Yaz, the balls don't go back to the teams before the game. The balls go in for testing then head straight to the ball boys before the game.
#DFG: Canceling the Noise
- Thread starter nattysez
- Start date
The Seahawks entire secondary play is based off the idea the refs won't call pi every play. What are you talking about?twibnotes said:
RedOctober3829 said:
I got that from Mort:
http://espn.go.com/boston/story/_/id/12202450/nfl-says-new-england-patriots-had-inflated-footballs-afc-championship-game
E5 Yaz said:
Oh, pu-lease. I swear to god the NFL has brainwashed a large portion of its fans into thinking the sport is some sort of holy bastion of integrity.
This is the kind of nonsense a memo should be sent out over, to all teams, reiterating the proper PSI guidelines. And if the NFL had its shit together it would have buried this days ago. Instead we have catnip for sports media who think they're actual journalists and can prove it over something this inane.
riboflav said:
I was just going to post this ...if the league can wrap up the investigation in short order and they find that the team deliberately deflated footballs to gain a competitive advantage there will be ramifications ...and I believe BB will be suspended for the SB and perhaps for a portion or all of next year....think about this ....can you imagine Goodell presenting BB and Kraft the SB trophy after they knowingly cheated??? Not gonna happen...
They're both breaking the rules. Spare me the sanctimony. And players most certainly break the in-game rules intentionally from time to time. It's better to get flagged for PI and put the ball on the 1 than it is to give up a gimme touchdown, for example.twibnotes said:
Some disparate thoughts:
Part of the meta blame lies with the League in relying on people employed by home teams to safeguard and dispense the balls during games. Once they've been scraped and set to the QB's liking, league officials should be in charge of them. Maybe they can make a new referee position where a guy on each sideline has something like those new Surface docks/caddies where the balls are stored.
Someone else mentioned it, but how embarrassing is it that a LB who hardly touches the ball noticed it when people who handle the balls between every play didn't? It calls into play their competence and if they did the pre-game checks at all. If the league is distraught, it should be due to that.
I'm pissed that this has become a thing simply because the Patriots are involved. You can bet that other QB's not named Aaron Rodgers are doing it, too. Indeed, given Rodgers' comments, it seems like a rule that is likely violated regularly, but because the actual competitive advantage it gives is negligible, the usual response is to simply switch to compliant balls. If the discrepancy is even noticed by the league's crack teams of super observant referees, that is.
I'm in the camp where they likely tried to cheat, but the rule is moronic. In a pass happy league that does everything it can to guarantee that QB's can score points every game, why is ball inflation even an issue?
Part of the meta blame lies with the League in relying on people employed by home teams to safeguard and dispense the balls during games. Once they've been scraped and set to the QB's liking, league officials should be in charge of them. Maybe they can make a new referee position where a guy on each sideline has something like those new Surface docks/caddies where the balls are stored.
Someone else mentioned it, but how embarrassing is it that a LB who hardly touches the ball noticed it when people who handle the balls between every play didn't? It calls into play their competence and if they did the pre-game checks at all. If the league is distraught, it should be due to that.
I'm pissed that this has become a thing simply because the Patriots are involved. You can bet that other QB's not named Aaron Rodgers are doing it, too. Indeed, given Rodgers' comments, it seems like a rule that is likely violated regularly, but because the actual competitive advantage it gives is negligible, the usual response is to simply switch to compliant balls. If the discrepancy is even noticed by the league's crack teams of super observant referees, that is.
I'm in the camp where they likely tried to cheat, but the rule is moronic. In a pass happy league that does everything it can to guarantee that QB's can score points every game, why is ball inflation even an issue?
wiffleballhero said:
And since they're not required to test the balls, they probably give them all the "feel" test and declare them acceptable. Very possible to pass with 10.5-11 PSI inflation versus 12.5. As others have said, little difference in play/feel in these balls. The real effect on play is miniscule.
But the transgression is real and punishment must be applied. The significance of the offense is represented by the specified punishment (a fine of $25,000 and unnamed other measures). Seems like a misdemeanor to me.
It is funny that the obvious way the story could both be contained and explained is that it has nothing to do with Belichick but it is all on Brady. Brady, not being one to care about PSI but one to be really particular about the feel of the ball, is the mastermind of the grand plot.
1 game suspension!
1 game suspension!
P'tucket said:
Absolutely not. Kraft is a savvy businessman but he doesn't care about what Spygate means to the "brand". If he did, he'd have a PR firm seeding stories pointing out the problem was only taping from the wrong location. He'd have them amplifying the quotes from guys like Jimmy Johnson that it gave no competitive advantage. He'd be astroturfing comments sections saying these things. He'd be buying ads at the bottom of web pages like the "Exxon: oil is good" stories. And he'd be regularly feeding quotes to journalists giving the Pats side of the story.
He has done none of those things. He either doesn't care, or he knows nothing about PR and/or doesn't have good PR representation.
'Spygate' is 98% PR-manufactured, and Kraft has let that happen without challenge.
I just don't care. About the taping, or about the balls. Just win in two weeks.
Welp I messed up there. Regardless, you tend to follow people around when you quote them and they quote you back, so yeah.E5 Yaz said:
genoasalami said:
What's going to be awesome is when BB is suspended, and then uses a radio transmission to call the game anyways to the sideline. Oh wait.
Also wondering how atypical it is that referees would need to reinflate the balls. I'm guessing it would be infrequent, but I don't have context.
That's a dumb analogy bc PI isn't binary. If the pats know that there is an acceptable psi range and they knowingly don't adhere to it, that's blatant cheating. When browner plays a guy aggressively, he's trying to walk the line bw PI and non PI.Silverdude2167 said:
Comparing flagged penalties and planning to skirt the rules is ridiculous.
Mind you, I think this whole thing is overblown (under blown?), but stop with the yellow flag bullshit.
twibnotes said:
What? Did you watch the three pass plays in the endzone at the end of the 2nd half in the Colts game? Of course teams intentionally try to pass interfere if they can get away with it, or if the consequences (half the distance to the goal with only a few seconds left) don't matter.
Nevermind I'm actually nervous about this. Nervous that Goodell goes "hmmm Belichick Super Bowl suspension sounds right"
He's wrong. They never go back to the teams before the game. What would the point of testing them if the teams get them back and could deflate them before the game?E5 Yaz said:
Here's the rule
https://twitter.com/markdanielspj/status/557767682830123008
https://twitter.com/markdanielspj/status/557767682830123008
link to tweet
When they should be spending all their time trying to figure out how to beat Seattle. This has to be a significant distraction for the team.DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
I think the only chance you see this is if somehow it can be determined that Belichick lied or otherwise hampered the investigation. Or had someone go and tamper with the balls after the referee's inspection. So far, we're not there yet.genoasalami said:
I won't defend them if they did this intentionally, but a few things stick out after Mort's report.
I thought in poor weather, teams submitted 24 balls each? What about the other 12? Additionally, why deflate 11 of 12? If you are going to intentionally cheat, wouldn't you just deflate them all, since you don't know, at any given time, which ball you are going to receive?
This still doesn't' answer why each ball wasn't checked by the refs and properly inflated before game time? As well as the psi of the Colts balls, which would be a perfect control group here.
I thought in poor weather, teams submitted 24 balls each? What about the other 12? Additionally, why deflate 11 of 12? If you are going to intentionally cheat, wouldn't you just deflate them all, since you don't know, at any given time, which ball you are going to receive?
This still doesn't' answer why each ball wasn't checked by the refs and properly inflated before game time? As well as the psi of the Colts balls, which would be a perfect control group here.
There is no chance that happens.genoasalami said:
They aren't going to taint the Super Bowl by having one of the coaches spend the week prior going to appeal hearings and other such nonsense while the team wonders who is coaching the game. Not to mention what an epic media disaster that would become.
I could see draft picks and/or a suspension for a game or two next year in the worst case scenario. And even that is a lot for breaking an immaterial and unenforced rule.
There's some poor guy who has been delegated to respond to the league on these issues, and cooperate with the investigation, without interfering in SB preparations. lol. Probably a lawyer.
Conversation overheard from Kraft to Roger: "hey Roger, so where did you bury the Ray Rice tape?"genoasalami said:
Peak Oil Can Boyd said:
Two things. Your screen-name is the balls, under-inflated or otherwise. And your take seems the most logical. I feel bad for everyone else here who is all distraught over this. I root for a team that routinely does what it takes to win and their detractors were going to feel that the Patriots cheated regardless of whether this came up or not. And you know what? I will take the super-cheaty New England Patriots over the honest, sad sack fuckers that we had to watch in the late 80s and early 90s every day and six times on Superbowl Sunday.
Comfortably Lomb said:
Y'know, I actually agree with this, even though it was my post that led to the reaction.
But the problem is, it may not matter by game time that the league doesn't have its shit together. It's easier for the league to dump this onto the Patriots than it is to take responsibility
The rule at NFL.com reads "The home club shall have 36 balls for outdoor games and 24 for indoor games available for testing with a pressure gauge by the referee two hours prior to the starting time of the game to meet with League requirements."
36 > 24 > 12, so I'm confused as to how it gets down to 12.
36 > 24 > 12, so I'm confused as to how it gets down to 12.
Also, it kind of sucks that this is what the run up to the game is about, and not about the skill of the players on the field. Oh well. Most people don't actually want to discuss the intricacies of foreign policy, either.
Each team provides 12; home team provides 12 backup balls as well. Road team can provide another 12 backup balls in the event of an outdoor game.Harry Hooper said:
They're in the middle of an NFL investigation which they have to respond to. How could it not be a distraction?wiffleballhero said:
lexrageorge said:
The coach would be the fall guy ...as I said...if the league determines that someone deliberately tampered with the balls for a competitive edge then it is not going to be the ball boy..or the equipment guy who is taking the hit....it will be the coach...there is no way that Goodell is presenting BB and Kraft a SuperBowl trophy two weeks after the Pats knowingly tampered with game balls...no way...the coach will take the hit ...this will not be ignored until after the season.
BroodsSexton said:
Of course the implication is that the balls are to be tested by the officials. This action is referenced 3 different times in the rule. There is no doubt that the third reference calls for the balls to be tested. Interpreting the other phrasings differently is silly. The officials are there to make sure the game is played within the correct boundaries.
"make 12 primary balls available for testing by the Referee"
"make 12 backup balls available for testing"
"may bring 12 backup balls to be tested"
Captaincoop said:
I pretty sure I heard Michael Holley say on WEEI today that BB (and others?) had to meet with the NFL (regarding the Rams walkthrough story) for 4-5 hours right before the first Super Bowl vs. the Giants.