#DFG: Canceling the Noise

Is there any level of suspension that you would advise Tom to accept?


  • Total voters
    208

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
43,558
Here
I think it's quite possible that Jackson didn't notice anything at all and gave the ball to the equipment guy to keep for him. Then he "noticed something" and up the chain it went. It would be pretty fucking awesome if there's footage of this equipment guy messing with the ball. I would not at all put it past Irsay to have set this entire thing up.

What's fucked up to me is that the Colts are even allowed to make this complaint. The refs handle the balls on every play, and it should be their job to notice differences, not a team that is already in possession of one of the balls.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the players and coaches are embarrassed by this, particularly Pagano.
 

miracleofmidre

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 5, 2009
275
Brooklyn NY
I can't believe there's no columnist willing to investigate the dark side of PV=nRT, and how the Patriots have gamed the Ideal Gas Law.

Ten bucks if you asked him Kravitz would identify PV=nRT as some player's favorite new rap group.
 

ivanvamp

captain obvious
Jul 18, 2005
6,104
DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
So, two things seem to be emerging. First, this is whiner crybaby stuff from the losers. Second, they played at least half the game with everyone on notice of the complaint.
 
So in the first half, with the Patriots "cheating", New England outscored Indianapolis 17-7.
 
In the second half, with the Patriots being forced to play by the rules, New England outscored Indianapolis 28-0.
 
Um……..yeah.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 23, 2009
20,673
Maine
ivanvamp said:
 
So in the first half, with the Patriots "cheating", New England outscored Indianapolis 17-7.
 
In the second half, with the Patriots being forced to play by the rules, New England outscored Indianapolis 28-0.
 
Um……..yeah.
 
These are the same people who watched the team reel off 17 straight wins after they were "caught" videotaping Jets signals and presumably stopped doing it, yet still concluded that they couldn't win without cheating.  Logic has no place here.
 

ivanvamp

captain obvious
Jul 18, 2005
6,104
Red(s)HawksFan said:
 
These are the same people who watched the team reel off 17 straight wins after they were "caught" videotaping Jets signals and presumably stopped doing it, yet still concluded that they couldn't win without cheating.  Logic has no place here.
 
Exactly.  This stuff is absolute lunacy.
 

Soxfan in Fla

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 30, 2001
7,187
ScubaSteveAvery said:
I don't think I understand why an investigation into this would take so long? Presumably you have most, if not all, the game balls in your possession. It would take, what, a half hour to calculate the pressure in each one? I'm sure that there was a camera on or near the ball attendants the whole time and NFL owns the film so it isn't like they need to go get it from somebody. There are issues such as the balls losing pressure between the end of the game and not, but you can probably calculate a semi-accurate depressurization rate, and there are probably error bands you can create too to figure out where each ball should theoretically be by now.  
Yeah, it's not like they have to try to get the video of the sidelines from a casino or something. This "investigation" should be done by Friday at the latest IMO. The whole thing is absurd.
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
43,558
Here
miracleofmidre said:
I can't believe there's no columnist willing to investigate the dark side of PV=nRT, and how the Patriots have gamed the Ideal Gas Law.

Ten bucks if you asked him Kravitz would did identify PV=nRT as some player's favorite new rap group.
There's also the fact that 500+ pounds of pressure is contantly being dropped on it.
 

Shelterdog

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Feb 19, 2002
15,375
New York City
The chances that a half-cocked Irsay is involved in this becoming public are pretty high.

The league must be pissed. Complaints like this are made to the league after every game, but they don't become public and it's good that minor rule violations are kept quiet because of the shitstorms that are created.  
 

H78

Fists of Millennial Fury!
SoSH Member
Jul 22, 2009
4,613
DrewDawg said:
 
The weather was different last week, so there wasn't reason to deflate.
 
You might want to reread my whole post.
 

Stitch01

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
18,155
Boston
Aaron Rodgers was on TV two weeks ago talking about how he overinflated balls and hoped the refs didn't notice.  Sometimes they catch it, sometimes they don't, he said, everyone in the interview had a good laugh. 
 

twibnotes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
20,232
Shelterdog said:
The league must be pissed. Complaints like this are made to the league after every game, but they don't become public and it's good that minor rule violations are kept quiet because of the shitstorms that are created.  
This is a great point. Something tells me if you dig a couple feet in the NFL, there are a lot of bodies. Common sense says every team has a healthy amount of PED use, for instance.
 

H78

Fists of Millennial Fury!
SoSH Member
Jul 22, 2009
4,613
One thing to note - if weather conditions could have affected the PSI in the balls, all the NFL would have to do is also take some of the Colts' footballs and compare the PSI in those to the ones that the Patriots had. Both - ahem - sets of balls were used in the same game, so their PSI should be relatively close.
 
Isn't that all that needs to be done here? If the Colts are at 12.60 PSI, and the Patriots are at 12.40 PSI, then this is a non-story because the difference is negligible. But if the Colts are at 12.60 PSI and the Patriots are at 10.60 PSI, you have your evidence.
 
I can't believe we're even talking about this right now.
 

Van Everyman

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2009
26,991
Newton
Shelterdog said:
The chances that a half-cocked Irsay is involved in this becoming public are pretty high.
The league must be pissed. Complaints like this are made to the league after every game, but they don't become public and it's good that minor rule violations are kept quiet because of the shitstorms that are created.  
Assuming they haven't been warned about this before (which, after all, is what got them in trouble in '07), the longer this goes the more irresponsible the "including the loss of draft picks" aspect of Kravitz's initial report seems.
 

BigJimEd

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 4, 2002
4,432
ivanvamp said:
Well they need to interview all kinds of people, blah blah blah.
yeah. They'll need to talk to the officials who are back at their real job so who knows when they might be available.


I probably shouldn't be but I'm surprised this story has a shelf life of even a day. I find it pretty amusing and annoying at the same time.
 

Trlicek's Whip

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 8, 2009
5,607
New York City
DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
So, two things seem to be emerging. First, this is whiner crybaby stuff from the losers. Second, they played at least half the game with everyone on notice of the complaint.
 
Fifteen years ago when the Pats won their first BB/Brady title I remember the 2001 AFC Conference Championship. Looking at the write-ups now you'd be reminded how bad Kordell Stewart was that day (3 INT), and how great the Pats were on special teams (blocked FB, Troy Brown punt return TD, Vinatieri's leg), and that Bledsoe saved their bacon with a TD drive after Brady left with an injury.
 
I couldn't find anything online (at work so didn't really have time to dig), but I do remember the post-game comments from Steelers players following the loss. They were salty post-game with overarching narrative that "the better team didn't win today." That was a popular refrain that season, because of how the Steelers got beat (and surprised) by the Pats. 
 
And this was one week after the AFC Divisional Snow Bowl game against Oakland (tuck rule), and similar stunned PTSD reactions from Raiders players.
 
How most teams lost to the Pats in 2001 seemed shocking to the losing teams all season long. That first Pats championship under Belichick was improbable at the time and storybook and they had to fight so hard to win their games, and they were always close games, and we as a fanbase were in undiscovered countries and climbing to higher and higher heights we'd never seen. Every game amounted to a staring contest where one team blinked first and lost. Every game was like Joey Knish in Rounders: the Pats were grinders, always in it somehow, always lurking, hanging around until at the end of the day they somehow had the whole pot and the other teams had their "Mike McD losing to Teddy KGB" face. 
 
So of course if you lost and it wasn't readily apparent why, you'd plead "tuck rule." That hasn't changed, only the excuses for losing have (Spygate, "deception," underinflated footballs).
 
It's easy to see the origin story of the "Cheatriots" because games like this year's victories over the Ravens and Colts are following that same narrative from 15 years ago, only now one who hates the Patriots has seen 15 solid years of "this shit" stacked mile high and can't wrap their minds around their sustained success over that long period of time nor attribute it to anything other than magic or blind luck. And it's recency bias since no other NFL team has seen this run of success. Since 2001, the New England Patriots have gone to the Super Bowl over 40% of the time. Of *course* these same haters discount those same magic/luck elements in years the Pats fail to win or advance such as the Giants losses in the SB's, or earlier exits in the playoffs to IND etc. 
 
And in threads like this and the Ravens and the countless other games where there's scandals and anti-Pat sentiment, the media knows how to tell that story. It's well-oiled, well-fed Mad Lib for the mainstream media after 15 years of cultivation. 
 

loshjott

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2004
14,943
Silver Spring, MD
I halfway hope, for purely comic relief, Brady gets behind a podium and goes the full Bevis on this one.
 
"Listen, if someone had been deflating my balls before the game, I'd know about it. Nobody touches my balls before the game but me.  We have team employees whose job it is to massage my balls, but I don't let them get near them before the game.  It's just something I like to do myself.  We QBs are funny that way - nobody knows our balls like we do. 
 
And if NBC had any sense of humor they'd bring in Alec Baldwin as Pete Schweddy to cover this story, especially because this is coming.
 

doc

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
4,474
H78 said:
One thing to note - if weather conditions could have affected the PSI in the balls, all the NFL would have to do is also take some of the Colts' footballs and compare the PSI in those to the ones that the Patriots had. Both - ahem - sets of balls were used in the same game, so their PSI should be relatively close.
 
Isn't that all that needs to be done here? If the Colts are at 12.60 PSI, and the Patriots are at 12.40 PSI, then this is a non-story because the difference is negligible. But if the Colts are at 12.60 PSI and the Patriots are at 10.60 PSI, you have your evidence.
 
I can't believe we're even talking about this right now.
Well it would depend on the starting psi, if the Colts balls started at 13.4 psi and the Pats at 12.5 psi then that's not so much of a problem.
 

Stitch01

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
18,155
Boston
Van Everyman said:
Assuming they haven't been warned about this before (which, after all, is what got them in trouble in '07), the longer this goes the more irresponsible the "including the loss of draft picks" aspect of Kravitz's initial report seems.
That's really the only part I have a problem with Kravitz about.  Whether he's just throwing up a Spygate dogwhistle or listening to his coked up source ramble idiotically between DUIs Im not sure, but there's pretty much no basis for that.
 

BroodsSexton

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 4, 2006
12,630
guam
jsinger121 said:
It drives me nuts when people don't approporiately follow the rule that a collective noun ending in "s" should get a full "'s" to show possessive. The New England Patriots is a team name. The possessive should be Patriots's.
 

mascho

Kane is Able
SoSH Member
Nov 30, 2007
14,952
Silver Spring, Maryland
BroodsSexton said:
It drives me nuts when people don't approporiately follow the rule that a collective noun ending in "s" should get a full "'s" to show possessive. The New England Patriots is a team name. The possessive should be Patriots's.
Somewhere Rev is nodding...
 

Leather

given himself a skunk spot
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
28,451
Stitch01 said:
Aaron Rodgers was on TV two weeks ago talking about how he overinflated balls and hoped the refs didn't notice.  Sometimes they catch it, sometimes they don't, he said, everyone in the interview had a good laugh. 
 
And yet, "Spygate" was about a violation that other teams routinely committed.  In the end, it didn't matter.  
 
Although, unlike Spygate, there's no "Comissioner's Memo" that prefaced any of this, so I would guess the absolute worst that would come of it (presuming no deliberate deflation directed from up high) would be a message that no violation was committed, and perhaps a re-stating of the rules about pressure and a new directive for refs to check balls at halftime or something.
 

Leather

given himself a skunk spot
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
28,451
BigJimEd said:
yeah. They'll need to talk to the officials who are back at their real job so who knows when they might be available.


I probably shouldn't be but I'm surprised this story has a shelf life of even a day. I find it pretty amusing and annoying at the same time.
 
I just really wish someone would ask Blandino or someone else in the league whether or not balls are taken out of games frequently or not.
 
Because there is still no evidence (and now even the "X claimed it was soft" quotes are conflicted) that anything unusual happened.  Like, at all.   This is literally the same thing as a baseball ump taking a ball out of play because of a scuff, and the losing team claiming that said scuff was really a deliberate manipulation by the other team's pitcher.  It's insane. 
 

ivanvamp

captain obvious
Jul 18, 2005
6,104
drleather2001 said:
 
I just really wish someone would ask Blandino or someone else in the league whether or not balls are taken out of games frequently or not.
 
Because there is still no evidence (and now even the "X claimed it was soft" quotes are conflicted) that anything unusual happened.  Like, at all.   This is literally the same thing as a baseball ump taking a ball out of play because of a scuff, and the losing team claiming that said scuff was really a deliberate manipulation by the other team's pitcher.  It's insane. 
 
Exactly.  The ball in question was removed, the game went on, and the Patriots proceeded to score touchdowns on four straight possessions.
 
IT IS CERTIFIABLY INSANE.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
53,837
Mooch said:
Jim Daopoulous (@refereejimd) on Twitter:
 
 
 
Probably with a statement like, "None of the balls tested from the game were outside the typical variations of balls used in these types of weather conditions."
 
 

8slim

has trust issues
SoSH Member
Nov 6, 2001
24,829
Unreal America
Stitch01 said:
Aaron Rodgers was on TV two weeks ago talking about how he overinflated balls and hoped the refs didn't notice.  Sometimes they catch it, sometimes they don't, he said, everyone in the interview had a good laugh. 
I won't speak for other Pats fans, but this is exactly why this nonsense pisses me off more than it should. Where were the back page headlines about the Packers cheating?

All of this comes from the damn "Spygate" affair which wasn't even spying! Hell, it's likely what the Pats were doing would've been considered totally fine if BB had just told the camera operator to get off the sideline and go upstairs to a box.
 

loshjott

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2004
14,943
Silver Spring, MD
A big thing about this to me is how much BB and the Pats apparently got into the heads of the Colts. I just can't imagine a Pats player complaining about a deflated ball in the middle of a playoff game.
 
Unfortunately, Pete Carroll and the Seahawks appear to be cut from similar cloth as the Pats and I can't see them getting wound up about something like this.
 

Leather

given himself a skunk spot
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
28,451
8slim said:
I won't speak for other Pats fans, but this is exactly why this nonsense pisses me off more than it should. Where were the back page headlines about the Packers cheating?

All of this comes from the damn "Spygate" affair which wasn't even spying! Hell, it's likely what the Pats were doing would've been considered totally fine if BB had just told the camera operator to get off the sideline and go upstairs to a box.
 
 
Right.  And idiots like Francessa pump the narrative, so other teams take advantage by making baseless and vague accusations of "bending the rules" or "shady tactics", and that feeds the media beast, who say "Well, where there's smoke, there's fire!" even though there is never anything other than smoke.
 
It's a vicious cycle.  
 

Joshv02

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
1,633
Brookline
drleather2001 said:
 
Where do you see that?  It's not on his account.
Its a conversation tweet; so if you are looking via web, click "tweets and replies" on his profile.  
Here it is. https://twitter.com/RefereeJimD/status/557398808301035521  (There are others along the same line if you look.)
 

JohnnyK

Member
SoSH Member
May 8, 2007
1,941
Wolfern, Austria
Stitch01 said:
Aaron Rodgers was on TV two weeks ago talking about how he overinflated balls and hoped the refs didn't notice.  Sometimes they catch it, sometimes they don't, he said, everyone in the interview had a good laugh. 
Do you have a source for that? Google only finds other threads about the Pats where this is mentioned but not an original quote or video.
 

Mr. Littlejeans

New Member
Jul 18, 2005
42
BroodsSexton said:
It drives me nuts when people don't approporiately follow the rule that a collective noun ending in "s" should get a full "'s" to show possessive. The New England Patriots is a team name. The possessive should be Patriots's.
This is an interesting one.  I'm not sure that you use the "s-apostrophe-s" rule for PROPER collective nouns ending in s.  On this point, I'm always reminded of a 2007 New Yorker article about football titled "The Unbeautiful Game."  When writing about the author Michael Lewis, the article reads: "But where, for this football-loving reader, Lewis’s baseball book was enlivening and cheering..."  However, when discussing the Ravens, we have: "Matt Cavanaugh, who, we know from almost the first page, is going to be fired at the end of the season for failing to do enough for the Ravens’ offense..."
 
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/01/08/the-unbeautiful-game
 

Devizier

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 3, 2000
19,461
Somewhere
JohnnyK said:
Do you have a source for that? Google only finds other threads about the Pats where this is mentioned but not an original quote or video.
 
Supposedly the announcers mentioned that during the broadcast of the Patriots-Packers game. 
 
tenuous source: Reddit
 
Also, this mention from a Packers fan board:
 
 
 
There was a report during the Atl game on the footballs, that most QBs like them a little under inflated so they can squeeze them and dig their fingers into the ball for grip. But Rodgers prefers the balls if anything over inflated and try to get the game balls as full as they can get by with. I was thinking at the time. Thank you for letting every other team know how Rodgers prefers his footballs. 

While I doubt that a change in pressure would have as much impact to cause the problems of Sunday. I wonder if teams are making sure that the balls are not over inflated. And if they could get them on the low side, we know the colder air causes balls to lose a little pressure anyway.
 
Honestly, this is much ado about nothing, but I love it. Gives me a chance to troll some butthurt non-Patriots non-Seahawks fans, which is a large swath of idiocracy.
 

MarcSullivaFan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 21, 2005
3,412
Hoo-hoo-hoo hoosier land.
Mr. Littlejeans said:
This is an interesting one.  I'm not sure that you use the "s-apostrophe-s" rule for PROPER collective nouns ending in s.  On this point, I'm always reminded of a 2007 New Yorker article about football titled "The Unbeautiful Game."  When writing about the author Michael Lewis, the article reads: "But where, for this football-loving reader, Lewiss baseball book was enlivening and cheering..."  However, when discussing the Ravens, we have: "Matt Cavanaugh, who, we know from almost the first page, is going to be fired at the end of the season for failing to do enough for the Ravens offense..."
 
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007/01/08/the-unbeautiful-game
Yeah, Chicago Manual says no additional "s." See Par. 7.18 for examples.
 

CoffeeNerdness

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 6, 2012
8,711
loshjott said:
A big thing about this to me is how much BB and the Pats apparently got into the heads of the Colts. I just can't imagine a Pats player complaining about a deflated ball in the middle of a playoff game.
 
Down by 10 with their season on the line they were making calls about the ball pressure.  It's even better than the "better team lost today" quotes of old.
 

Norm loves Vera

Joe wants Trump to burn
SoSH Member
Dec 25, 2003
5,369
Peace Dale, RI

Shelterdog

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Feb 19, 2002
15,375
New York City
MarcSullivaFan said:
Yeah, Chicago Manual says no additional "s." See Par. 7.18 for examples.
 
As does Garner's Modern American Usage.  If anything it's a disputed enough point that basement-dwellers' panties shouldn't get bunched over this.
 

americantrotter

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2005
495
Portland
Total fanboy reaction and I know they would never do it, but I'd love to see them refuse to leave their locker room at pre-game time and screw up the TV schedule until they can get an apology or statement.
 
I already know its ridiculous, but the butthurt the league and NBC would feel would be hilarious.
 

Boston Brawler

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 17, 2011
9,757
Stitch01 said:
Aaron Rodgers was on TV two weeks ago talking about how he overinflated balls and hoped the refs didn't notice.  Sometimes they catch it, sometimes they don't, he said, everyone in the interview had a good laugh. 
Is there footage of this online anywhere?
 

Leather

given himself a skunk spot
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
28,451
norm from cheers said:
I happened to catch this interview on D & C with Michael Rosenberg who wrote SI piece mentioning Patriots sending towel boys to spy on opposing teams in the locker room.  He has no credible source.. it's embarrassing these "reporters" can report unsubstantiated gossip or rumor as fact:
http://media.weei.com/a/101075553/michael-rosenberg-of-si-discussed-his-allegations-against-bill-belichick-1-20-15.htm
 
Again, this doesn't make any sense.
 
Zero.  
 
What, the Patriots have towel boys who are also experts at deciphering lingo and play charts and they send them to the opposing locker room to just hang out and gather information, and such access is not only permitted by league rules (which I kind of doubt) but accepted by the opposing team (which I also doubt)? 
 
If the Patriots were hell bent on spying, they'd simply fucking install cameras in the locker room.  But that could be disproved; the stupid towel boy shit can't be disproven, so let's go with that.