#DFG: Canceling the Noise

Is there any level of suspension that you would advise Tom to accept?


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Harry Hooper

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NavaHo said:
The "league sources" are getting their ducks in a row and spreading the message that the Kraft PC has nothing to do with Brady treatment. Goodell will be even more the hero when he does reduce the suspension later.
 
You don't get Roger. As long as he looks tough, it doesn't really matter how may times he loses in court.
 

MillarTime

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Fuck. This just keeps getting worse and worse.

The only recourse the Pats (and their fans) have at this point is on the field. I want complete and total annihilation, with extreme prejudice towards Jets, Colts, Ravens, and.......you know what, everybody. Fuck them all.
 

riboflav

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He sounded like and looked like a defeated man today. I felt sorry for him, a billionaire. Never thought that would happen. I think his heart has been in the right place and this was the last thing he wanted to do. I wish he didn't do it. Sort of just left the door open on all options while TB goes to court. But, if TB wins in court and Goodell is belittled by the judge in the decision, there will be vindication for the Pats (among some) and more so than if Kraft held his ground but went down in defeat.
 

uncannymanny

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Dirty Sanchez Forever said:
Crazy is watching a rigged league any more.
You'll be missed I'm sure.

riboflav said:
He sounded like and looked like a defeated man today. I felt sorry for him, a billionaire. Never thought that would happen. I think his heart has been in the right place and this was the last thing he wanted to do. I wish he didn't do it. Sort of just left the door open on all options while TB goes to court. But, if TB wins in court and Goodell is belittled by the judge in the decision, there will be vindication for the Pats (among some) and more so than if Kraft held his ground but went down in defeat.
Sure seemed like a begrudging concession.
 

E5 Yaz

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Seels said:
I swear if Brady misses a single game, Superbowl 49 will be the absolute last time I ever watch football.
 
 
Papelbon's Poutine said:
Nobody cares.
 
Oh c'mon, challenge him to a bet. That was so much fun earlier today.
 

DJnVa

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Seels said:
I swear if Brady misses a single game, Superbowl 49 will be the absolute last time I ever watch football.
 
No one believes you.
 
So, to everyone saying things like this, in order to really drive it home, you should refrain from posting in this thread anymore.
 

Mystic Merlin

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Wildly disproportionate, punitive penalties based on specious evidence as deterrence!  Rest assured, this penalty will deter other NFL franchises from breaking rules and/or 'threatening the integrity of the game' ever again.  We've shown everyone what will happen if you fail to fully cooperate with us.
 
The league has no idea how to manage PR or administer an oversight and disciplinary apparatus.
 

riboflav

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I will add that my greatest concern today was his statement regarding how much respect he has for Goodell and the power of the commissioner's office. This is the kind of thing that rankles me as a Pats' fan both because it is viscerally uncomfortable to hear and because the Patriots are clearly targets of the rest of the league. It should also scare all NFL coaches, players, and fans about the long-term viability of the NFL.
 

wiffleballhero

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In the simulacrum
Maybe they cheated, but really, until the end of time, so what?
 
This is of even less importance than a spitball and it turned into the moral equivalent of Arnold Rothstein calling in the Colts' plays.
 

DegenerateSoxFan

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Harry Hooper said:
 
You don't get Roger. As long as he looks tough, it doesn't really matter how may times he loses in court.
That, and for $44 mil year, he probably gives zero fucks about getting spanked by a federal judge - he has no skin in that game.
 

DJnVa

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Reggie's Racquet said:
Point of information...if Brady is suspended can he still be on the sideline during the games?
 
No, he can't be in the building.
 

Slow Rheal

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Not upset, but disappointed that there wasn't another form of recourse for the team-levied sanctions. We're not privy to everything that's happened and I'm confident that Kraft is making the best decision for the Patriots organization. Hoping to hang number 5 next year as the ultimate fuck you to the league office though.
 

danlmac

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I have a bad feeling that Brady will serve the four game suspension. Throughout this whole ridiculous saga, every time that I've expected a just outcome, I've been wrong.
The deck appears to be stacked against us.
I don't think there's a deal between Kraft and Goodell regarding Brady.
I predict Goodell will be the arbiter, and he'll uphold the full suspension. To do otherwise would make the league look bad.
He won't allow that.
 
I hope I'm wrong again. I hope Brady brings this to court.
 

joe dokes

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NatetheGreat said:
Question: if this does go to court (presumably after the appeals process plays out), how long would that take to resolve itself, assuming both sides put up a real fight? Like, what are the odds its still underway when the season picks up, and how would that even be handled--especially if, say, the court rules in Brady's favor, but after he's already missed games?
 
I would think that Brady (his side) would first try to get a temporary injunction to prevent the suspension from going into effect while the lawsuit is under consideration. That would be one way to account for the time crunch. I suspect the complaint is already prepared, and will be filed before the ink dries on Goodell's next ruling.
 

One Red Seat

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riboflav said:
I will add that my greatest concern today was his statement regarding how much respect he has for Goodell and the power of the commissioner's office. This is the kind of thing that rankles me as a Pats' fan both because it is viscerally uncomfortable to hear and because the Patriots are clearly targets of the rest of the league. It should also scare all NFL coaches, players, and fans about the long-term viability of the NFL.
Agree with this. I kind of get that he probably had no other realistic or likely winnable options but I sure do wish his statement was stronger....

I want to stress we are still innocent
I believe in TB
The process was beyond disappointing with the leaks
Etc Etc

The fellating of Goodell makes me nauseous. I get that Kraft had to put down his weapons & make some peace but RG has seemingly fucked him over pretty good so I just can't comprehend the over the top praise for him.

I hate what Kraft did today but one day or event in his tenure will not change my overall respect and appreciation for him and the organization since he has taken over. Still proud to be a fan of the Patriots.
 

garzooma

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When Irsay threw a tantrum and damaged the NFL by blabbing to a reporter, he got what he wanted.
When NFL personnel lied to reporters and damaged the NFL with the leaks, they got what they wanted.
Kraft's years of loyalty gained him extra punishment from the NFL, to show they weren't favoring him.
And looking at all of this, Kraft decides he needs to show more loyalty?
 
Can you say codependency?
 

joe dokes

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MillarTime said:
Fuck. This just keeps getting worse and worse.

The only recourse the Pats (and their fans) have at this point is on the field. I want complete and total annihilation, with extreme prejudice towards Jets, Colts, Ravens, and.......you know what, everybody. Fuck them all.
 
For the fans, it's football that you watch on TV while getting drunk and scratching your balls; what other "recourse" did fans *ever* have?  As for the team, it's *always* been about what's on the field. That's one of BB's (many) strengths.
 

SemperFidelisSox

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Mike Kensil and the other co-conspirators within the league office who have been doing the bidding of their previous employers are not going to stop at Deflategate. Kraft is naive if he thinks this can't/won't happen again.

The focus of the teams PR campaign should have shifted away from the sanctions and more towards the lack of accountability within the league offices over leaks, personal vendettas, etc.
 

joe dokes

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To answer the thread title, fans can feel however they want.  Its like telling them how to feel after a gut punch Super Bowl loss.  I'm not upset at the organization. "Go down fighting" and the other similar platitudes are meaningless TOUGH GUY hottakes with no place in this situation. Kraft had no legitimate path to anything resembling success. I'm pissed at the remainder of the clowns in the car -- Goodell, Vincent, most media -- but not Kraft.
 
(It's ironic...one of the major criticisms of Goodell  -- rightly so -- is that he's simply a dick-swinger trying to look tough. And people are critical of Kraft for not whipping his out, too?)
 
 
 
Dirty Sanchez Forever said:
He's forsaking the legacy of the greatest coach/quarterback combo in league history, as well as his own for some abstract bargaining chip to use down the road?  That's unfathomable. He's going to get booed out his own stadium on opening night. 
 
I'm not sure there's any forsaking going on. The abstract bargaining chip is your own creation. He will get the loudest, longest standing ovation in the history of the team. And then it will become  second only to the one Brady gets whenever he takes the field for the first time.
 

KingPK

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It's open season now. Any minor perceived skirting of sacred NFL rules will be immediately brought to the league since everyone knows if they whine and leak to the right people they can whip the public into a fervor and say that once again the INTEGRITY OF THE LEAGUE is in danger!

And if Brady serves the four games, his relationship with Kraft has to be permanently damaged. He leaves money on the table to help the franchise and THIS is what he gets?
 

Jimbodandy

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A lot of folks wanted a blood feud, and I get that.  But a wise man doesn't walk around popping every guy in the mouth who has something derogatory to say to him.  Kraft has a right to be pissed off.  He also has a right to exercise his business acumen and walk away from a fight.  Sometimes you let the drunk guy yell insults at your back as you calmly walk back to your friends.  It doesn't make me think any less of him.  I am disappointed, but I trust him to continue to lead the franchise in a superb manner.
 

joe dokes

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RedOctober3829 said:
Curran confirms that no brady deal came with the concession from Kraft today.
 
I couldn't imagine it would.  But it clears the deck for the only "legal" battle that has any chance of success, and since "Brady" is a proxy for "Patriots" in the public mind, the team will benefit from any success he has.
 
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Jimbodandy said:
A lot of folks wanted a blood feud, and I get that.  But a wise man doesn't walk around popping every guy in the mouth who has something derogatory to say to him.  Kraft has a right to be pissed off.  He also has a right to exercise his business acumen and walk away from a fight.  Sometimes you let the drunk guy yell insults at your back as you calmly walk back to your friends.  It doesn't make me think any less of him.  I am disappointed, but I trust him to continue to lead the franchise in a superb manner.
 
Except Kraft now looks like a drunk guy who was yelling insults, and then sat down when his target stood up. And when the target got close he kissed him on the ass.
 

uncannymanny

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I love that we're quoting confirmations as if any of these reporters were a) correct about anything and b) on the need to know list if it was true.
 

joe dokes

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KingPK said:
It's open season now. Any minor perceived skirting of sacred NFL rules will be immediately brought to the league since everyone knows if they whine and leak to the right people they can whip the public into a fervor and say that once again the INTEGRITY OF THE LEAGUE is in danger!

And if Brady serves the four games, his relationship with Kraft has to be permanently damaged. He leaves money on the table to help the franchise and THIS is what he gets?
 
Its just like Tom Jackson said, "They hates their owner!"  No, he doesn't.
 

Jimbodandy

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MuppetAsteriskTalk said:
 
Except Kraft now looks like a drunk guy who was yelling insults, and then sat down when his target stood up. And when the target got close he kissed him on the ass.
 
No he doesn't.  He said that he was examining his options.  He examined them and chose the one that he thought best.  Sometimes you step up to the dickhead slurring his words in his beer-stained shirt, and your friend grabs your arm and says "dude, it's not worth it".  And you go do something else.  No shame in that, IMO.
 

nighthob

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garzooma said:
When Irsay threw a tantrum and damaged the NFL by blabbing to a reporter, he got what he wanted.
When NFL personnel lied to reporters and damaged the NFL with the leaks, they got what they wanted.
Kraft's years of loyalty gained him extra punishment from the NFL, to show they weren't favoring him.
And looking at all of this, Kraft decides he needs to show more loyalty?
 
Can you say codependency?
When Vegas posts the over/under on the number of owners that will vote to renew Goodell's contract, bet the under.
 

lexrageorge

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The reports of "no Brady deal" are believable.  As has been explained multiple times here, that is a player disciplinary issue, not a team one.  
 
The reports of "no reduction in Brady suspension" are BS.  Given that the appeal has just been filed, and there has yet to be a single hearing on the matter, there is no way Goodell could get away with making such a declaration without invoking a lawsuit filed by the NFLPA.  
 

joe dokes

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Mystic Merlin said:
I wonder how many flawed Simmons-esque analogies we can dream up?
 
"And then this guy Roger hits on 19 and gets a 7.  Meanwhile my buddy Pubes is next, sitting there with a 14 and gets a King instead of that 7.  That King woulda been mine to go with my 11, but no, I get the 5. Pubes and me go after this Roger guy, fists flying but some other guy, Bob, just leaves the table.  What a wuss."
 

joe dokes

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lexrageorge said:
The reports of "no Brady deal" are believable.  As has been explained multiple times here, that is a player disciplinary issue, not a team one.  
 
The reports of "no reduction in Brady suspension" are BS.  Given that the appeal has just been filed, and there has yet to be a single hearing on the matter, there is no way Goodell could get away with making such a declaration without invoking a lawsuit filed by the NFLPA.  
 
But that's not to say Kessler wont use the alleged leak in an amendment to his motion to recuse.
 

lexrageorge

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The answer is a resounding NO.  
 
Kraft had no legal options that were viable; again, that's not opinion.  
 
By releasing the Wells Report in Context, the Patriots at least told the world an alternative view of the events, one that at least got some of the more intelligent and thoughtful media members to actually at least provide him some support.  At the very worst, no harm was done at this point by releasing that report.
 
Is it OK to be disappointed in the outcome?  Sure.  Is it OK to feel that Kraft could have or should have handled things differently?  Yes, even if you think there's not much else he could have done.
 
But anyone that thinks this episode somehow cancels the accomplishments of Bob Kraft as owner of this team should be given a vacation from posting on this forum.  This team was headed to St. Louis before Kraft stepped in.  The team went from perennial laughing stock to perennial Super Bowl contender.  4 titles, 6 Super Bowl appearances, and one undefeated regular season in 14 seasons in the salary cap era.  If you refuse to give Kraft any credit for those, you really need to become a fan of the Jaguars. 
 

garzooma

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AB in DC said:
 
This competes with "OMG Brady and Jastremski talked three times after the investigation started, so they must be guilty!!" as the absolute dumbest thing associated with this mess.
 
I don't know if this has been talked about, but has it been established that McNally talked with anyone after the investigation started?  That would seem like a rather significant dog that didn't bark.  Can you imagine sneakily deflating the footballs, having NFL personnel specifically ask you about that, and not calling anyone?
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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It doesn't cancel his previous accomplishments, but Kraft's continuing cowering before Goodell plus his unwavering support for a man clearly hell bent on destroying the franchise from without are going a long way to killing off both the league and the Pats organization. Backing down today was an unconscionable decision.

Al Davis was a great owner/GM once too. There's no reason why the same couldn't happen to Kraft.

To answer the question, we have every right to be angry at Kraft today for his refusal to stand up to a raving madman of a commissioner. Kraft's constant backing of this fucking moron has damaged the game ina profound way.
 

Shelterdog

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Kraft's decision was a smart decision for Bob Kraft, rich guy, but it sure as shit doesn't help me as a Pats fan.  A destructive scorched earth campaign doesn't cost me a time but might (just might) actually get that first round pick back and if the cost is that Kraft doesn't have quite the say in the league's marketing strategy and doesn't get to be in the Rooney/Mara club, well who gives a fuck.
 

Jinhocho

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Agreed Shelter and Joe.  Worse yet, we all know that any little thing that comes up in the future - real or not - they will be coming back for the pats loaded for bear.
 

PBDWake

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The only thing I wonder about, and I seriously doubt this is the case, is if there is some kind of back room deal with Kraft and Goodell, where Kraft drops this now, and after the season Goodell says that when reviewing the season's halftime inflation data, the Patriots balls do not look out of place, and reinstates the first. That way, Goodell looks like he comes down hard on the Pats, but gives him a plausible out for a reduction in suspension, at a time when nobody really cares anymore and there's enough space and time to avoid Kraft's puppet rumors. But that would be far too subtle and intelligent a move for the Sheriff. Kraft likely just realized he wasn't going to win and cut his losses.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
It doesn't cancel his previous accomplishments, but Kraft's continuing cowering before Goodell plus his unwavering support for a man clearly hell bent on destroying the franchise from without are going a long way to killing off both the league and the Pats organization. Backing down today was an unconscionable decision.

Al Davis was a great owner/GM once too. There's no reason why the same couldn't happen to Kraft.

To answer the question, we have every right to be angry at Kraft today for his refusal to stand up to a raving madman of a commissioner. Kraft's constant backing of this fucking moron has damaged the game ina profound way.
Yes.  What I am angry about is his complete and total capitulation.  He didn't just agree to drop the matter for the good of the league... he embarassed himself and the organization for no obvious gain.  
 
We're left with 2 alternatives:
 
1. Goodell is so powerful that he can force Kraft out any time he wants to.  (Or, even worse, he has some way to blackmail Kraft).
2. Kraft is sucking up to this asshole for no good reason.
 
Someone should start a poll on when the next time Goodell will dock the Pats a first round pick and what supposed offense he will trump up in order to do it.  
 

ivanvamp

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PBDWake said:
The only thing I wonder about, and I seriously doubt this is the case, is if there is some kind of back room deal with Kraft and Goodell, where Kraft drops this now, and after the season Goodell says that when reviewing the season's halftime inflation data, the Patriots balls do not look out of place, and reinstates the first. That way, Goodell looks like he comes down hard on the Pats, but gives him a plausible out for a reduction in suspension, at a time when nobody really cares anymore and there's enough space and time to avoid Kraft's puppet rumors. But that would be far too subtle and intelligent a move for the Sheriff. Kraft likely just realized he wasn't going to win and cut his losses.
Yeah not gonna happen. The NFL successfully railroaded the Patriots. Over something they never even remotely demonstrated actually happened. And through it all, never were their lies and leaks and absurd, comical processes ever held up for scrutiny or critical analysis except here.

It's unfathomable but, well, there it is.

Only a dominating court victory by Brady - and not on a technicality like, oh Vincent wasn't supposed to issue the penalty so we have to drop it - where the league is given a gigantic kick in the groin over everything from the process to the leaks to the lies to the science, can the Patriots gain a measure of respect back.
 

Bone Chips

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Warning - none of this will sound rational, so if you are looking for that please move on to the next post...
 
Yeah, upset is probably an understatement.  Better words would be outraged, demoralized, betrayed...  It's the same feeling I had in the late 90's when Kraft backed out of the deal with Hartford, my hometown.  I thought the guy was a fake and a coward back then, but now I am convinced of it.  I had a feeling in my gut leading up to the Owners Meeting that he would once again take the practical, safer road for his wallet.  And that's exactly what he did.
 
What Kraft did today signifies to me that the Pats are either cheaters or cowards.  And those are two qualities I can't support in a sports team.  Call me naive but I really did think the Pats were innocent of tampering with the balls after inspection.  I spent countless hours reading reports and defending the team on football forums, only to be left out to dry by an owner who is more concerned about playing nice in his corrupt billionaire's sandbox.  If Kraft had his own house in order he should have gotten to the bottom of this mess far earlier and not even fought it like he did.  It's one thing for a dopey fan like me to naively believe in the team, but not the owner of the team.  And when is it the right time to start talking about the FACT now that his team has just received the two hardest punishments in the history of the League.  Two time cheaters in a 7 year period.  That is now undeniable and part of the public record, a permanent stain on not only the Patriots but also the NFL.  After Spygate this Organization should have been squeaky clean, from top to bottom.  No excuses - that's on Kraft.  I'm starting to think that he really is the buffoon he looks to be and just got lucky by landing Belichik and Brady.
 
This whole ordeal has completely soured me to the team and the NFL.  I've been a Pats fan for over 40 years but after today I am done.  My interest in the League had already been waining since Goodell took over, but now it's complete.  Just moved into a new house in the country and looking forward to spending a lot of time outdoors this fall on Sundays.  Maybe this is a good thing after all.
 

SoxinSeattle

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Any chance RG comes out and commends Kraft for his press conference and for falling in line he lessens the team penalty? Could that have been the hand shake deal?