#DFG: Canceling the Noise
- Thread starter nattysez
- Start date
The irony about the Volin tweet is that there's a damn good chance that somebody with a Pats connection of some kind(Brady? Kraft? an influential GOP strategist working with Brady to help clear a path for Brady to become a GOP governor/senator someday? Ernie Adams? LIttlefinger?) probably did lobby the shit out of the AEI to get them to do the study. If he'd actually done work he might have gotten a legitimately interesting story.
Kevin Hassett at AEI may have debunked the Wells report simply because that is what he does--debunks popular (invariably liberal) myths through statistical
analysis. I guess that got him looking at injury rates and finding the Saints didn't cause more injuries in Bountygate. Of course his method isn't foolproof
--taking out quarterbacks might not rise to overall statistical significance. Another example is his New Year's Eve debunking of the myth that blacks are
unfairly targets of police violence--he produced a graph showing rather that "African-Americans engage disproportionately in violent crime" as the key. But
I'm not sure that really explains Ferguson. Anyway I think his Deflategate work stands or falls on its merits--and I think it's solid, sensible math.
analysis. I guess that got him looking at injury rates and finding the Saints didn't cause more injuries in Bountygate. Of course his method isn't foolproof
--taking out quarterbacks might not rise to overall statistical significance. Another example is his New Year's Eve debunking of the myth that blacks are
unfairly targets of police violence--he produced a graph showing rather that "African-Americans engage disproportionately in violent crime" as the key. But
I'm not sure that really explains Ferguson. Anyway I think his Deflategate work stands or falls on its merits--and I think it's solid, sensible math.
amarshal2 said:
We don't need to censor conversations to appease delicate sensibilities. His point was that Hassett has a history of going after certain discussions, but that he felt this particular research seemed levelheaded. Pointing out the potential land mines in his post does more harm then good.
Move along.
Shelterdog said:
Perhaps Bob "Mr. Columbia" Kraft? Hassett link.
P.S. I don't think it's that obvious a smoking gun, but it is a commonality that both share...
I've never been in their kitchen...Eddie Jurak said:
Edit: Turns out it's they've never been in my kitchen. Memory's a funny thing...
Yeah, I don't think Pats fans should have to go another forum to learn about the authors of this report simply because some people can't cope with even a reference to the fact that people on this world sometimes disagree about politics.amarshal2 said:
I like to believe we can handle it.
My sole purpose in posting info re K. Hassett from the AEI website and a snippet from Wikipedia re place of birth and the Ivy educational background was so people on this board would have a fair picture anticipating an inevitable attack by some hater on the AEI report's credibility (or that of its authors).There is no Rev said:
Alright, how about we stop discussing people who used to work at AEI altogether?
This isn't directed at anyone specifically, but is just an observation that the report has specific authors and should stand on its methodology.
This isn't directed at anyone specifically, but is just an observation that the report has specific authors and should stand on its methodology.
There is no Rev said:
Hart: "I got an idea, let's make the car a place of silent reflection from now on. Okay?"
edited for spelling
Rev is right. People are so friggin' lazy that they'd rather take the time to Google for an hour to find some shred of information that could conceivably make them biased than read the actual merits of a report. And you have dummies like Volin who want to do that, but never mention that the Wells Report was paid for by the NFL and that Wells is a major client of the NFL.
Basis for NFLPA/Brady's appeal outlined in letter to NFL: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/16/bradys-appeal-calls-wells-report-dubious-contradictory/
Not much detail yet.
Not much detail yet.
If this Cardinals hacking thing blows up in the next day or so, Rog should just vacate Brady's suspension at like 5pm tomorrow or Thursday while everyone on Around the Horn is screaming at each other about this new cheating scandal.
I am going to comment, but freely admit there might be a SOSH V&N reference going completely over my head.
Link to the Study in pdf: AEI Study On the Wells report
I get it. People are skeptical of partisan groups and individuals, but there is enough information in the report to criticize a flawed argument.
The report is only 16 pages and a quick read. The focus is on whether the direct evidence can prove a violation occurred. The authors present the direct evidence used to justify Well's conclusion, their own analysis of the direct evidence, and their conclusions from that analysis. No, they don't talk about text messages or 1 minute 40 second trips to the bathroom. It's not because the circumstantial evidence is smoking gun direct evidence, as Well's believes, but rather it is predicated entirely in the context of a violation occuring in the first place.
Link to the Study in pdf: AEI Study On the Wells report
I get it. People are skeptical of partisan groups and individuals, but there is enough information in the report to criticize a flawed argument.
The report is only 16 pages and a quick read. The focus is on whether the direct evidence can prove a violation occurred. The authors present the direct evidence used to justify Well's conclusion, their own analysis of the direct evidence, and their conclusions from that analysis. No, they don't talk about text messages or 1 minute 40 second trips to the bathroom. It's not because the circumstantial evidence is smoking gun direct evidence, as Well's believes, but rather it is predicated entirely in the context of a violation occuring in the first place.
Ed Hillel said:
That's their only recourse. Reporters are supposed to report new information. When that information is already provided (such as the public release of the Wells report), then all they can do is paraphrase the executive summary.
When a subsequent conflicting report is released publicly, then they can still paraphrase the report, but how do they reconcile the difference between the two reports? They can't critically appraise the report because they don't have those skills, so they fall back on the old adage that you can pay experts to say what you want. As a result, they look for bias. End of story.
Sorry, what is the Cardinals hacking story? I did a full google search and (yuck) searched pro football talk.tims4wins said:
St. Loius CardinalsBuster Olney the Lonely said:
http://sonsofsamhorn.net/topic/89890-cardinals-under-fbi-investigation-for-hacking-astros/
From lead of NYTimes story ( and yes, this should be in another forum, but just responding to Buster):Buster Olney the Lonely said:
WASHINGTON — The F.B.I. and Justice Department prosecutors are investigating whether front-office officials for the St. Louis Cardinals, one of the most successful teams in baseball over the past two decades, hacked into internal networks of a rival team to steal closely guarded information about player personnel.
Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
There's a tweet that I saw but now cannot find with the two of them sitting together and a caption something like "hmmm..."
Of course we all know LaRussa doesn't even know how to operate a computer. Or a breathalyzer, for that matter.
RIrooter09 said:
It won't be, but it's a FAR more egregious thing than anything the Patriots have ever done. We're talking about actions at high levels of the Cardinals organization, doing things that not only would be against MLB rules, but violate federal law. Taping signals in violation of a league memo didn't warrant a freaking FBI/Justice Dept investigation.
DrewDawg said:
I know but I was under the impression this wasn't just "this year". I'm just playing anyway but clearly there's a slight Cardinals/Patriots connection with the HC and former manager.
BelichickFan said:
As I was saying :
According to the Times, the FBI believes that Cardinals officials gained access to the Astros' database by using a list of passwords associated with Astros general manager Jeff Luhnow dating to his tenure with the Cardinals from 2003 until he left for Houston after the 2011 season.
BelichickFan said:
The passwords they stole may overlap with LaRussa's tenure, but the investigation is focusing on last year.
For the record, I am a Pats fan and I was glad to read the AEI report (though I am skeptical that it will change anything). With the way this whole thing has been handled by the NFL and in the media, I have given up hope that there will ever be a fair and just outcome for Brady and the Pats on this matter.
Also, to clarify, I am not questioning the integrity or quality of the report, or the decision to publish it. I'm concerned that others will find ways to do that, and they will get more media play than the report itself. I also do not believe politics played a role in AEI's decision to take this on.
Hopefully that is clear.
Also, would it be possible to have a separate Deflategate news only thread? This forum is a great source of updates, but it's hard to wade through all of the discussion in this thread and find the relevant news items. Just a thought.
Also, to clarify, I am not questioning the integrity or quality of the report, or the decision to publish it. I'm concerned that others will find ways to do that, and they will get more media play than the report itself. I also do not believe politics played a role in AEI's decision to take this on.
Hopefully that is clear.
Also, would it be possible to have a separate Deflategate news only thread? This forum is a great source of updates, but it's hard to wade through all of the discussion in this thread and find the relevant news items. Just a thought.
While I generally agree with your assessment, I don't think it necessarily extends to Brady and his suspension. If it goes before a federal judge, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a fair re-evaluation of the entire question of whether there is any proof of wrongdoing. However, even if Brady's suspension is wiped out entirely, the public will not change its mind. The public likes the story as it is right now and does not want to (a) devote any more energy to evaluating the evidence, or (b) be confused by the facts. So Brady's reputation is tarnished for a long time, at least until he's in the Hall of Fame and deflategate is put into perspective as people start to focus once again on his accomplishments on the field.