#DFG: Canceling the Noise
- Thread starter nattysez
- Start date
J.McG said:
I really hope not. I love mythbusters, but they'd fuck it up. The conclusions would still be based on bad starting data, so it would basically boil down to "probably deflated" but they'd bust the part that suggests it's a competitive advantage, which is the safe answer that looks like it would play both sides, but I believe no deflation actually occurred and those who believe he cheated will say that is doesn't matter if the competitive advantage was real or imagined, an attempt to cheat took place.
I already had to be disappointed in Bill Bye and NGT. Mythbusters are the only "scientists" left that Joe public would believe, unless Morgan Freeman comes in to save the day.
Buster Onley is just repeating what some folks in baseball say, and it's crap. Pitchers get better grip, they can get more rotational spin on the ball which results in more ball movement. It's definitely a competitive advantage, but rule enforcement has declined in recent years.
As for Brady wanting 12.5 PSI. It is unclear if he actually wants the footballs at 12.5 or rather he wants them set to the lower limit of 12.5 to avoid refs issuing balls at 15.8 PSI {Jets game}. It's possible that if he could get exactly what he wanted, he'd like it set at say 13.1.
As for Brady wanting 12.5 PSI. It is unclear if he actually wants the footballs at 12.5 or rather he wants them set to the lower limit of 12.5 to avoid refs issuing balls at 15.8 PSI {Jets game}. It's possible that if he could get exactly what he wanted, he'd like it set at say 13.1.
BoredViewer said:
I kind of doubt this is the case, but it would be amazing if they had Brady playing with rocks next year and he just started bombing it to Tyms every week.
Also, can you imagine if it came out that the Jets equipment guys found the refs altered their balls to be out of the legal range in a game against NE? "Kraft buys off refs. More at 11." But when the refs do it to the Pats it somehow becomes evidence of the Pats' guilt.
This theory makes a lot of sense. Really hope Brady's appeal goes the no half measures route and destroys this farce.Gambler7 said:
Jimbodandy said:
Until you find out it's Sean Berry and that's where's he's getting all those quotes he's posting in P+G
I'm not expecting Mort to trade his livlihood for Brady's, but if he got burned as badly as he seems to have, wouldnt you think he'd be motivated to set the record straight? wouldn't you think he'd be digging the deepest on this and be the loudest voice trying to help Brady redeem himself? Is he under a gag order from ESPN? How does he sleep at night knowing that his getting played could cost Brady his legacy and he's sitting on his hands? is he standing by his sources? WTF?
Good question. I'd love a 30 For 30 on the real story behind that Mort Tweet. A very damaging 140 word post.dcmissle said:
For the life of me, I don't understand how Goodell can do this. Two possibilities:
(1) Vincent was the one, as Goodell has implied on several occasions now, who actually determined the penalty for Brady. If that's so, that's a direct violation of the CBA.
(2) If all Vincent was doing was passing on Goodell's penalty against Brady, then Goodell is in a clear conflict of interest here. You can't be both the prosecuting attorney and the judge in the same case.
If (2) is how the owners set up the rules, then I hope Brady's lawsuit not only wins him back his 4 games, but also has the added effect of causing Goodell to lose his job, as well as this entire stupid system to go kaput. I hope Brady breaks this process completely.
(1) Vincent was the one, as Goodell has implied on several occasions now, who actually determined the penalty for Brady. If that's so, that's a direct violation of the CBA.
(2) If all Vincent was doing was passing on Goodell's penalty against Brady, then Goodell is in a clear conflict of interest here. You can't be both the prosecuting attorney and the judge in the same case.
If (2) is how the owners set up the rules, then I hope Brady's lawsuit not only wins him back his 4 games, but also has the added effect of causing Goodell to lose his job, as well as this entire stupid system to go kaput. I hope Brady breaks this process completely.
I want to see Goodell actually talk to Brady face to face, assuming that doesn't stop this from going to court if that ends badly.
ivanvamp said:
You can when you sign off on an agreement to do exactly that. Fortunately, Goodell appeared to ignore his obligations under the CBA for the sake of PR by asking Vincent to make the initial ruling.
Ah, I had NFLN on. That's still a good 10 weeks, though.
Part of me has hoped that one reason Brady didn't turn over the phone was that, in duscussing the Deflategate issue, he had some not so nice things to say about Goodell and the league. Imagine if Brady turned over the phone to Goodell personally and let him read them one by one. That will never happen obviously, but it's fun to think about.
He may have been on their other shows like NFL Live, I just don't watch it. I don't get a sense that he was reprimanded, if that's what you're getting at.Ed Hillel said:
https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/601842218480074752nattysez said:
link to tweet
Good. I'm all in on getting this into a Court of Law, and this gives us the best odds of that happening. Fuck RG and his minions.
The question now is whether TB sues and moves to enjoin the proceeding before RG, or whether he goes through the process then sues. TB has preserved, from a legal standpoint, all of the arguments attacking the proceeding before Goodell. If goes through with it and then sues, he may save valuable time. On the other hand, suing now is tempting for a couple of reasons.
So we are waiting now on this important tactical decision.
So we are waiting now on this important tactical decision.
dcmissle said:
What grounds is he suing on at this point? That Vincent made the original ruling? If that's the case, wouldn't that just result in the decision getting sent back to Roger, who would then issue the same punishment and hear the appeal again? Or would suing now also allow the Brady camp to get their hands on some documentation that could be of help for the long run?
So, Goodell knows he won't win with a truly independent arbitrator, so he'll make sure to appoint someone (himself) who's not independent and ensure that he'll win.
INTEGRITY!
My guess: vincent issuing the discipline a no-no, and RG not impartial to hear any appeal. So you would be asking for an order compelling RG to issue the discipline, if any, and the appointment of a neutral To hear any appeal.
Edit -- this in response to Ed
Edit -- this in response to Ed
Question for any of the attorneys. If Brady takes this to court I know he has to turn over his cell phone records, emails, etc. can the NFLPA get a subpoena for emails, phone calls and texts for Roger Goodell, Troy Vincent, Jeff Pash, Ted Wells, Mike Kensil, Dean Blandino, Alberto Riveron, Walt Anderson, Jim Irsay, Ryan Grigson, Chuck Pagano and John Harbaugh?
Yeah, I figured. I see how they win the first, but the second was specifically bargained for. Don't we just end up with Goodell issuing a ruling, Goodell hearing the appeal, and then right back in court? In the interests of time, it would seem more prudent to just let Goodell hear this and then appeal, but there may be something I am missing.dcmissle said:
jsinger121 said:
I really question that Brady has to turn anything over in the event he goes to court. If the hearing is based on the unfairness of the process and the conclusions drawn from the evidence presented, there's no reason for him to be required to turn over his phone. You can't introduce new evidence as part of an appeal, which is arguably what this would be.
In other news, NFL is now denying that Goodell has rejected the union's request to name a neutral.
This explanation makes no sense -- if the lawyers have submitted the papers, then it's official.
Can someone explain this to me from Goodell's standpoint? Clearly there is some level of incompetence from him, but surely not to the point where Goodell's decision is entirely explained by stupidity. I mean, there have to be lawyers working for the NFL who have told him this is exactly what would happen, so the only conclusion I can come to is that Goodell wants this case to go to court, no?
If that is the case, why would Goodell want to take this to court, when many (to my mind) objective observers are saying he will certainly lose?
If that is the case, why would Goodell want to take this to court, when many (to my mind) objective observers are saying he will certainly lose?
slamminsammya said:
Because they don't care about the court case. This is a PR-driven strategy to project a certain image of the league office that they believe is crucial to maintaining their audience. What they've learned from Rice and Peterson cases is that tossing out the CBA and Looking Tough gets the public response they want and being reversed later doesn't change the perception of the league's stance. On the flip side, coming up light on discipline is negative PR they never want to feel again. It's actually a totally rational risk analysis for the NFL to just say "fuck it, every time there's a sticky news cycle we just look at tough as we can and let the lawyers figure it out later". As long as no union or judicial lever exists to force Goodell to abide by the CBA pre-litigation, they're practically incentivized not to.
For Goodell to appoint an independent arbitrator at this point would be like folding when he could stand. There's no downside for him to hear Brady out and try to make a quiet deal.
Isn't this the most likely explanation: Goodell is going to commute Brady's sentence, or substantially reduce it...all in a strategy to get the NFLPA to back off.
(The most surprising aspect of this whole thing is the lack of union members vocally backing their rights against a stacked deck)
(The most surprising aspect of this whole thing is the lack of union members vocally backing their rights against a stacked deck)
slamminsammya said:
JimBoSox9 said:
It's more than just PR. The NFL and the NFLPA are repeat players playing this "game" against one another. Therefore, they have a vested interest not just in the outcome of each case, but in the rules that are promulgated that will govern future cases.
In this game, the NFL basically always argues for the unfettered, unchecked power and authority of the commissioner and the rest of the league office. Hell, they're even appealing the Rice decision and that ruling is about as straightforward as it gets.
You're all over it. One reason to file suit now is to get a judicial ruling that the NFL cannot do this Texas two-step within the Commissioner's office. No matter how this proceeds, it looks like crap. Win/win for Union.Ed Hillel said: