Better result than what I expected, which was bad data provided without context that "proved" that the Patriots had cheated. This just makes the league look like incompetent idiots.
#DFG: Canceling the Noise
- Thread starter nattysez
- Start date
The entire data collection effort was a transparently fraudulent PR effort by the NFL to reinforce the notion that the ball deflation investigation was about the integrity of the game rather than the paranoia of certain teams/NFL execs. But it was obvious from the beginning that there was a logical inconsistency in punishing the Pats/Brady before gathering actual evidence, and so the NFL (almost certainly guided by legal counsel) adjusted course.
The legal angle here is most important. Without any new evidence surfacing, the NFL became firmer in their assertion that the deflation actually happened and that Brady was the mastermind of the operation rather than just being "generally aware." Given this change in strategy, and on the off chance that the information was ever subject to legal discovery, it would have been untenable to collect and preserve information that almost certainly (if you believe the ideal gas law) would have directly contradicted assertions being made in court.
I do love the magnificence of Goodell re-writing history by pretending that this had been their plan all along. He's really testing the loyalty of a number of media toadies who will now have to make a similar pivot - again - or risk losing access. I mean, this is like the third or fourth time that Peter King has been hung out to dry, which is at least a small reward.
The legal angle here is most important. Without any new evidence surfacing, the NFL became firmer in their assertion that the deflation actually happened and that Brady was the mastermind of the operation rather than just being "generally aware." Given this change in strategy, and on the off chance that the information was ever subject to legal discovery, it would have been untenable to collect and preserve information that almost certainly (if you believe the ideal gas law) would have directly contradicted assertions being made in court.
I do love the magnificence of Goodell re-writing history by pretending that this had been their plan all along. He's really testing the loyalty of a number of media toadies who will now have to make a similar pivot - again - or risk losing access. I mean, this is like the third or fourth time that Peter King has been hung out to dry, which is at least a small reward.
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You are missing the elegance of Goodell's pivot: It wasn't a research study where they collected data, it was a series of spot checks that revealed no violations.
That framing is preposterously at odds with what they promised to do, but it precludes the need to keep records. Which allows them to claim that nothing was destroyed, it just never existed in the first place.
That framing is preposterously at odds with what they promised to do, but it precludes the need to keep records. Which allows them to claim that nothing was destroyed, it just never existed in the first place.
No, I caught that – there are just several tweets and references in Wetzel's piece to the league destroying or "incinerating" the evidence – and how that was the Pats last, best hope. What seems oddest about the whole thing is that the whole process is very clearly proscribed in the operation manual. Will someone have the stones to ask him about the Referees Report?
Also, King has weighed in:
Also, King has weighed in:
I hope some reporters will ask Goodell what he means by "no violations." Is he alleging that every ball was over 12.5 or has the league begun to acknowledge the Ideal Gas Law? Need to drill down here and push the dopey commish to get specific.
Peter King is, typically, blissfully obtuse at what the fuck is going on, and interprets Goodell's words in the way that makes it sound like the NFL just forgot what to check for.
King: "gosh darn it, of course nobody is gonna deflate the balls in front of an NFL rep standing right there! Jeez, now we will never know if Brady had those balls deflated!"
King: "gosh darn it, of course nobody is gonna deflate the balls in front of an NFL rep standing right there! Jeez, now we will never know if Brady had those balls deflated!"
At this point the NFL league office is essentially a criminal organization, with Goodell as its godfather.
Any chance this works to TBs benefit? Not directly, because this issue has no direct relevance to his appeal. But maybe judges hear about this stuff?
Reiss is correct that:
Goodell's answers still leave several important questions unanswered,
But, IMO, that's in large part on Rich Eisen. Anyone who has has been paying even marginal attention would have immediately realized that the correct response to this:
We're pleased that we haven't had any violations,
is, at a minimum, this:
When you say "no violations," does that mean that no footballs measured at halftime this season were below 12.5psi, regardless of the weather conditions?
Even before the disappearing data issue.
Goodell's answers still leave several important questions unanswered,
But, IMO, that's in large part on Rich Eisen. Anyone who has has been paying even marginal attention would have immediately realized that the correct response to this:
We're pleased that we haven't had any violations,
is, at a minimum, this:
When you say "no violations," does that mean that no footballs measured at halftime this season were below 12.5psi, regardless of the weather conditions?
Even before the disappearing data issue.
Since they are Windows devices, and if they are all connected to a league administered domain, they could use GPO's to lock them down very effectively. This all assume competence in league IT, and if you assume is run the same way the league is then God only knows.Which brings up another good point. The league makes a big deal about receiving texts and using cell phones on the sidelines, but they give them freaking tablets. Are they somehow locked down in terms of what online functions they can use or something? They could place bets online during the game if they wanted to
As an aside, my brother works for Brocade and they handle all the networking infrastructure in San Fran's new stadium. It's really impressive what's going on there
All the data had to be transmitted electronically, either through email or a web portal. There is no way in hell the data no longer exists. Goodell may just be dumb enough to believe the delete key wipes it away permanently.
Unfortunately he's right. Nobody outside of 10% of New England fans care.
Patriots lose picks, Brady is tarnished as a cheater while Manning* gets a push to his legacy this week, and haters get another arrow in the quiver when drunkenly arguing about the Patriots.
Yay.
State-run media. I suspect the parameters of the "interview" were well established before it even took place.
At this point "Integrity of the Game" is the equivalent of "With All Due Respect" as in, the exact opposite.
The converse is true in that they are compromising the integrity of the game by enforcing false punishments (picks) harming the on field product for a singular team in order to save face and in an attempt to leverage more power/control.
And it'll work because it's a game and only internal battles (Kraft) could combat it. There's no higher authority stepping in to get those picks back. At least the Brady punishment will not see the light of day, but that's why the draft pick penalty was so harsh. This outcome was anticipated and the interested parties needed to be satiated.
The converse is true in that they are compromising the integrity of the game by enforcing false punishments (picks) harming the on field product for a singular team in order to save face and in an attempt to leverage more power/control.
And it'll work because it's a game and only internal battles (Kraft) could combat it. There's no higher authority stepping in to get those picks back. At least the Brady punishment will not see the light of day, but that's why the draft pick penalty was so harsh. This outcome was anticipated and the interested parties needed to be satiated.
So the NFL destroyed (or is withholding) evidence that would tend to exonerate the Pats...
It's an NFL Brady violation!!
Legal puns aside, my sense is that Roger long ago won the public relations battle. fans of other teams stopped paying attention a long time ago and don't seem psrticularly interested in the work Florio, Wetzel, and others have done to start calling out the bad science and league hypocrisy.
It's an NFL Brady violation!!
Legal puns aside, my sense is that Roger long ago won the public relations battle. fans of other teams stopped paying attention a long time ago and don't seem psrticularly interested in the work Florio, Wetzel, and others have done to start calling out the bad science and league hypocrisy.
Almost certainly true. And if not, Eisen probably valued his job security more than holding up his end of the questioning without being reminded.
It would be great if a SOSH lawyer could weigh in on the chances, risks and rewards of an NFL employee leaking any measurements that were taken, to the press...
"No violations" tells any of us left who care everything we need to know (and already knew). Everyone knows that if the data had shown balls stay where inflated, then it would have been released. So, the non-response tells us exactly what we knew, and the added piece of information is that now we know the NFL knows it too. It's no longer a crazy conspiracy theory to think the NFL is simply appealing to baser instincts within the organization that had a bone to pick with Brady and the Pats, and is now forging ahead punishing a club and tarnishing the legacy of a star player to cover up those baser instincts. Yes, we all knew or at least suspected that before, but now there's pretty much no doubt. The one thing I do wonder is whether the clubs have the data. Whether there are actually other owners who know Kraft got fucked. They probably don't give a shit either.
KFP is right that we're the only ones left caring. And it's going to be doubly difficult to swallow if the second circuit reverses Berman and Brady has to sit 4 games next year for bullshit. But, to me personally, this is an important final chapter. Sports matter to people for weird reasons, and there is so much stuff built up behind why we care. Fans of other teams won't know or care (at least until it happens to their team just like we didn't really care that Bounty-gate was bullshit until it happened to us). But I know. And that's good enough to close this chapter for me.
KFP is right that we're the only ones left caring. And it's going to be doubly difficult to swallow if the second circuit reverses Berman and Brady has to sit 4 games next year for bullshit. But, to me personally, this is an important final chapter. Sports matter to people for weird reasons, and there is so much stuff built up behind why we care. Fans of other teams won't know or care (at least until it happens to their team just like we didn't really care that Bounty-gate was bullshit until it happened to us). But I know. And that's good enough to close this chapter for me.
At this point I would believe a propganda video from ISIS, narrated by Lynn Johnston, stating that 9-11 never actually happened, before I would belive a word that came out of Roger Goodell's mouth. What a fucking crock. I love watching Tom Brady play, but I can't wait until he retires so i can wipe my hands of this filthy fucking organization.
Damn straight.
Rich Eisen was employee #1 at the NFL Network back in 2003 and his podcast is owned by the NFL. I believe it's written into his contract that if he asks Roger Goodell a question that might provide insight into ... well ... anything, he will be executed.
What amazes me is that for all the criticism that Goodell received yesterday and today, no one appears to be picking up on the fact that he used an NFL-owned platform to disseminate his propaganda.
We (SOSH collectively as a board) think of this issue more thoughtfully than all others. It makes sense, because we're all lunatics, obsessed with the injustice befallen the NE Patriots and Tom Brady, plus, guys like Wet
But exponent concluded that the Ideal Gas Law couldn't explain away all of the variance between the underinflation found with the Patriots' footballs and the the expected underinflation per the IGL. There are literally dozens of third party, disinterested parties that have debunked the Wells Report and Exponent's science, but isn't this what Goodell and his fellow monkeys would say in response to that?
Of course this is what Goodell and his minions will say, but it's important to note that Exponent did not conclude what you are saying in the boded section.
Exponent concluded that if you took Walt Anderson's word as being 100% accurate about pregame pressure readings and then disregarded his recollection about which gauge he used to test the balls (and supported their contention that Anderson was confused by doctoring a photo of the two gauges) then some of the balls would fall slightly outside of the variation one would expect under the Ideal Gas Law.
As they do every single time they are hired, Exponent delivered a report that backed it's client's position. Quelle surprise.
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Once again, Bob Kraft screwed up by trusting Roger Goodell. He should have been pushing behind the scenes from week 1 to ensure that the data was being properly collected and would be available.
Alternately, Brady's legal team should have contracted with a reputable firm to measure the air pressure outside of NFL stadiums during various games of the 2015 season - definitely all NE games as well as other ones particularly in cold-weather cities.
Alternately, Brady's legal team should have contracted with a reputable firm to measure the air pressure outside of NFL stadiums during various games of the 2015 season - definitely all NE games as well as other ones particularly in cold-weather cities.
Kraft was weak, but he didn't fuck the Patriots. Goodell did. Don't divert or misplace your anger. Kraft made a mistake and gambled that he was making the best choice for his team. He got fucked for it, but that's on the NFL.
Yeah, this is where I am, too. It's pretty clear to everyone paying attention that the League would have released the data if it had looked bad for the Patriots. So the focus is again on Goodell and his cronies rather than on the Patriots supposed rule-breaking. That's a good thing.
Kraft may have screwed up to us, but I don't really think he cares at this point. Going all Scorched Earth on Goodell might put Kraft's position with the other owners in jeopardy. Kraft, no doubt, thinks he is the smartest man in the room and his goal is to make money. He feels he needs to be on all of those committees for a reason. I wish it weren't the case, but I think it is.
see the Raiders for an example of how a team is treated after going scorched earth (IE LA)
I think you may have stopped reading the King excerpt too soon (understandable given King's general track record). Even he eventually says his belief is that the NFL wasn't trying to understand what the truth was.
There is lots of detail in the procedure, including superfluous stuff like, "approximately three minutes prior to kickoff, the KBC with a designated game official will bring the back-up set of game balls to the on-field replay station..."
But the results are completely devoid of detail: "No violations". It's as if this whole thing was designed and run by Exponent.
Well, they'd be fired. There's a scintilla of a chance that an NFL employee with a conscience drops a dime because they believe in honesty and fairness. And there's a scintilla of a chance that some Pats-fan employee does it...well, actually, for the same reason but with more passion, I guess. Beyond that, good luck getting it.
A question was asked about electronic evidence of the testing. I think NFL may have anticipated that, and such records really may not exist. If they do exist, I suspect NFL has a doc retention policy which will eliminate them (to degree they can be) relatively soon, and some may already have been. And even if someone wanted to subpoena them I struggle with the legal theory that would get you there---Kraft could probably sue on an antitrust theory and get a litigation hold on everything in NFL central, but he's not doing that. Even the SoSH-famous Brady libel claim wouldn't necessarily generate a hold for those emails (after the fact, hard to construct a theory where they are probative of actual malice). Not sure who would have standing and a legal theory to get there. Others may have ideas.
Ultimately, we have the knowledge we were right all along, and pretty much every thinking writer and NFL fan agrees with that now. Those who do not see it yet will not be convinced, and we just have to accept that.
Any article written about the NFL's psi testing procedures should be entitled: "Brady exonerated.....again."
Florio gets to the key to #DFG here:
Roger & the NFL essentially framed the Pats either by ignorance or vengeance or both and it was in everyone's best interest to pile on the Pats and parrot the league in the subsequent shitstorm. Now that evidence has been collected, buried and denied it's in most of the same people's interest to go along with the cover up and to hell with the actual data or the lessons learned. As long as the Pats get their deserved comeuppance most fans, the league and the media who need the league to make money will be fine. This has always been about aligned interests and not integrity, yet it seems like only the folks who follow this thread understand that.
Just to be clear, "No Violations" to me assumes that the 2015/16 NFL agrees with Science...created Ideal Gas Law graphs relating temperature to pressure, measured footballs at a given halftime temp. and found they all fell within the predicted pressure if they had started between 12.5 and 13.5 at room temperature prior to the game. It's the only way to explain that statement (obviously the Minnesota footballs would have had to be below 12.5 unless they were over-inflated pre-game).
Thinking more about it, one way I can imagine we might get more insight in the future is a referee. They may have gotten some guidance on what PSI levels to expect and how to deal with a level under 12.5 (since we can expect by the season the league office understood the ideal gas law and by november or december it impacted balls in a measurable, material way in some stadiums). If so, the next time one is fired or there's a strike or contract dispute there's a small chance one of them drops info anonymously to a reporter.
This will change nothing about public perception, or the Pats draft pick. But those of us around this thread will appreciate it, should that happen.
This will change nothing about public perception, or the Pats draft pick. But those of us around this thread will appreciate it, should that happen.
It's not just this thread. Dan Wetzel, Sally Jenkins, Mike Reiss, Mike Florio, Tom E. Curren, Peter King (for the most part) and Michael Hurley all seem to get it. I'm probably missing a few others.
It gives me some small measure of comfort that voices inside and outside NE have cracked the code.
What should, and will never happen, here is that the NFL should rescind the penalties and drop the appeal. Short of that, the only small satisfaction I can take out of this is that there are a select number of journalists -- and none employed by the Globe -- who have seen the light and called the NFL out.
I'm not a big proponent of political grandstanding, BUT why couldn't the Congress person representing Foxborough (or any Mass or New England rep Dem or Rep-make it bipartisan) write a letter to the NFL under the general heading consttiuents services, and request that the NFL release the psi #s and referee game reports,and further clarify the findings, in order to erase the erroneous sentiment created that 1) the Patriots illegally deflated the AFCCG footballs and 2) provide relief to the millions of Patriot fans from the stigma attached to false accusations of Deflategate.
You know pull an Arlen Spector.
And make the NFL jump a little.
You know pull an Arlen Spector.
And make the NFL jump a little.
In 5 years, I look forward to angrily spending an entire weekend binging my way through "Making a Commissioner" on Netflix
Because the real numbers will never ever see the light of day. If any #'s came out they'd be falsified to fit a narrative. People would then look at those numbers, determine they're wrong and don't completely agree with the IGL, and start calling foul. The NFL would then ignore it because they can.
There is no such thing as a "gotcha" moment for an organization who doesn't care if they get gotted.
Because the real numbers will never ever see the light of day.
Its not worth it for the NFL to falsify #s, and "lie" in a larger public questioning of its results. After all its science, and science works all the time. If the #s show the IGL is largely responsible for cold weather deflation, they should let the #s say so. And if that then further casts doubt on Deflategate, then they too should admit that is a possibility they had not considered a year ago.
But if the NFL wants to blow off a Congress person's request for information, they could. But this is the body that may one day decide if Draft King etal is gambling or not, and what regulations or laws should be adhered to by those doing business with gambling enterprises that do business cross state borders.
Its not worth it for the NFL to falsify #s, and "lie" in a larger public questioning of its results. After all its science, and science works all the time. If the #s show the IGL is largely responsible for cold weather deflation, they should let the #s say so. And if that then further casts doubt on Deflategate, then they too should admit that is a possibility they had not considered a year ago.
But if the NFL wants to blow off a Congress person's request for information, they could. But this is the body that may one day decide if Draft King etal is gambling or not, and what regulations or laws should be adhered to by those doing business with gambling enterprises that do business cross state borders.