#DFG: Canceling the Noise

Is there any level of suspension that you would advise Tom to accept?


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Gunfighter 09

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As a non Pats fan who thinks this is a huge miscarriage of justice and common sense, I hope Brady gets an injunction until after the season and then retires.

I also hope Kraft is lining up owners to depose RG if the shield takes a beating in court.
 

Bongorific

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ivanvamp said:
Goodell citing Brady's destruction of his phone is a load of crap.  Brady already made it clear he wasn't turning it over to Goodell.  Moreover, they DID offer to put all those calls and texts out there for the record, and said if Goodell wanted to know what's there he can contact the people on the other end of those calls and texts.  Goodell said that's not practical.  Too f-ing bad.  They spent $5 million and several months putting the Wells Report together.  They could have easily gone and tried to get this information that Brady offered.  They didn't.  
 
The destruction of the phone (honestly, whatever THAT means) sounds and looks bad, no doubt.  But it's nothing more than Brady saying, no really, you are NOT going to get my phone, period - something he already made abundantly clear.  Would it really have been any different in reality if Brady simply said, look, the phone is buried in a vault and it's never coming out, period?  If that had been the case, would Goodell have said, oh well, as long as you didn't destroy it, that's fine?
 
No, he wouldn't.  
Goodwill wouldn't have changed his position. I agree with you there. But there is a difference between destroying evidence and withholding it.
 

DJnVa

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Bongorific said:
Goodwill wouldn't have changed his position. I agree with you there. But there is a difference between destroying evidence and withholding it.
 
Is it really withholding evidence if the league has no claim on it? Someone refusing to testify against themselves isn't said to be withholding evidence.
 
It was Brady's private property. The league has absolutely no claim on it at all. They weren't engaged in some back and forth negotiation. The NFL has no legal right to examine his phone. They wanted to go fishing.
 

Bongorific

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DrewDawg said:
 
Is it really withholding evidence if the league has no claim on it? Someone refusing to testify against themselves isn't said to be withholding evidence.
 
It was Brady's private property. The league has absolutely no claim on it at all.
I agree completely that the league was not entitled to the physical phone or its contents. Whether you want to call it withholding evidence, denying evidence, etc., the principal is the same. As an individual, you are allowed to do whatever you want with your cell phone. Keep it, ditch it, flush it down the toilet, give it away. And your employer is not entitled to tell you what to do with it. When you're in the middle of a process her will likely lead to litigation, the analysis changes.
 

lithos2003

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Bongorific said:
They were pretty far into the "anticipating litigation" test if it was destroyed around the time of the Wells investigation.

Even if it is true that he always destroys his cell phones, I don't think it's the best argument to make. I agree with not turning over the cell phone. That is a gross overstep of employer authority. To me, even if the demand was as limited as Wells claims, I'm still not complying unless we are in actual litigation discovery or there's a court order. Having said that, it wasn't very smart to destroy the phone.
 
I'm probably just adding noise to the thread by pointing this out but.. with regards to the bolded, what litigation are you referring to?  RG had no right to that phone under any circumstances outside of a court case of some sort, which we couldn't have gotten to until this point.  So, are you saying that Brady should have anticipated that this whole charade would go this far (to federal court) at that point in time?  Or are we just confusing the differences between the NFL's arbitration process and a true court case, because they're very different.
 

dcmissle

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Withholding and destroying are two very different things. To this day, we don't have a definitive ruling whether the NFL was entitled to it and , if so, under what conditions. That was to come in federal court.

There is right and wrong and this was wrong. Maybe done with honest intentions -- but wrong.

Kessler would have told him that at the time and almost certainly has since.
 

lithos2003

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dcmissle said:
Withholding and destroying are two very different things. To this day, we don't have a definitive ruling whether the NFL was entitled to it and , if so, under what conditions. That was to come in federal court.

There is right and wrong and this was wrong. Maybe done with honest intentions -- but wrong.

Kessler would have told him that at the time and almost certainly has since.
 
I get that and I'm not saying he wasn't wrong to do it.  But if you look at this through Brady's point of view, someone who's never even remotely been in trouble with the league, I could completely see him never believing it would honestly get this far.  There are plenty of innocuous reasons he might have destroyed the phone, and plenty of nefarious ones too.  But if you're innocent and viewing everything through that lens, the thought that this may look bad 4+ months later in federal court probably never crosses your mind. which is why I was curious about the "anticipating litigation" test.
 

tbb345

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dcmissle said:
Withholding and destroying are two very different things. To this day, we don't have a definitive ruling whether the NFL was entitled to it and , if so, under what conditions. That was to come in federal court.

There is right and wrong and this was wrong. Maybe done with honest intentions -- but wrong.

Kessler would have told him that at the time and almost certainly has since.
In following this thread and reading your posts you seem to think that the "destroying" of the phone is a game changer, one that really screws TB's chances of getting his suspension reduced. Why is that? With all the other ridiculous stuff going on in this case (Goodell using crap science he basically paid for that has been disproven, numerous leaks, possible sting operation) why does this one stand so far apart?
Also, would it change your mind if "destroyed" got clarified more and the real explanation didn't sound as bad (I don't know when I hear destroyed I picture Brady smashing his phone and stepping on it ala Pineapple Express when hearing Wells wants to look at it) and was more reasonable? Or is it the fact that he seems to have tried to get rid of texts and data that is the problem?
 

dcmissle

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lithos2003 said:
 
I get that and I'm not saying he wasn't wrong to do it.  But if you look at this through Brady's point of view, someone who's never even remotely been in trouble with the league, I could completely see him never believing it would honestly get this far.  There are plenty of innocuous reasons he might have destroyed the phone, and plenty of nefarious ones too.  But if you're innocent and viewing everything through that lens, the thought that this may look bad 4+ months later in federal court probably never crosses your mind. which is why I was curious about the "anticipating litigation" test.
Agreed. Which is why Yee had no business representing Brady during the Wells investigation. He is an agent with a law degree, for God's sake. Kessler should have been involved from the jump. Somebody really dropped the ball on that call.
 

dcmissle

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tbb345 said:
In following this thread and reading your posts you seem to think that the "destroying" of the phone is a game changer, one that really screws TB's chances of getting his suspension reduced. Why is that? With all the other ridiculous stuff going on in this case (Goodell using crap science he basically paid for that has been disproven, numerous leaks, possible sting operation) why does this one stand so far apart?
Also, would it change your mind if "destroyed" got clarified more and the real explanation didn't sound as bad (I don't know when I hear destroyed I picture Brady smashing his phone and stepping on it ala Pineapple Express when hearing Wells wants to look at it) and was more reasonable? Or is it the fact that he seems to have tried to get rid of texts and data that is the problem?
The danger posed by this was discussed at length this afternoon in this thread.

Destruction means any act that irretrievably loses potentially relevant information. I don't care how it is done.
 

HriniakPosterChild

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baghdadjamie said:
Sure they could but then they would look even more retarded. His phone bill will have a record of every number he has sent/received a call/text. You bounce that period of texts/call off the list.
 
Why will his phone bill have a list of iMessage "texts"? Those go through Apple servers and appear as encrypted data to the carrier.
 

JimBoSox9

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It's razzle-dazzle, but it's solid razzle-dazzle. What it isn't is a PR battle, though, because Brady barely seems to be fighting on that front at all. The high ground is the scope of Goodell's power as appeals arbitrator and what the league is entitled to from players during an investigation. It wouldn't surprise me even if the cellphone destruction was a calculated decision.
 

Hoya81

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Even if the phone had remained intact, does Brady have the right to provide his communications without the consent of the recipient? Would they have had to sign off as well? 
 

lexrageorge

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lithos2003 said:
 
I'm probably just adding noise to the thread by pointing this out but.. with regards to the bolded, what litigation are you referring to?  RG had no right to that phone under any circumstances outside of a court case of some sort, which we couldn't have gotten to until this point.  So, are you saying that Brady should have anticipated that this whole charade would go this far (to federal court) at that point in time?  Or are we just confusing the differences between the NFL's arbitration process and a true court case, because they're very different.
I can certainly see a scenario where Brady thought "OK, I told them what I know; there's nothing on here that's going to change that.  So let me destroy it now before the prying hands of the media get hold of something totally unrelated but embarrassing just the same".  If he did that without consulting Yee, or if he ignored Yee's advice, then that's Brady being a bit unaware of the optics.  Maybe innocently unaware, but unaware just the same, given that Wells did ask for some access to the contents of the phone.  
 
The problem is that it's too easy to assume that Brady destroyed incriminating evidence, no matter how off base that assumption may be.  And as we don't know what was actually on that phone, we can only speculate, which gives clowns like Munson more air time to flout their pseudo-legal credentials on ESPN. 
 

DJnVa

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Ed Hillel said:
Florio is already backing off a bit, citing to Brady's spreadsheet provided to Roger during the appeal.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/07/28/brady-offered-to-help-nfl-gather-missing-text-messages/
 
I think Florio is running with this tonight because he's being promised something else tomorrow.
 
 
So, was Brady gambling that the league:
 
1--wouldn't try to track the down the numbers? 
2--that if they did, whoever they talked to wouldn't cooperate?
 
That seems like a dangerous gamble--would you really proclaim innocence then provide the means to show that you are lying and hope that the other side, which *seems* ro really want to nail you, simply wouldn't do the legwork? The NFL could have at least called Brady's bluff. Instead, they just said no and went with the headline grabber. Why not take the list and spot check? Why dismiss out of hand?
 

Ed Hillel

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I still think there's something missing. Maybe Brady provided all his relevant emails and the league is just completely ignoring them, something like that. We don't have the entire story.

And I expect a story soon from Florio about Wells claiming privilege. That part is really bothersome to me. There was no transparency whatsoever.
 

GBrushTWood

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DrewDawg said:
But it's a PR battle and Brady got a standing 8 count today.
 
Is it really still a PR battle though? It's crystal clear there are groups of people who vehemently believe Brady is guilty, and just as many (like us) who believe Brady is innocent. Nothing that came out today changes what those groups believe. 
In fact, the only thing that matters right now is what impact the phone has on the judge's decision. Public opinion on Brady was decided a long time ago. Newsflash: for the most part, they hate us. 
 
On the phone destruction topic, I'm surprised nobody has raised the possibility that the phone data was backed up before physically being destroyed. Isn't it possible the text message headers and details are sitting on Brady's or someone else's computer in addition to the physical phone being destroyed? This kind of backup is basic stuff on any iOS or Android phone. Isn't it just like the NFL to hone in on 1 particular detail and villainize a player without taking the entire context into consideration? Maybe the text messages can be restored with a few clicks. Maybe Brady told them "hey, in full disclosure, i got rid of the phone, but I have the data backed up." I don't particularly understand why he would do this, but it's within the realm of possibility.
 
Given there was no timetable whatsoever on the decision, I think we should give Kessler and the NFLPA at least a few days to counter attack today's NFL strike. The NFL has clearly been meticulously planning the last few weeks of leaks and today's decision. Alright, give them credit, they were in the drivers seat. I'm not going to get too concerned until at least listening to the other side of the story. 
 
Bottom line - plenty of twists and turns still to come on this.
 

Hoya81

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GBrushTWood said:
 
Is it really still a PR battle though? It's crystal clear there are groups of people who vehemently believe Brady is guilty, and just as many (like us) who believe Brady is innocent. Nothing that came out today changes what those groups believe. 
In fact, the only thing that matters right now is what impact the phone has on the judge's decision. Public opinion on Brady was decided a long time ago. Newsflash: for the most part, they hate us. 
 
On the phone destruction topic, I'm surprised nobody has raised the possibility that the phone data was backed up before physically being destroyed. Isn't it possible the text message headers and details are sitting on Brady's or someone else's computer in addition to the physical phone being destroyed? This kind of backup is basic stuff on any iOS or Android phone. Isn't it just like the NFL to hone in on 1 particular detail and villainize a player without taking the entire context into consideration? Maybe the text messages can be restored with a few clicks. Maybe Brady told them "hey, in full disclosure, i got rid of the phone, but I have the data backed up." I don't particularly understand why he would do this, but it's within the realm of possibility.
 
Given there was no timetable whatsoever on the decision, I think we should give Kessler and the NFLPA at least a few days to counter attack today's NFL strike. The NFL has clearly been meticulously planning the last few weeks of leaks and today's decision. Alright, give them credit, they were in the drivers seat. I'm not going to get too concerned until at least listening to the other side of the story. 
 
Bottom line - plenty of twists and turns still to come on thi
It's possible that if he switched from a Android/Windows/BB to an iPhone (he was seen buying an Apple Watch in April) that everything is truly gone.
 

garlan5

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I didn't bother to scan much further than the first page so some may have touched on this and i'll also add I'm not a Patriots fan.  I have however always defended TB and BB because to me they play the game right and are dedicated to winning.  Where I'm from people mostly despise Brady and really, really despise BB and love guys like Manning, etc..  I've found myself in many arguments defending Brady versus Manning for years.  I realize this is a mostly New England board but I have to say this is the one topic I cant back Brady on.  I think he's guilty and I'd be happy if he was suspended the whole year. Of course I think the same punishment should be for PED users if not  harsher.  I think its clear Brady wanted those balls air pressure lower and the only possible way he wasn't involved (in my mind) is if there were some conspiracy against him by the nfl.....and thats crazy talk in my mind.   Destroying the phone is just the icing on the cake. If he were innocent he'd clearly hand that thing over and help his case.  
 

GBrushTWood

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Hoya81 said:
It's possible that if he switched from a Android/Windows/BB to an iPhone (he was seen buying an Apple Watch in April) that everything is truly gone.
 
When phone data is backed up, it's done externally to the physical handset. This enables restoration to any other equivalent handset. If that scenario you described occurred, he could simply restore data from a backup to any other Android/Windows/BB phone. If there was no backup, then of course, the data could be gone. But we're all speculating.
 
I haven't the slightest clue to Brady's smartphone OS preferences, or whether he backed up the data, but I'm open to the possibility there is more information we haven't seen yet (i.e. - Ed Hillel's suggestion that Team Brady sent all the data to the NFL before destroying the phone).
 

JeffLedbetter

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The other precedent that the NFL doesn't have is making players admit to transgressions before reducing penalties on appeal ... PEDs being the most obvious example.
 

Bongorific

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lithos2003 said:
 
I get that and I'm not saying he wasn't wrong to do it.  But if you look at this through Brady's point of view, someone who's never even remotely been in trouble with the league, I could completely see him never believing it would honestly get this far.  There are plenty of innocuous reasons he might have destroyed the phone, and plenty of nefarious ones too.  But if you're innocent and viewing everything through that lens, the thought that this may look bad 4+ months later in federal court probably never crosses your mind. which is why I was curious about the "anticipating litigation" test.
I've qualified my opinions in all of the Brady threads that I don't practice in federal court much and don't practice much employment law.

There's no bright line as to when Brady and/or his representation should have known litigation was likely. When he first learned of the Colts' complaints the morning after, I believe Brady was sincere when he said on EEI teams will think of anything to complain about. It was no different to him than the Ravens complaining about legal formations. At that point, theres a fair argument to be made that he didn't need to appreciate the possibility of litigation. However, even if Brady did nothing wrong, by the time Wells was involved, it was possible a penalty could be enforced. It was probable that if a penalty was enforced, Brady would appeal.
 

LuckyBen

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garlan5 said:
I didn't bother to scan much further than the first page so some may have touched on this and i'll also add I'm not a Patriots fan.  I have however always defended TB and BB because to me they play the game right and are dedicated to winning.  Where I'm from people mostly despise Brady and really, really despise BB and love guys like Manning, etc..  I've found myself in many arguments defending Brady versus Manning for years.  I realize this is a mostly New England board but I have to say this is the one topic I cant back Brady on.  I think he's guilty and I'd be happy if he was suspended the whole year. Of course I think the same punishment should be for PED users if not  harsher.  I think its clear Brady wanted those balls air pressure lower and the only possible way he wasn't involved (in my mind) is if there were some conspiracy against him by the nfl.....and thats crazy talk in my mind.   Destroying the phone is just the icing on the cake. If he were innocent he'd clearly hand that thing over and help his case.  
So what is a proper discipline for domestic abuse and rape? We have 16+ games for steroids and possible ball deflation.
 

garlan5

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BigSoxFan said:
You might want to, like, learn the facts before posting.
what facts did I miss?  I'm on vacation and haven't been doing much reading on it other than he's claiming he destroyed the phone as a normal practice even though it was on the same day or near the same time frame they requested his phone for the investigation. 
 

garlan5

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LuckyBen said:
So what is a proper discipline for domestic abuse and rape? We have 16+ games for steroids and possible ball deflation.
to me the ball deflation is the same as PED's.  Rape and Domestic abuse is worse.  I'd be in favor of lifetime bans for those.  Some thought would be given to whether that should be on 2nd offense or 1st but that shit should be severe
 

dabombdig

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garlan5 said:
what facts did I miss?  I'm on vacation and haven't been doing much reading on it other than he's claiming he destroyed the phone as a normal practice even though it was on the same day or near the same time frame they requested his phone for the investigation. 
I think you lose all credibility when you call for a year long suspension or longer for not really deflated balls or PEDs. It's dumb.
 

Stitch01

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NFL definitely bagged the low info or low IQ fan with today's release, that's for sure.

Lol at full year suspension.
 

garlan5

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dabombdig said:
I think you lose all credibility when you call for a year long suspension or longer for not really deflated balls or PEDs. It's dumb.
Really- intentionally cheating by deflating footballs is kinda bad for the game.  I think if they had the hard evidence he did it (ie, cellphone texts, etc) then he'd be gone for the year. 
 

Padaiyappa

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GBrushTWood said:
 
When phone data is backed up, it's done externally to the physical handset. This enables restoration to any other equivalent handset. If that scenario you described occurred, he could simply restore data from a backup to any other Android/Windows/BB phone. If there was no backup, then of course, the data could be gone. But we're all speculating.
 
I haven't the slightest clue to Brady's smartphone OS preferences, or whether he backed up the data, but I'm open to the possibility there is more information we haven't seen yet (i.e. - Ed Hillel's suggestion that Team Brady sent all the data to the NFL before destroying the phone).
Just looking at my macbook, I see all my iMessages. Even ones that I deleted on my iPhone. Assuming TB12 uses Apple products since he recently bought an apple watch, maybe he though submitting messages from his mac or iPad sufficed. But the destruction of the phone near the time of his questioning with Wells is damning. I was able to justify the other inconsistencies/allegations in the Wells report and in deflate gate ( texts being taken out of context,McNally taking the balls into the bathroom since the room was crowded watching the NFC game, shaky science, potential sting by the colts, etc) but the phone destruction is hard for me to justify. Hopefully, Brady's camp can clarify this action...
 

edmunddantes

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It's an interesting thought and wish casting people are hoping for that Yee and Brady have something with the unprecedented electronic information.

Wells and Goodell always claimed only cared about the small select number of texts and individuals of deflategate. We'll trust you.

This is Brady and Yee's ham fisted too cute by far way of calling the bluff. The phone got destroyed but here are all the people he texted. Followed up by here are the texts we downloaded.

It's cute if true, and is the only thing that could make this look even a little bit good on their part.

Otherwise, it's still a completely unforced self inflicted gun shot wound to his credibility.
 

amarshal2

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garlan5 said:
what facts did I miss?  I'm on vacation and haven't been doing much reading on it other than he's claiming he destroyed the phone as a normal practice even though it was on the same day or near the same time frame they requested his phone for the investigation. 
There's no evidence of deflated footballs. The Wells report is largely believed to be a sham by all who read it. The entire proceeding has been kangaroo court.

The texts and the phone don't look good. But if you have no dead person you have no murder investigation and you certainly don't convict people because someone texted that he was a stone cold killer.
 

garlan5

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amarshal2 said:
There's no evidence of deflated footballs. The Wells report is largely believed to be a sham by all who read it. The entire proceeding has been kangaroo court.

The texts and the phone don't look good. But if you have no dead person you have no murder investigation and you certainly don't convict people because someone texted that he was a stone cold killer.
I guess my point is that, other than Patriot fans and those on this forum, most people believe the balls were deflated. Maybe I'm wrong and maybe everyone outside of this forum is wrong but it seems like Brady is lying and covered his tracks.  I just cant find a reason to believe the NFL would make this up. I'll stand by my statement that if true he deserves to sit out a full season.
 

amarshal2

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garlan5 said:
I guess my point is that, other than Patriot fans and those on this forum, don't really buy into the fact that the balls weren't deflated. Maybe I'm wrong and maybe everyone outside of this forum is wrong but it seems like Brady is lying and covered his tracks.  I just cant find a reason to believe the NFL would make this up. I'll stand by my statement that if true he deserves to sit out a full season.
Look up the science. Decide for yourself with facts and evidence instead of headlines and hunches. I don't think many have interest in wasting time trying to convince people at this stage.

If you don't want to do that, it's cool, but stop posting.
 

garlan5

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amarshal2 said:
Look up the science. Decide for yourself with facts and evidence instead of headlines and hunches. I don't think many have interest in wasting time trying to convince people at this stage.

If you don't want to do that, it's cool, but stop posting.
I"m not really trying to be "convinced" nor am I trying to "convince" anyone.  I guess I"m just trying to say I don't see any info out there that supports Brady's innocence. Why are no media outlets or reporters standing up in his defense. Everything I hear as a casual Brady fan seem so damaging to his credibility.
 
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GBrushTWood said:
.....
On the phone destruction topic, I'm surprised nobody has raised the possibility that the phone data was backed up before physically being destroyed. Isn't it possible the text message headers and details are sitting on Brady's or someone else's computer in addition to the physical phone being destroyed? This kind of backup is basic stuff on any iOS or Android phone. Isn't it just like the NFL to hone in on 1 particular detail and villainize a player without taking the entire context into consideration? Maybe the text messages can be restored with a few clicks. Maybe Brady told them "hey, in full disclosure, i got rid of the phone, but I have the data backed up." I don't particularly understand why he would do this, but it's within the realm of possibility.
 
.....
 
I am guessing that's why the Brady camp offered them electronic copies of everything the NFL asked for, the NFL said 'nah, that's not practical' and then they replied 'oh, well too bad the phone's wiped/smacked with a hammer'.  It takes about 30mins or an hour to back up a phone, MAX.  I see only a few scenarios where toasting the phone makes any sense after legal counsel.  
 
From most to least likely:
 
1) Brady zips it into a tight spiral and a million pieces on the wall in anger, possibly while talking on it about this whole mess.  
2) Brady and co back it up, wipe it and trash it because there are photos/texts of **anything they don't want to leak** on it but nothing related to the case.  NFL fumbles by asking for phone and not accepting the 'content' of the phone.  Brady and Co. believe they have them and the NFL pulls this 'Brady destroying phone PR angle'.  Brady probably shatters his new phone on the wall or floor when he hears it.
3) They microwaved the phone for kicks after they realized it incriminated them because Brady REALLY likes 12.4 psi.  
4)  They dropped it in acid because it incriminated BB or the pats.
 

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garlan5 said:
I"m not really trying to be "convinced" nor am I trying to "convince" anyone.  I guess I"m just trying to say I don't see any info out there that supports Brady's innocence. Why are no media outlets or reporters standing up in his defense. Everything I hear as a casual Brady fan seem so damaging to his credibility.
 
 
Your not going to last long here. 
 

garlan5

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Stitch01 said:
Hard to go more clown show than Rog and company on this but calling for a full year sure does it
 
I'm saying that if there were hard evidence it would be worthy of a year. Only a homer would say its a minor infraction..  cheating is a big deal
 

soxfanSJCA

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garlan5 said:
 
I'm saying that if there were hard evidence it would be worthy of a year. Only a homer would say its a minor infraction..  cheating is a big deal
 
I recommend ESPN and NFLN for you. They have comment sections full of like minded people who also have opinions, a lot of them, Some people on ESPN even "know" everything that happened because "they are not dumb". I suspect you will happily find abundant support for your opinions in those venues.  If you one day grow weary of the countless uninformed opinions flying around, and want to develop your understanding of this morbidly fascinating epic in a manner that does not involve regurgitating what you hear on ESPN and calling it an opinion, you can come here and read some seriously substantive posts from people that did not "skip to the end".
You really are on vacation, in more ways than you think.
 

tedseye

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Apr 15, 2006
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Apologies if someone else has already mentioned this and I missed it in the blizzard of posts today, but the potentially critical issue of venue (i.e. proper or better in NFL's filing in NYC or in the PA 's expected one in MN or MA) would be determined under the Labor Management Act, section 301, 29 U.S.C. 185, not under the Federal Arbitration Act, 9 U.S.C. Sec. 1-12. Courts often use the FAA to aid interpretation under Section 301 in collective bargaining disputes, but just saying. One of our full time labor lawyers might know whether venue is assessed any differently in the collective bargaining rather than the commercial arbitration context.
 

nighthob

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garlan5 said:
I'm saying that if there were hard evidence it would be worthy of a year. Only a homer would say its a minor infraction..  cheating is a big deal
It apparently isn't a big deal because near the beginning of the Wells report the rules for ball preparation are listed, and then much later the procedures the Colts use/used are detailed. Which are a violation of the rules.
 

Average Reds

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Ed Hillel said:
I still think there's something missing. Maybe Brady provided all his relevant emails and the league is just completely ignoring them, something like that. We don't have the entire story.

And I expect a story soon from Florio about Wells claiming privilege. That part is really bothersome to me. There was no transparency whatsoever.
 
In order to ensure that the media and public did not focus on the substance of the decision, the NFL primed the pump by leaking the cell phone story to Stephen A. Smith hours before they released the decision. 
 
It may very well be that the story is as bad for Brady as it looks, but I'm not going to take the NFL's headline at face value until I see how things unfold.
 

sodenj5

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Reading some of the headlines and stories this morning, and I thought this was some damning evidence:

Brady said he destroyed his phone but it was common practice for him to do so after getting a new phone. Apparently Brady had a previous device that he was willing to make available for investigation that was not destroyed. So there goes that.

On page 12 of Goodell's 20-page decision, the commissioner points out that the phone Brady used before the one in question was intact and available for a forensic expert to review. "No explanation was provided for this anomaly," Goodell wrote.
 

Laser Show

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Maybe I'm just naive, but I don't think Brady is stupid so I really think there's something more to both the above and the timing of the phone destruction.

And, btw, it still doesn't matter at all if he's guilty. I still believe this isn't something that actually affects the game much if at all. The NFL certainly didn't think so until the AFCCG.

Hope we get good news finally in the coming days.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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Aug 15, 2006
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ifmanis5 said:
ESPN.com coverage right now...
 
O'Connor: Brady to blame since he has no credible explanation.
Jackie Mac: Brady needs to move on.
Lester Munson: Brady has no shot in court.
 
Okay, then. I guess they're all impressed by the mountain of evidence presented by the NFL?
To be fair if you read the article by Jackie it isn't necessarily following the same narrative. Ian O'Connor loves writing anything that bashes the pats.

I'm beginning to think maybe Brady is actually innocent. This organization has owned up to when it screwed up before and took its medicine. I would think Kraft and Belichick would instruct Brady to take the one or two game suspension and move on if a settlement was offered.

Now this isn't about Brady anymore its the NFLPA vs the NFL in a way to gain leverage in the next CBA by removing Goodell as the judge jury and executioner in appeal hearings.