#DFG: Canceling the Noise

Is there any level of suspension that you would advise Tom to accept?


  • Total voters
    208

LoneWarrior1

Member
SoSH Member
FL4WL3SS said:
So wait, you mean to tell me that AFTER the balls were re-inflated is when the Patriots went on a 28-0 run? Ain't that some shit?
 
Tom, you've been doing it wrong.
 
Thinking back and looking at the score, I'm wondering if the Pats went into F-U mode in the second half. I'm thinking back to the 4th & 4 from Indy's 34 to begin the 4th where the Pats went for it rather than kicking the FG. I know the Patriots received a letter on Monday re: inflation levels, but is it possible that the team knew about the claim at the half?
 

kartvelo

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 12, 2003
10,461
At home
It would appear at this point that there are two camps: coaches and players, who think this whole thing is a joke; and mediots who want clicks and eyeballs.
 

PeaceSignMoose

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 13, 2006
1,745
Boston
Rudy Pemberton said:
In the event of a suspension, who would coach the team? Do folks think this was all Belichick's doing, and that McDaniels, for example, was unaware?
 
I would think that McDaniels would be the head coach assuming Belichick gets suspended for this (which is a pretty big assumption).
 
Daboll steps in as OC, rest of the staff remains the same(ish) and the succession plan is unfortunately put into action earlier than we wanted.
 

Return of the Dewey

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 17, 2001
3,108
Pants Party
Ed Hillel said:
 
This is exactly right. I'm with Shelter in that I think Shock and Awe is coming from Goodell, and a lot of it is his fault for allowing teams and employees to leak this information to the press the way he has. The worst part is that he'll fine the Browns quietly for their scandal in a month or two, since nobody gives a shit because the Browns suck. I think the only thing that saves the Pats here is if other coaches/players speak up, and quickly.
 
Jackie MacMullen is in favor of shock and awe.
 

reggiecleveland

sublime
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Mar 5, 2004
27,957
Saskatoon Canada
soxfanSJCA said:
The only logical explanation is that Chewbacca deflated the balls, after all, why else would he live on Endor? he is from Kashyyykk!!!
 
"Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!"
 
The economy in Kashyyyk has sucked for years. You can't expect a guy with Chewie's income to live with that oppressive tax structure. Plus on Endor he is the exotic giant, while back home he just another 7 footer.
 
Apr 7, 2006
2,505
Pats going for it on 4th in that part of the field is SOP for the NEP. Also, I think they would've handled things better in the days after the game had they been that aware of a possible controversy.

Edit: forgot half my point.
 

Dogman

Yukon Cornelius
Moderator
SoSH Member
Mar 19, 2004
15,180
Missoula, MT
ifmanis5 said:
 
This is going to spin in many different directions...
 
 


Ex-NFL quarterback admits to paying $7,500 to "get the balls right” before Super Bowl XXXVII. (@CBSNews)
— Breaking News Feed (@PzFeed) January 21, 2015
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 


 
 
This has been posted no less than 5 times in this thread already.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
53,841
I still need someone to explain how and when the Pats deflated the balls on the sideline DURING the game. Presumably this was being done by a ballboy who also had to keep ferrying in dry footballs to the officials and was 100% cognizant of thousands of cameras around him.
 

Mystic Merlin

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 21, 2007
46,769
Hartford, CT
Rudy Pemberton said:
So, they really only started to kick the Colts ass because they were called out on deflating balls? That motivated the team? Seems hard to believe.
Yeah, for instance Devin McCourty seemed utterly clueless when Curran asked him about it on CSN.

This is something that probably doesn't even occur to players as an issue.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,096
Ed Hillel said:
 
This is exactly right. I'm with Shelter in that I think Shock and Awe is coming from Goodell, and a lot of it is his fault for allowing teams and employees to leak this information to the press the way he has. The worst part is that he'll fine the Browns quietly for their scandal in a month or two, since nobody gives a shit because the Browns suck. I think the only thing that saves the Pats here is if other coaches/players speak up, and quickly.
So exactly which clientele does Goodell satisfy by coming down on the Pats with the greatest punishment in the history of the league?  
 
Advertisers?  They don't seem to care.  Fans?  Most think it's amusing.  TV networks?  I doubt this "scandal" will impact the SB TV ratings in any way.  Opposing coaches and players?  Most former players seem to think this is no big deal.  Congress?  There's no Senator from Comcast making noise this time around. True Belicheat haters?  Why would Goodell care?  
 
Other owners?  Obviously important, but likely satisfied with the forfeit of a draft pick and some fines, depending on what's found to have happened.  
 
Media?  They got their click-bait to keep them fed until game time. 
 

wilked

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 17, 2005
4,044
For those thinking a ball boy could possibly deflate 11 balls with a handheld needle, such that the resulting pressures were all within 1 psi of each other...  pass me some of whatever you are smoking.  If you truly believe the league-employed ball boys did this by hand, the resulting pressures would have been all over the place.  No way to do it repeatedly without a pressure gauge, and no way to do it with a pressure gauge on the sidelines without being caught.
 
If the Patriots broke the rules, it was done before the game and done systematically.  Maybe it doesn't explain the 11 of 12 thing, but to me that is a minor point
 

The Talented Allen Ripley

holden
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Oct 2, 2003
12,723
MetroWest, MA
jasail said:
I've been partially following this story since Monday, and have fallen out of the loop a bit today. I'm curious if any of the following questions have been answered:
 
1) Did the refs check the balls prior to the game for proper inflation? 
2) Did the refs respond to Indy's comments and check the balls for proper inflation at half time? If so, were they re-inflated to the appropriate specs?
3) Were the balls then rechecked after the game?
4) Were the Colts balls ever rechecked as a baseline for game/environment related deflation?
 
You suck.
 

simplyeric

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 14, 2006
14,037
Richmond, VA
wiffleballhero said:
This is actually good news. We now have an exact timeline, from 6:45 until the half. There must be overlapping video of the bags of balls at all times in this window. 
 
Watch it. Tell us what you see. End the story.
 
That's plenty of time for any temperature effect to fully manifest, I think.  (not honesly familiar with the specific conductance and radiation characteristics of footballs, beyond "not a lot of insulation, and not a lot of thermal mass")
 

GregHarris

beware my sexy helmet/overall ensemble
SoSH Member
Jun 5, 2008
3,460
The hot air inflation theory is interesting.  It would explain a few things, and would result in the air pressure lowering as the game progresses.  Then again it could just be ... wait for it... hot air.
 

LoneWarrior1

Member
SoSH Member
Rudy Pemberton said:
So, they really only started to kick the Colts ass because they were called out on deflating balls? That motivated the team? Seems hard to believe.
 
No. I think they were plenty motivated coming in. I'm curious if they knew. The Solder play came on a 3rd & 1 from the 16 and then the Pats went for it on 4th & 4 when already up 4 scores. Both plays could have alternate explanations, but I'm wondering if the Pats coaching staff knew at the half and if it had any impact on the play calling.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
37,057
Hingham, MA
Al Zarilla said:
She quotes Jerry Rice first, accused wife beater back in the 80s, which allegation was somehow swept under the rug very, very well.
 
Jerry Rice, who has no axe to grind despite playing in the Snow Bowl. Cuz none of those Raiders have hard feelings.
 

fairlee76

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 9, 2005
3,631
jp
Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt said:
But didn't one of the more recent reports say the balls were checked again five minutes before the game? Or am I confusing things?
I read that as well.  But that corroborates his point, right?  About this having to be done on the sideline?  I agree that no way does a ballboy deflating balls freehand result in all balls being close to the same PSI.
 

pappymojo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 28, 2010
6,667
Honest question, depending on where they tested the balls at the half, did they retest the balls again after the second half and was there any further discrepancy?  Because, you know, that might tell us something.
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
43,559
Here
lexrageorge said:
So exactly which clientele does Goodell satisfy by coming down on the Pats with the greatest punishment in the history of the league?  
 
Advertisers?  They don't seem to care.  Fans?  Most think it's amusing.  TV networks?  I doubt this "scandal" will impact the SB TV ratings in any way.  Opposing coaches and players?  Most former players seem to think this is no big deal.  Congress?  There's no Senator from Comcast making noise this time around. True Belicheat haters?  Why would Goodell care?  
 
Other owners?  Obviously important, but likely satisfied with the forfeit of a draft pick and some fines, depending on what's found to have happened.  
 
Media?  They got their click-bait to keep them fed until game time. 
 
He will do it because of the public perception that it needs to be done, which is derived partially from the way he's handled the whole affair.
 
Mark Schofield said:
Jackie Mac neglected to mention that Rice was with the Raiders during the Tuck Rule game, and has said that the game was "taken" from Oakland.
 
He was also on a team that cheated the salary cap during its dynasty.
 

RetractableRoof

tolerates intolerance
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2003
3,836
Quincy, MA
jasail said:
That seems like a reasonable response.
Hey guys,

I can't be bothered to read any of the 45 pages here (containing hyperbole, math, supposition, quotes or context) or any of the crap elsewhere - my time is just too valuable. Can one of you basement dwellers with too much time on your hands write me up a summary of these points so I don't have to make an effort?

k thanks bye!!!
 

pappymojo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 28, 2010
6,667
Ed Hillel said:
 
He will do it because of the public perception that it needs to be done, which is derived partially from the way he's handled the whole affair.
 
 
Isn't this just standard issue for Goodell at this point?
 

( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)

T&A
SoSH Member
Feb 9, 2010
5,302
Providence, RI
DrewDawg said:
I still need someone to explain how and when the Pats deflated the balls on the sideline DURING the game. Presumably this was being done by a ballboy who also had to keep ferrying in dry footballs to the officials and was 100% cognizant of thousands of cameras around him.
 
 
You need to go read that yahoo article that was posted maybe 5-10 pages back.  It's from a former equipment manager for a major college football program that said he would routinely deflate balls on the sideline during the game and that is was incredibly easy to do so without anyone seeing.  I'm not saying the Pats did this, but it seems incredibly easy to do.  Especially when the Patriots balls are not being used, like when they are playing defense.  
 
Question, when they show the QBs on the sideline playing catch before a series does anyone know if that is one of the official game balls or just another ball that they have laying around?
 

Reverend

for king and country
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2007
64,027
jasail said:
 
That seems like a reasonable response. 
 
I speak fluent Rip, allow me to translate:
 
Asking people to rehash a 47 page thread that is already redundant as hell because you can't be inconvenienced to read the discussion is a bit self-involved, don't you think?
 
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,096
Ed Hillel said:
 
He will do it because of the public perception that it needs to be done, which is derived partially from the way he's handled the whole affair.
 
What public perception?  Again, most fans don't care that much about this.  How should he have handled the affair better?  Ignored it altogether?  Cleared the Pats already?  
 

Shelterdog

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Feb 19, 2002
15,375
New York City
lexrageorge said:
Payton got busted for non-cooperation on an investigation into a player safety issue.  Deflated balls is not that big of a deal unless you want to make it one.  
 
I don't want to make this an issue.  I think this is nonsense on stilts.  I think ball pressure is way, way down the list of rule pushing issues that can affect competitive balance in games or player safety, and certainly well behind 3 minute concussion checks, the loose way holding is called in the playoffs, the massive use of painkillers on players, the massive use of steroids and other PEDs by players--how many Seahawks have been nailed for drugs at this point?
 
But this doesn't have anything to do with fairness.  It has to do with (1) quashing a perception that a particular team wins by cheating (a perception that got out of control because Goodell punished them so fucking harshly the first time) and (2) quashing the more recent perception that Goodell is a softy who favors his friends and doesn't actually investigate anything (caused by Goodell being a softy who favored his friends and did jack shit to investigate Rice).  And one way to win those 2 PR battles is to smack the Pats.  I think that will be wrong but I think that's what he'll do.
 

staz

Intangible
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 2, 2004
20,659
The cradle of the game.
The fact that a ball boy(s) hasn't gone public tells me he has been identified, contacted, and given a gag order by the NFL. The interview should be a quick process ("this is what happened"), as will referencing the rule book re: legality/illegally. More difficult will be how the NFL administers penalty, in any, in the context of its largest celebration of the year and the Ray Rice debacle.

In an effort to reestablish his 'authority' I expect minimal guilt is met with the maximum penalty Goodell can negotiate with Kraft.
 

jasail

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
1,189
Boston
That's a fair point Rev. But maybe if the known facts were clearly stated and copied throughout the thread, you wouldn't have a 46 page clusterfuck of repetition, hyperbole and speculation. But by all means you folks should carry on with this thread and I will look elsewhere for consolidated analysis.
 
Thanks and goodnight. 
 

mascho

Kane is Able
SoSH Member
Nov 30, 2007
14,952
Silver Spring, Maryland
( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) said:
 
 
You need to go read that yahoo article that was posted maybe 5-10 pages back.  It's from a former equipment manager for a major college football program that said he would routinely deflate balls on the sideline during the game and that is was incredibly easy to do so without anyone seeing.  I'm not saying the Pats did this, but it seems incredibly easy to do.  Especially when the Patriots balls are not being used, like when they are playing defense.  
 
Question, when they show the QBs on the sideline playing catch before a series does anyone know if that is one of the official game balls or just another ball that they have laying around?
Those are game balls. Usually they are figuring out which balls they want in the rotation.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

Found no thrill on Blueberry Hill
SoSH Member
Sep 9, 2008
42,278
AZ
staz said:
The fact that a ball boy(s) hasn't gone public tells me he has been identified, contacted, and given a gag order by the NFL. The interview should be a quick process ("this is what happened"), as will referencing the rule book re: legality/illegally. More difficult will be how the NFL administers penalty, in any, in the context of its largest celebration of the year and the Ray Rice debacle.

In an effort to reestablish his 'authority' I expect minimal guilt is met with the maximum penalty Goodell can negotiate with Kraft.
 
But who ordered the code red?
 

Byrdbrain

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
8,588
To those of you that keep asking if the balls were weighed to check them that isn't what happens.
As has been discussed in intricate detail the issue at hand is pressure which in this case is expressed in pounds per square inch. This is sometimes shortened to pounds so saying the ball was 2 pounds below spec means it is 2 psi below spec.
The method of measurement is using a pressure gauge similar to what you would use on your tires it isn't weighing the balls.
 
I know many or most of you know this but I do keep seeing people asking about weighing the balls.
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
SoSH Member
Dec 16, 2010
53,841
( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) said:
 
 
You need to go read that yahoo article that was posted maybe 5-10 pages back.  It's from a former equipment manager for a major college football program that said he would routinely deflate balls on the sideline during the game and that is was incredibly easy to do so without anyone seeing.
 
And get all 11 that close to each other? Not buying it.
 
While also doing all the other duties he has to do, which is likely a bit more than a non bad weather game?
 

OnWisc

Microcosmic
SoSH Member
Apr 16, 2006
6,844
Chicago, IL
Hey guys,

I can't be bothered to read any of the 45 pages here (containing hyperbole, math, supposition, quotes or context) or any of the crap elsewhere - my time is just too valuable. Can one of you basement dwellers with too much time on your hands write me up a summary of these points so I don't have to make an effort?

k thanks bye!!!
Balls were allegedly checked by refs 2 hours before the game and again 5 minutes before the game and found compliant. Later they were checked again and found to no longer be compliant.

NFL slow to act as Goodell's assistants are having trouble explaining the concept of PSI to him. He had been under the impression that NFL balls were solid leather all the way through.

What nobody has brought up is whether or not the Colts balls were also examined.
 

Shelterdog

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Feb 19, 2002
15,375
New York City
lexrageorge said:
What public perception?  Again, most fans don't care that much about this.  How should he have handled the affair better?  Ignored it altogether?  Cleared the Pats already?  
 
When multiple nightly news  program have lead stories about one of your superbowl teams being under investigation for cheating you have a massive PR problem.
 

Marciano490

Urological Expert
SoSH Member
Nov 4, 2007
62,312
staz said:
The fact that a ball boy(s) hasn't gone public tells me he has been identified, contacted, and given a gag order by the NFL. The interview should be a quick process ("this is what happened"), as will referencing the rule book re: legality/illegally. More difficult will be how the NFL administers penalty, in any, in the context of its largest celebration of the year and the Ray Rice debacle.

In an effort to reestablish his 'authority' I expect minimal guilt is met with the maximum penalty Goodell can negotiate with Kraft.
 
Gag order, based on what?  You think ball boys' contracts contain clauses saying they can't speak to the press without league authorization regarding anything that happens in game?
 

johnmd20

mad dog
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2003
61,996
New York City
jasail said:
That's a fair point Rev. But maybe if the known facts were clearly stated and copied throughout the thread, you wouldn't have a 46 page clusterfuck of repetition, hyperbole and speculation. But by all means you folks should carry on with this thread and I will look elsewhere for consolidated analysis.
 
Thanks and goodnight. 
 
So you were told your request was self involved and your response to be more self involved? I don't understand.
 

Reverend

for king and country
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2007
64,027
Mark Schofield said:
Jackie Mac neglected to mention that Rice was with the Raiders during the Tuck Rule game, and has said that the game was "taken" from Oakland.
 
 

WayBackVazquez

white knight against high school nookie
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2006
8,294
Los Angeles
Marciano490 said:
Gag order, based on what?  You think ball boys' contracts contain clauses saying they can't speak to the press without league authorization regarding anything that happens in game?
I would be shocked if ball boys did not have to sign a confidentiality agreement.
 

dcdrew10

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
1,397
Washington, DC via Worcester
wilked said:
For those thinking a ball boy could possibly deflate 11 balls with a handheld needle, such that the resulting pressures were all within 1 psi of each other...  pass me some of whatever you are smoking.  If you truly believe the league-employed ball boys did this by hand, the resulting pressures would have been all over the place.  No way to do it repeatedly without a pressure gauge, and no way to do it with a pressure gauge on the sidelines without being caught.
 
If the Patriots broke the rules, it was done before the game and done systematically.  Maybe it doesn't explain the 11 of 12 thing, but to me that is a minor point
 
One thing that has been bothering me is why, if the Patriots "systematically" cheated did they deflate 11 or the 12 balls? Why not all 12? Why skip one ball? There is no way that the single ball would give the Pats any sort of deniability.
 

RetractableRoof

tolerates intolerance
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2003
3,836
Quincy, MA
OnWisc said:
Balls were allegedly checked by refs 2 hours before the game and again 5 minutes before the game and found compliant. Later they were checked again and found to no longer be compliant.NFL slow to act as Goodell's assistants are having trouble explaining the concept of PSI to him. He had been under the impression that NFL balls were solid leather all the way through.What nobody has brought up is whether or not the Colts balls were also examined.
Thank you for your genuine answer to a snarky post to illustrate how self absorbed someone was being. Next time I will be more careful to mark the post with a sarcasm tag.