldn't give two shits about any of this. We still won the Super Bowl. And we're still the best organization in the league.
 
Fuck 'em. This is all a bunch of whinny baby bullshit.
 
Are you McNally or Jastremski?
 

j44thor

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GregHarris said:
Wasn't the NYJ game a road game?
 
No, Thursday night game was in NE.  Pats blocked the last second FG to win the game.
Brady went 20-37 for 267 and 3 TDs against a terrible NYJ secondary.
 

ivanvamp

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j44thor said:
So if McNally has been the "Deflator" since at least May of 2014 what happened during the Jets game this past season where some of the balls were 16.  Was he only the Deflator when he felt like it?  
 
This is one part I really don't get.  If you are going to assume he deflated balls based on his nickname yet he clearly didn't deflate the balls in the NYJ game and had no idea they were over-inflated then what happened that game?
 
Shhhhhhh…that's not convenient.
 
In other words, when he calls himself the deflator, we are to take that as a literal confession that not only did he deflate footballs, he did it illegally AND on the orders of Brady.
 
But when he says the refs gave them footballs at 16psi, he's just joking.
 

soxfanSJCA

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I keep visualizing Peyton Manning sitting in front of his 7 foot wide screen tv blaring ESPN or NFLN whilst he draws a humongous hit from his skull bong.
Maybe he even looks over at his footballs, which may or may not have been at regulation pressures, an he just smiles knowingly...
 

Ed Hillel

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MarcSullivaFan said:
Members only area?
Assuming this is true, the only way anyone would know is if they reached out. For those wondering why the timing of them getting canned yesterday, it makes sense so as to go on the offensive in full force. They are free of obligations and could have potential bias either way now, so they'd have more credibility.

And if DD is not joking and this is true, you can substitute "McNally and JJ" for "the Patriots."

"What's P+G?"
 

Bongorific

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Hoya81 said:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/14/wells-contradicts-his-own-report-regarding-mcnally-texts/

"Via Bart Hubbuch of the New York Post, Wells addressed the contention from the teams WellsReportContext.com website that Wells had in his possession all relevant text messages before Wells questioned McNally the first time. Which means that a follow-up interview wasnt necessary, because it wasnt based on any new evidence or developments.

Wells explained to Hubbuch that, because the message in which Wells calls himself the Deflator was sent in May 2014, Wells hadnt noticed it before questioning McNally the first time, since Wells had gone through only the text messages from the 2014 football season at that point.

Apart from the question of whether Wells or someone from his team should have churned the billable hours to review all text messages before interviewing McNally (and they should have), Wells explanation contradicts his own report.

At page 87, Wells quotes a text message from November 2014 in which McNally said, Deflate and give somebody that [jacket]. Wells then explains in the report, We planned to discuss this message with McNally during our requested follow-up interview. As noted above, we were unable to do so because counsel for the Patriots refused to make McNally available.

In other words, Wells explanation is not accurate. Wells now says didnt notice the May 2014 Deflator text message because he had reviewed only the text messages sent during the 2014 football season, and yet the Wells report expressly states that he wanted to question McNally a second time about one of the text messages sent during the 2014 football season.

And so, basically, pretty much everyone connected to this case now has significant credibility problems. Which means that the best outcome may have been (and may still be) for the league to admit that it created this mess by having inadequate football inflation and security procedures, by possessing inferior knowledge of the science of football deflation, and by paying insufficient attention to the reality that, in cold weather games footballs routinely are below 12.5 PSI. The league should simply have changed the procedures, warned all teams that any efforts to circumvent those procedures in the future would be met with harsh punishment, and not attempted to punish any of the many teams that may have taken advantage of what ultimately were proven to be incomplete and borderline inept enforcement of Rule 2, which seemingly requires the football at all times to be between 12.5 and 13.5 PSI, regardless of the weather conditions."
This is pretty bad for the NFL's argument of non-cooperation. If Wells's team already had the text messages before the first interview, there is no way he should get a second interview. The only point of the second would be to catch McNally in an inconsistent statement which is why the laws rarely allow a second crack at a witness absent evidence that couldn't have been discovered earlier.
 

Valek123

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DrewDawg said:
PLOT TWIST: McNally and Jastremski lurk/post here. We're efforting to get a Q&A.
 
No, how long do you think it will take any post no matter how harmless to be on ESPN and make SOSH part of this nightmare.  Like hell no, worst idea in the history of this site and that's truly saying something.
 

dcmissle

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soxfanSJCA said:
I keep visualizing Peyton Manning sitting in front of his 7 foot wide screen tv blaring ESPN or NFLN whilst he draws a humongous hit from his skull bong.
Maybe he even looks over at his footballs, which may or may not have been at regulation pressures, an he just smiles knowingly...
I keep visualizing BB not having to spend a nanosecond thinking about this nonsense other than contingency planning.
 

BlackJack

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Ed Hillel said:
Assuming this is true, the only way anyone would know is if they reached out. For those wondering why the timing of them getting canned yesterday, it makes sense so as to go on the offensive in full force. They are free of obligations and could have potential bias either way now, so they'd have more credibility.

And if DD is not joking and this is true, you can substitute "McNally and JJ" for "the Patriots."

"What's P+G?"
 
They're probably hanging out in this thread:  http://sonsofsamhorn.net/topic/43565-sosh-job-networking-extravaganza/
 

glennhoffmania

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Stitch01 said:
Well, its a combination of Goodell being a button mashing idiot and a contingent of the NFL office that was out to get the Pats.  This wouldn't have played out this way with a different team because the NFL office idiots wouldn't have started the media circus rolling.  Certainly not ROG's first dumb penalty though.
 
I don't know a football fan of any team who doesn't think that Goodell is a moron, so we're all in agreement there.  How he still has that job is a fucking mystery.
 
MuppetAsteriskTalk said:
 
Really?
 
If I called you an ass hat, please have faith that I don't think you literally have a hat for an ass.
 
Don't worry, I really don't give a shit what you think.
 

doc

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From Urban Dictionary


2
deflating
when you smoke so much pot all you want to do is fall asleep.
guy 1: god dammit, we shouldn't have smoked those seven bowls, i'm deflating.

guy 2: i'm gonna go home and go to sleep.
by tricks355 July 19, 2010
5 6
 

jimbobim

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this all really comes down to RG being unwilling to admit that the ball procedures are; porous , a general joke and probably intentionally so. Peyton Manning was the clear target of the Pats leaked needle thing. Anyone who thinks robot Manning doesn't have a pampered football is delusional. 
 
Edit 
 

bernardsamuel

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Theo, as regards the potential "distraction impact" on Tom, I'll  take a crack at it.  If he actually did something wrong (whether it was wrongly disavowing "general awareness" or actually having detailed awareness - neither of which I think is the case, let me add quickly, and verily there is likely nothing to be generally aware of, in any event), this will be a significant distraction.  If he did nothing wrong in this matter but his phone material is like all of ours,  containing inside jokes and other remarks easily misunderstood by people without a clue as to the context of the jokes, there will inevitably be some distraction as he takes time to explain comments and contexts.  If he did nothing wrong and there is nothing that looks too strange, then he'll tell Kessler "do your job," and Brady will make it an act of will not to be distracted.  Where I think there will be an element of distraction is in the Colts game, as there will be pressure upon him not merely to win but to "demolish." 
 
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glennhoffmania said:
 
Like I said, I'd be furious.  That's a far cry from claiming that there's a Patriot-specific rule book.  Lots of players and teams have been on the receiving end of unjust penalties.  This is hardly limited to New England.
 
I don't think the poster meant literally a different rulebook, but it's also disingenuous I believe to not at least acknowledge - whether it be BB's arrogance or Spygate or what have you...that if this exact same scenario played out say with Andy Dalton in a Bengals first round loss to Baltimore in the playoffs that it would have played out as it did.  Immediately we had....."the league is distraught over this",  leaks designed to inflame that were clearly coming from someone in the NFL office, and then a 5MM investigation.
 

Harry Hooper

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j44thor said:
So if McNally has been the "Deflator" since at least May of 2014 what happened during the Jets game this past season where some of the balls were 16.  Was he only the Deflator when he felt like it?  
 
This is one part I really don't get.  If you are going to assume he deflated balls based on his nickname yet he clearly didn't deflate the balls in the NYJ game and had no idea they were over-inflated then what happened that game?
 
 
The best part is not only does Vincent assert that there's evidence of tampering in earlier games, but he also steps right over the evidence to the contrary.
 

Myt1

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MarcSullivaFan said:
Now you're getting me hot.
Nice.

So, in a vacuum, I obviously agree with you that the decisions of labor arbitrators are notoriously difficult to overcome in federal court. But, given the facts of this case and the admittedly collectively-bargained-for exchange of having Goodell as the "arbitrator," we're not exactly in labor law Kansas, anymore, are we, Toto? Does that shade your handicapping at all?
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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Plot Twist: I am Jim McNally, you Dorito Dinks! It just sucks I decided to take a piss at the worst moment possible. Looks like I'm useless now, which takes the air right out of my balls  sails. 
 

GameEight

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Oct 23, 2013
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Bob420 said:
The idea that JJ was referring to someone else and not Brady and possibly something else besides doing something to the footballs seems a little far fetched as well.

Mcnally: "Tom sucks..I'm going to make the next ball a freakin balloon"

Less than two minutes later:

JJ: "Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done"

That doesn't mean they were doing anything illegal but seems like a real stretch there.
I agree that's a stretch. Wouldn't the better excuse be that JJ was simply bullshitting McNally? As in, Brady really didn't know who McNally was, and JJ was just trying to make McNally feel important?