#DFG: Canceling the Noise

[garzooma]

Indeed.  Would the lawyers here care to weigh in?  If innocent, what sort of legal recourse do these two have?

I'd like to hear about this, too.  A while back I asked about defamation, and now McNally has been defamed (in the plain meaning of the word) over Boston airways as a "shady, shady character".  At the time of my original question, I was asked about what false statement this would be based on.  I would say "there was an impartial investigation that found it more probable than not that McNally and Jastremski are sneaks, cheats and liars" -- which is what the Wells Report boils down to.
 
There's also the wrongful termination angle.  I've heard it say that this won't work because they're "at will".  I'd like to think that there's some legal protection even in these cases.

 

[Gambler7]

It's dissapointing that for 4 months Kraft has been revving and riling up his soldiers (fans and players) preparing for battle and after 4 months of being on the front lines defending the castle, unknown to anyone, he is negotiating with the enemy across the way. Along the way pulling the rug out from the fans, and leaving the fans out on an island to slaughter with no cavalry on the way as expected. That's what it feels like. Hard to swallow. Going from demanding an apology to groveling at the NFL'S feet. If you know you can't do anything to fight then don't ever start punching.

 

[tims4wins]

Any chance RG comes out and commends Kraft for his press conference and for falling in line he lessens the team penalty? Could that have been the hand shake deal?

Doubtful as the masses would just frame it as another example of Goodell favoring his buddy Kraft, and Goodell clearly wants to shed that image.

 

[dcmissle]

If we are brutally honest, we pretty much have to admit that some poetic just has been meted out in this -- not to Patriots players, coaches and fans, certainly, but to Bob Kraft. Kraft has abided and at least once aided and abetted Goodell's reign of terror.

Where was Kraft when JJ and Snyder treated what was supposed to be an uncapped year as an uncapped year? Look at those cap penalties again. They hurt Dallas and Washihgton pretty badly. Not as cynical and unjust as inventing fraudulent charges if that's what happened here. But certainly cynical and unjust. Kraft is supposed to be a leader and styles himself as the guy who does the right thing.

Same damn thing with Adrian Peterson, who like it or not was punished retroactively largely for PR reasons. Where is the conscience of the League; not even a word in private?

And of course Ray Rice. Supporting Goodell publicly when the guy imposed inadequate discipline in the first instance and then punished twice in the second instance, against all standards of fairness.

If you support lawless behavior, tacitly or actively, it's eventually likely to be aimed at you.

 

[wibi]

Yes.  What I am angry about is his complete and total capitulation.  He didn't just agree to drop the matter for the good of the league... he embarassed himself and the organization for no obvious gain.  
 
We're left with 2 alternatives:
 
1. Goodell is so powerful that he can force Kraft out any time he wants to.  (Or, even worse, he has some way to blackmail Kraft).
2. Kraft is sucking up to this asshole for no good reason.
 
Someone should start a poll on when the next time Goodell will dock the Pats a first round pick and what supposed offense he will trump up in order to do it.  

 
There's a third option but I'll get shouted down if I suggest it

 

[PseuFighter]

What's going to suck is if they did "cheat" (however it should be defined), I don't think we'll ever definitively know.
 
So I'll just live my life thinking they didn't, as will probably most of us.

 

[wutang112878]

Doubtful as the masses would just frame it as another example of Goodell favoring his buddy Kraft, and Goodell clearly wants to shed that image.

 
And I'd say a huge part of the motivation to turn this molehill into a mountain was for Goodell to show that he is boss, not just to Kraft specifically but to the league and to the public.  He needed something to hit so he could show off his big bat.  Its the same reason he suspended Greg Hardy for another however many games when he already dished out suspension for that once before.  Any talk about Goodell going too hard on someone and being a tyrant means people arent talking about him being incompetent and lying to the public (I didnt know there were tapes, doh).  The later couple of issues can get you fired really fast, the first couple make people think you are an a-hole.

 

[lexrageorge]

If we are brutally honest, we pretty much have to admit that some poetic just has been meted out in this -- not to Patriots players, coaches and fans, certainly, but to Bob Kraft. Kraft has abided and at least once aided and abetted Goodell's reign of terror.

Where was Kraft when JJ and Snyder treated what was supposed to be an uncapped year as an uncapped year? Look at those cap penalties again. They hurt Dallas and Washihgton pretty badly. Not as cynical and unjust as inventing fraudulent charges if that's what happened here. But certainly cynical and unjust. Kraft is supposed to be a leader and styles himself as the guy who does the right thing.

Same damn thing with Adrian Peterson, who like it or not was punished retroactively largely for PR reasons. Where is the conscience of the League; not even a word in private?

And of course Ray Rice. Supporting Goodell publicly when the guy imposed inadequate discipline in the first instance and then punished twice in the second instance, against all standards of fairness.

If you support lawless behavior, tacitly or actively, it's eventually likely to be aimed at you.

You could add Bountygate.  It's perfectly fair criticism of Kraft that he was silent (or worse) during those other episodes.  Then again, so were the other owners.  

 

[njnesportsfan]

I think 20 years from now, people will remember this is the day when the Patriots dynasty ends. Brady won't play forever, BB won't coach forever. As a Patriots fan since 1996 (I came to this country in 1994), I consider myself incredibly lucky. Frankly, lots of things in life, good or bad, are due to luck. What if Brady were drafted in the 198th pick? What if Leon Hess didn't pass away in 1999? We probably give too much credit to Kraft on how savvy he was in buying the team, building the stadium, hiring BB, etc. We always give too much credit to success and winners. And today, he and the Patriots end up as the biggest losers. Time will cure many wounds but will change few minds. People may hate Patriots less 20 years from now, but not because they change their mind on the "cheating", rather it will be because Patriots will no longer be winners. By admitting defeat, both the battle and war are lost. If Brady plays another 2 years, the loss of draft picks will hurt the most just when the team needs them the most. Although we know it's a losing battle with a 99.9999% chance of defeat, by refusing to fight, the team has lost its soul. What do the players think now? Deep down, will they continue to give 120% in the Patriots way? Now the owner publicly surrenders, why should the players feel any different on the battle field? Where is the rallying cry before each and every game? "It's about honor" will ring hollow. Where is the honor? 

 

[EvilEmpire]

If we are brutally honest, we pretty much have to admit that some poetic just has been meted out in this -- not to Patriots players, coaches and fans, certainly, but to Bob Kraft. Kraft has abided and at least once aided and abetted Goodell's reign of terror.

Kraft as Robespierre. I like it.

 

[troparra]

Is Exponent going to be their scientific witness in the coming CTE litigation?

The question is whether scientific analysis done for legal purposes is typically this bogus, and is that why owners (who you would think were intelligent) actually believe such garbage?

 

[Quiddity]

It's a shame that Kraft was okay with disrespecting the fanbase and the franchise with his actions today. The fandom is outraged over this matter and for him to just roll over and take it like he has is unacceptable. Especially after his previous comments and actions where he was fighting against it. The amount of criticism that Kraft gets from the media in this town I've always found absurd, especially since he's the man who saved football in New England. But if there is one thing that Kraft deserves to get criticized big time for is that he doesn't stand up and defend his team or those working below them like he should. Despite what the media elite like Felger proclaim, just sitting there and taking it doesn't do any good. It just makes it worse because people think you are guilty if you do so. What good did sitting there and taking it do with respect to Spygate? All they did was film from the wrong location. They got declared cheaters, had numerous lies out there about them on what Spygate truly was and on past events that had no truth behind them. And they just sat there and took it. And now its going to happen again? Are you kidding me? What happens next year when the Steelers complain about the lights not working in the visiting locker room and Goodell launches another $5 million investigation, fines the Pats $5 million and takes away 3 more first round draft picks? Kraft is just inviting these types of actions with his behavior after Spygate and this.
 
Kraft deserves to get booed opening night. The fanbase should send him a sign that this is unacceptable.

 

[soxhop411]

I think 20 years from now, people will remember this is the day when the Patriots dynasty ends. Brady won't play forever, BB won't coach forever. As a Patriots fan since 1996 (I came to this country in 1994), I consider myself incredibly lucky. Frankly, lots of things in life, good or bad, are due to luck. What if Brady were drafted in the 198th pick? What if Leon Hess didn't pass away in 1999? We probably give too much credit to Kraft on how savvy he was in buying the team, building the stadium, hiring BB, etc. We always give too much credit to success and winners. And today, he and the Patriots end up as the biggest losers. Time will cure many wounds but will change few minds. People may hate Patriots less 20 years from now, but not because they change their mind on the "cheating", rather it will be because Patriots will no longer be winners. By admitting defeat, both the battle and war are lost. If Brady plays another 2 years, the loss of draft picks will hurt the most just when the team needs them the most. Although we know it's a losing battle with a 99.9999% chance of defeat, by refusing to fight, the team has lost its soul. What do the players think now? Deep down, will they continue to give 120% in the Patriots way? Now the owner publicly surrenders, why should the players feel any different on the battle field? Where is the rallying cry before each and every game? "It's about honor" will ring hollow. Where is the honor? 

Wut

 

[soxhop411]

Yes.  What I am angry about is his complete and total capitulation.  He didn't just agree to drop the matter for the good of the league... he embarassed himself and the organization for no obvious gain.  
 
We're left with 2 alternatives:
 
1. Goodell is so powerful that he can force Kraft out any time he wants to.  (Or, even worse, he has some way to blackmail Kraft).
2. Kraft is sucking up to this asshole for no good reason.
 
Someone should start a poll on when the next time Goodell will dock the Pats a first round pick and what supposed offense he will trump up in order to do it.  

Or the other owners said cut the shit or we will make your life hell?

 

[PayrodsFirstClutchHit]

First they came for the Cowboys and Redskins and I did not speak up because I was not fan of those teams.
 
Then they came for the Saints and I did not speak up because I was not a fan of the Saints.
 
Then they came for my team and not even the owner would speak for me. 

 

[natpastime162]

Doubtful as the masses would just frame it as another example of Goodell favoring his buddy Kraft, and Goodell clearly wants to shed that image.

 
Which is ridiculous because the masses believe the penalty was light and Goodell was going easy on his buddy owner.  The masses have absolutely no concept of NFL organizational discipline, be it light or extreme.  NCAA style removal of championships and banning the team from league play for multiple years are actual suggestions.
 
It's air in a damn football.  I refuse to answer the "Do you think Brady knew?" and "Did they do it?" questions.  It grants credibility to an issue that deserves none.  Forgot Pats fans sour grapes, Jim Irsay and the Colts, Kensil, or whoever did it should have been ruthlessly mocked and verbally abused for floating this story 30 minutes after a 40 point drubbing.

 

[Eddie Jurak]

Or the other owners said cut the shit or we will make your life hell?

Doesn't explain the sucking up.

 

[Devizier]

 
 
And of course Ray Rice. Supporting Goodell publicly when the guy imposed inadequate discipline in the first instance and then punished twice in the second instance, against all standards of fairness.

 
This is the kicker. I'm not with the consensus around here about the general goodness of the owners and players affiliated with my hometown team. Nothing against Brady or Kraft, but I'm not going to vouch for them as people. I don't know them, save for how they've carried themselves in public.
 
Standing up for Goodell is something Kraft has done repeatedly. In the context of the Ray Rice situation, it certainly wasn't very endearing. 

 

[Devizier]

The only recourse the Pats (and their fans) have at this point is on the field.

 
That was always the only "recourse" and frankly should be the only thing that matters, as far as professional sports in concerned. The rest of this stuff? Theater.

 

[dabombdig]

The biggest pro sports scandal of the last decade should have been the NBA ref gambling scandal. David Stern had you forgetting about that 15 mins later. Goodell can't even put the air back in a few footballs without telling the world how Goddam important he is.

 

[tims4wins]

The biggest pro sports scandal of the last decade should have been the NBA ref gambling scandal. David Stern had you forgetting about that 15 mins later. Goodell can't even put the air back in a few footballs without telling the world how Goddam important he is.

Exactly. What does it say that we may have more questions regarding the integrity of the game for the NFL than the NBA? It is really a black mark on Goodell.

 

[RG33]

I swear if Brady misses a single game, Superbowl 49 will be the absolute last time I ever watch football.

Pinky swear or like swear to God?

 

[Doug Beerabelli]

A friend made this point - perhaps the deal is not the the suspension is reduced, but that Goodell removes himself as arbiter. Not necessarily a great deal for the Pats, but it's something. It saves a lot of time and money appealing to the court system to get the likely same result. Neutral arbiter, suspension reduced to zero, RG looks magnanimous in voluntarily stepping down, NFL saves some face.

Latest rumors appear to go against that, however.

 

[dabombdig]

Exactly. What does it say that we may have more questions regarding the integrity of the game for the NFL than the NBA? It is really a black mark on Goodell.

Yep and what might be most disappointing is the that national sports writers outside of a yahoo.com zip code do not have the stones to go after this guy. With the exception of Ray Rice (and not until the video) these guys have sat on their pens. Where was the outrage when he let a then NYJ all American QB walk with a 50k fine after sexually harassing a team employee and obstructing justice? Where are they when he uses low level employees as scapegoats (Pats employees and Dolphins o-line coach) to prove a point? They are culpable for allowing him to be completely ruthless in his prosecution/investigations and with people's reputations. Nothing but money chasing cowards - the whole lot of them. And don't even get me started on Bobby Kraft and the owners...

 

[RG33]

From the fan perspective, Kraft relenting sucks. However, from a business standpoint, it really was his only option. The other option was a long, drawn-out PR battle with the potential for an incredibly difficult litigation that would have cost millions, dragged the team and NFL through the mud for probably another couple of years, ending in the exact same result -- with futher penalties likely as punishment for all of the speaking out of turn. Kraft clearly could not rally other owners in support and decided to take another one for the league. I still highly doubt that he doesn't do everything in his power to get Goodell ultimately removed.

Brady is a totally different matter. I would be stunned if Goodell lessened the suspension to less than 2 games, and I would be even more stunned if Brady didn't go to court over any and every penalty that he would receive. If Goodell were to say "we'll take away the 4 games, but we're fining you $100,000", I still think Brady and the NFLPA take them to court. Brady has the recourse with the CBA, is not concerned at all about the League or the Patriots for that matter, and should fight to the death for anything that is less than total and complete exoneration.

Oh yeah, and the Pats are going into super-duper-FU-Mode in 2016 and if you don't want to watch it, that is totally cool. I'm completely on fucking board with the Pats kicking some ass next year.

 

[soxhop411]

From the fan perspective, Kraft relenting sucks. However, from a business standpoint, it really was his only option. The other option was a long, drawn-out PR battle with the potential for an incredibly difficult litigation that would have cost millions, dragged the team and NFL through the mud for probably another couple of years, ending in the exact same result -- with futher penalties likely as punishment for all of the speaking out of turn. Kraft clearly could not rally other owners in support and decided to take another one for the league. I still highly doubt that he doesn't do everything in his power to get Goodell ultimately removed.

Brady is a totally different matter. I would be stunned if Goodell lessened the suspension to less than 2 games, and I would be even more stunned if Brady didn't go to court over any and every penalty that he would receive. If Goodell were to say "we'll take away the 4 games, but we're fining you $100,000", I still think Brady and the NFLPA take them to court. Brady has the recourse with the CBA, is not concerned at all about the League or the Patriots for that matter, and should fight to the death for anything that is less than total and complete exoneration.

Oh yeah, and the Pats are going into super-duper-FU-Mode in 2016 and if you don't want to watch it, that is totally cool. I'm completely on fucking board with the Pats kicking some ass next year.

Yup

 

[RG33]

A friend made this point - perhaps the deal is not the the suspension is reduced, but that Goodell removes himself as arbiter. Not necessarily a great deal for the Pats, but it's something. It saves a lot of time and money appealing to the court system to get the likely same result. Neutral arbiter, suspension reduced to zero, RG looks magnanimous in voluntarily stepping down, NFL saves some face.
Latest rumors appear to go against that, however.

There is no deal. The Pats organization had zero leverage and the Brady issue is a separate matter. Kraft walked away to save himself and the other monies millions of dollars and months/years of this story staying in the spotlight.

The NFLPA and Brady have a ton of leverage. Only if Goodell completely exonerates Brady will there not be a lawsuit, and that is not happening.

 

[Ed Hillel]

What's going to suck is if they did "cheat" (however it should be defined), I don't think we'll ever definitively know.
 
So I'll just live my life thinking they didn't, as will probably most of us.

 
I have no idea if they did, honestly, but I will always be pissed at the punishment and the way the NFL handled this. They held the Pats over the coals in the media by leaking false information and never correcting it, and we find out now they also sent false information to the Patriots, as well. This would not have been handled this way for any other team in the league, and I'm 100% convinced of that. Call me a paranoid homer if you'd like, but it's clear at least one person in the FO had it out for the organization. The punishment only strengthens my beliefs; even if we assume they did it, the punishment is ridiculous. The Falcons got a 5th rounder for 2 years of proven rule-breaking. The whole process has been absolute bullshit, and there's no recourse whatsoever for the organization outside of going, suing, and risking getting kicked out of the league.
 
But absolutely Kraft is partially responsible for supporting this clown and publicly giving him a vote of confidence.
 
That entire speech today was about being part of the Old Boys Club and how it gives him a geriatric boner. Fuck that, take a pill.

 

[soxhop411]

Doesn't explain the sucking up.

He "sucked up"

 

[dabombdig]

I thought for a second that the play was to get Goodell to recuse himself from being the arbitrator, but then I remembered that his ego is bigger than all the SOSH deflated balls threads combined.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

I do not think there was a deal, at least not a fair one.

I do think most of the pressure came not from RG but from other owners. I mean proactive, steadfast, and fairly united urgings from the vast majority who wanted nothing but to end this immediately.

The only sensible guess as to not only the caving, but the tone and language used by Kraft.

 

[RG33]

Warning - none of this will sound rational, so if you are looking for that please move on to the next post...

At least you warned us. I wish I had avoided this whole thread. It stinks, it sucks, and it stinks.

 

[Maximus]

Kraft's decision was a smart decision for Bob Kraft, rich guy, but it sure as shit doesn't help me as a Pats fan.  A destructive scorched earth campaign doesn't cost me a time but might (just might) actually get that first round pick back and if the cost is that Kraft doesn't have quite the say in the league's marketing strategy and doesn't get to be in the Rooney/Mara club, well who gives a fuck.

Agreed, the 1st round pick is a huge issue, BB typically always finds a solid starter with their 1st round pick (if he doesn't trade it away).

 

[soxhop411]

I do not think there was a deal, at least not a fair one.

I do think most of the pressure came not from RG but from other owners. I mean proactive, steadfast, and fairly united urgings from the vast majority who wanted nothing but to end this immediately.

The only sensible guess as to not only the caving, but the tone and language used by Kraft.

Yup. I wonder if he went on with this if the other owners would have gotten pissed Enough to try and either kick Kraft out or punish him more

 

[Marciano490]

I gotta say, this is one of the most interesting things I've ever watched in my life. It's a masterclass in wide-scale manipulation and bias confirmation. Not to be hyperbolic, but I feel like so many things throughout history or the promulgation and vitality of so many ideas that never made sense to me now are clear.

 

[scotian1]

Why didn't he just say that despite all his issues with the investigation it was not productive for the team to launch an appeal? He could have sent it out as a text. I don't think he needed to be as appeasing as he was.

 

[dcmissle]

There plainly was no support from other owners, and that should not be surprising:

1. Most of them probably believe the Pats were messing with the footballs.

2. While the sanctions were draconian, the sanctions on other teams and individuals have been equally severe in recent years. In those occasions Kraft either was silent or a vocal supporter of Goodell.

3. The other teams benefit from these sanctions.

No tears were shed or sleep lost over the fate of poor Bob Kraft. Instead it was, get in line and make as much of this go away as you can.

 

[Dirty Sanchez Forever]

They're not getting kicked out of the league arguing against a consultant that produced a report light on logic and antagonistic toward science and common sense. 

 

[RG33]

Losing the 32nd pick in the 2016 NFL draft sucks, but the Patriots will go on.

 

[Ed Hillel]

2. While the sanctions were draconian, the sanctions on other teams and individuals have been equally severe in recent years. In those occasions Kraft either was silent or a vocal supporter of Goodell.

 
The Falcons lost a 5th rounder a few months ago for what I would consider is a comparable violation, though I agree with your bit about Kraft.

 

[patinorange]

I lived through Billy Sullivan an Victor Kiam. I love Bob Kraft.
I am disappointed in the organization for letting this crap happen and tarnishing their legacy. But in the big picture, as a fan, I have been through much worse. He did the right thing today.

 

[RIFan]

If a deal was made, it was more between Kraft and other owners. Other than a full realization that he couldn't win and more skeletons may come out of the closet, I can see a scenario where other owners made it clear to Kraft that if he backs down and accepts the punishment that he'll have their support when it comes time to oust Goodell. If he fights it and drags the NFL through the mud, the retaliation would be to remove him from key committee positions and minimize his influence.

 

[Ed Hillel]

They're not getting kicked out of the league arguing against a consultant that produced a report light on logic and antagonistic toward science and common sense. 

 
If Kraft had sued the league, you can bet your ass there would have been at least a few owners calling for his head. How much traction it would have gained, I don't know, but I think it was a definite risk. They all agreed to the bylaws, you don't circumvent them without consequences from the other money-grubbing billionaires. He also has to consider his son's future.
 
His statement and approach still sucked.

 

[ifmanis5]

I wonder how many flawed Simmons-esque analogies we can dream up?

Something something Shawshank Rounders Fast and Furious Teen Wolf?
 
 
Kraft did the right thing but on the other hand I'd have totally enjoyed a good old fashioned tirade aimed at all the haters which include the league, Roger, the media and most fans who have been getting beat for 15 years so badly that all they want is revenge, no matter the facts.
 
In honor of Malcolm X's birthday today, perhaps his words might apply?

Oh, I say and I say it again, ya been had!
Ya been took!
Ya been hoodwinked!
Bamboozled!
Led astray!
Run amok!

 

[uncannymanny]

Seems fairly obvious. Kraft does a shaken surprise press conference where he backs down on the first day of the owner's meetings just by happenstance? C'mon.

Really kept hammering a couple phrases, one being "rhetoric". It was really an odd statement.

 

[nighthob]

If a deal was made, it was more between Kraft and other owners. Other than a full realization that he couldn't win and more skeletons may come out of the closet, I can see a scenario where other owners made it clear to Kraft that if he backs down and accepts the punishment that he'll have their support when it comes time to oust Goodell. If he fights it and drags the NFL through the mud, the retaliation would be to remove him from key committee positions and minimize his influence.

This is my thought, as well. The owners are clearly furious with how stupid this whole situation has made the NFL look and want it to go away, but Goodell isn't smart enough to have buried the story. So Kraft has walked away and when the next contract renewal comes up the Artless Roger will find that he no longer has the votes. (Plus, let's face it, he's going to butcher the next CBA negotiations between now and then.)

 

[kelpapa]

I was in elementary school when the krafts took over. The guy has been probably the best owner in sports since then. What he did today was awful for me, and it must have been even more brutal for him. There was a reason he made that choice today and he deserves support given what he's done for the fan base.

 

[sonofgodcf]

I'm disappointed.  Kraft did the right thing today, for his business.  I don't want to root for a business, I want to root for a team.  Events like this shine a bright light on the reality of the sport which just makes it harder for me to enjoy.  I can't fault him for protecting his business but I don't have to like it.

 

[Ralphwiggum]

Kraft's mistake was backing Goodell last summer during the apex of the Rice debacle. His options here were limited and I don't blame him at all for doing what he did today. He has close to zero support outside of New England, people need to recognize that.

The idea that Bob Kraft is going to get booed by the fans at the Stadium he built, with mostly private money, instead of moving the team to St Louis or Connecticut, during the ceremony when they will be raising the fourth Super Bowl banner during his tenure as owner, is the most hilariously out of touch sentiment I have seen expressed on SOSH maybe ever.

 

[kelpapa]

Warning - none of this will sound rational, so if you are looking for that please move on to the next post...
 
Yeah, upset is probably an understatement.  Better words would be outraged, demoralized, betrayed...  It's the same feeling I had in the late 90's when Kraft backed out of the deal with Hartford, my hometown.  I thought the guy was a fake and a coward back then, but now I am convinced of it.  I had a feeling in my gut leading up to the Owners Meeting that he would once again take the practical, safer road for his wallet.  And that's exactly what he did.
 
What Kraft did today signifies to me that the Pats are either cheaters or cowards.  And those are two qualities I can't support in a sports team.  Call me naive but I really did think the Pats were innocent of tampering with the balls after inspection.  I spent countless hours reading reports and defending the team on football forums, only to be left out to dry by an owner who is more concerned about playing nice in his corrupt billionaire's sandbox.  If Kraft had his own house in order he should have gotten to the bottom of this mess far earlier and not even fought it like he did.  It's one thing for a dopey fan like me to naively believe in the team, but not the owner of the team.  And when is it the right time to start talking about the FACT now that his team has just received the two hardest punishments in the history of the League.  Two time cheaters in a 7 year period.  That is now undeniable and part of the public record, a permanent stain on not only the Patriots but also the NFL.  After Spygate this Organization should have been squeaky clean, from top to bottom.  No excuses - that's on Kraft.  I'm starting to think that he really is the buffoon he looks to be and just got lucky by landing Belichik and Brady.
 
This whole ordeal has completely soured me to the team and the NFL.  I've been a Pats fan for over 40 years but after today I am done.  My interest in the League had already been waining since Goodell took over, but now it's complete.  Just moved into a new house in the country and looking forward to spending a lot of time outdoors this fall on Sundays.  Maybe this is a good thing after all.

You were defending him on forums and he let you down? I'm glad you are off the band wagon.